How often do you seethe with your anger at your child?

[gatorruth]

I frequently tell friends that I totally understand child abuse. I would never hurt my kids, but could understand moms that are 15, have not learned self control and really JUST don't know how to handle these kids. This is the toughest job around- and the 'combat pay' isn't there!

Ruth

[KBecks]

I voted "almost never". I'm pretty calm, but I do get frustrated. I think I yelled once. I did have a week or so where I called my 2.25 year old a "little xyz" in my head quite a few times. Most of it was due to his struggling at diaper changes and getting dressed, and intentionally throwing food, etc.

I pay attention to when I start to get angry and use that awarness to calm down. I know that getting angry doesn't help anything, it just makes things worse, and I'm able to shut it down fast.

ETA: Please don't ask how often I seethe with anger against my dear, dear husband!! :P

[o_mom]

Right now it's everyday, but mainly because I am so pregnant and tired.

When I am rested and not pregnant it would probably be a couple times a week. Knowing that they are only doing what kids do doesn't make me less angry, just keeps me from acting on it ;-)

[KBecks]

Even though I don't get that angry, I totally understand where abuse comes from. The work and sacrifice of caring for another human being can really wear someone down and be frustrating, especially if you don't have good coping skills or a good support system.

[egoldber]

I said a few times a week. Pre-Amy it would have been a few times a month. Having to juggle the needs of 2 very different children and still maintain some semblence of home is sooooo hard.

[g-mama]

I so agree. When I had one child, I was so much more able to control my feelings and didn't get overwhelmed with my emotions nearly as often. It's when I'm feeling pulled in all directions and like I can't get any cooperation, particularly from my oldest, that start to feel really angry. I see these moms on TV with all kinds of kids and they seem so calm and peaceful - with three, I feel so out of control and frazzled a lot of the time.


~Kristen

Paolo 11-00
Benjamin 8-03
Marco 12-05

[egoldber]

"It's when I'm feeling pulled in all directions and like I can't get any cooperation, particularly from my oldest, that start to feel really angry"

Yup, thats it! And I know she's only 5, but a lot of times I feel like Sarah ought to "know better". And inevitably its a time when I really NEED her to be cooperative that she picks to be contrary.

[o_mom]

>"It's when I'm feeling pulled in all directions and like I
>can't get any cooperation, particularly from my oldest, that
>start to feel really angry"
>
>Yup, thats it! And I know she's only 5, but a lot of times I
>feel like Sarah ought to "know better". And inevitably its a
>time when I really NEED her to be cooperative that she picks
>to be contrary.

I do the same thing with DS1 and he's only 3.5!

[rprav8r]

Wow, I seem to be out of the norm here. I voted "almost never," but truthfully, I have never felt anger toward my child, certainly not seething anger. I've been frustrated and annoyed, but anger to me is something entirely different. I don't know, maybe my 1.5 yr old just isn't old enough to piss me off that badly yet? At any rate, it makes me sad to know that so many are SO angry at their children. I wish for you all to find peace within your parent/child relationship.


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[rprav8r]

Wow, I seem to be out of the norm here. I voted "almost never," but truthfully, I have never felt anger toward my child, certainly not seething anger. I've been frustrated and annoyed, but anger to me is something entirely different. I don't know, maybe my 1.5 yr old just isn't old enough to piss me off that badly yet? At any rate, it makes me sad to know that so many are SO angry at their children. I wish for you all to find peace within your parent/child relationship.


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[o_mom]

Not that you will change, by any means, but at 1.5 I would have answered the same.

[o_mom]

Not that you will change, by any means, but at 1.5 I would have answered the same.

[Marisa6826]

It definitely gets more trying as they get older.

Right now, it's Sophia that really sends me to the edge. Mia is pretty mellow 98% of the time.

It's very easy to forget that Sophie's only 4, and there are times when I *know* she knows better and pulls some sort of stunt exactly when it's the last thing I need.

I suspect that a lot of it is them trying to assert their independence, and I guess that's a good thing overall. But preschoolers, I am certain, are what fund the majority of colourists - at least Sophie is with mine. :P

-m

[Marisa6826]

It definitely gets more trying as they get older.

Right now, it's Sophia that really sends me to the edge. Mia is pretty mellow 98% of the time.

It's very easy to forget that Sophie's only 4, and there are times when I *know* she knows better and pulls some sort of stunt exactly when it's the last thing I need.

I suspect that a lot of it is them trying to assert their independence, and I guess that's a good thing overall. But preschoolers, I am certain, are what fund the majority of colourists - at least Sophie is with mine. :P

-m

[boogiemom]

Yep Ry, I totally get what you are saying. I've never felt anger toward my DS2 who will be 2 years old in the next few days. However, I confess to becoming truly angry at my DS1 for the same reasons listed above. When you have two and they are pulling you in two different directions, it becomes extremely frustrating when the one that should and does know better is being uncooperative. Yes, he's only 5 years old but he is extremely bright and absolutely knows what not to do and does it anyway with a smile. You have no idea how frustrating it can be as he usually chooses a moment when DS2 is having a meltdown to try to get away with things.

Please don't be sad for me as I have a wonderful and perfectly normal relationship with my son. He would tell you that Mommy gets "grouchy" sometimes but so does he. I think it is healthy to allow my child to see that sometimes life gets frustrating but we deal with it the best we can and move on. My son is the only kid in his class who will come running out to me with a huge grin and yelling "MOMMY!" and then give me a big hug. He is healthy, happy and well adjusted and sometimes........ a real stinker. He knows I don't have to like all of his choices but I do love him no matter what.

If you choose to have another child and are so blessed, then maybe someday you will understand. Until you have been in the situation that so many of us are speaking of, it's impossible to relate. We don't expect you to BUT please don't judge.

[boogiemom]

Yep Ry, I totally get what you are saying. I've never felt anger toward my DS2 who will be 2 years old in the next few days. However, I confess to becoming truly angry at my DS1 for the same reasons listed above. When you have two and they are pulling you in two different directions, it becomes extremely frustrating when the one that should and does know better is being uncooperative. Yes, he's only 5 years old but he is extremely bright and absolutely knows what not to do and does it anyway with a smile. You have no idea how frustrating it can be as he usually chooses a moment when DS2 is having a meltdown to try to get away with things.

Please don't be sad for me as I have a wonderful and perfectly normal relationship with my son. He would tell you that Mommy gets "grouchy" sometimes but so does he. I think it is healthy to allow my child to see that sometimes life gets frustrating but we deal with it the best we can and move on. My son is the only kid in his class who will come running out to me with a huge grin and yelling "MOMMY!" and then give me a big hug. He is healthy, happy and well adjusted and sometimes........ a real stinker. He knows I don't have to like all of his choices but I do love him no matter what.

If you choose to have another child and are so blessed, then maybe someday you will understand. Until you have been in the situation that so many of us are speaking of, it's impossible to relate. We don't expect you to BUT please don't judge.

[gatorsmom]

I've felt this maybe 3 times in the past 3 years. And it has only been after DS hurt someone intentionally or destroyed something of value after I told him not to touch it.


Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005

[gatorsmom]

I've felt this maybe 3 times in the past 3 years. And it has only been after DS hurt someone intentionally or destroyed something of value after I told him not to touch it.


Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005

[rprav8r]

I guess I can't say as I have experienced "seething anger" toward anyone recently. Certainly no one in my family, even when I've been majorly pissed off. Frustration, annoyance, garden-variety anger, sure. But seething anger is just on another level that I don't get to on a routine basis. I sure hope that I don't start getting there often as DS gets older. :(


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[rprav8r]

I guess I can't say as I have experienced "seething anger" toward anyone recently. Certainly no one in my family, even when I've been majorly pissed off. Frustration, annoyance, garden-variety anger, sure. But seething anger is just on another level that I don't get to on a routine basis. I sure hope that I don't start getting there often as DS gets older. :(


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[rprav8r]

> Until you have been in the
>situation that so many of us are speaking of, it's impossible
>to relate. We don't expect you to BUT please don't judge.

