Do you think political threads belong on this Bulletin Board? [Archive] - Authors Denise & Alan Fields / Windsor Peak Press Book Forums

papal

09-03-2004, 01:30 AM

Nope, me too. And sadly, i lurk in some of those threads for some idiotic unknown reason just to know what is up... but i do think it is divisive.
When it comes to stuff like politics, religion etc, it is always best to be in a REAL room and talking to people.. it is so much easier to stay calm when you can see a persons facial expression or hear the tone in their voice when they express a view point.

Honestly, i think Beth had said this some time back, we discuss politics with family and with IRL friends, so i don't feel the need to do this here as well. I don't know.. this will all go away when the elections are over but still.. it does not sit well with me... and the part that really did not sit well was when one person told another to Stay Out or Butt Out or whatever... that was uncalled for. There are nice ways to say things. And this is not how you would treat someone if they stood right in front of you... give respect and get respect... don't demand respect.

Anyway, it was bothering me too. So I am glad i got it off my chest.

redhookmom

09-03-2004, 01:41 AM

IMO politics is a parenting issue. For example, "no child left behind." We as parents have to talk about these issues in order to do what is best for our children. The unfortunate part is that we get divided along political lines and don't bother to look at the individual issues.

But I have to admit I do not read the political threads as they get to heated for me.

khakismom

09-03-2004, 01:46 AM

I normally avoid posting, and sometimes even reading, the political threads, esp. when they get ugly. I enjoyed participating in the RNC thread up until the point where it got nasty and became a debate. I hope no one was offended by my post, but I just wanted to cover my ears and scream "STOP" because all the bickering back and forth just wears me down and makes me sad.

I like a good, healthy debate, but I'd rather do it IRL than see it here.

Edited because it's late and I need to go to bed. :)

s_gosney

09-03-2004, 01:50 AM

This is probably not going to make sense b/c I'm sleepy...
anyway, I voted other b/c I have really mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I hate the bickering, and I really hate that some people always feel a need to make a comment regardless of how it will make the person on the receiving end feel. I kind of live by the mantra of "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all" (except with dh, LOL), but others are more assertive with their opinions. I don't care to be around these people IRL, and I don't care to read these sort of comments here either. Opinions are so weird b/c some people bend over backwards trying to not offend someone that they barely squeak out their true opinions and then others bellow them out, but the thing is that both types of people can feel equally as strong about their views, just express them differently. But somehow, the more mild-mannered ones end up feeling badly.
On the other hand, I don't like the idea of a lot of rules governing this community either. It just feels juvenile to have off limit topics...
I do think though that if we would think about talking to each other the way we talk IRL, that would help some. There will always be those (not pointing any fingers here honest!) who just don't care what others think or feel. "By God, this is what I feel and I'm gonna say it" kind of thing, ya know? BUT, I do think that 90% of the time that offense occurs, the speaker knew that what they were saying would/could be offensive.
I know that it's been said also that people should just skip the threads they don't want to read, and that's what I typically do as I am truly disinterested in politics. But, I'm right there with Rashmi w/ the whole rubbernecking thing. For some reason, I've got to check them out when they seem to be getting heated. I never post though b/c I know myself well enough to know that I would get my feelings hurt if I joined in...plus debating is just not my style. I know I'm right...there's no need to discuss it. Just ask dh! ;)

kthomp

09-03-2004, 01:59 AM

Although I am relatively new here, I just wanted to share my thoughts.

This board is such a welcoming and open community. I don't see how political threads add to that sense of community, but I do see how they tear it down. They can make people who don't share the same beliefs feel isolated and picked on. I remember a thread a while ago about abortions (this is just an example). How do you think someone who had an abortion would feel when they read that? Not good I bet. Also, religion. It seems as if sometimes people tend to forget the fact that there are people of other religions than Christian out there- and many of them are here on the board.

We all came here because we are parents (or are expecting). That is what draws us together. Why focus on things that will tear that apart? Think about our little ones- are we setting a good example by stirring up controversies and bickering? We are all capable of doing such good things- giving advice, helping people out (think about all the money raised for Samuel and Jen), supporting each other on bad days, congratulating each other. The sense of community and belonging is so rare, we shouldn't do anything to try and jeopardize that for anyone here.

I am not saying this happens in every thread, but it happens too often. I stay out of such threads because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I think it would be a much nicer place if everyone thought about who their statements could hurt and the trouble that they might cause before posting them. Everyone is free to have their own opinions and beliefs, but maybe it would be best not to share them sometimes for the sake of the community.

lisams

09-03-2004, 02:55 AM

I voted I don't care, although the obvious is that it IS up to the Field's and we have no other choice than to respect their wishes or get the boot!! I sure hope they don't get flooded with emails about this because personally I'm sure they roll their eyes, they have better things to do with their time and we are so lucky to have this board that isn't FLOODED with ads and pop-ups. I'll take a little politics over that any day.

