"Woman jailed for sending her kids to school..."

[Jacksmommy2b]

I am in the middle of a facebook debate and just curious if anyone read this article:

http://jezebel.com/5743836/woman-jailed-for-sending-kids-to-school

Friendly debating only please!

[crl]

Jail seems rather extreme to me. Community service would be more appropriate from my point of view. And, just a gut reaction, this doesn't seem like it should be a felony conviction. It feels more like a misdemeanor to me.

Catherine

[kijip]

If the schools are unequal and vastly different, sometimes even within the same district (that's how it is in my city for sure), it is only natural that people will mess with the rules. I am not saying it is right to mess with the rules but I understand completely that some parents (A LOT) feel they have no choice. I have a friend, a former co-worker, who rented an apartment (for the enrollment period only) near the school she wanted to be assigned to because the schools in her neighborhood were (and are) terrible. What she did was wrong, but looking at her daughter, I understand.

The disparity in public schools, which has been a long term and persistent problem, is one of our nation's deepest shames. We should all be disgusted with the varying quality of education.

[deborah_r]

I agree with Katie.

[scrooks]

I actually live in the school district this happened in and it has been big news around here. I disagree with the fact that she now can't get a job. I don't think it helps anyone by making her a convicted felon. She was trying to do the right thing. I just can't help wondering why she didn't just move into the district. I know she was in public housing which was a factor but there is affordable housing in the district.

The article leaves out some details...from what I understand there were several other families in the same situation and they either immediately disenrolled their kids when they were found out or paid the $$ owed the district back. I guess this woman kept sending her kids and just tore up the monthly bills, completely ignoring them.

[gatorsmom]

I realize this might be a little over the top, but I dont' think that woman should be prosecuted at all. After all, she was trying to get a better education for her kids. Now they are going to potentially deny her a teaching certificate? This sentence stuck with me:

"And a mom wouldn't have to face the destruction of her dreams just because she tried to help her kids achieve theirs."

Jmho.

[kijip]

I don't think a felony conviction is reasonable, she should be able to get her professional license.

[Naranjadia]

Who can we send to jail for the continued disparities between wealthy districts and poor ones? Seriously. People have been talking about overhauling the property-tax based funding model for schools for at least twenty years - longer I'm sure.

I don't condone gaming the system, but I also am not sure what this woman's other options are (or what I would do in her situation).

[roobee]

I'm new to the school thing (my DD is in kindy this year). If I knew this fall what I know now I would have done just about anything to get my DD into my school of choice - using my parents addresss, enrolling her in a local daycare to get admission preference, etc.

We're waiting to hear on the "lottery" for enrollment this fall and I'm on pins and needles, and I haven't ruled out using the daycare option if we don't win this lottery. It is a shame what is going on in our schools. I had no idea.

[crl]

I one hundred percent agree that we should all be ashamed of the the disparities in public education in this country. And I can definitely see the point of view that she was trying to do her best for her kids.

But it does seem to me like she did something wrong. And like there are reasons to discourage others from doing the same thing. Which is why I thought misdemeanor and public service made some sense. But maybe even that is overly harsh.

So, do you all think what she did was wrong at all?

Catherine

[scrooks]

I do agree with others. The disparity in public schools is awful. I think school funding is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

[kijip]

I one hundred percent agree that we should all be ashamed of the the disparities in public education in this country. And I can definitely see the point of view that she was trying to do her best for her kids.

But it does seem to me like she did something wrong. And like there are reasons to discourage others from doing the same thing. Which is why I thought misdemeanor and public service made some sense. But maybe even that is overly harsh.

So, do you all think what she did was wrong at all?

Catherine

To me this is like the classic ethics dilemma- Is it wrong to steal? Yes. It is wrong to NOT steal food to feed your kids when you have literally no other choice??? Is that an clearly answerable question?

I think what she did was wrong but it is a wrong that was a consequence of a much bigger wrong. Does that make it right? I don't claim to know. Parents don't necessarily have years to wait for the schools to improve. I think that in her situation, if I lacked the resources for another remedy, I would likely enroll elsewhere using fake papers. Would not be 100% right but I can't claim to be willing to sacrifice my children's education for pretty much anything. If this were my family, we can afford to move. Many families could not afford to move.

