DESPERATE FOR HELP!!!!!!

[mommd]

OMG, I'm SOOOO UPSET!!!!!!! My Mother's roomate's daughter has a baby who is a week younger than mine. He is 29 pounds. She feeds him 2 jars of baby food a day, two 12 ounce bottles of formula, and one 8 ounce bottle of formula mixed with cereal. She has been doing this for 2 months.

She came here today. He is strapped into an infant carrier, without the base, forward facing behind the passenger seat, NOT STRAPPED INTO THE CAR WITH A SEATBELT!!!!!

He can barely BREATHE he's so overweight.

I am SHAKING I'm so upset and angry.

Where do I start with this person? I just want to grab this child away from her. What would you do??????

[jk3]

29 pounds at only a few months. Did I read that correctly? I hope he was 20 pounds at birth. Seriously though that sounds like neglect. She may not know that she is mistreating her baby. The food deal is harmful but the carseat is beyond dangerous. I take it you are not close with her but if your mother is friends with her mom perhaps she can say something to her. It's really hard to tackle these types of situations but you might be able to help the baby.

Jenn
DS 6/3/03

[StaceyKim]

Yikes 29 lbs at a few months??!! That is insane. I wouldn't know what to say. Is person a friend? What does your mom say about this?

[mommd]

29 pounds, you read right! She is not a friend, this is only the second time I've met her. My Mom thinks she is just that stupid and doesn't know any better. I don't think anyone can really be that stupid. I'm thinking of calling and reporting neglect. Would you?

[StaceyKim]

Where the heck is her DH or pediatrician?? Yikes....I would assume they would be worried too. I don't know if I would get involved but it is quite scary for this defenseless baby!

[bluej]

Are you sure about what she's feeding him? I wouldn't report anything based on his weight if you really don't know how he is fed. Caden was exclusively breastfed for seven months and at four months he weighed 22 pounds (9 lb, 8 oz at birth). No, he didn't eat constantly (just incredibly rich breastmilk I guess?). Anyway, my ped had no concerns at all. I would have been pissed to say the least if social services showed up at my door b/c I had a 'fat' baby and somebody turned me in assuming I was over feeding him.

Now the carseat issue, that is something I would definitely take action on.

[Rachels]

I would call child protective services. I don't think weight is a good basis for neglect as babies come in all sizes, but inappropriate feeding and blatant safety issues are. This sounds like a mom who needs some education and backup. You can make an anonymous call.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/2/character39.gif

"We have a secret in our culture...it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong!!" - Laura Stavoe Harm

[mommd]

I'm sure at what she's feeding him, I asked. Sometimes she gives him more, I was just saying the average. If you saw the baby, you would understand. He's not overweight, he's not big for his age. His leg is the same size as the top of my arm. He looks REALLY unhealthy. He can barely move. When he wakes during the night she gives him baby food. She hasn't taken him to the doctor since he was 2 months old, because her boyfriends family said she didn't have to.

The feeding issue isn't was has me so upset, it's the carseat. I think I am going to go buy her one, even though I can't really afford to. I can't in good faith let her drive back home with the baby unrestrained.

[candybomiller]

Huh. I'm speechless.

I would definitely do one of two things. Talk to her about the carseat issue. Find out if she knows she's completely doing it wrong and jeopardizing her baby's life. Or, call the cops. Give them her license plate number and tell them that her baby isn't strapped in properly. They can do something about it. Either way, something needs to be done to protect that baby.

As far as the feeding thing goes... I don't really know what to advise. My first thought as I was reading this was that the baby was going to end up on one of those trashy Montel shows about obese babies. I don't know if it's your place to say anything about this. What she chooses to feed her baby is her business. Sorry.

HTH.

[pritchettzoo]

Call DFACS or whatever the child and family agency is in your area. They usually have to investigate all claims, and the best scenario is that the mother is genuinely ignorant that she's endangering her child. The social workers can educate her as to car seat usage (which can get you a big-a$$ ticket here, and a child endangerment arrest in some places) and feeding issues if need be (food at less than 2 mos???!!!). Your report will be anonymous.

Let us know how it turns out!