This is an awesome place, poitics or no politics.
Lisa

kijip

09-03-2004, 04:04 AM

Sorry so long:

I am not an uninvolved citizen. I daresay that I am far more involved in the politics than the average citizen. In addition to voting, I attend monthly party meetings, hold a committee position with my party that is won by being on the primary election ballot, donate as much money as I can squeeze out of my budget to canidates and PACs, and was a state convention delegate. Everyone who knows me in real life knows that I am a politically active person. I consume political news like crazy. In general, I don't think Americans are partisan enough. I don't want the leaders of my party to try and mimic the other party. I, unlike many people, would like to see more participation in partisan politics. And I agree with a previous poster that parenting is political- having Toby has made me more gung-ho becuase I worry more about the future. But I, in all my partisan ways dislike the partisan threads on BBB. This is why:

- It is too easy to insult people via postings or to feel insulted by postings- it is hard to tell the nuances of a person's message with a written statement. No facial expressions, body language etc. I have stared at a person and ripped their argument to shreds but because of my manner and demenor they knew that I was NOT attacking them, but rather their politics.

- I prefer to engage politically with those near to me AND not because those near to me are more likely to agree with me! I have friends who are far left (Socialists and in my parents case, Communists) and far right (Religious Fundamentalists). Most are like me and in the middle, part of either the Democratic party or the Republican party. But for me it is more satisfying to linger over dessert with a few couples and stare someone down as you present your case or to stand up at a convention and make a speech. For those who prefer the internet there are dedicated political sites- every party has some active blogs and boards.

- There are issues that you can never educate others on - you have to just disagree. And seeing angry rants condemning your views does not help you see the other side. No one here or elsewhere will change my mind about abortion for example. There seems to be a fair amount of "if you disagree with idea A which I support then you are a bad/crazy/stupid/misinformed/foolish person" going on in the political threads.

- It can get petty- I have to admit that I scanned the posts to see who was who. Is this poster an R or a D? And I am just petty enough that part of me remembers a person's colors when reading their other posts.

The convention posts are much like conventions themselves- those in attendance with opposite voices are liable to rightfully be lynched. At the Congressional and State Conventions I have been to (4 to date over the last 2 election cycles- I was a delegate at age 19 and a member of my party at 17) there is always someone wasting time trying to propose radical changes to the platform. Not changes that have even 10% support. More like changes with 5 supporters in a room of 1000. Bi-partisan is for the floor of Congress or state legislatures, not party events for the dyed in the wool variety political kooks like me. I say go join the other party. Or in the case of the boards- go join the opposite posts.

While I am not bothered to the point of not coming to the boards the politcal posts are of little interest to me and I feel a bit threatened when I see a post heading denouncing my views in the middle of congrats posts, questions about Tofu and cute kid activities. I come to this boards to focus on the fun and happy parts of parenting. For me, as much as I love politics, the political side of parenting is very hard- I worry about the future world I am creating for Toby about 23.5 hours per day. BBB is a great way to spend the rest of the time getting ideas, support in hard times and sharing joy. I will happily get in a politcal debate just about anywhere else but BBB.

deborah_r

09-03-2004, 04:35 AM

Katie - I very much enjoyed reading your perspective, thanks for sharing!

I voted NO, mainly because I believe, based on my own experience, that it brings out the worst in some people! I know one thread about a month ago did that for me, and I regretted my post for a long time, still do in fact. I don't regret my opinion in the matter, but rather the way I expressed it, which was very unlike me. There were much better ways in which I could have gotten my point across.

I also personally think that a great percentage of political discussion/debate is all for nothing, because most people have their minds made up already. I'm sure political scientists will disagree with me, but I think it is true when you consider the average person. Maybe if Dubya was giving away gold bars to anyone who would vote for him, I might consider it :) , but still probably not - my mind is made up, and it sure sounds like most people in these threads have there minds made up to, so I wonder what the point is.

I don't care if the threads continue, because I am no longer posting in them and only casually following them. Just my 2 cents...

new_mommy25

09-03-2004, 04:41 AM

I voted no. I have absolutly no interest in these threads and rarely read them. I think I've missed a lot of the bickering that way.

jamsmu

09-03-2004, 08:36 AM

Voted "yes" but I don't love them. I just think its important for parents who are surrounded all day with kids to have intelligent conversations and discussions. Sometimes you really need to say what you are thinking and have your feelings heard, and a 12 month old just isn't the audience you need. That being said, if it gets nasty, it disgusts me. We shouldn't need to be reminded to be mature adults. We need to set a good example for our children... even on our message boards.

cinrein

09-03-2004, 08:37 AM

Sadly, I voted no. I think we should be able to discuss politics nicely, but experience has shown me we can't. Even though I don't participate in the political threads, I sometimes read them and the nastiness is saddening. I love this community and hate to see the bickering.