America is paying a price for our haves and havenots education system and I think that the price is getting higher and higher as the years roll on.

[crl]

To me this is like the classic ethics dilemma- Is it wrong to steal? Yes. It is wrong to NOT steal food to feed your kids when you have literally no other choice??? Is that an clearly answerable question?

on.

I was actually thinking of the same analogy. I am absolutely positive I would steal to feed my kids if I had no other options. And, much as I am a rule follower, I wouldn't even feel guilty about it. Heck, honestly, I think I'd steal to feed myself, though that would likely induce some guilt.

But I thought that education, while incredibly important, doesn't have the same urgency as food. I wonder what else she tried? Did she apply for transfers? Did she apply for privates with financial aid? Would she be able to home school? How bad was the school her child should have attended? Was it unsafe? Or just academically mediocre?

Catherine

[egoldber]

I one hundred percent agree that we should all be ashamed of the the disparities in public education in this country.

Absolutely.

[scrooks]

How bad was the school her child should have attended? Was it unsafe? Or just academically mediocre?



I do know that there are some excellent Akron Public Schools. I personally know people that send their kids to the district (and we seriously considered living in the district when we purchased our house). There are some bad schools too. I believe the district has an open enrollment policy, I'm just not sure how hard it is to get your kids into one of the better schools.

[Globetrotter]

The disparity in public schools, which has been a long term and persistent problem, is one of our nation's deepest shames. We should all be disgusted with the varying quality of education.

Exactly, THAT is the real crime here.

However, I do understand there need to be some rules here or things will go haywire. I know people who buy second condos in desirable districts so their kids will be able to attend those schools, and they live there during the week and go back home on the weekends! Now that's what money can buy, but for someone without money, I can see why she did it and perhaps I would do the same. I don't think it was right, but I think the punishment was harsh.

[AnnieW625]

I think what she did was wrong, but I see her point. She wants better for her children, but honestly did she do everything she could to try and get her children into better schools within the Akron district? I mean the Akron district can't be all bad (or maybe it is). Did she try to find a place to live in the other district, even if it was just a one bedroom apartment to get her kids into the other school (and they ended up staying with her dad more than her because of space)? I think that the sentence is harsh.

[azazela]

Jail is a little extreme in my opinion. I work in a school and sometimes we do have kids enroll/attend who do not live in district. If/when this is discovered, the parents are informed that their child(ren) can no longer attend this school and that they need to register in their actual district of residence. That's it. Here in NJ it is pretty clear cut in most towns, you attend school in town where you live. If you don't live here, you can't attend school here. I have never seen a parent persecuted in these cases, that's crazy.

[vludmilla]

I one hundred percent agree that we should all be ashamed of the the disparities in public education in this country. And I can definitely see the point of view that she was trying to do her best for her kids.

But it does seem to me like she did something wrong. And like there are reasons to discourage others from doing the same thing. Which is why I thought misdemeanor and public service made some sense.

So, do you all think what she did was wrong at all?

Catherine

I agree with this. I can understand where she was coming from but what she did was wrong and there needs to be some consequence for her behavior but jail time seems too harsh.

[hellokitty]

I live in OH, so this has been on the news a lot. I understand why she did what she did (the whole disparity btwn public schools), and while it is wrong, I think that her punishment was so harsh, b/c they wanted to make an example out of her. The state of OH is in an 8 billion dollar deficit. They are trying to pass a house bill to override Obama's mandate for all day kindergarten and also for our gov's requirement to reduce class sizes on top of other things to cut costs regarding education. Due to all of the issues our state is having with public education, I think they are afraid that if the punishment wasn't harsh enough, that more ppl would try to do the same thing, seeing how public schools in OH are having $ issues, so all sorts of things are being cut, and that would probably make the disparity btwn different districts even worse.

