swim teacher saw a sign of mild autism

[Lynnie]

I have read throught the old posts, but just wanted to see if anyone could help me with identifying the sign(s) of mild autism or add.

My 3 and 5 yr old boys are taking swim lessons at a friend's house after school - their 3.5 yr old girl and 2 yr old boy are taking them too. each kid goes for 20 minutes (the baby for 10 with his mom).

Today (lesson #4) the teacher remarked that the 3 year old exhibited a couple signs which she has seen in autistic kids - he loves to just float in the water. She explains to him that he needs to move his arms, and she says he looks at her, but is in his own little world, and while he says he understands the instructions, will not move his arms. He just likes to float. She stayed an extra half hour, and he just didn't want to move his arms. FWIW, the 3.5 year old girl swims like a fish. (well, for 4 lessons worth)

He is stubborn and likes to do things on his schedule and on his terms, but I have noticed at times that he doesn't always seem to connect when I ask him questions - I even brought it up with his "teacher" at school/daycare, but she said he responds fine there. He often does seem to be inwardly focused, and is so much more imaginative in his play than his older brother - always playing with people or objects, and having them talk and interact, etc.

She says she has worked with autistic kids, and that these are some of the symptoms.

So of course, off to the internet I go.

Any input, advice, opinions, suggestions ??

[Jenny_A]

Honestly, I wouldn't be putting too much merit in what his swim teacher says. Just because she works with autistic children doesn't mean she's qualified to pick up symptoms in another child. I'm sure she has good intentions but I disagree with her making you think your child could possibly be autistic when he's more than likely just fine. Especially since his teacher doesn't see any signs.

The floating thing you described sounds fairly normal for a 3 year old learning what it is like to be in water. I also wouldn't compare him to the 3.5 year old. She may just be more gifted when it comes to swimming - that doesn't mean your son is autistic.

That's great that he's more imaginitive in his play. He's probably just wired differently than his older brother.

I would suggest taking the swim teacher's well meaning observation with a grain of salt. If it worries you mention it to your Ped. the next time your DS has a checkup.

Jenny

[Lynnie]

thanks for the response.

not that i am just sitting in here in the computer room waiting for answers or anything. (which you know I am).

but you said kindof what my husband said. and i love his imagination and spunk.

will still head back to google, but thanks !

[sidmand]

Don't you just hate people who think they're trying to be helpful, but really aren't? Like we all don't worry enough and need something else to worry about? My sitter tells me all the time how some of the things DS does are EXACTLY like her nephew, who is autistic. Yeah, I don't so much want or need to hear that. We're doing the best we can!

Like the PP said, I would take the swim instructor's advice with a grain of salt. Especially if you weren't so concerned already and have already asked his teacher, who actually sees him on a regular basis!

If you ARE worried though, an evaluation by someone who is actually trained to work with autistic spectrum kids is a way better option. Kids can be stubborn and throw tantrums and have selective hearing (all signs of PDDs including autism BTW), and that can totally just be because they're two or three or four...it can also be a symptom of something else, but unless you're really trained to see that something else, I don't think you can know. And telling a parent that a characteristic is an autistic sign seems horrible to me. Without a professional background she cannot diagnose and it seems very irresponsible to say something like that to a parent! I'm not completely unbiased here since we've been going through something similar and I'll get off my mini-soapbox now, but if it's something that you find concerning, by all means have a professional check out your son. If you aren't/weren't concerned until the swim instructor mentioned it...ignore her!

Debbie
http://b3.lilypie.com/WT7Im4/.png[/img] (][img)

[Lynnie]

Thanks.

Sorry you are going through somthing similar.

I may just have it checked out - can't hurt to have it ruled out, and if there is a little something "off" for lack of a better word, better to know earlier. I never in a million years thought "autism" but I have noticed differences between him and his brother. but of course, they are different people... I am different from my husband, and my own siblings in a lot of ways. DS does seem to focus better now, and I rarely have times where I feel that he is off in his own world and not really connecting with me, but I do know what she was talking about.

Time for another sip of wine.