I don't think that feeling sad about it is akin to judging. I was just surprised that SO MANY seem to feel that way, when those types of emotions are not part of my reality at all.


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[rprav8r]

> Until you have been in the
>situation that so many of us are speaking of, it's impossible
>to relate. We don't expect you to BUT please don't judge.

I don't think that feeling sad about it is akin to judging. I was just surprised that SO MANY seem to feel that way, when those types of emotions are not part of my reality at all.


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[boogiemom]

I personally have never felt sad about something unless I felt it was somehow wrong, inappropriate or lacking in some way. I'm just asking that you consider that there are situations and circumstances that can occur that you have no way of understanding. Be glad that you don't feel these emotions. Honestly, I don't either except when my DS1 is purposefully choosing to be naughty. I realize that it is perfectly normal behavior for a 5-yr. old and yet that doesn't make it any less frustrating in the moment.

[boogiemom]

I personally have never felt sad about something unless I felt it was somehow wrong, inappropriate or lacking in some way. I'm just asking that you consider that there are situations and circumstances that can occur that you have no way of understanding. Be glad that you don't feel these emotions. Honestly, I don't either except when my DS1 is purposefully choosing to be naughty. I realize that it is perfectly normal behavior for a 5-yr. old and yet that doesn't make it any less frustrating in the moment.

[DebbieJ]

>Wow, I seem to be out of the norm here. I voted "almost
>never," but truthfully, I have never felt anger toward my
>child, certainly not seething anger. I've been frustrated and
>annoyed, but anger to me is something entirely different. I
>don't know, maybe my 1.5 yr old just isn't old enough to piss
>me off that badly yet? At any rate, it makes me sad to know
>that so many are SO angry at their children. I wish for you
>all to find peace within your parent/child relationship.

Just wait. The best is yet to come.


~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[DebbieJ]

>Wow, I seem to be out of the norm here. I voted "almost
>never," but truthfully, I have never felt anger toward my
>child, certainly not seething anger. I've been frustrated and
>annoyed, but anger to me is something entirely different. I
>don't know, maybe my 1.5 yr old just isn't old enough to piss
>me off that badly yet? At any rate, it makes me sad to know
>that so many are SO angry at their children. I wish for you
>all to find peace within your parent/child relationship.

Just wait. The best is yet to come.


~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[rprav8r]

Then I guess different things make us sad. I'm sorry that my (valid) emotional reaction to your (valid) emotions comes across as judgmental.


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[rprav8r]

Then I guess different things make us sad. I'm sorry that my (valid) emotional reaction to your (valid) emotions comes across as judgmental.


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[KBecks]

Here's the definition of "seethe"

archaic : BOIL
a : to be in a state of rapid agitated movement
b : to churn or foam as if boiling
3 : to suffer violent internal excitement <seethe with jealousy>

So, "boiling on the inside" is how I read it.
I think seething = majorly pissed off, which isn't unusual for people.

Seething is just a more sophisticated word for it.

[KBecks]

Here's the definition of "seethe"

archaic : BOIL
a : to be in a state of rapid agitated movement
b : to churn or foam as if boiling
3 : to suffer violent internal excitement <seethe with jealousy>

So, "boiling on the inside" is how I read it.
I think seething = majorly pissed off, which isn't unusual for people.

Seething is just a more sophisticated word for it.

[rprav8r]

The OP defined it as:
"It has to be deep anger and frustration that lasts more than a few seconds, where you are rapidly approaching the end of your rope (or long past it)."
So, that's what I was envisioning. Sustained deep anger.

-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[rprav8r]

The OP defined it as:
"It has to be deep anger and frustration that lasts more than a few seconds, where you are rapidly approaching the end of your rope (or long past it)."
So, that's what I was envisioning. Sustained deep anger.

-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[tarabenet]

So Ryan's opinion and experience is invalid, as she has never felt that way and has only one child? Those diclaimers should be in the poll.

The reactions to her simple, empathetic statement of wishing everyone peace seem a bit extreme. If someone is feeling judged based on those comments, I have to think that person is the one judging herself harshly.

Anger and frustration are beyond normal. But "deep anger and frustration that lasts more than a few second, where you are raplidly approaching the end of your rope (or long past it)" is a red flag. Any caregiver feeling that way needs to get some help. No one deserves to live in that sort of upeaval.

[tarabenet]

So Ryan's opinion and experience is invalid, as she has never felt that way and has only one child? Those diclaimers should be in the poll.

The reactions to her simple, empathetic statement of wishing everyone peace seem a bit extreme. If someone is feeling judged based on those comments, I have to think that person is the one judging herself harshly.

Anger and frustration are beyond normal. But "deep anger and frustration that lasts more than a few second, where you are raplidly approaching the end of your rope (or long past it)" is a red flag. Any caregiver feeling that way needs to get some help. No one deserves to live in that sort of upeaval.

[boogiemom]

Invalid? Absolutely not!

Honestly, I was just sitting here smiling to myself and remembering those more peaceful times as I read her comments. I thought it was sweet, really. I just wanted to present another point of view based on my different experiences and situation. As I said in my post, I feel the same way about my similarly aged DS. Dealing with the older kids is just different and way more trying at times, that's all.

[boogiemom]

Invalid? Absolutely not!

Honestly, I was just sitting here smiling to myself and remembering those more peaceful times as I read her comments. I thought it was sweet, really. I just wanted to present another point of view based on my different experiences and situation. As I said in my post, I feel the same way about my similarly aged DS. Dealing with the older kids is just different and way more trying at times, that's all.

[crayonblue]

"Anger and frustration are beyond normal. But "deep anger and frustration that lasts more than a few second, where you are raplidly approaching the end of your rope (or long past it)" is a red flag. Any caregiver feeling that way needs to get some help. No one deserves to live in that sort of upeaval."

If this is true then EVERY mother in the world needs to go get some help. Particularly moms with 3 year olds and older and with more than one child. I would have answered almost never until my child turned 3 and we added a younger child into the mix.

[crayonblue]

"Anger and frustration are beyond normal. But "deep anger and frustration that lasts more than a few second, where you are raplidly approaching the end of your rope (or long past it)" is a red flag. Any caregiver feeling that way needs to get some help. No one deserves to live in that sort of upeaval."

If this is true then EVERY mother in the world needs to go get some help. Particularly moms with 3 year olds and older and with more than one child. I would have answered almost never until my child turned 3 and we added a younger child into the mix.

[tarabenet]

Hey, enjoy *these* peaceful times too! ;) You will be seriously nostalgic for the days of simple temper tantrums when your little darling turns into a teenage monster steeped in hormone soup!

It wasn't any particular poster, just a developing tone of condescension that made me feel defensive of Ryan.

[tarabenet]

Hey, enjoy *these* peaceful times too! ;) You will be seriously nostalgic for the days of simple temper tantrums when your little darling turns into a teenage monster steeped in hormone soup!

It wasn't any particular poster, just a developing tone of condescension that made me feel defensive of Ryan.

[tarabenet]

I agree! I think every mother in the world deserves help! I don't mean that anyone feeling that way is deficient and needs mental care! I mean everyone needs more coping tools, more assistance, a chance for parent time-out, whatever.

I do understand the anger, much more than y'all would probably give me credit for. And I'm very clear on how mch easier it is for me, that I am only the parent-figure during the day!

I think humans evolved living in communities, where moms could share the burdens, and we have lost so much of that. At least there is a place like this, to share the feelings. But it doesn't replace having people to pitch in, and people you can both rely on and support. That kind of help would be the ideal, I think.