Cindy and Anna February 2003

sugarsnappea

09-03-2004, 09:03 AM

I haven't voted yet, because I am on the fence. I do enjoy reading political discussions on this board. There are so many intelligent people on this board who have a myriad of viewpoints. I don't discuss politics with friends, so I look forward to hearing what you all have to say. But, I do HATE to wait 2 minutes to open a thread and see no great discussion, just nasty comments.
I too, come to the boards to relax. But, sometimes reading adult conversation about particular issues is relaxing, and interesting. Sometimes there are topics that I would never in a millions years research about myself, but I read and gain knowledge about them on this board. For example, I really enjoyed the spirituality discussions awhile back. I guess what I am trying to say is that I like seeing hot-topic debates discussed in a civil way. It makes me feel more informed, since it seems like I live in a cave sometimes! :)

MartiesMom2B

09-03-2004, 09:26 AM

I voted no. Even after the nastiness of the fallout from the thread from the DNC, I can't help but feel differently towards some of the members that are on here. Just the absolute hateful things that I see people write make me squeemish. I have family who are on the opposite ends of the spectrum who have heated debates that are more civil. I can't help but have those hateful things that are said carry over when someone asks advice or tells us about the cute little things that your babies do. Call me ignorant or whatever you want, but I've had enough of the mud-slinging, name calling, etc. on both sides.

-Sonia

NEVE and TRISTAN

09-03-2004, 09:58 AM

I guess I feel like they can be avoided so easily that they don't bother me. I do feel our views in politics, as wives, as moms as animal owners, as workers etc... are what shape us as Women (or men) and that that is a huge part of "what we wear" each day. These boards are a huge part of our lives and to take away a core of what a person can talk about it saddens me some.

NOW the fights in the threads, that's one thing...I honest to goodness did not follow the RNC thread, I was able to tell the chain of events the way my "board" is set up I could see in the subject lines a begging to "leave the thread alone", "let us have our space" kind of conversation. I guess I was not disturbed by the thread because I didn't read it.

I've said it before and will say it again these boards are very "a la carte", we can make them what we want, I use to not realize that as much, but if there is a poster I want to ignore, or a conversation that I want to ignore I am able to do that pretty easily. The good news is no one for the most part can post anonymous so we can see who is going to post. There have been post that have gotten my panties in a wad so much more than these political ones in the past, though I do have to say they have stopped considerably.

I don't know the answer, but I think a good question to have brought up.

As far as folks taking a leave of absence from the boards or wanting to leave the good news is one can always come back if they want :)... I think different times in our lives give us different expereinces with the boards, I know I took a sabatical from the boards and it was a great thing to do about a year ago...when folks emailed me off line to say "oh you should see what is going on on the boards and what 'so and so" is doing" I was not interested and actually said "if I am making the decision to not be privy to all of the good on the boards then I certainly am not going to log on to see the bad". I didn't think I'd come back, I had a quick question about developement and hoped to get my answer and off to live with my advice until I had another question. HOWEVER it was in the responses and the emails I got off line that I realized what a fantastic community I am in. And I decided then that I was not going to let one person, two or three ruin a good thing in my life.

I hate anytime anyone feels uncomfortable with the boards, I think the political threads for the most part have been few I must say.
I don't know the answer but the above is how I feel about it.
Neve and Tristan born Feb 25, 2003
* EDD 3/18/05 as of 8/24 kicking and moving arms via sono, very active.
* Adopting siblings in Ukraine, I171A from INS has arrived, dossier to Ukraine next week!!!!!!

KBecks

09-03-2004, 10:00 AM

I voted other. I really enjoyed the RNC thread, and liked the ability to talk with other like-minded folks. I generally wouldn't look at Democrat threads, and I would only post on them if I could do so in a very neutral, non-offensive way.

I think about this in terms of how I deal with friends face-to-face. I have many friends who support different candidates than I do. We sometimes will discuss an issue, a concern, or a fear, but it's a tiny, tiny percent of our overall conversations. And I still love my friends no matter who they vote for.

I would never call a friend a name or make them feel bad because of their political beliefs. That's just mean, online or face to face. Also, I would never rub it in their faces if my candidate wins vs. theirs, etc.

In viewing the posts here (and I haven't been here that long), it doesn't seem to have gotten too bad. Sometimes people are very sensitive online, and I'll admit that I've gotten my ire up on other message boards when people post rudely.

Anyway, I'm perfectly OK with a few political posts, they're easy to skip also for those who are not interested.

So, if everyone uses their good maners (that we're trying to teach to kids anyway), we should be fine. People who are rude should be ignored. Most rude people won't learn from being called out on their rudeness, anyway.

Also -- one last thing --- it's unrealistic to think that anyone will change their opinion just from reading a debate on a message board. So anyone who posts with the intent of converting others to their point of view are wasting their time, and board space IMHO. That would hopefully eliminate most of the debates.

Hope everyone has a nice Labor Day weekend. I'm going to paint the nursery -- now for the third time!!! (tried yellow, then green, now it's going to be BLUE!)