Anna

[Tondi G]

Call child services! Let them deal with it! Tell themeverythign you have told us... especially the part about not taking the child to the pediatrician.... the child doesn't sounds healthy and not being restrained in a proper car seat is DANGEROUS! She is breaking the law and her childs life is at stake.... call them. You would feel terrible if you didn't at least attempt to help this child out and found out his mommy had a car accident and he died cause she was negligent!!!!

Good Luck... it's a tough thing to do but I would make the call!

~Tondi and Mason 7/8/01

[Jen in Chicago]

Is your Mother concerned? Is her roommate concerned? Don't burn bridges you mother needs to cross daily right away...

An infant seat without a base is OK if strapped in, but it sounds like he has exceeded the weight for what she is using. Maybe you could offer to go car seat shopping with her, and get it properly installed. In the meantime you would be happy to show her how to safely secure what she has since you noticed he was illegally unstrapped in. Do you know someone with a used convertible seat you would trust to give/loan her? Maybe it just "fell" into you hands, and you know she would use it.

I would try to filter information for your Mom out of respect of her relationship with the Grandmother.

My nephew was HUGE at that age, and he was bf'd. Dr was not concerned.

Regarding his size...The key may to get her to take the baby to a Dr, well baby visits are needed the first year of life. Especially for immunizations.

Sounds like she (and the baby) need a concerned friend like you.
If you find that the issue is really money, maybe you can work with her to get her on some public assistance programs. If the issue is the fact she is uneducated regarding parenting, maybe there are some mother's groups the two of you could join.

They need you!

[mommd]

OK, I was about to call child protective services, but I calmed down. My Mom is very good friends with this babies grandmother, so I had to keep that in mind. Anyway, I talked to the Mother, and she thought that since he was over 20 pounds he could be forward facing. She also honestly thought it was OK that the carseat was not kept in with a seatbelt. So, I bought her a convertable seat and showed her how to use it. She doesn't like it because now she doesn't have a carrier. Sigh.

I also told her to get that baby to a doctor. I told her what my Pedi told me about waiting with solids and amount of liquid a day. Someone said that what she feeds her baby isn't my business, and in some ways you're right. So I just told her she needs to talk to a doctor about it.

I also signed her up for some parenting classes. She is completly clueless about so many things, she needs help. I hope she goes, and I hope what I said to her makes a difference. Ugh.

[Marisa6826]

Renee-

Is she really young and just uninformed? I'm guessing that she probably doesn't have proper medical care for herself, if she's not taking the baby to a Ped on a regular basis.

Is there a free clinic she can take the child to?

You're a good person for stepping up to the plate on this.

Please keep us posted

-m

[JenCA]

Yes, yes, yes! I agree with Rachel...please, make an anonymous call to CPS. This mother is obviously uneducated (and is making choices based on the advice of other uneducated people) and is putting her child in harm's way. Both the mom and the baby really need help right now.

[babymama]

God bless you! You've done a very good thing and you've made a differnce for a baby that you barely know. Thank you for your generosity. You may have saved that baby's life - no exaggeration!
Mama to Santiago, born 11/16/03

[StaceyKim]

Good for you for speaking up and helping this clueless mom!

From PP, maybe the weight isn't the huge issue but how she is feeding him. I thought cereal in the bottle was a no-no. Anyway, I was more concerned about the carseat anyway! What are people thinking??? I couldn't even leave my hospital until they looked at my carseat to make sure it was properly installed.

[Jeanmick]

I'm oh SO glad you didn't call CPS on this one w/o additional information. In reading your e-mail, I got the initial feeling that this was not a true case of abuse or neglect. It appears to be, in my opinion, a mom who really doesn't have the knowledge that other moms have. Something that may be considered commmon sense to one parent, may not necessarily be so to another. I also thought the same as you about your mom and how her relationship would be (not that it would really have any impact if this was a true case of child abuse). I'm glad you steered her in the right direction about getting to a pediatrician and talking to her about the car seat.

I work in a field dealing with children. As a result, I'm put in a position (more than other lines of work) to call CPS if there's any indicator of child abuse/neglect. I'm not afraid to make that call; however, I am also aware of the significant ramifications that this can have on a family if a call like this is made. Especially if the call is unsubstatiated.

As parents we're not given an instructional handbook on how to raise children, and that's why we come to boards like these for advice. That's why I'm glad you approached the parent in this case and offered your support. Now it's up to her to heed your advice.