[tarabenet]

I agree! I think every mother in the world deserves help! I don't mean that anyone feeling that way is deficient and needs mental care! I mean everyone needs more coping tools, more assistance, a chance for parent time-out, whatever.

I do understand the anger, much more than y'all would probably give me credit for. And I'm very clear on how mch easier it is for me, that I am only the parent-figure during the day!

I think humans evolved living in communities, where moms could share the burdens, and we have lost so much of that. At least there is a place like this, to share the feelings. But it doesn't replace having people to pitch in, and people you can both rely on and support. That kind of help would be the ideal, I think.

[o_mom]

>If this is true then EVERY mother in the world needs to go get
>some help. Particularly moms with 3 year olds and older and
>with more than one child. I would have answered almost never
>until my child turned 3 and we added a younger child into the
>mix.

LOL, what IS it about age 3? I swear DS1 turned 3 and it all went downhill. :-) "Terrible Two's" were nothing compared to three....

[o_mom]

>If this is true then EVERY mother in the world needs to go get
>some help. Particularly moms with 3 year olds and older and
>with more than one child. I would have answered almost never
>until my child turned 3 and we added a younger child into the
>mix.

LOL, what IS it about age 3? I swear DS1 turned 3 and it all went downhill. :-) "Terrible Two's" were nothing compared to three....

[brittone2]

3 has been much more interesting around here than 2. DS hit 3 and got a new sibling at the same time, which made it tough. Fortunately, things are calming down a bit but I'm sure we'll have a resurgence of the fun of being 3 very soon ;)

Juggling 2 kids crying/screaming at the same time tends to get me seething, mostly internally. I'm not good at figuring out who needs me most. Do I let the baby scream or wipe poop off DS's bottom and change his clothes right this instant? I don't yell often (and usually just go in a closet and shriek to myself, but not at DS), but it happens. I usually apologize, tell DS that mommy sometimes has a hard time holding back her feelings when she's frustrated. We talk about it. I think he's learned something from talking about how hard it can be to control emotions sometimes. That said, I wish I never lost control of my emotions, but I'm just not there yet.

Someone wise once said here (Jeana I think?) that two year olds do things that annoy you, and 3 year olds do things *TO* annoy you :P

ETA: I was thinking about this a lot today, and I have to say that I don't think I get seething mad *at* DS. I get seething mad at myself when I'm having trouble juggling 2 kids and housework. I do sometimes snap at DS, but I rarely yell at him. I do sometimes go to another room and scream, which still scares him a bit, but I find I am much better after I get it out. Not ideal, but that's where I am. In any case, I realized that I usually am not seething mad at him...more than I don't have a maid to clean my house daily so I can parent two kids without distractions ;)

[brittone2]

3 has been much more interesting around here than 2. DS hit 3 and got a new sibling at the same time, which made it tough. Fortunately, things are calming down a bit but I'm sure we'll have a resurgence of the fun of being 3 very soon ;)

Juggling 2 kids crying/screaming at the same time tends to get me seething, mostly internally. I'm not good at figuring out who needs me most. Do I let the baby scream or wipe poop off DS's bottom and change his clothes right this instant? I don't yell often (and usually just go in a closet and shriek to myself, but not at DS), but it happens. I usually apologize, tell DS that mommy sometimes has a hard time holding back her feelings when she's frustrated. We talk about it. I think he's learned something from talking about how hard it can be to control emotions sometimes. That said, I wish I never lost control of my emotions, but I'm just not there yet.

Someone wise once said here (Jeana I think?) that two year olds do things that annoy you, and 3 year olds do things *TO* annoy you :P

ETA: I was thinking about this a lot today, and I have to say that I don't think I get seething mad *at* DS. I get seething mad at myself when I'm having trouble juggling 2 kids and housework. I do sometimes snap at DS, but I rarely yell at him. I do sometimes go to another room and scream, which still scares him a bit, but I find I am much better after I get it out. Not ideal, but that's where I am. In any case, I realized that I usually am not seething mad at him...more than I don't have a maid to clean my house daily so I can parent two kids without distractions ;)

[Moneypenny]

>LOL, what IS it about age 3? I swear DS1 turned 3 and it all
>went downhill. :-) "Terrible Two's" were nothing compared to
>three....


It's because age 3 is age 2 with an extra year of practice!


Susan
mama to my cutie pie, Avery
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif[/img][/url]

[Moneypenny]

>LOL, what IS it about age 3? I swear DS1 turned 3 and it all
>went downhill. :-) "Terrible Two's" were nothing compared to
>three....


It's because age 3 is age 2 with an extra year of practice!


Susan
mama to my cutie pie, Avery
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif[/img][/url]

[brittone2]

LOL. so true ;)

[brittone2]

LOL. so true ;)

[g-mama]

Oh wow, at age 1.5 I would have answered "never" also.

I hope you are able to maintain your calm all throughout your child's life and I'm sure there are mothers who do better than I, but know that things can and do change as they grow older.

At age 1.5, it is not possible for your child to do anything to purposely anger you. I know because I have an almost 1.5-year old in my house now who is pure lightness and joy even when he is feeling cranky. Now in about 4 or 5 years, that changes drastically.

Let's take this morning for example. My 6yo always wants milk with his breakfast, so I just poured him some and set it down next to him while he was eating. He says, in a nasty voice, "I don't want this!" and pushes it across the table, thereby spilling it all over. I calmly tell him to get a towel and clean it up and he says, "No - you do it! I told you I didn't want it in the first place!" Might that make you angry? I could give many examples and I have many friends with kids the same age who would say they struggle with similar situations in their homes, so it's not just that I'm raising a brat.

I wish for myself, too, for peace in my parent/child relationships. But somehow I feel very judged by your remarks.


~Kristen

Paolo 11-00
Benjamin 8-03
Marco 12-05

[g-mama]

Oh wow, at age 1.5 I would have answered "never" also.

I hope you are able to maintain your calm all throughout your child's life and I'm sure there are mothers who do better than I, but know that things can and do change as they grow older.

At age 1.5, it is not possible for your child to do anything to purposely anger you. I know because I have an almost 1.5-year old in my house now who is pure lightness and joy even when he is feeling cranky. Now in about 4 or 5 years, that changes drastically.

Let's take this morning for example. My 6yo always wants milk with his breakfast, so I just poured him some and set it down next to him while he was eating. He says, in a nasty voice, "I don't want this!" and pushes it across the table, thereby spilling it all over. I calmly tell him to get a towel and clean it up and he says, "No - you do it! I told you I didn't want it in the first place!" Might that make you angry? I could give many examples and I have many friends with kids the same age who would say they struggle with similar situations in their homes, so it's not just that I'm raising a brat.

I wish for myself, too, for peace in my parent/child relationships. But somehow I feel very judged by your remarks.


~Kristen

Paolo 11-00
Benjamin 8-03
Marco 12-05

[crayonblue]

After thinking about this some more, I actually don't think there is anything wrong with seething anger, depending on what a person does with it. Any normal person would get angry (seethingly angry) at the stunts kids can pull. I can choose to yell and throw things or I can go scream in the bathroom (did this just last week and was proud of myself that I didn't yell in front of the kids).

The tone of much of this thread is that seething anger is wrong. I'm going to disagree.

Like Benet said, moms need more help and I am certainly not going to argue with that! But even moms with all the help in the world are still dealing with children and are going to lose it sometimes.

[crayonblue]

After thinking about this some more, I actually don't think there is anything wrong with seething anger, depending on what a person does with it. Any normal person would get angry (seethingly angry) at the stunts kids can pull. I can choose to yell and throw things or I can go scream in the bathroom (did this just last week and was proud of myself that I didn't yell in front of the kids).

The tone of much of this thread is that seething anger is wrong. I'm going to disagree.

Like Benet said, moms need more help and I am certainly not going to argue with that! But even moms with all the help in the world are still dealing with children and are going to lose it sometimes.