KBecks
due with #1 son on 10-15

NEVE and TRISTAN

09-03-2004, 10:02 AM

When you said
- There are issues that you can never educate others on - you have to just disagree. And seeing angry rants condemning your views does not help you see the other side. No one here or elsewhere will change my mind about abortion for example. There seems to be a fair amount of "if you disagree with idea A which I support then you are a bad/crazy/stupid/misinformed/foolish person" going on in the political threads.

That is such the truth...that is why none of these political threads get me hot and bothered. You can not educate others on it.

Great post!!!

Neve and Tristan born Feb 25, 2003
* EDD 3/18/05 as of 8/24 kicking and moving arms via sono, very active.
* Adopting siblings in Ukraine, I171A from INS has arrived, dossier to Ukraine next week!!!!!!

jk3

09-03-2004, 10:22 AM

I voted that I don't care either way mainly because I would go along with what others want.

I do not discuss politics with my friends (our stances are all over the place) and I like to find out what different people think about issues. I think individuals in communities can + should have different points of view. If we agreed all of the time that would be unrealistic + not all that interesting. I do feel that people should respect others + that largely religion should be kept out of discussions when possible as not to offend members of various faiths.

Since no one forces me to read a thread, it's my decision to view a controversial thread. It's important to disagree politely. Political threads are not the only controversial threads. So-called parenting threads can be construed as controversial if a posters have radically different viewpoints.

I am sorry that people feel badly. Hopefully we can use this poll as a learning tool. It's fine to disagree but it's not fine to be nasty or hurtful.

Jenn
DS 6/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

Rachels

09-03-2004, 10:26 AM

I used to not mind the political threads, and I'm uncomfortable with the idea that people simply can't be mature enough to skip threads that are going to be upsetting for them and thus must be censored from that entire line of conversation. I used to be a big proponent of allowing whatever kinds of discussions people want to have here, figuring that we're all adults. Now, though, I'd be just fine if the Fields wanted to shut it down. The problem is that people forget to actually behave like adults, and the threads get personal and nasty in a hurry. As a moderator, too, it isn't all that much fun clicking on a contentious thread six times a day waiting for it to turn the corner enough to be shut down.

I'd love to have discussions here of any ilk, and I DO think politics are part of parenting. But if it can't be done with some modicum of couth and respect, I'd rather it not happen at all.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

"When you know better, you do better."
Maya Angelou

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif Two years and counting!

Sarah1

09-03-2004, 10:29 AM

It annoys me too. That's why I generally don't read any of them. But I definitely don't frequent the boards as much as a result of all the political conversations (that's putting it nicely) going on here lately.

mamagoosie

09-03-2004, 10:31 AM

I voted yes--precisely because I respect the people on this board and think they are capable of intelligent, respectful debate. Yes, this country is so divided, not only politically, but geographically--and these boards are a way to bring people together I'll admit it, I'm a moderate to liberal democrat from a blue state and so are all my friends. And the truth is, I wish they didn't all agree with me because I'd like to hear the other side from people I respect--not just from politicians and the media. Here I KNOW there are people who share my values, even if they don't share my politics.

Many people posted that these discussions are better had IRL. Except that can be incredibly hard to find. It's true, I've made up my mind about who I'm voting for, but I'm still interested in understanding where our different views come from. After all, we're all good, intelligent, thoughtful, kind people, we love our country, we love our children and cherish their futures--why are we so divided? I would love to know how a person with my same values comes to a conclusion that is so different than mine.

The politicians aren't going to raise the level of debate--and the less we debate the issues among ourselves for fear of offending others, the more divided we will all be. Perhaps it is the liberal optimist in me that believes that we can talk about our differences and still respect each other -- I don't think closing our ears or censoring our thoughts is the answer. I don't "hold it against" anyone if they are a Republican--really, I'm interested to hear their opinions--as long as they are willing to give mine a fair listen.

Moreover, on this board, you can easily label a political thread, so if you don't want to discuss, read a different thread. I refuse to believe that the state of civic discourse in our country has fallen so far that we have to ban all political discussions because we are so afraid people will be nasty.

Sorry the post is so long--but in my family, I was taught that the way to solve differences of opinios was through respect and discussion. Ignoring the problem/not talking about it was never the answer. Perhaps the solution is to designate a special politics folder outside of the lounge for those of us who want to engage--that way we could respect the wishes of those who wish to steer clear.

My best to all of you--

Alex

MamaKath

09-03-2004, 11:06 AM

I voted Yes, but honestly I don't love them. Especially after reading the comments in this thread about it changing peoples opinions of the participants in the posts due to their affiliations. But then that I am sure also happens when other topics come up as well that easily stand hair on end with a few (for example- some people are really bothered by feeding issues and feel condemned even if they read that someone else chose to do it differently, fights easily are started).