[niccig]

DS is 2.5 and has been going to swimming lessons since 6 months old. He used to do everything the teacher asked, EVERYTHING. Now, he won't. He won't blow bubbles, he won't jump in etc. He wants to do what he wants to do. Our swim teacher said to ride it out, and that he'll start participating again. So the fact that he just wanted to float and wouldn't move his arms, would not be a concern for me.

If you're concerned about OTHER things, then look into talking to your ped, or someone at your preschool. But unless she's trained to diagnose autistic children, I wouldn't worry about the swim teacher's opinion.

[ett]

If the preschool teacher hasn't mentioned anything about it, he should be fine. The swim teacher has only seen him for 4 classes. That's not a lot of time. You could always talk to your ped. for piece of mind.

[DebbieJ]

She's a swim teacher, not a special ed teacher.

No worries.

~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[casey118]

I think it is worth a mention to your pediatrician. You have already seen a couple of things yourself that made you question his behavior, enough to ask his teachers. Even though she is a swim teacher, I think objective observations like that might be helpful. My opinion is biased based upon my experience with DS, but for whatever it is worth, here it is.

My 2 1/2 year old was just diagnosed with very mild PDD (maybe Asperger's). Before we started on this road I could have told you some more obvious signs of autism, but didn't know the range of behaviors/symptoms consistent with the autism spectrum. It is so individualized it would be hard to know. I would have said my son was fine- shy, with speech delays and fine motor skills delays. We have a nursery class at church, and the teacher there mentioned to me that DS doesn't play/interact with other kids at all. She mentioned it a couple of times citing different scenarios. I never thought twice about it, until at a well baby check we filled out the questionnaire geared towards diagnosing autism spectrum disorders and that was one of the questions. (Obviously there were other behaviors that combined with that one that made my ped suspect an autism spectrum disorder, but I would not have recognized any of them as being problematic). Long story short, we ended up in a couple of early intervention evaluations and his test results are all on the autism spectrum.

DS goes to a daycare/preschool twice a week, and the teachers there never mentioned any "autistic" behaviors (although when asked directly they described the behaviors that were a concern). He had been evaluated twice by people who work with a lot of autistic kids for speech and motor skills delays, with no mention of potential autism. At home he seems like a totally on track verbal kid. If I hadn't been in the evaluations and seen how he behaves outside of his comfort zone, I wouldn't have believed the diagnosis.

Anyway, that is a long story about my DS to illustrate that sometimes other people see things you don't. I don't know if her delivery by diagnosis was that helpful, but it did get you thinking and matching it up with other things you have been concerned about anyway. I wouldn't panic and most likely he is fine with nothing to worry about, but you don't have anything to lose by checking it out. The way my pediatrician first phrased it- you want your child to reach his highest potential, whatever that may be, and following up earlier will only benefit him. Waiting can make it more difficult to overcome any problems he may have.

The other point in this is that no one wants to be told that there may be something wrong with your child. For me it shattered this illusion that I can make everything fine. It made it seem so much more scary to have someone say he has a "syndrome" and he is "on the specturum." The reality is that my DS is the same darling, funny, lovable little guy before and after the diagnosis. But by having the diagnosis I can help him (and me) to learn skills that will benefit him and will make life better for him.

HTH.

[Gena]

I have a 3 year old son with “mild autism� (HFA).

As you probably read on the net, kids with Autism have problems in the following areas:
1)Language problems: this can be speech delays or an odd way of talking. It can also mean not understanding what is said.
2)Social problems: can show up as a lack of eye contact, lack of affection (or overly affectionate), unable to form friendships or play with other kids.
3)Play problems and repetitive behaviors: unable to play with toys appropriately, engages in stereotypical behaviors (ie hand flapping, spinning), is unable to learn from play, LACK of imagination.

From what you have written, it looks like your child has none of these issues. If you are worried, there is a good online assessment tool (and a lot of good info) at:
http://www.childbrain.com/pddq6.shtml

I don’t think you should be upset that the swim teacher raised the issue. There is a lot of pressure to identify kids with autism early so that they can get treatment as soon as possible. It’s ok for her to say “this is what I see and I think you should know�. Just remember that she sees him for a short time in one, very limited setting. But if you have several people in different settings telling you they are concerned, then you need to be more worried. But it never hurts to talk to your ped about it.