[rprav8r]

>Let's take this morning for example. My 6yo always wants milk
>with his breakfast, so I just poured him some and set it down
>next to him while he was eating. He says, in a nasty voice,
>"I don't want this!" and pushes it across the table, thereby
>spilling it all over. I calmly tell him to get a towel and
>clean it up and he says, "No - you do it! I told you I didn't
>want it in the first place!" Might that make you angry?

Yes. But seething with sustained deep anger to where I'm at the end of my rope several times per week? I guess we'll see.


>I wish for myself, too, for peace in my parent/child
>relationships. But somehow I feel very judged by your
>remarks.

Sorry bout that. I'm feeling a little judged myself, these days. :)


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[rprav8r]

>Let's take this morning for example. My 6yo always wants milk
>with his breakfast, so I just poured him some and set it down
>next to him while he was eating. He says, in a nasty voice,
>"I don't want this!" and pushes it across the table, thereby
>spilling it all over. I calmly tell him to get a towel and
>clean it up and he says, "No - you do it! I told you I didn't
>want it in the first place!" Might that make you angry?

Yes. But seething with sustained deep anger to where I'm at the end of my rope several times per week? I guess we'll see.


>I wish for myself, too, for peace in my parent/child
>relationships. But somehow I feel very judged by your
>remarks.

Sorry bout that. I'm feeling a little judged myself, these days. :)


-Ry,
mom to Max the one year old
and my girl in heaven

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/37124.gif

[ColorBlue]

Look at the poll...23 people responded a few times a week. All those people need help? No. All those people just get angry, there is nothing wrong with getting that angry at your kids, there is nothing wrong feeling like you are at the end of your rope. Acting on those feelings in a way that affects your children negatively is wrong but having those feelings is normal.

The pp poster's opinion is not invalid but it was judgmental. And so is yours. I don't need "help" and my anger is not a "red flag". I'm just a mom living with three young children that don't always behave. And sometimes that pisses me off, most of the time it doesn't because they are children, but when I'm tired or sick or just woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day...well it does and I'm not going to apologize for it or feel bad about it.

The one thing we never talk about between ourselves as mom's is how angry our children can make us. We need to talk about it to know that we are normal and that most people go through it so that a mom can say okay I can get through this, I'm not a terrible person.

And I don't think I need to add that I love my children more than anything in the world and I'm not living with "upheaval".


Tracy

Mama to three girls, my big kindergartener Grace 11/01, and my babies Ella and Madeline 10/04.

[ColorBlue]

Look at the poll...23 people responded a few times a week. All those people need help? No. All those people just get angry, there is nothing wrong with getting that angry at your kids, there is nothing wrong feeling like you are at the end of your rope. Acting on those feelings in a way that affects your children negatively is wrong but having those feelings is normal.

The pp poster's opinion is not invalid but it was judgmental. And so is yours. I don't need "help" and my anger is not a "red flag". I'm just a mom living with three young children that don't always behave. And sometimes that pisses me off, most of the time it doesn't because they are children, but when I'm tired or sick or just woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day...well it does and I'm not going to apologize for it or feel bad about it.

The one thing we never talk about between ourselves as mom's is how angry our children can make us. We need to talk about it to know that we are normal and that most people go through it so that a mom can say okay I can get through this, I'm not a terrible person.

And I don't think I need to add that I love my children more than anything in the world and I'm not living with "upheaval".


Tracy

Mama to three girls, my big kindergartener Grace 11/01, and my babies Ella and Madeline 10/04.

[Momof3Labs]

A couple of things went through my head before I even read the responses!

1. Moms with younger kids will be more likely to choose almost never. If you limited the poll to parents with at least one child over 2.5 or 3yo, you'd definitely get a different distribution of responses.

2. I said a couple of times a month, give or take, though I know that it would be more if I were a SAHM!

3. There are times that I get mad like this at DS1, and a few minutes later, after I regroup, I find myself hugging him and telling him that sometimes it's hard for me to remember that he's still little because in so many ways he seems so big.

[Momof3Labs]

A couple of things went through my head before I even read the responses!

1. Moms with younger kids will be more likely to choose almost never. If you limited the poll to parents with at least one child over 2.5 or 3yo, you'd definitely get a different distribution of responses.

2. I said a couple of times a month, give or take, though I know that it would be more if I were a SAHM!

3. There are times that I get mad like this at DS1, and a few minutes later, after I regroup, I find myself hugging him and telling him that sometimes it's hard for me to remember that he's still little because in so many ways he seems so big.

[kijip]

I have to say that I am with Ry and I have an almost 4 year old who now nearly daily throws big, fat, loud, annoying snits over some percieved injustice about bathtime, naptime, toys whatnot. Annoyed, frustrated, irritated, baffled. Yes, I feel those things from time to time. I would even say I feel anger from time to time but it is not in memory seething, boiling anger and it is gone *as quickly as it came*. When I feel especially frustrated, I pass the situation on and when my husband feels frustrated, he passes it on to me. Luckily, each of us can rise to the occasion when the other one has had it. We sparingly use time out but mostly all gd techniques. I know that this lack of anger/screaming is in small part due to the extreme support network that we have- we are each home much of the time when Toby is not in school, each of my parents babysits weekly so that we may study and spend time together. But I also think it is true that we have very good coping mechanisms from the parenting support groups we participated in and led (and my husband from his DV support group) and MOSTLY that we are both just darn mellow, roll with the punches sort of people. Just because someone does not get angry and scream at their kids, does not mean that those people have it easy. In asking Ry and others not to judge, I see a judgement towards those that simply have a different experience for whatever reason. Parenting is hard work but it is not fair to decide who has a harder time due to age of kids, disposition of kids or number of kids. I have seen my child have tantrums to end all tantrums and that sort of anger and screaming back at my kid is just not a part of my reality and it is 100% fair for me to say that when asked. Relating a different experience (as ff moms are so oten reminded about breastfeeding :P ) is not judgement. I have friends who do get very upset with their kids ans I don't think that is a reflection of all that much other than a different personality, and I think they are all pretty darn good parents, in some cases better parents than I think I am. As for parenting support I truly believe that ALL parents need support, more support than they get and more support that many are willing to ask for or are able to access in their area even if they do want it.

[kijip]

I have to say that I am with Ry and I have an almost 4 year old who now nearly daily throws big, fat, loud, annoying snits over some percieved injustice about bathtime, naptime, toys whatnot. Annoyed, frustrated, irritated, baffled. Yes, I feel those things from time to time. I would even say I feel anger from time to time but it is not in memory seething, boiling anger and it is gone *as quickly as it came*. When I feel especially frustrated, I pass the situation on and when my husband feels frustrated, he passes it on to me. Luckily, each of us can rise to the occasion when the other one has had it. We sparingly use time out but mostly all gd techniques. I know that this lack of anger/screaming is in small part due to the extreme support network that we have- we are each home much of the time when Toby is not in school, each of my parents babysits weekly so that we may study and spend time together. But I also think it is true that we have very good coping mechanisms from the parenting support groups we participated in and led (and my husband from his DV support group) and MOSTLY that we are both just darn mellow, roll with the punches sort of people. Just because someone does not get angry and scream at their kids, does not mean that those people have it easy. In asking Ry and others not to judge, I see a judgement towards those that simply have a different experience for whatever reason. Parenting is hard work but it is not fair to decide who has a harder time due to age of kids, disposition of kids or number of kids. I have seen my child have tantrums to end all tantrums and that sort of anger and screaming back at my kid is just not a part of my reality and it is 100% fair for me to say that when asked. Relating a different experience (as ff moms are so oten reminded about breastfeeding :P ) is not judgement. I have friends who do get very upset with their kids ans I don't think that is a reflection of all that much other than a different personality, and I think they are all pretty darn good parents, in some cases better parents than I think I am. As for parenting support I truly believe that ALL parents need support, more support than they get and more support that many are willing to ask for or are able to access in their area even if they do want it.