I agree that they are easily avoidable. If someone knows they will read it, have to post a response that is viewed as hostile knowing they will get an argument back, and continue the pattern on top of it I guess I am not sure what their intention besides breaking down the sense of community is. I think though, again there are always going to be people who choose to do that and it won't matter what the topic. I do think politics is a part of parenting however and events such as conventions should be allowed an uninterupted thread of support.

I took a break from many boards in the last few months, only participating occassionally in a few gear boards. We traveled a fair bit and had visitors a fair bit so it was easier. Currently I have started participating again as things get back into the sense of normalcy, though I am not participating on many of my old "regular" boards.

This was a favorite for me due to the obvious care and concern many here share with each other even with the obvious diversity of choices, lifestyles, backgrounds, and views on every topic. I admit, I live in a rural community, have moved frequently and I am here long hours without dh who is working/commuting approximately 90 hours a week due to the terror alert. Often it is hard to get the in person support or just discussion, so I do head places like this (support to me for parenting includes things like politics).

Though the vast differences between all of us can often leave me with a sense of not belonging, the care and concern shown to me by a few have certainly given me the feeling that I have something worthwhile to contribute to the discussions and often because I am not at the same place in life. I guess having heard that my participation in any of those political threads may cause someone to color their overall view of me on these boards is disturbing.

Hoping for the loving, the not only agreeing community to return to "normal" soon! Have a wonderful weekend, stay safe (especially those of you evacuating), and know this caring community is still here thinking of you when you return to it the next time be it later today or months fro now. :-)

~Sorry so long winded!

amazz

09-03-2004, 11:17 AM

I voted other because I think that the RNC was a fun thread (I didn't read the DNC thread because it did not interest me and I knew I would disagree with many thing being said) until the mudslinging began. It literally hurts my stomach to read the comments people are making to one another, Rep and Dem alike. I made the decision last night to not post about politics and not to read the threads about politics anymore. I respect too many people (Rep AND Dem) on this board to get pulled into juvenille crap. I graduated HS and put that junk behind me....I don't need it here.

So while I am in favor of being able to discuss politics in a CIVIL and RESPECTFUL manner, that's not what is going on here. I am not blaming any one person or any one party. I think there are multiple people from both parties who need to step back and realize that we are a community that doesn't prosper from all the bickering and negativity.

Angela
EDD 10/15/04
A baby is God's opinion that the world should go on. ~Carl Sandburg

sntm

09-03-2004, 11:18 AM

I don't read the lounge much anymore, but I have enjoyed the political threads up until the point that they turned nasty. I don't discuss politics IRL very often, and I enjoyed getting other people's perspectives on things, especially as I haven't been able to see much of the conventions.

IMHO, we should not shut down the political threads, but should respect each other's desires to discuss issues which are important to us. That respect should include respecting the desire for debate OR the desire for only support.

Furthermore, I am disgusted by the name-calling, "it was done to me so I will do it to them" attitudes.

I chose other.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif[/img][/url]
Breastfeeding 14 months and counting

lizajane

09-03-2004, 12:06 PM

i don't care. i don't read them. i have strong feelings about some political issues, but to be honest, i don't do the research required to support my views well in an argument. therefore, i don't feel "qualified" to argue. i have ignored all the republican convention threads because i am a democrat in the same ways that i ignore the "help me learn to co-sleep" threads because i am a crib user. if it doesn't "apply" to me, i leave it alone.

to be COMPLETELY honest, i enjoy reading a little controversy (NOT biting and hurtful remarks!!) now and then. i think discussion and debate is interesting.

jasabo

09-03-2004, 01:51 PM

I voted yes. I realize some people get angry and would rather not discuss politics, but for the life of me I don't understand the logic behind forbidding the discussion of something because some people don't like it. I've said this before, and I'll say it again - just don't read the political posts. It's SO easy!! I didn't read the DNC threads at all because I wasn't interested and I knew I'd probably not like what was said.

I have gotten very angry at parenting and/or childbirth posts here in the Lounge that weren't related to politics at all. But I would never, ever question whether or not those subjects should be allowed. Once we start censoring topics, it's a slippery slope as to what's allowed and what's not allowed. Yes, the BB is centered on parenting issues, but the Lounge is "supposed" to be for OT posts. And politics certainly does effect our children.

And finally, I don't see any divisiveness at all on this bb. Yes, it exists on the political threads at times. But it's nonexistant on other threads, IMO. People are extremely supportive on this bb. I'm certainly able to look past a person's political affiliation and look at the entire person. Why is that so hard for others to do? I think it's very sad that someone might read my posts on the RNC thread and hold it against me on other threads. That tells me a lot about that person. Frankly, though, if it means someone holding my political affiliation against me rather then giving up my right to talk about politics, I'm more then happy to let it happen.

Lisa - mom to 14 month old twin boys

kijip

09-03-2004, 03:12 PM

Neve and Deborah:

Thanks so much for reading my Loooong post!

I don't get angry, riled or upset about the poitical posts but I have to admit that they are not my purpose in using these boards. The only ones that bother me are the ones that directly attack or dismiss the other side.