I hope that helps.

[BeachBum]

*I did not read the other responses*

If my swim teacher told me she thought that about my kiddo, I'd think she was full of ####.
But, if what she said really made you worry then that makes me think that you've wondered yourself if DS might have an issue of some sort. If this is the case then I absolutely think that you need to follow up with your ped or other service. This will settle things in your mind to know that your child is just marching to his own drummer or may actually have a medical problem.
In my opinion getting help early is the most important thing you can do. By not doing it you could be hurting him in the long run.

My SIL had several people tell her that they thought her DS was autistic. This started at about age 3. At age 8 they finally took him in for testing. He did not qualify to be labeled but did demonstrate many of the behaviors. The Dr. suggested many things for them to work on with him to help with his social skills and curb some of his odd behaviors. I just think how helpful it would have been if they would have started 5 years ago.

Try not to stress (easier said than done). But look at pursuing it as an opportunity to help your child if he needs it--or to settle it in your mind once and for all.

[hardysmom]

OK, this post is going to be all over the place. It really hit a nerve with me. Our story is too long and complicated to write out, but be assured, I know what you are feeling.

First, imaginative play is contrary to most spectrum diagnoses. Period. Of all the imformation in your post, that stands out as the biggest piece to me. So your child likes to float. To be honest, most spectum kids I know would freak out at being placed in the water in the first place.

I have 2 kids with sensory issues which can look a lot like autism, but isn't. They do things kids on the spectrum do, but for different reasons. Several people commented about DS quirkiness, fine-motor delays, etc... worked me into a tizzy.

Generally, the biggie for kids with autism, whether mild or severe, are social issues. Some can't look in people's eyes. Some just miss social cues and therefore seem a little "off" or inappropriate. That a 3 yr old is in his own world really isn't the Thing. Nor are all TOTALLY healthy 3 yr olds on the same level of social development.

There are a bunch of other things which some kids have and others don't, but I think the social issues are universal, particularly early-on before a child learns to modify behavior.

Floating without moving the arms and ignoring the swim teacher is not diagnostic criteria. That is like saying that because a lot of kids with Austism love chicken nuggets, all kids who eat too many nuggets may be on the spectrum.

I just LOVE instructors who think that because their teaching methods are not 100% effective with every child suggests that something must be wrong with the KIDS. OH, and the ones who feel the need to be helpful and tell the parents of their concerns. Love em'.

Heck, we ALL, every one of us, exibit qualities which can be found on the spectrum. I flip out if tape is stuck to my hand. I have an irrational fear of dead bugs. That your child has SOME behaviors which mimic SOME behaviors of SOME spectrum kids is the single most ridiculous basis for a diagnoses, ever.

My oldest son received a preliminary diagnosis of classic autism at one point from a well-intentioned, but very inexperienced PhD. Even though we knew her dx didn't seem on-target, it planted a seed which sent our entire family in a tail-spin. As you have probably found from your research, the list of behaviors defining autusm are HUGE and, if you are freaking out, it is pretty easy to assign motivation for a quirky 3 yr olds behaviors to specturm disorders.

Thankfully, in out case, our OT and Pediatrician stepped in and assured us that, after knowing our child for years, they did not believe he was on the spectrum. He is still quirky. I still worry.

At this point, if only to relax, ask your doctor or someone who really knows your child their opinion, but get off the computer.

Stephanie

[nov04]

I'm not real comfortable with someone who has no formal education or experience, evaluating a child in a very limited setting in a small period of time. Stephanie's 'chicken nugget' comparison resonates with me too.

I like the fact that you've already addressed this with his teacher (who actually *knows* him and been assured somewhat. If you're really concerned still, bring it up with the ped as others have mentioned.

We had a very early formal diagnosis of prenatal stroke so luckily we started EI quickly, but we're still figuring things out. I always go with my gut instinct.