[kdeunc]

Just wait 'til 4!! :)

[kdeunc]

Just wait 'til 4!! :)

[brittone2]

don't tell me that LOL~~!!!

[brittone2]

don't tell me that LOL~~!!!

[boogiemom]

Trust me. I do know. When I was teaching, I MUCH preferred the younger kids. Once the hormones hit, all bets are off! :)

I really apologize if I came across as condescending. That wasn't my intention at all. I know it's hard to get a true "read" on someone's words when we are communicating this way. I really was smiling to myself and remembering the days when I felt the same way. She just sounded so shocked that anyone could become angry with their sweet little miracle. :) I was just trying to offer up my experience in that I was once where she was and now I know that things do change. It doesn't mean I love my DS1 any less but yes, I do have to deal with him differently than I used to. Wouldn't it be nice if we could "freeze" them somewhere before they hit 3 yrs.?

I agree with everyone who said 2 yrs. was no biggie but 3 yrs.....YUCK! For us, 4 yrs. was better and now 5 yrs. is more challenging again. I actually went to a teacher training one year where they showed a graph of how kids develop and change and how it's related to behavior. It was amazing how they could pinpoint the ages that were the most challenging and how it really goes back and forth year to year, behavior-wise.

We all bring different experiences with us to these forums and I just think it's important to remember that. Just because it isn't the way that you have experienced something, doesn't mean it isn't right.

[boogiemom]

Trust me. I do know. When I was teaching, I MUCH preferred the younger kids. Once the hormones hit, all bets are off! :)

I really apologize if I came across as condescending. That wasn't my intention at all. I know it's hard to get a true "read" on someone's words when we are communicating this way. I really was smiling to myself and remembering the days when I felt the same way. She just sounded so shocked that anyone could become angry with their sweet little miracle. :) I was just trying to offer up my experience in that I was once where she was and now I know that things do change. It doesn't mean I love my DS1 any less but yes, I do have to deal with him differently than I used to. Wouldn't it be nice if we could "freeze" them somewhere before they hit 3 yrs.?

I agree with everyone who said 2 yrs. was no biggie but 3 yrs.....YUCK! For us, 4 yrs. was better and now 5 yrs. is more challenging again. I actually went to a teacher training one year where they showed a graph of how kids develop and change and how it's related to behavior. It was amazing how they could pinpoint the ages that were the most challenging and how it really goes back and forth year to year, behavior-wise.

We all bring different experiences with us to these forums and I just think it's important to remember that. Just because it isn't the way that you have experienced something, doesn't mean it isn't right.

[KBecks]

For us, 12 to 24 months was THE BEST YEAR EVER of Alek's childhood. Not that he's that old, but that time period was so fabulous and enjoyable. Soak it up and revel in it.

Now that I have a relatively easy almost 2.5 year old AND a delightful 8 month old, it's much harder. I dream of mommy vacations (just me, no DH or kids), and babysitter nights. I love the kids, but it's not as dreamy as it used to be.

[KBecks]

For us, 12 to 24 months was THE BEST YEAR EVER of Alek's childhood. Not that he's that old, but that time period was so fabulous and enjoyable. Soak it up and revel in it.

Now that I have a relatively easy almost 2.5 year old AND a delightful 8 month old, it's much harder. I dream of mommy vacations (just me, no DH or kids), and babysitter nights. I love the kids, but it's not as dreamy as it used to be.

[boogiemom]

Katie, you are so lucky that you have someone around to "pass the situation on" to. My DH travels a lot and I simply don't have that luxury. I wish I did as I know it would make life so much easier. :) Obviously, it will help if you are able to take a step back for a few moments. It's just not always possible.

Also, I want to point out that just because mamas acknowledge that they do experience the anger doesn't mean that they are acting out or "screaming back at my kid" as you say. That's not the reality at my house. I won't say I've never yelled at my DS but it's not the norm either. Mistakes happen. We discuss it, apologize and move on.

I think relating a different experience is different than telling someone you are "sad" about their situation. I could say that it makes me sad that some moms breastfeed/formula feed, allow/don't allow treats, do/don't led their kids touch animals in a petting zoo, do/don't rear-face their carseats, etc. Some would say they are sad for those kids whose parents choose to make them only children because they might be lonely while others are sad for the kids whose parents have many kids because then each kid doesn't get the individual attention. The list goes on and on.

I agree with you that we all need support. That's exactly why it is important for all of us to share our varied experiences without feeling the need to judge each other.

Let's all go give our kids some snuggles! They are all lucky to have mamas who take the time to share and learn from other mamas as we do here. I've learned a lot from mamas (& daddy's) on this board. I respect each and every one even when I may not agree with them. :)

[boogiemom]

Katie, you are so lucky that you have someone around to "pass the situation on" to. My DH travels a lot and I simply don't have that luxury. I wish I did as I know it would make life so much easier. :) Obviously, it will help if you are able to take a step back for a few moments. It's just not always possible.

Also, I want to point out that just because mamas acknowledge that they do experience the anger doesn't mean that they are acting out or "screaming back at my kid" as you say. That's not the reality at my house. I won't say I've never yelled at my DS but it's not the norm either. Mistakes happen. We discuss it, apologize and move on.

I think relating a different experience is different than telling someone you are "sad" about their situation. I could say that it makes me sad that some moms breastfeed/formula feed, allow/don't allow treats, do/don't led their kids touch animals in a petting zoo, do/don't rear-face their carseats, etc. Some would say they are sad for those kids whose parents choose to make them only children because they might be lonely while others are sad for the kids whose parents have many kids because then each kid doesn't get the individual attention. The list goes on and on.

I agree with you that we all need support. That's exactly why it is important for all of us to share our varied experiences without feeling the need to judge each other.

Let's all go give our kids some snuggles! They are all lucky to have mamas who take the time to share and learn from other mamas as we do here. I've learned a lot from mamas (& daddy's) on this board. I respect each and every one even when I may not agree with them. :)

[boogiemom]

12-24 months is my favorite time too! I'm so sad that my DS2 is soon to hit 2yrs. and surely will start the not-so "warm and fuzzy" behaviors. :(

O'well. I know there are many things about having a 2-yr. old that I will enjoy just as I did last time. It's fun watching them assert some independence and learn so many new things between 2yrs. and 3yrs. It's truly amazing to stop when your child is 3yrs. old and look back on them at 2yrs. and see the differences. I know my DS1 really went from being a toddler to being a "real boy" :) during that time. Now, I look at him and don't know where the time has gone. He's so big and grown-up looking already! It's just a reminder to cherish every stage because it all goes so fast.

[boogiemom]

12-24 months is my favorite time too! I'm so sad that my DS2 is soon to hit 2yrs. and surely will start the not-so "warm and fuzzy" behaviors. :(

O'well. I know there are many things about having a 2-yr. old that I will enjoy just as I did last time. It's fun watching them assert some independence and learn so many new things between 2yrs. and 3yrs. It's truly amazing to stop when your child is 3yrs. old and look back on them at 2yrs. and see the differences. I know my DS1 really went from being a toddler to being a "real boy" :) during that time. Now, I look at him and don't know where the time has gone. He's so big and grown-up looking already! It's just a reminder to cherish every stage because it all goes so fast.

[KBecks]

Nicely said. I agree, being angry, even very, very angry isn't a problem unless the anger is acted upon in a bad way.

[KBecks]

Nicely said. I agree, being angry, even very, very angry isn't a problem unless the anger is acted upon in a bad way.

[egoldber]

"Sustained deep anger"

But she qualified it as more than a few seconds. I'm not seething for days, but certainly longer than a few seconds. I'll send Sarah to her room for 5 or 10 minutes so that she AND I can calm down.