[vludmilla]

To me this is like the classic ethics dilemma- Is it wrong to steal? Yes. It is wrong to NOT steal food to feed your kids when you have literally no other choice??? Is that an clearly answerable question?

I think what she did was wrong but it is a wrong that was a consequence of a much bigger wrong. Does that make it right? I don't claim to know. Parents don't necessarily have years to wait for the schools to improve. I think that in her situation, if I lacked the resources for another remedy, I would likely enroll elsewhere using fake papers. Would not be 100% right but I can't claim to be willing to sacrifice my children's education for pretty much anything. If this were my family, we can afford to move. Many families could not afford to move.

America is paying a price for our haves and havenots education system and I think that the price is getting higher and higher as the years roll on.

I absolutely agree that there are huge disaparities in our education system and that it is a problem. I don't think that necessarily justifies this woman's actions. Some of the problems I have with what she did are that she is teaching her children to lie to get ahead in life. Her children were learning to lead a life of lying, to their frends, teachers, etcetera. If any of her children's friends found out the truth of where the kids lived then the friends would be put in the situation of needing to decide whether to uphold the lie by omission or not. Not fair to others, I think. I think it would have been much more honorable and moral to have found a very small apartment in the district that she wanted to be in and lived with less to make it work. I don't really accept the notion that there were no other options for this woman and her children. I have been poor and working poor earlier in my life and I am now comfortably middle class in a HCOL area. I know how difficult it is to try to get by on too little money but there are many creative ways around the problem of not having enough money, especially if you are savvy enough to game the system as she did. I also have a problem with what she did because it is not fair to all the other parents and children who would like to be in that district, rather than their own inferior one, but who abide the rules and are not committing fraud to get what they want. How is it fair for this woman to break the rules while the others don't.

[Jacksmommy2b]

I agree with this. I can understand where she was coming from but what she did was wrong and there needs to be some consequence for her behavior but jail time seems too harsh.

Unless like one of the PPs mentioned, she was asked to remove her children from the school or pay tuition and she decided to just keep sending them anyway.

I really don't have much sympathy for her. She decided she wanted to send her kids to a district other than their own, knowingly commited fraud to get them there and got caught.

I totally get being trapped in a crap district. We moved specifically because we were in the worst SD around even though the COL was fantastic, we liked our home and hubby's commute was a breeze. It was a struggle for us to move in a better district and had to go pretty far out and to the top of our budget to do it, but education is that important to us.

She had family in the district she wanted them to go to. If it was that important, she and the kids could have lived with family. She was living in section 8 housing, around here even an outrageously expensive area has some section 8 housing. If she was that dedicated to their education, she could have applied for scholarships and financial aid, or she could have signed them up for one of the online charter schools. Friends in our old lousy district did this when their 5 year old came home from kindy sporting a full vocabulary of sexual terms. He is in second grade now and reading at a 5th grade level.

I'm not saying its perfect or easy, but if she was that concerned, she did have options.

And as far as the ethical 'would you steal to feed your kids?'

Well, would you really steal to feed your kids?

Or, would you live with family? Apply for food stamps? Apply for free school lunches? Go to the food bank? Get a second job? Or would you just walk into McDonalds and snatch a burger off someone's plate because hey, your kids are hungry and you want them to have what the neighbors are having?

[wellyes]

If what she did is a felony, what should the consequence be for people who can afford multiple residences for a better school? If you're poor, gaming the system is a crime. If you're not, it's something people might shake their heads over a little but that's it.


However, I do think the headline is misleading and deliberately obtuse.

[kijip]

And as far as the ethical 'would you steal to feed your kids?'

Well, would you really steal to feed your kids?

Or, would you live with family? Apply for food stamps? Apply for free school lunches? Go to the food bank? Get a second job? Or would you just walk into McDonalds and snatch a burger off someone's plate because hey, your kids are hungry and you want them to have what the neighbors are having?

The question is not "would you steal" it is "would you NOT steal if you had not other options? " No friends/family, no food stamps, no food bank. I think the answer is yeah, most people would steal. If it is wrong or not, most of us would do it.