[brittone2]

Like the PPs, I would not worry yourself too much over her comments. Even for professionals, sometimes it is difficult to figure out whether a child has autism, but I certainly wouldn't put a ton of weight into a swim instructor's comments. I'm sure she was trying to be helpful, but I'm not sure she went about raising her concerns in the best way.

I've worked as a PT in a pediatric aquatic PT program, including working with many kids with autism in and out of the pool. Some of them really enjoyed floating, others would totally freak out if someone tried to put them in that position in the water (pretty much like the normal variation you'd probably find among a big population of kids that age, really).

His not listening to her instructions or connecting with questions could be normal 3 year old behavior. It could be hearing related. It could be any number of things, but that coupled w/ liking to float doesn't scream autism to me.

As several PPs said, sensory issues often accompany autism, but they can also present without autism, and they can often look like some of the more stereotypical autistic behaviors.

If you feel concerned about his inward focus, etc., then perhaps you'd feel reassured if you got him evaluated. It depends on how concerned and how concerned his teachers are.

I will say that autism isn't always as easy to pick up on as many people think. There are kids on the spectrum that make great eye contact, are verbal, etc. I've seen many pediatricians and other professionals miss a diagnosis for a long time, telling parents there is nothing to worry about. Unfortunately, that can be valuable time lost. For that reason, I tend to be of the school of thought that if your mommy instincts tell you something might be a bit off, it might be beneficial to dig a little deeper. If it is nothing, it is nothing, and then you can feel pretty reassured and move on. I would say that to any parent that has concerns.

Don't lose sleep over the swim instructor's comments. Seriously. But if your mommy instincts tell you there might be something that needs checked, start by talking to your ped just to figure out if it is something that needs to be pursued further.

[Radosti]

I have Aspergers, so for a while, I was looking at every little thing DS did and worrying. I'll tell you what my ped said, "Selective hearing is not autism, he does what he wants to do. That's all part of growing up." And you know what. I am blessed with a funny, highly social kiddo. He plays well with others at daycare. He's not afraid to join in the fun. But he can also play by himself and be entertained. Tell that swim teacher to learn to adapt to different kids.

[Lynnie]

The responses and support I got from everybody was really wonderful.

Thanks!

I shared the instructor's comments with my DH and the friends we have swim lessons with, and although DH initially had a lump in the pit of his stomach, they all think she is reading too much into things. DH took him to karate class with DS1 on saturday, and the instructor there said he did great - better than most 5 year olds - and paid attention, and was fine. So, perhaps it is more selective listening.

Anyway, since we are MOVING in a little over a week, I think I am going to just keep observing him, and wait and see how he gets along in his new school when it starts, and bring it up with our pediatrician once we find one in our new home. I think its probably always good just to be aware of things, and if I keep noticing that it takes a little longer to get his attention or for him to process things, I'll probably take him somewhere to get everything checked out, just to make sure if he does have any sensory differences, I'll know best how to help him deal with them.

[cchavez]

I just wanted to chime in. I am an SLP and mom to a 4 y.o. with Sensory Processing Disorder. For the past 4 years I have worried that there was more than just sensory issues going on with my son. He was recently dismissed from our special education preschool program b/c his language skills are now within normal limits. However, I still worried about his quirky behaviord so I had the school district evaluate him for ASD. The outcome was yes, he does have some characteristics but he rarely exhibits them at school....so a child cannot be autistic in one environment (home) and not autistic in another environment (school). There has to be consistent characteristics. Whereas w/ SPD the child can do great one day or in one setting and worse on another day or setting......The psychologist told me it is not unusual for sensory kids w/ a history of dev. delays to look like they might be on the spectrum but they truly do not fit on the spectrum. We have other evaluators (OT's, dev. peds, pediatric neurologist) tell us the same thing....he really is just a very sensory child!

I think that you stating your child did great at karate is one sign that shows he can do well (great actually!) in certain settings. My son is the same way....he does great in gymnastics but not as good at swimming lessons b/c he does not like to get his face wet.