[egoldber]

"Sustained deep anger"

But she qualified it as more than a few seconds. I'm not seething for days, but certainly longer than a few seconds. I'll send Sarah to her room for 5 or 10 minutes so that she AND I can calm down.

[kijip]

I'll add here that I was single for over 6 months with Toby acting out *far more than now* because of the separation and had many days and hours alone with him and I still don't reach the sustained anger/end of my rope (with my child) feeling. While it is nice we have a person to pass the kid along to if we are frustrated, that situation is quite rare. Maybe once a month or two months. I took the yelling thing from the OP which referred to parental screaming. The *biggest* difference I think boils down to personality. Some people just get upset more or less easily and when people become parents their general approach to frustration and anger comes right along with them. Of course mistakes happen with *all* of us and we all learn and move on. But it is fundamentally the job of the parent(s) to figure out how to minimize mistakes which can hurt their children and stress out the parents and family.

[kijip]

I'll add here that I was single for over 6 months with Toby acting out *far more than now* because of the separation and had many days and hours alone with him and I still don't reach the sustained anger/end of my rope (with my child) feeling. While it is nice we have a person to pass the kid along to if we are frustrated, that situation is quite rare. Maybe once a month or two months. I took the yelling thing from the OP which referred to parental screaming. The *biggest* difference I think boils down to personality. Some people just get upset more or less easily and when people become parents their general approach to frustration and anger comes right along with them. Of course mistakes happen with *all* of us and we all learn and move on. But it is fundamentally the job of the parent(s) to figure out how to minimize mistakes which can hurt their children and stress out the parents and family.

[boogiemom]

I do remember that you had shared that with us. I'm sure that did have an effect on Toby and I'm sure you handled it beautifully. I didn't mean just your DH. I have my DH and that is it. There's no one else within several hours who can give us a much needed break. You are fortunate in that you have that support system.

I absolutely agree that personality has a lot to do with it. I am Italian & Irish. I am a very.....passionate person. :) There is definitely a difference in the way I parent vs. the way my more laid-back friends parent. That's okay. There are differences in the personalities of our kids as well.

It is DEFINITELY the job of the parent to figure out how to minimize issues and deal with them appropriately. No argument there. I just think that it is okay to let the kids know sometimes when you are frustrated and be a good model of how to deal with those feelings. I don't think it is wrong to have the feelings but there are definitely wrong ways of dealing with those feelings.

[boogiemom]

I do remember that you had shared that with us. I'm sure that did have an effect on Toby and I'm sure you handled it beautifully. I didn't mean just your DH. I have my DH and that is it. There's no one else within several hours who can give us a much needed break. You are fortunate in that you have that support system.

I absolutely agree that personality has a lot to do with it. I am Italian & Irish. I am a very.....passionate person. :) There is definitely a difference in the way I parent vs. the way my more laid-back friends parent. That's okay. There are differences in the personalities of our kids as well.

It is DEFINITELY the job of the parent to figure out how to minimize issues and deal with them appropriately. No argument there. I just think that it is okay to let the kids know sometimes when you are frustrated and be a good model of how to deal with those feelings. I don't think it is wrong to have the feelings but there are definitely wrong ways of dealing with those feelings.

[kijip]

>Honestly, I was just sitting here smiling to myself and
>remembering those more peaceful times as I read her comments.
>I thought it was sweet, really. I just wanted to present
>another point of view based on my different experiences and
>situation. As I said in my post, I feel the same way about my
>similarly aged DS. Dealing with the older kids is just
>different and way more trying at times, that's all.

FTR, I was told similar to Ry about how things would get harder and I would change my mind/loss my cool more when Toby was 12, 18, 24 months. Well, he is almost 4 and a total ball of tantrum when he decides to run amuck and my mind has not changed. Sustained anger, feeling at the end of my rope is just not part of my reality, for whatever reason.

Toby has done at least 3 outrageous, oh not you didn't type things in the last 5 days, one of which involved easter egg dye (not the PAAS stuff, the real dyes) AND a painting I just bought as well as my rug and my dining area drapes x( . About the same to some of the defiant anecdotes listed in this thread. And still anger, reflected back at my son, was not part of my reality in my relationship with my son. Just because other people feel that way does not give them license to assume others either do or will once their child reaches a certain age.

[kijip]

>Honestly, I was just sitting here smiling to myself and
>remembering those more peaceful times as I read her comments.
>I thought it was sweet, really. I just wanted to present
>another point of view based on my different experiences and
>situation. As I said in my post, I feel the same way about my
>similarly aged DS. Dealing with the older kids is just
>different and way more trying at times, that's all.

FTR, I was told similar to Ry about how things would get harder and I would change my mind/loss my cool more when Toby was 12, 18, 24 months. Well, he is almost 4 and a total ball of tantrum when he decides to run amuck and my mind has not changed. Sustained anger, feeling at the end of my rope is just not part of my reality, for whatever reason.

Toby has done at least 3 outrageous, oh not you didn't type things in the last 5 days, one of which involved easter egg dye (not the PAAS stuff, the real dyes) AND a painting I just bought as well as my rug and my dining area drapes x( . About the same to some of the defiant anecdotes listed in this thread. And still anger, reflected back at my son, was not part of my reality in my relationship with my son. Just because other people feel that way does not give them license to assume others either do or will once their child reaches a certain age.

[o_mom]

But can you see how someone dealing with those type of situations 12 hrs a day on a daily basis with no relief might feel anger?

I don't think people are upset because Ry or you have never felt anger toward your child. It seems to be the surprise, shock and pity that anyone COULD feel that way and the suggestion that anyone that does feel that way needs professional help that most people find offensive.

[kijip]

>I just think that it is okay to let the kids know
>sometimes when you are frustrated and be a good model of how
>to deal with those feelings. I don't think it is wrong to
>have the feelings but there are definitely wrong ways of
>dealing with those feelings.

ITA with this. But people have different ways of dealing with it and showing frustration. Toby sees my frustration from time to time, and that is healthy because he sees it resolve. But it just is not part of my personality or parenting style for my frustration to be sustained anger or yelling/screaming. I know that there are plenty of parents that get angry and yell and resolve as well and it is a healthy process for the family. But when anger is resoving in yelling very frequently and explosively (which does not seem to be your situation at all Boogiemom), making for an unpeaceful home, that can be a sign that a big change needs to be made or some sort of parenting support group would be a good idea. Parents feeling that sort of situation often should try and get help, not assume that it is the norm and that everyone is the same so change is futile.

Public health departments, non-profits, churches all sorts of places can offer support to parents. Often times middle class or "mainstream" parents don't seek such services because they think they are for "other" types of people. But seriously, parent support is needed in all ages, demographics and income levels. And while not availbale everywhere, there are non-judgmental services in many areas to help parents that are not otherwise considered at risk.

[lisams]

We hit a peak around the time DD turned 4 and I was pregnant (hormonal). That was a really tough time for the both of us. People think that 3 or 4 will be so much easier than toddlerhood (at least I did!). We're doing much better now, so gald to be over that little phase. Of course I'm sure there will be many more in the future!

[mamicka]

Well said, both Lana & Karen.

I'm reading this thread thinking... since when is feeling angry, even seeting angry, not part of "normal"? I've seethed in anger at many people in my life, including my kids. I've never behaved or felt in a way that deserves anyone else's pity. It's called life. It's OK because I *do* have good coping skills that when I seeth with anger, I handle it like... an adult.

Allison
Surprise #3 due 7/07

[boogiemom]

Honestly, I'm happy for you. However, as indicated in the poll, clearly you are in the minority. I do think it is normal to assume that others may experience that which is obviously normal for most. Are there exceptions? Certainly. I just think that just because you haven't experienced it yet doesn't necessarily mean that you won't. I don't know of anyone who would have thought that they would feel this way. I would have said "no way". But, it happens, obviously to a lot of parents.

[boogiemom]

Exactly.