Just my observation on things. I just felt the need to share it.

[JacksMommy]

I'm certainly not one to defend CPS (Child Protective Services) since I know some of the crazy stuff that goes on, but as a mandated reporter, I try not to think of calling CPS as some sort of punishment for bad parents. MOST parents who neglect or even abuse their children are uneducated and unaware of the effects on their kids and need to be given education and support. For example, you'd be suprised at how many people think that smacking a baby is an appropriate way to make them stop crying. While that's horrifying, I try to keep in mind that almost all parents (even the truly disturbed ones) truly want to be good parents. CPS (or whatever it's called in your county) is the proper authority to turn to if personal intervention is inappropriate or doesn't work. It sounds like this mother was very receptive to you interventions, which is great, but she definitely needs ongoing support. Hopefully she will follow up with parenting classes and her doctor and they can make any reports in the future, should that be necessary.

Good luck! You sound like a very caring person. Let us know what happens!

Laurel
Working Mama to Jack, 6/4/02
EDD #2 12/25/02

[Gayletmomto4]

Here's another thought if you think she is caring and will try to do the right thing. Do you think she would listen to a book on tape or watch a video? Also, what about printing off some of the carseat safety flyers from carseatsafety.org or one of those for her? Your state dept of health might have some info also. After I left the hospital with each of my babies I got monthly mailings on vaccinations, feedings, etc. that were developmentally appropriate (and I live in Louisiana-not exactly forward thinking on most things).

If you think she is interested in learning/improving you can try the "catch more flies with honey" approach. "Isn't being a parent challenging? There's so much to remember. I came across this article/book/flyer and it had some info I wasn't aware of, I thought you might like it, too."

I think trying to support her in being a good parent is the right first step. You are doing such a good thing to get involved.

[miki]

There is also a campaign nationally for each state to have a First Five program to give parents information about their child's first five years of life. When I toured the hospital I delivered in, they gave us California's package that came with pamphlets and a bunch of videos, all info about how to take care of your baby. That's something she could probably have for free. And I remember reading that there are typically extra support services for low income families, if that is her situation.

[workaholic]

Is it possible that you could suggest to her what she could do different? If it were me, I'd have lost it with the car seat. Your other option is to report it to Family Services, that's a whole other ball game and may not be necessary. I'd assume that some people make mistakes like these because they simply don't know any better. You have to remember that anything you say or do is for the benefit of this child. I taught 1st grade and saw neglect in children daily. It's amazing that some of them make it to adulthood. Maybe you should calmly have a discussion about the childs diet and why it's not beneficial for him. Some people think that children only cry because they are hungry. They aren't educated enough to know they need other stimulation besides food. Does it really matter what the mom thinks of you as long as you know you tried to help. Hey, she might even appreciate it. Good Luck and let us know if anything comes of your concern.

Aimee Larsen
Momma to Cooper
Crossing fingers for another...
Owner: Ella-Bags

[workaholic]

WAY TO GO!!!

I'm so proud to hear that you stepped up to the plate. There was a reason that you were put in the position you were in. It did sound as though she was clueless. It's amazing to most of us I'm sure but to some people it's a fact of life.

I feel like sending you a donation for the carseat. That was soooo generous. Keep it up, I'm sure you handled the situation perfectly.

Aimee Larsen
Momma to Cooper
Crossing fingers for another...
Owner: Ella-Bags

[american_mama]

Renee:

You did so many great things, I hope you hear or see of some improvement through your mom. Just wanted to offer a couple more thoughts... you could invite this woman to come with you to a playgroup or mom's group that you attend, or you could invite her to come with you to a pediatrician's appt. with your child. I know you probably don't want to, but it would be just one time... I doubt the pediatrician would give any advice to her b/c her child is not his patient, but it might get her moving in the direction of a doctor herself. You could find out the schedule for immunization clinics and/or well-baby clinics through your local health department (look under city or county in the phone book, usually in the blue pages) and give it to her. The pediatric department of public hospitals will also usually have well baby clinics on a regular schedule.