Our disparate education system is perpetuating an ever deepening and widening class disparity. That is the real issue. Having attended some bad schools and some great schools, all public, I do think that quality of education is an urgent matter. I would not be where I am today without the extremely high quality public high school I was lucky enough to be able to attend (at the time I went there, there were 4 or 5 applicants for every slot). The schools must be on the same level and they simply are not. It's a pathetic, terrible, unjust inequity.

For those that say just move... I agree that I would do that first and that it is a great idea. However, she was a student in subsidy housing. I am not. I, like most of the women on this board are lucky enough have the financial resources to live where I want to and to move if I wanted to. I would guess few of us do live or have lived in subsidy housing. The waitlist for such housing in nearly every area is long, in areas with good schools it can be literally years, if names are being taken at all. Moving when you are poor and need affordable housing is very, very hard and in some areas impossible (ie, if you have a subsidy apartment, some places won't even consider you eligible for the wait list for their apartments). Homelessness among families is growing more sharply than ever because of the ongoing recession and the fact that the recovery has not significantly benefited those hardest hit yet. As such, the wait for such housing is getting worse than ever before, right as such funding is on many municipal and state budget chopping blocks. Make no mistake, we will be seeing an even worse housing situation for very low income families than ever before, making these questions harsher and harsher as the years pass. I know, so sunny and optimistic am I tonight.

[ezcc]

I heard about this on NPR today, I don't have a ton of sympathy for her either. She cheated, was caught and was given the opportunity to either pay tuition or withdraw her child. I can't imagine she didn't have other options to pursue- a better school within her district, moving, getting a scholarship somewhere, working to improve her home school, something. She's not setting a good example for her child, is depriving her home school of her energy and talents and cheating the families in the school where she sent her child of resources that their tax dollars paid for. I agree that the disparities of schools in this country are terrible, but I live in a city that has a very poorly ranked school district- but I'm witnessing amazing things with families choosing to make a go of it, working hard to make improvements, researching other options- there are ways to make it work without cheating. Jail does seem harsh though.

[LexyLou]

Wow, can you imagine if they arrested Andrea Zuckerman's grandma? She was NOT supposed to go to Beverly Hills High. ;)

I have a friend who bought a one bedroom condo in the school district she wanted her daughter to go to. They really couldn't afford to move the family in the district and purchasing a foreclosure was way cheaper than sending her to private.

A jail-able offense? C'mon? Really? That's a bit extreme, especially considering how over burdened our jails already are.

[kijip]

However, I do think the headline is misleading and deliberately obtuse.

I agree. She was jailed for sending them to school out of her area, not for merely sending them to school.

[Dream]

I know few families who did this in New York. The reason the family can't move into the better school district is the property tax, from what I've heard, property tax for good school districts in NY is about $10,000 or more. So while you want your child to get a good education not many can afford to pay that kind of property tax. So lot of parents either get a rental property till kids start school or get utility bills under their names from friends that live is good school districts.

[vludmilla]

I know few families who did this in New York. The reason the family can't move into the better school district is the property tax, from what I've heard, property tax for good school districts in NY is about $10,000 or more. So while you want your child to get a good education not many can afford to pay that kind of property tax. So lot of parents either get a rental property till kids start school or get utility bills under their names from friends that live is good school districts.

I live in the NY suburbs that you are talking about and there are virtually no single family homes with 10k in taxes, more like 15k for a small, outdated, and old home. The problem I have with people in lower COL areas gaming the system to get into my school district without paying the taxes is that they usually could pay for a rental in my area but they would rather keep their lower cost of living (and bigger, nicer) home/apartment. I have chosen to have a much smaller, modest home in order to be able to live in a better school district. I don't appreciate the people who choose to try to have it both ways. Of course, I don't particularly think this was the case in the Ohio case but it certainly is the case in my area often enough. In the Ohio case, it seems that the woman could have possibly chosen to live at her father's home, unless it was a studio apartment.

[crl]

I know few families who did this in New York. The reason the family can't move into the better school district is the property tax, from what I've heard, property tax for good school districts in NY is about $10,000 or more. So while you want your child to get a good education not many can afford to pay that kind of property tax. So lot of parents either get a rental property till kids start school or get utility bills under their names from friends that live is good school districts.