For someone heavily involved in politics it is great to have a break! It just feels a bit out of place to see the political threads.

aliceinwonderland

09-03-2004, 03:18 PM

I voted that I don't care because if I don't want to get riled up (easy these days), I just don't click on them.
I don't think restricting the board in that way (completely eliminating the opportunity to post about a subject that might be political) would help. In some way, maybe some members have some political steam they want to blow off once in a while. That should be ok (if the manner conforms to rules), IMHO.

bluej

09-03-2004, 03:45 PM

I agree with what you said Lisa. If someone views me differently as a whole b/c of my political beliefs, there's not much I can do about that. I don't let someone's political beliefs, feeding beliefs, sleeping beliefs or choice in carseat (yes, I know of at least one heated carseat thread) blur my vision of them as a whole person. I know there are people who have the same parenting style as myself but not the same political views; likewise some share political views but our parenting styles are very different and I respect them, their views and their experiences. What does concern me though is that someone might THINK that I feel differently about them. I guess there's not much I can do about that though. Well other than keep my views to myself. But it does disturb me that someone might think I think less of them or am angry at them just b/c we don't see eye to eye on a certain topic (or any topic for that matter). In all honesty though, I don't think anyone is holding anything against anyone else. All other threads seem to go on as normal with the same people, who happen to be disagreeing in the political thread, posting warmly and considerately to one another. And as much as politics upset some people, I have seen feeding and carseat threads get far more peronal and nasty than any political thread (and we've had some heated ones).

cinrein

09-03-2004, 04:20 PM

It's not so much that "I" get so upset by reading the political threads. If that were the only issue I would happily avoid them and problem solved.

IMO, the fights are changing this community. It's like when you have a fight with you spouse or good friend. You get over it and move on, but there's that short period of time when you're very careful around each other so as to not offend again. Yes you are being friendly, but it's not the same as it was. In time, it does get back to the same comfortable give and take. I feel like the political threads are coming so often that we never get back to the comfortable part. And even though I don't participate in them, I do see their effect on this community.

My 2 cents. :)

Cindy and Anna February 2003

wagner36

09-03-2004, 04:23 PM

I voted don't really care either way, but what I should have voted was Other.

I don't mind the political threads, and I think that banning them would be a slippery slope since there are other threads that can get heated as well (bfing, CIO, etc.). Sure, those other subjects are more directly related to parenting, but I don't think it is a good idea to start a precedent of banning threads.

The Field's have already asked us to stay away from political subjects, and it seems to me that only a few individuals have taken it to the nasty and unacceptable point. If those few individuals would just tame back their statements (not their opinions, just the innappropriate way they word them), I honestly don't think there would be a big problem. There's no real way to get them to do that, but perhaps just the fact that people are talking about banning the threads will be enough to get them to realize that their behavior is being construed as inappropriate.

And, if people would just kind of remember that these boards are COMPLETELY FULL of opinions (I, for instance, would almost rather sit through the RNC than be forced to carry a vinyl-coated diaper bag), we'd be better off. There's no ultimate right answer, there's no ultimate truth. And, if that's what you're looking to find or depart, this is hardly the best place to do it.

And, to be honest, it's the religious-centric stuff that gets to me more - not the political stuff.

Maybe in the future though, we could all kind of agree to keep those threads shorter? Both the DNC and RNC threads got outrageously long, and it would have been a good idea, I think, just to start a new thread every day. I also think it would have avoided the conflict a bit.

Saartje

09-03-2004, 04:28 PM

You're not the only one, Marisa. I really don't think political threads *not having to do with babies* belong on the BBB.

Some are saying in this thread that they think debate is necessary in a democracy, etc., etc. Yes, that's true. Open debate needs to happen. But it doesn't have to happen here.

There are other boards on the internet where political debate is appropriate -- indeed, there are those dedicated to it. If you're interested in participating in that, find a board to your taste that allows it. Just because you like the community here doesn't mean you have to turn this into your place to talk about every topic that comes to mind.

jasabo

09-03-2004, 04:52 PM

>(I, for instance, would almost
>rather sit through the RNC than be forced to carry a
>vinyl-coated diaper bag

Tara, how DARE you speak negatively about vinyl-coated diaper bags!! I have a vinyl-coated diaper bag!! You're an anti-vinyl-ite!!!

Lisa - mom to 14 month old twin boys

Obviously I'm just kidding, btw, and was making a veiled reference to the "anti-dendite" Seinfeld episode. Sometimes humor doesn't carry very well online :) Likewise, sometimes MY humor doesn't carry very well IRL either :)

Dscvrlifewith3

09-03-2004, 05:45 PM

I say no. I love coming here. I've said this several times, but this has been one of the best places I have posted on the net in 7 years. I try to avoid posting on the political threads, but I do read them. Sometimes I just wish I didn't have to see them at all hear, because I sometimes read things that make me say "I wish that person wouldnt have said that" because I really like them.