In terms of suggestions for comforting the child with something other than food, I would suggest all the things you do that work for your daughter, plus anything else that you think the mom would respond to. Does she love music or dancing or singing? Suggest she play music for baby, use a musical toy or mobile, dance with baby, sing or hum to baby. Is she a couch potato? Suggest rocking chairs, recliners, even holding baby next to your heartbeat while vegging in front of the TV. Does the baby take a pacifier? Suggest using that in the night. Heck, even a bottle of water ( I stress WATER - sounds like this mom might easily resort to juice or formula) in the night would be better than more formula. For tough crying,there are all those white noise tricks: fans, running water, hair dryers, vaccuum cleaners that she could try rather than feeding a baby. Not all of these things are my first choice, but I am just trying to offer suggestions for soothing babies that may work with different personalities.

Also, you might mention to the mom that fat cells made by children before the age of 2 tend to stay with them their whole life, thus making it much harder for them to have a healthy weight as older children and adults. I will try to find a website for you about that. In the meantime, here is a fact sheet about childhood and infant obesity that you mgiht give her, or refer to: http://www.hmc.psu.edu/childrens/healthinfo/o/obesity.htm
And a longer website about infant obsetity that I didn't get to read thoroughly: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T043700.asp

ALso, I would sypmathize with her about losing the convenience of the infant seat (I hated losing it too), but remind her that her baby is just not safe in anything but the convertible seat. And remind her that the baby still has to be rear-facing in the convertible UNTIL the baby is over 20 pounds AND over 1 year old. Many people get that point wrong.

Here's a really simple chart describing how to use car seats at all ages: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/CPS/
Also, here is a good website with clear photos of correct and incorrect usage for rear-facing convertible seats:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/CPS/UsingItRight2002/rear_convertible.htm
The more general link showing correct usage for all kinds of car seats is http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/CPS/UsingItRight2002/index.htm

And you might mention to your mom and/or the grandma about current standards with car seats, so they too can get on board and check on baby. You might also remind them about the fine if the car seat isn't being used properly; I tried to find a website listing the amounts of fines, but only found something that suggested Pennsylvania had a fine of $89. At least that gives you one example.

Good luck. If the family is overweight themselves, it's going to be hard to encourage them to do the right thing about baby's eating, but I think you can probably make a big difference in that mom's car seat usage.

[flagger]

I am so glad you did not call CPS. This could have been a mark on her "record" just because of the "suspicion" of abuse.

As many here have stated, it is nearly impossibly to overfeed an infant. I know my godson was on rice cereal at two weeks old because quite frankly he was hungry.

It seems she was receptive to the new car seat and the education as well. However, as an aside I know quite a few parents who turned their babies around before the one year mark. They did have the seat belted into the car though. But turning them around before a year does not make them a bad parent.

[farsk]

Renee,

I worked for child protective services for a year, so I think my take may be a little different.

This mother is obviously in need of support, and, having a little one myself, I know that I could not provide the kind of support and supervision that this mother so obviously needs.

I get the following from your post:
1. The baby is not receiving adequate medical care (as evidenced by the inappropriate feeding, difficulty breathing, lack of carseat information)
2. The mother has not taken the iniative to educate herself on the safe ways to care for her child
3. She is putting the baby in danger (unresponsible carseat usage, etc,.)

Although you have addressed the carseat issue, this mother needs more support. If it were me, I would call CPS (this is not a punishment for the parent, simply a way for her to get the support and supervision she obviously needs). You can remain anonymous (sp?). Even if you gave your name, it would take a court order for the informant's identity to be revealed (happens as often as pigs fly).

If neglect is unsubstantiated, no harm, no foul. These are not criminal proceedings. It will not go on any "record" as CPS files are different from police files.

If neglect is substantiated, it still does not mean that police will be involved or that criminal charges will be pursued. It could simply mean that she is required to take her baby to the doctor regularly, take parenting classes regularly, and is visited by a case worker regularly.

Please re-consider about calling CPS. You don't want the responsibility of caring for her child vicariously.

This is a hard one, I know!

Good Luck!

[american_mama]

I think it is possible to overfeed an infant, and definitely possible to feed an infant the wrong foods for their age, which is what sounds like is happening here. Have you ever gotten a baby to finish a bottle after they stopped drinking? I know I have. You *can* push babies to eat more, and if you do that every day, with certain foods and certain babies, I think it's obvious obesity can result.

The two links I provided give a lot of info. on the reality of infant obesity. I'm not saying this child is destined to be fat forever, but he does sound like an overfed and obese infant, and that's not a good beginning.