[kijip]

>But can you see how someone dealing with those type of
>situations 12 hrs a day on a daily basis with no relief might
>feel anger?

12 hours of anger a day is something I think it is fair to say needs help. I am sure you don't mean you feel 12 hours of anger a day, but if someone does, then yes help is a good idea IMHO. They don't just need it, they deserve it for their own health. There should be no shame in getting help.

>I don't think people are upset because Ry or you have never
>felt anger toward your child. It seems to be the surprise,
>shock and pity that anyone COULD feel that way and the
>suggestion that anyone that does feel that way needs
>professional help that most people find offensive.

I have often found it offensive that people who do feel anger towards their kids just poo-poo those that don't as much with "oh you'll see" ot "your kid is easy". If what you are saying is the case, then there would not be so many posts basically telling her that it will chang, just you wait and see. It is a two way street at the very least, in all fairness. And FTR I in no way feel shock, pity or surprize here. I just want to be beleived when I state, in all truth, that I have a very different day to day and year to year reality.

[lisams]

"3. There are times that I get mad like this at DS1, and a few minutes later, after I regroup, I find myself hugging him and telling him that sometimes it's hard for me to remember that he's still little because in so many ways he seems so big. "

YES! In the past month there have been a couple of times when after I have some time to think through my "moment" (which usually is me using a tone or level of voice I don't like using) that I take DD in my lap and tell her I'm sorry and remind her that I love her. Four is such a unique age. They seem so big and independant and able to understand more things but they're still these little children trying to figure out the world which includes testing limits and flexing those "emotion muscles". It's a natural stage of development but it's enough to drive even the calmest of mothers bonkers!

[boogiemom]

Absolutely, agreed. :)

[bubbaray]

Well, I voted every day, but if you had a more frequent choice than that, I would have voted for that.

I can't wait to go back to work next January. I would have been back at work already if I weren't EBFg DD#2 and she would take a bottle....

Melissa

DD#1: 04/2004

DD#2: 01/2007

[o_mom]

>>But can you see how someone dealing with those type of
>>situations 12 hrs a day on a daily basis with no relief
>might
>>feel anger?
>
>12 hours of anger a day is something I think it is fair to say
>needs help. I am sure you don't mean you feel 12 hours of
>anger a day, but if someone does, then yes help is a good idea
>IMHO. They don't just need it, they deserve it for their own
>health. There should be no shame in getting help.

Yes, 12 hours a day of anger would be bad, LOL (at the misunderstanding, not someone being that angry). I didn't mean that - yes, that would need help.

I was asking if you could understand how a person dealing with dealing small children for 12 hours a day with no relief might at some point feel anger toward their child. I think it is obvious now from your other posts that you do.


>I have often found it offensive that people who do feel anger
>towards their kids just poo-poo those that don't as much with
>"oh you'll see" ot "your kid is easy". If what you are saying
>is the case, then there would not be so many posts basically
>telling her that it will chang, just you wait and see. It is a
>two way street at the very least, in all fairness. And FTR I
>in no way feel shock, pity or surprize here. I just want to
>be beleived when I state, in all truth, that I have a very
>different day to day and year to year reality.
>

I don't think anyone is saying that she absolutely will feel anger toward her child or that anyone is lying about it (though a few comments could be taken that way). To me, alot of people are saying that after experiencing an older child or dealing with multiple children your perspective changes and you have a better understanding of how someone could be angry with a child even if you never are.

ET: Clarify

[newmomto3kids]

And still anger, reflected back at my son, was not
>part of my reality in my relationship with my son.

I didn't see where it said anywhere in the original post that the anger had to be directed back at the child. I frequently get angry at their behavior or actions, but don't necessarily direct that anger back at my children. Sometimes I probably do, but not by necessity.

Not trying to be bratty, just pointing out that the feeling of anger is different than any action taken out of anger.

[kijip]

Yeah, timeouts here are situation timeouts, where everyone gets to chill out. :P

[lovin2shop]

I have a flip side to this situation. I voted in the rare to never catagory. But (and there's a big one here), I did some therapy a few years ago for insomnia/anxiety and my therapist taught me that my problems were related to my fear of anger as an emotion. So, I never reacted with anger when appropriate and actually had a hard time even acknowledging that I was angry about something. Instead, I tended to make excuses for and empathize with the person that should have angered me. Now, I'm not saying in any way that the people who voted in the same catagory have this same problem at all. Just trying to point out that there can be an unhealthy side to showing no anger at all when it is actually warranted. I really hope to be able to model to my DS that anger is ok at times and that there is a healthy way to deal with it. And it's still a work in progress for myself....

[KBecks]

>I just want to be beleived when I state, in all truth, that I have a >very different day to day and year to year reality. >>

Honey, after reading about Toby and his adventures with the egg dye, the new painting, the curtains and the carpet, I think our realities really aren't that different!! :P

Wasn't it just the other day I heard of JBaxter's (I think it was her) son attacking her leather sofa and loveseat with a paring knife?

Oh, the joys of motherhood!

[dogmom]

Now that I work more than my DH it's a few times a month if not less. But when I worked part time and my DH worked M-F and I did the bulk of the child care it was a few times a week. Funny how that happens. That, it and of itself, is a good enough reason for me not to be a SAHM>

Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03
& Eve 6/18/06

[tarabenet]

I think a lot of my response came from the fact that I kind of know Ryan. I suspect taht sort of anger really isn't part of who she is. not saying she has been protected from it all her life, just saying it isn't part of her own makeup. D truly doubt she will feel that kind of anger with her son, no matter what.

I know, I know: kinda makes you wanna put Jell-o in her sneakers or something! ;) It's just one of the many wonderful things about Ry!

It gives me hope, knowing more and more people who aren't short-fused like my family was. My parents have matured incredibly since my childhood. I sure hope I have too. I know that sort of anger was in my past but hasn't really been part of my life in a long long time. I wish that experience for everyone!

[kellij]

It really scares me that it gets worse! I have what I like to call a "strong-willed" 2 year and 4 month old son and a 11-month-old daughter. It is exhausting!

It's especially hard at the end of the day. I'm trying to fix dinner, my "darling" husband is nowhere in sight, the kids are getting tired and it's just too much. I told my husband it's kind of like I'm exhausted from jogging a marathon all day and suddenly I find out I have to sprint for the next hour.

It's not bad at all on the weekends when my husband and I play man on man, or take turns, it's just tough during the week. Or it's not so bad if one of them is down for a nap. So I definitely think there is a directly proportionate relationship to have more than one small child to the level of difficulty in caring for the children.

It's just the constant testing, and demanding, and the requirement for an immediate response by the 2-year-old that gets so tiresome. It's hard enough, but then add a crying baby into the picture and it's darn near impossible.

I never knew being a stay-at-home mom would be so hard. I wouldn't change it and I'm absolutely nuts for my kiddos, but I appreciate my mom a lot more now!

[Piglet]

>2. I said a couple of times a month, give or take, though I
>know that it would be more if I were a SAHM!

This is 100% true for me! I remember feeling very angry some days when I was a SAHM on mat leave. I would call DH on the phone, rant about what happened at home and then feel better. I am looking forward to mat leave again, but not to the feelings of being angry and upset that come from being surrounded day and night by kids that are not always well-behaved. That is why I do so much better as a WOHM mom. I need some time to regroup every day and I feel that as a SAHM that is very hard to do.

[kijip]

>I didn't see where it said anywhere in the original post that
>the anger had to be directed back at the child. I frequently
>get angry at their behavior or actions, but don't necessarily
>direct that anger back at my children. Sometimes I probably
>do, but not by necessity.
>
>Not trying to be bratty, just pointing out that the feeling of
>anger is different than any action taken out of anger.

I took "scream fest" to mean that the kids were being screamed at. That is the lens on which I based my responses. That seems pretty outwards to me. I am not saying I don't get frustrated, but that I don't get so angry I feel like I am at the end of a rope or that I need to scream and yell.