I left a big list I was on for parents of special needs children because of political talk. I loved the list and it was so informative, but all it talked about was the war and politics and there was a lot of ugliness involved. The owners would post and try to moderate but it was difficult. Thousands of people posted to this list, several doctors and organizations had represenatives on the group too. I am sure they just loved all of that garbage in their in box each day. :(

Marisa6826

09-03-2004, 05:51 PM

And I've come to the conclusion that what bothers me most about these threads is that the attitude that some of the people here have gotten. The sheer nastiness - to the point of being outright vicious is just overwhelming to me; especially when I think about these people being parents to young children.

It's not a good attitude. Period.

It disgusts me that this is the way (mostly) women treat other women when they disagree so strongly that it becomes rabid. You know who you are, and frankly, you should be ashamed of your behaviour.

What does that say about us? What does it say about our ability to show tolerance to our little ones?

It's truly sad. :(

-m

papal

09-03-2004, 05:57 PM

ROTFL about the vinyl-coated diaper bag.. i could not agree more!

pixelprincess

09-03-2004, 06:01 PM

I voted other. I tend to stay away from controversial threads like politics, religion, etc, but in reality I enjoy reading them (not the controversy, of course). It would be great if people could agree to disagree and leave it at that. I wish things could stay civil so more of us could "speak our mind".

JLiebCamm

09-03-2004, 06:13 PM

I voted "Yes" but after thinking about it I wish I would have voted "other". If the lounge didn't exist on this board I would probably vote "no", but I feel like the lounge is a catch-all place where people can chat about whatever is on their mind, not just baby stuff. I know that there are better places out there on the internet to discuss politics. But for Mommies with limited time (like me!), I only have time to participate in one message board and this is the best one I've found. And I think it's perfectly natural that people might want to discuss their reactions to the DNC/RNC coverage just as people want to discuss who got eliminated from the Amazing Race or what sports teams they're rooting for. It's all part of life.

That all being said, I get very sad when I see members wanting to leave these boards over political issues and I would rather avoid that kind of atmosphere if we can't keep it civil. I just keep having this Pollyanna optimism that we can work this all out and keep everyone happy!

himom

09-03-2004, 08:49 PM

I voted it's up to the Field's, but I think I personally will be staying out of these threads from now on. I was trying to avoid any political controversy threads because I tend to get riled up, but I went into the RNC thread because I thought it would be safe. Not so.

So, I'm staying all the way out. I got mad at some stuff in that thread and I snapped back, and I really wish I hadn't. Not because I think I was wrong, but because I value this community a great deal and I don't want to risk the happiness here over petty nastiness.

Jodi
Mommy to Joshua, born February 2003

hellosmiletoday

09-03-2004, 11:08 PM

Its ironic to come to the board and see bickering over the convention. All I get to watch is the hurricane coverage 24 hrs a day. I just ignore the political threads as I come to this board for baby advice. As a newcomer to boards, it seems as though there should be an alternate website for political comments. My time is limited with a newborn and when I come to the boards I focus on posts that give me information about raising my baby, and lately I am slowly able to help others as DD grows! Energy spent typing hurtful comments is energy wasted. This board should be a friendly place to reside!

brigmaman

09-03-2004, 11:30 PM

Thanks for the laugh, Tara!! Quite an analogy.

luvbeinmama

09-04-2004, 02:42 AM

I voted don't care, but I suppose I should have voted yes. I do enjoy reading these threads and peoples opinions. And I've learned enough about the way certain people behave in their posts (ALL controversial posts, not just the political ones) to avoid or skim their posts in such topics. Of course I will read what they have to say on other subjects, but I do avoid a few posters in certain topics. What really is annoying is not the posts themselves, but the few who make it a flame war. JMHO.

mamicka

09-05-2004, 11:40 AM

I voted yes although I wouldn't say that I love the threads that get nasty. I think that removing political topics would make this less of a 'real' place. I would rather see the discussions get heated than to stifle the natural discussions that come about.

That being said, I think that everyone who ever participates in the political or otherwise controversial discussions (I'm not excluding myself, so please don't take this personal) needs to not be so hasty with assuming that posts are meant to be inflammatory or insulting. I think it would serve the entire community well if we tried to learn more about where posters were coming from before getting so riled-up. Yes, sometimes people here purposely insult others... but I think it's taken that way WAY more than it's intended. Questions like "Could you explain where you're coming from when you say...?" or "This sounds really inflammatory, do you really mean that...?" would be really helpful instead of instantly labelling someone as a "troublemaker". I've been guilty of it myself, but some of the posters (not only this thread) who complain about the discussions getting nasty participate in making them nasty.

Vajrastorm

09-05-2004, 12:14 PM

Is that there are no consequences for becoming nasty.

I like debates, and often seek out debate boards on the internet. For a debate to work, it has to stay a debate. Flinging insults is NOT debating.