And as for turning the car seats around before age 1, no, that does not make you a bad parent, but it's proven in crash tests that it's safer for a baby to be rear-facing. A parent needs to know that. The mother we are talking about here appears not to know anything about car seats, so I think clear information and "how to's" are obviously needed.

[calebsmama03]

Laurel and SHannon - ITA about CPS. It's not necessarily a "punishment". I work w/ disabled adults (MR/DD) and one of my clients has kids. She had CPS called on her and is getting lots of support, parenting classes and a mentor out of it. As for you calling, I think it's a personal decision. Another thought is that doctors are mandated reporters so *IF* you get her to take him to the Dr. and there is truly an issue, the doctor is supposed to report.

Renee - good for you for taking notice and helping this woman and her baby!! Not many people would have done anything. Good job mama!
Lynne
Mommy to Caleb 3/3/03

[JMS]

I really think you should call CPS... not to say "better to be safe than sorry", but the wellfare of a child is at issue. I don't think neglect and/or abuse have to be purposeful to be real, nor do I think that they have to occur knowingly (by the mother).

You are only aware of the carseat issue and the feeding issue because that is what you saw firsthand. Please think about all the other possible harms that may be happening to this poor child that you are unaware of. They may be as, or even more, serious than the carseat/feeding issues (i.e., shaking when crying).

This really upsets me to my core.

[flagger]

If someone calls CPS on this woman, I hope she refuses them entry. Some people in this case needs to MTODB.

[flagger]

We can agree to disagree. My child does not and never did take a bottle to finish after stopping drinking. If a child is hungry, you feed it pure and simple. A child of this age cannot be fed more than it wants. The only way we have percentage is some kids are at the bottom end and some are at the top end.

[pritchettzoo]

Yes, it is possible. Many cultures do this intentionally (ones that place great weight on "fat babies"--Greece is but one example). There was a recent article (February 2002 or 2003?) in Pediatrics about obese infants, but I could not access the article directly. This is the best summary I could find:

Q:
I've heard about fat babies turning into fat kids and adults, should I put my child on a diet?

A:
It appears that the rolls of baby fat that we think of as cute and cuddly may be harbingers of obesity. A new study published in the February issue of Pediatrics of nearly 20 thousand infants found that those who gained weight too rapidly during the first four months of life were overweight later in childhood.
While the long-term implications are not known, we do know that being obese as a child increases one's risk of adulthood obesity. And, as you've probably heard, this dramatically increases one's risk of developing significant health problems later in life such as diabetes, hypertension and heart disease.

Now, the study points out the difference between breastfed and formula fed infants, stating that the breastfed infants tended to have normal weights. The study authors do not speculate as to why this difference occurs and state that further studies should be conducted.

But, pediatricians have long known that breastfeeding is best for babies due to increased immunological protection conferred by breastmilk. As far as feeding goes, breastfed infants tend to feed only until satisfied.

Many parents who formula feed by bottle, become fixed on specific amounts of formula to be given at each meal and will often overfeed infants to ensure adequate nutrition. I treat infants and children from many different cultures in my practice. And I have found that many societies teach that a child is not healthy unless they are chubby.

Both of these thought patterns lead to overfeeding. Which then leads to eating patterns in children and adults that can be unhealthy. For instance, not moving away from the table until one's belly is uncomfortably full.

So, the physical sensation of fullness is what's needed for some who overate as children to tell them that they can stop eating.

The study authors also speculate that, the satiety regulator in the brain may get set to an unnaturally high position such that its "stop eating signal" is sent later than it normally would.

So, should you put your chubby toddler on a diet? Well, not yet. Talk to your pediatrician to look at your child's growth curve. You'll want to talk about healthy eating practices including the proper amounts and types of food needed for adequate nutrition. Your baby should be allowed to feed until satisfied.

And, I recommend getting your child used to exercise at a young age. This way you set up healthy practices from the start.


http://health.discovery.com/expert/qa/kids/overweightinfants.html

Anna

[munchkinsmum]

My goodness...

I don't post very much, but I lurk quite a bit on this board. I have found wonderful information from all of you and I thank you for giving me great advice; however, I have been following this post with great interest, and all I have to say is that there are people who need to re-read this post:

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=37&topic_id=91560&mesg_id=91560&listing_type=search

That's all I have to say on this subject. Thank you.