[gatorsmom]

Probably the reason I rarely feel "seething" anger is because when I am getting to that point, I start giggling. Uncontrollably. I don't consciously do this, it is my natural response to a very difficult situation. And usually the thought that rolls through my head at the time is, "oh man, could this get any worse?" It's kind of like an out-of-body experience where I see myself in the grocery store with both kids in the cart, me pushing it and looking at them in stunned silence as the youngest one is hitting the older one on the head with the bag of grapes and the oldest is screaming and throwing things out of the cart. And everyone is looking. I just know if someone were to say something to me, I'd start rolling on the floor snorting.

Now, I'm not sure about those moms who understandably lose their head, but I'm pretty sure that this giggling response is worthy of some "help."

Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005

[newmomto3kids]

You are totally right, I missed that part. I guess I am a little touchy today. Sorry...

[C99]

>The pp poster's opinion is not invalid but it was judgmental.
>And so is yours. I don't need "help" and my anger is not a
>"red flag". I'm just a mom living with three young children
>that don't always behave. And sometimes that pisses me off,
>most of the time it doesn't because they are children, but
>when I'm tired or sick or just woke up on the wrong side of
>the bed that day...well it does and I'm not going to apologize
>for it or feel bad about it.
>
> The one thing we never talk about between ourselves as mom's
>is how angry our children can make us. We need to talk about
>it to know that we are normal and that most people go through
>it so that a mom can say okay I can get through this, I'm not
>a terrible person.

Bravo! Bravo! :: applause ::

[cilantromapuche]

I felt that 3's were tough. Now that DS is almost 4 it is much better with occasional days of defiance. I really felt that I had a teenager on my hands. Forget about me being angry, he seemed to have an anger problem. I know it is him defining his boundries and mine but it is not fun.

[elaineandmichaelsmommy]

I voted every couple of months. In truth it might be more like monthly. But I was wondering if anyone else found their fuse a little shorter when they're premenstruel. I know mine is shorter and I've already gone through one bag of dark m&m's. Although some months are easier than others, dh has finally learned what weeks of the month to buy chocolate ice cream at the store. LOL.
Look, none of us are perfect. And I agree that those with 1 child may have less stress than those with 2 or more. My parents had 4, we have 2 and I can certainly remember my parents blowing their top on a regular basis. It's not a bad thing to loose your temper. As long as you don't take it out on the kids. I think maybe it helps them learn that even moms and dad have their limits and that there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. JMHO though I'm sure that there are those who would disagree. Everyone differant though.

[stella]

right. I rarely seethe for more than a few minutes - if only because I know how to remove myself from the situation - if at all possible - by locking myself in the bathroom, walking outside, going to Target (if dh is home).

But during those times where two children (ages 4 and 5) are obviously conspiring to send me over the edge, I seethe with the best of them.

[Wife_and_mommy]

> The one thing we never talk about between ourselves as mom's
>is how angry our children can make us. We need to talk about
>it to know that we are normal and that most people go through
>it so that a mom can say okay I can get through this, I'm not
>a terrible person.

This is so true. Thanks for sharing.

Karen's brought this up before. I'm right there with you ladies that have almost no/no support network and 12-hr days with little ones. Who wouldn't get angry at some point?

A huge factor for me is sleep deprivation. I have an infinitely better viewpoint of dc's shenanigans when I've gotten enough sleep.



http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif[/img][/url] http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif[/img][/url]

I love them most when they are sleeping.--Me
http://b4.lilypie.com/HSUwm4.png
http://b2.lilypie.com/UgAXm5.png

[julieakc]

I'm so glad you started this thread/poll. The last few days have been VERY challenging around here and I've been feeling bad about it, but knowing I'm not the only one makes me feel better about things.

I know part of it is that I have been battling various illnessess for over 2 weeks now which means my tolerance is lowered, and I think DS, although not outwardly displaying any sick symptoms, might not be feeling 100% which makes him more irritable, combined of course with the normal 3YO asserting his independence thing.

[KrisM]

I'm also in the almost never category. DS turns 3 this month and DD is 10 months. I am a SAHM. Seems like I fit into all the categories that many say would make other "almost never" pps change their vote - older child, more than 1 child, SAHM. Got them all.

DS certainly frustrates me, but only once or twice have I really been so angry at him that I would call it seething. I will say that compared to some of my friends' kids, he is a bit calmer. Not a ton, but a bit. He isn't into screaming just for screaming, for example. He does do quite a few things that land him in timeout.

He has taken to peeing in the playroom on the floor (he's been pt'd for months now) and to running his sister over with a ride on car. Obviously, I am not happy about either of these and I do get frustrated and angry. But, I remember he's only 3 (almost) and that's just what they do and it's my job to teach him not to.

I think some people are just not prone to that type of anger. I am not a person that gets overly angry at much of anything. I don't feel good about myself when I do get angry, so I try to avoid it.

I'm not judging anyone who does seethe with anger. I can certainly see how that would happen. I do think some of whether you do or don't depends on your personality too, not just the actions of your DC(s).

[jk3]

Excellent response. I completely agree with your sentiments!
Jenn
DS 6/03
& cautiously expecting in May!

[JBaxter]

Yup that was my little darling. I was beyond seething that day. I called my DH who KNEW from the sound of my voice I was at the END of my rope that day. He asked if he should come home but I regrouped.

The funny thing was I didnt even punish Nathan that day. I couldnt I was even to angry for that.

2 hrs later I had the repair man scheduled to repair my 2 week old leather lazy boy sofa AND chair and I was not seething anymore. $175 later the repair looks WONDERFUL :)



I do semiregularly go beyond angry I have 3 boys it happens like alot of you mentioned I never felt that way with just one he was a SUPER MELLOW child really pretty much a model toddler till his brother was born :)

I dont see anything wrong with anger as long as it dosnt turn to abuse.

[daisymommy]

Gosh, I am so glad you asked this question...I thought I was the only one, and that there was something seripusly wrong with me as a parent, or wrong with my child that he could provoke such anger from me. I haven't read all the posts, but it's just good to know that I am not alone!

[JBaxter]

I am really convinced that they dont refer to 3's because it would scare the daylights out of most moms. 2's are just for practice LOL

[DrSally]

I guess it depends on how you personally take "seethe with anger", but to me it means "really angry", which happens. How could it not. The deeply empathic child psychologist, Winnicott, wrote a paper on the importance of "hate". Essentially, he contends that one cannot really love unless one has felt hatred, b/c one isn't authentic unless one has allowed oneself to feel the full range of human emotions toward significant people in one's life (I can't remember if he was referring toward child to mother or mother to child). It is a shocking concept, and I'm not referring to anyone here specifically. I just wanted to introduce the concept that negative emotions toward one's child are not necessarily bad. Of course, it's what you do with them...

[MartiesMom2B]

I am right there with you in regards to sleep deprivation. I've definitely gotten angrier at my oldest lately than I have before.

Sonia
Mommy to Martie & Mei

[gina]

My 1yr old rarely; my teen almost daily.
She really knows how to get me steaming

Gina

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/ginaelms/Dec06020.jpg

DD 15 yr Jade
DD 12 mo - Happy First Birthday Olivia!

[kozachka]

It used to be few times a day, when DS was going through terrible two's and I was a SAHM. Now it's more like few times a month. I am pretty sure the fact that I work and therefore don't spend as much time with him, have more 'me' time and miss him a lot have a lot to do with it. And now that he is 3+, DS is much more subtle.

[american_mama]

After a particularly long and frustrating time getting the girls to bed, which culminated in a scream-fest on my part, I wonder how often you feel seething anger towards your children?

It has to be deep anger and frustration that lasts more than a few seconds, where you are rapidly approaching the end of your rope (or long past it).