Here at BB, the worst that can happen when a poster makes personal attacks is that the thread is locked. There is no incentive to refrain from attacks in the future. I'm not a huge fan of "bulletin board police" but I also do not see why 99% of the board should have to avoid all politics because 1% won't be adults.

At other boards, you will get warned and eventually banned if you insist on making personal attacks on other members. I am not pro-banning, but I have found that without a reason to stay civil, some people never will. They don't care enough.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I stopped reading the political threads because I don't want to see who is insulting who. I'd rather not read a post on shoes and think, "Oh you're the person who said such and such an awful thing to another poster."

In sum:
Strong opinions = OK
Personal attacks = not OK
Having consequences = Priceless :P

starrynight

09-05-2004, 02:24 PM

I voted yes, but I have issues with censorship so I couldn't feel good voting any other way.

I think that the threads are pretty easy to avoid, the titles clearly say "politics" or something to that effect. To me, I come to parenting boards to discuss and talk to other adults, and for the occassional fluff post with cute pics or to ask about a certain product. I don't really care one way or the other about puke posts etc, I know that is what parenting boards are for but they aren't what I come to parenting boards for kwim? I'm ready to leave a different community I post in because the only talk that is allowed is strickly asking parenting questions or talk about your kids, no news, hot topics, politics, nothing else and after awhile it's boring.

I would hate to see anyone leave over this, I really would but at the same time I'm not sure we should avoid all topics that might upset other people either. It's a tough one.

For now I think they should stay, as long as the titles are clearly marked, it's avoidable. If someone reads it anyway, well sorry if this comes off as snarky, but you get what you went looking for. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't be able to read those threads but I think honestly politics never come without debate so if you don't think you can handle reading it or don't want to read it you shouldn't open it in the first place. (mind you this is general YOU, and I'm not addressing any one person here)

-peace

Marisa6826

09-05-2004, 05:52 PM

Andrie-

I believe that the Fields will send warning emails to the perpetrators. I think they get two or three chances before being banned.

Maybe Rachel or Lori can explain the way it works. I personally feel that some of the instigators NEEDED to be warned accordingly - and yes, with appropriate consequences.

And yes, I find myself bearing in mind the attitude that some have shown here when they are posting about other things. Kind of like witnessing inappropriate behaviour and then seening the person in the street again. You just don't forget, KWIM?

-m

momathome

09-05-2004, 06:19 PM

Marisa - Unfortunately, I know for a fact that the number of chances a person gets appears to be unlimitted - I know of one poster in particular who has been warned multiple times about their behavior and they are still allowed to participate, which I think is ridiculous. If a person is proven to be a regular disruption and problem, I do not believe they should be allowed to continue posting. Perhaps a 3 strikes and your out policy would be a good way to go - the Fields' have never actually said what their policy is for problem posters.

On to much more important topics - how are you feeling, girlie?!?! How is your tachocardia (sp?) doing? Morning sickness? Impending double mommyhood? ;) Take care!

christic

09-05-2004, 07:45 PM

Voting Other because while I've found some of them interesting before I don't see the point of any discussion if it has to take place within a partisan-only thread. It'd be kind of like going to the Stroller board and having a Maclaren-only thread where no one would be allowed to say that a wheel fell off their Techno. It's one thing to ask for respectful comments only (you shouldn't even have to ask really) but quite another to say that only people who think or intend to vote a particular way are allowed to participate in a thread. At that point the whole discussion should be taken to a Yahoo group, and I don't see the problem from a censorship standpoint of asking for that to happen. A thread with only one viewpoint allowed seems to me akin to someone advertising here.

So I guess I'm saying the political threads should stay if all the participants were really willing to listen to varied opinions with an open mind. Can you talk about your candidate or issue with the same openess to their pros and cons that you bring to a discussion of a baby product? Perhaps that kind of detachment's not possible in politics today, but if you think you need to limit participants in order to keep a discussion civil then it seems to me you should take it elsewhere.

bluej

09-05-2004, 08:27 PM

I know I've already commented in this thread, but I've had a thought that has kept popping into my head. Do you think the media affects your perception of 'the other side'? I may need to return to watching more MTV and VH1 b/c I've started to realize the more I watch the news the more I get the notion of a divided country in my head and quite honestly, in my attitude. The news would have you thinking that the people are ready to take it to the streets and start fighting with their neighbors. Yet I'm not fighting with any of my neighbors, or the 98% of DH's family that are of the opposite party, or even with the few relatives I have who readily admit they are anti-American. I don't agree with them on many issues, but overall we all get along. And in the end we agree on most things, we just see the way of getting those things accomplished very differently. The media seems to portray an 'us against them' attitude b/w the two parties. Yes, there are things I feel very passionately about that others don't agree with but these aren't even the issues the media is reporting on. I'm starting to think that there are media Democrats and media Republicans and these people have extreme views and they are getting to voice their views over and over again, yet neither truly represent the average Democrat or the average Republican. Anybody else feel this way or is it just me?