[pritchettzoo]

I don't see how being concerned about a baby's health and safety is judgmental. Neither the original poster nor any of the respondents were making fun of the mother. Having an infant in an unsecured carseat isn't a parenting choice in this country--it's against the LAW. Even the least restrictive laws require a properly restrained car seats for children up to 40 pounds (some states have age restrictions, but that's the general lowest pound limit).

The original poster was genuinely concerned about the child's well-being and whether the mother's actions crossed a line into child maltreatment. I (and several other posters, including a former child welfare worker) urged her to place that decision in the hands of a social services agency trained to make that call for her. Reporting suspected child abuse isn't being judgmental--it could save the life of an innocent baby.

Anna

[kijip]

While I agree that turning a baby around before a year in a carseat does not make someone a bad parent who should be reported to CPS and I generally agree with your post, turning them around in an infant seat, belted in or not at any point, is just plain unexcusable. Seats come with little books with instructions, as we all know. And there is no infant carrier type seat on the market that is designed to face the front. Thus even with a belt, it is not safe. If a baby is turned around before one year, in most states the parents are breaking the law. But if they are turning the baby around before a year it certainly needs to be a seat that can be secured forward facing like a convertible or a forward only tot seat. I would like to see parents ticketed bad car seat use. Cars are very unsafe without the extra precaution of safety seats and risking our children's lives should not be considered a different parenting choice.

As for the food, this case sounds extreme but many countries (including ours until 25 years apo) push solids very early. In China, babies are fed rice mush from practically birth as I understand it. And 12 ounce bottles are common in orphanages. That said, this mother clearly could use some education and access to healthcare.

[tippy]

I watched (in dismay I might add!) my SIL's SIL hold a bottle forcefully in her babies mouth and squeeze her cheaks so she literaly had to swallow the formula being forcefed to her or choke. I do think it is possible to overfeed a child. Especially, if a child is crying because it just needs to let off some steam, wants to be held or is tired and a parent who may not know any better automatically shoves a bottle in their mouth. That child may suck just to soothe itself. So, yea we can agree to disagree but sometimes you have to take facts into consideration too. :-)

[tippy]

Well said! I agree totally. What happened to "it takes a village"? I truly believe that when somebody suspects possible neglect, intentional or not they have a responsibility to take action. How would any of us feel if this poster did nothing and found out from her mother that the baby died in a car accident. I'm not saying to call Child protective services off the bat but if you try and talk to the mother and she is not receptive, gets defensive or doesn't take any action than I feel it is warranted. I remember a case of two young parents who were vegetarians feeding their daughter "home made" formula. They had never taken her to the doctor. She ended up severely malnourished, had rickets and her teeth were rotting. They were prosecuted for neglect. They loved their daughter and were truly trying to do what they thought was best but sometimes someones best isn't good enough. Just that fact that this child hasn't been to the doctor since it was two months old makes me worried. Is their one of you out their who hasn't brought your child to the doctor for well visits since it was two months old??? It amazes me that there are people who are "pro-life" that will intefere with a woman's choice in having a child but their are also people out there that once that child is born would sit back and do nothing if that child might be suffering from neglect because it "is none of their business". Ok. I better stop now as that is a whole nother can of worms. This just really gets me down to the bone!

[mommd]

You really think I'm being judgemental about her not belting her baby into the car?! It's not like I'm talking about a debated issue like bumpers in the crib. This is obviously dangerous. Would you ignore a person beating their child to avoid being "judgemental"? I hope not.

If you read the update on what I did, you would see that I did not think it was my business to talk to her about the weight of her child and left that to a doctor. But how could you let that baby be driven around not belted in? This wasn't an issue of simply being forward facing, which while dangerous, would not have made me think about calling CPS.

You obviously have a right to your opinion, but I can't believe that being concerned over a baby not belted in makes me too judgemental, sorry.

[mommd]

I already said I wasn't going to do that. After talking to her, I can see it is not neglect and just a lack of education. I don't think I should have minded my own business about not being belted in. If he was just forward facing in a convertable seat, that wouldn't be as unsafe as not being belted in.

I did decide it wasn't my business to talk to her about what he ate or how much he weighed, and suggested he be taken for a well baby checkup. But I would not have been able to live with myself if he had been killed in a car accident.

[tippy]

You have NOTHING to be sorry for, really! I wouldn't worry about pp if I were you. It sounds like they are the ones being judgmental of you! As for ...
{{{{If you read the update on what I did, you would see that I did not think it was my business to talk to her about the weight of her child and left that to a doctor.}}}}}

You also said....
{{{{She hasn't taken him to the doctor since he was 2 months old, because her boyfriends family said she didn't have to.}}}}

So I'm really not so sure I wouldn't say anything about the babies eating/weight,(reading me, not you)

I commend you on going with your gut, maternal instincts, conscience, sense of duty or whatever it was that made you take an action in this case. There are obviously plenty of people for one reason or another who would sit back and do nothing. This child can not speak for itself, can not defend itself, and can not protect itself. Neglect comes in all forms and doesn't have to be intentional to be harmful to a child. There have been some great resources posted in this thread. I hope you can find a way to help this woman. Please keep us posted!

[flagger]

That "it takes a village" is a bunch of liberal crap from Hillary Clinton based on a title of her book. Some of us believes it takes a family and not a "village". This is moot because it looks like the woman is receptive to her friend "butting" in.

[JenCA]

You did the right thing in this situation! Please do not apologize! There is absolutely NO excuse for placing an infant carrier (without the base, I might add) forward facing in the backseat and not strapped in with the seatbelt except misinformation and lack of education. You observed this situation (which, IMO, is CLEARLY dangerous and not remotely debatable) and did your best to rectify it for the safety of the child. This has not a thing to do with being judgemental; rather, it has everything to do with caring about the well being of a helpless infant. Kudos to you.

[stella]

I think you did exactly the right (and generous - purchasing a carseat!) thing!

[Marisa6826]

Oh Flagger, be nice! ;)

-m

[Rachels]

ITA about CPS as well. When I worked in community mental health, I worked with lots of CPS-involved families, very few of which had actual custody removed. It's a terribly flawed system, but I did see it provide some pretty substantial education and support to families with no other way to get it.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/2/character39.gif

"We have a secret in our culture...it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong!!" - Laura Stavoe Harm

[Rachels]

What Jen said! Way to go, mama.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/2/character39.gif

"We have a secret in our culture...it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong!!" - Laura Stavoe Harm

[tippy]

Ya know Flagger, I sometimes think you enjoy getting a rise out of people. I was just trying to make a point by saying it takes a village. I haven't even read the book! Apparently, this woman's boyfriends family is the one that told her she doesn't need to take her baby to the doctor and she hasn't since it was two months old. As far as insinuating that her "friend" is "butting" in, well what can I say....We can agree to disagree...but I think that is an insult to someone who is only trying to look out for the welfare of a child.

[tippy]

Hi Rachael,

I just pm'd you :)

[Rachels]

Brief thoughts on it taking a village:

I was raised by a village, I think. My family is close and pretty amazing, and my parents of course made the essential decisions about my upbringing. But they also blessed me with an extended community of family friends who loved me and cared about my welfare. I felt safe in many homes, loved by many people, and there was (and is) a ready supply of people OTHER than my parents who offer concern and counsel if I need it. I actually refer to them as my village, and I was and am incredibly lucky to have them. Creating the same for my daughter is a substantial priority for me.

I also had an experience while I was pregnant that was really moving in the village sense. I struggled with constant UTIs and then kidney stones, and when I was about seven months pregnant, I was just sooooo worn out. I was working at Harvard, which I dearly loved, but the mentality there is that you should work work work work and never let anything slow you down, period. I was supposed to begin a psychological testing battery with a student, a process which would take about thirty hours beyond my regular overfilled therapy caseload. I was just exhausted but didn't see any alternatives. Then one of our temporary staff for that year, who was a mother and had learned some things about community, suddenly saw how overwhelmed I was and without fanfare, she took on the testing case herself. It was certainly a burden for her. I couldn't quite believe it. When I began to simultaneously sort of argue and express my gratitude, she stopped me and said, "We are all responsible for this baby. This is what I can do to help get her here safely."

It was one of the more astonishing moments I've experienced. The idea that this woman, whom I didn't know that well and actually didn't even like all that much, would choose to take that on for the sake of a child who hadn't even been born yet was pretty powerful.

The fact that a politician once used that term doesn't make it a political issue. It's neither liberal nor conservative to think we should care about each other's children, and it CERTAINLY isn't crap.



-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/2/character39.gif

"We have a secret in our culture...it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong!!" - Laura Stavoe Harm

[C99]

How old is the mom? If she's young and you report her to DCFS, they might have her take some parenting classes. But they might not, either. My best friend is a former social worker, who when she left her job to have babies, continued to mentor some of the girls in the program. She had one girl who insisted on putting her infant tummy-down to sleep. My friend told her that it could result in crib death (SIDS). The mom was like, "OK" and ignored her completely. A few months later, the baby did, indeed, die of SIDS. It was sad. This girl was under the watch of "the authorities," so I guess what I am saying is that sometimes you cannot overcome willful ignorance and stupidity.

[C99]

This will get deleted, but I will say it anyway:

Don't worry about Flagger or his opinion of you; he's just being a jerk.

[mommd]

I really don't care about what people think of me. I did what I felt was right in this situation. If people think I'm nosy or judgemental or butting in, oh well. I feel good about the fact that I helped someone in need.

[flagger]

>This will get deleted, but I will say it anyway:
>
>Don't worry about Flagger or his opinion of you; he's just
>being a jerk.

I never gave my opinion on the initial poster for the record. Having a different opinion from others does not make me mean or a jerk.

For the record, I think CPS does some wonderful things in situations where there is true neglect and abuse. However, my dealings with them personally, through media accounts, and through third party observation finds many CPS workers to work outside due process and come in with this "Guilty until proven innocent" attitude. I am also hesitant to call any agency anonymously as I believe it takes away the accused's right to question the one making the accusation.

If the woman that the initial poster is talking about is receptive to help, there IMHO is no need to involve such an agency despite what other posters insist must still be done as far as still notifying them.

[C99]

>I never gave my opinion on the initial poster for the record.

You implied that she was being judgmental and told her to mind her own business. You may not have come outright and said that what you thought of the OP, but you made it clear enough.

>Having a different opinion from others does not make me mean
>or a jerk.

No, you're right: having a differing opinion doesn't mean you're a jerk. It's all in the delivery. And your delivery, quite frankly, stinks.

[Sarah1]

>she stopped me and said, "We are all responsible for this baby. This is what I can do to help get her here safely."

Wow. That's pretty powerful stuff!

And I agree--there's nothing political about it taking a village. I'm not a member of Hillary Clinton's fan club, but how can you argue with her here? The more support a child has, the better off she/he will be in the long run. That's a truism if I ever heard one!

And Renee, you did the right thing. Don't second guess yourself.

[Jeanmick]

>For the record, I think CPS does some wonderful things in
>situations where there is true neglect and abuse...I am also hesitant to call any agency
>anonymously as I believe it takes away the accused's right to
>question the one making the accusation.
>
>If the woman that the initial poster is stalking about is
>receptive to help, there IMHO is no need to involve such an
>agency despite what other posters insist must still be done as
>far as still notifying them.

I'll have to agree with you on the above points, Flagger.

It's been very interesting reading everyone's opinion on this situation. What's wonderful about this community of parents is that (for the most part) we're able to share our opinions and ideas. I hope this continues w/o any negativity or personal attacks against each other.

[Marisa6826]

Oh come on Flagger, stalking?

In the original post, the OP said that the Mother of the child in question came to the OP's house. That's hardly stalking.

There's no reason to get so nasty.

-m

[Jeanmick]

I've interpret it as a typo to mean "is talking" not "stalking."

[flagger]

Sorry, but of all people you should know by now that I don't sugarcoat my answers to be politically correct and appease all people. And please for Pete's sake do not put words into my mouth. My comments were directed at all the people who think calling CPS is the end all be all answer to this situation. I do think it goes a little bit overboard to question how someone else is feeding their child. My comments about MTODB were directed at that particular issue.

But tell me, how does calling me out as a JERK make your delivery any different from how you perceive mine? Please pray tell do enlighten me as I just might lose sleep over who I have offended. NOT

[stella]

when I first read it, I thought the same thing! I can't believe he would call her a STALKER! LOL!!!

[khakismom]

FYI, the "judgemental" post came from someone other than Flagger.