But isn't the reason the schools are so good those high property taxes? So too many free riders and those schools will be dragged down. School funding is obviously a huge problem all around in this country.

Catherine

[bubbaray]

I'm really appalled that this would be considered a felony. This woman has tried to better her circumstance by getting teaching qualifications and now that is likely in jeopardy. She did what she did to try to better her childrens' circumstance. I just can not believe that the judicial system wouldn't have some compassion. At most, this should be a misdemeanour. I can't believe some prosecutor wasted his/her time on this.

[Melbel]

A few thoughts...

I agree that the felony conviction and jail time seems excessive based upon the facts we know. One thing to keep in mind, however, is that the judge had much more information available than we do. The news media is going to spin the facts in order to create a sensational story. An article I read stated that when she was confronted about the issue, she filed fraudulent documents in court (both from her and her dad), which is likely what elevated the severity of the crime. If she had simply left the improper district when confronted, it is likely that she would not have been charged with any crime.

Overall, before passing judgment, I would want to know what efforts she took to live in the proper district and exactly how bad her legal school was. What exactly were her options? FWIW, my high school did not have a very good graduation rate, let alone college graduate rate. I would have liked to go to the "better" high school in town that happened to be closer to my home, but we followed the rules. I was able to make the most of my situation by attending advanced and honors classes. While our education system is far from perfect, there are still amazing opportunities in less than stellar schools.

As such, I respectfully disagree with the analogy that her actions were tantamount to a parent stealing food for their child to prevent them from starving. While it truly is unfortunate that there is such a disparity between schools, anarchy (lying, cheating and committing a fraud on the court) is not the way to remedy the situation. That being said, I think a misdemeanor would have been sufficient punishment.

[bubbaray]

An article I read stated that when she was confronted about the issue, she filed fraudulent documents in court (both from her and her dad), which is likely what elevated the severity of the crime.


OK, well, now I understand the felony issue then. Being found guilty of filing fraudulent documents in court here = contempt of court, which is prosecuted like a felony is in the US (ie., serious offence).

I take back my earlier post. If she filed fraudulent documents in court, she should get jail time. JMHO.

[Melbel]

OK, well, now I understand the felony issue then. Being found guilty of filing fraudulent documents in court here = contempt of court, which is prosecuted like a felony is in the US (ie., serious offence).

I take back my earlier post. If she filed fraudulent documents in court, she should get jail time. JMHO.

I am not certain that is why it was a felony, but it would make sense. Another thought I had was that the amount of the fraud ($30,000 according to the school district) would be at a felony level.

[MontrealMum]

I know a number of students that this happend to (not the jail time, the attending school out of district) back when I was a student in the 70s/80s. I can't even imagine what it's like nowadays with all the disparities.

I can't really comment on what she should or shouldn't have done as that article is just so short but I do agree with Katie that it's not as simple as "she should have moved".

But again, back when I was in school, there were plots of land that were for sale in the "good" district - for those of you in the know the *real* setting of the movie American Pie. These plots of land weren't large enough to build a house, but they were large enough to legally qualify the purchaser to send their kids to school in that district - which was much wealthier (due to the tax base) and ranked higher academically - than the surrounding mid-sized city. People have been working the system for a long time. Mind you, when I was in school you used to also be able to pay a fee to send your kid out of district to my GATE highschool in that same, larger city. I don't think that this was an option for the "normal" schools, however.

[hwin708]

This was very common at my public high school. Parents would use family/friends/etc addresses to send their teens to my VERY highly ranked public high school. And no, moving to my district was not an option for many of them. It is a very sharply divided community, with very high cost of living/low crime neighborhoods, and very low cost of living/high crime neighborhoods. Not a very workable solution for lower middle class families. Not to mention, despite having a great public high school, the public elementary schools were some of the worst in the country. So what do you do then - sacrifice your younger children's education, or your older?
Anyway, it was a pretty widespread tactic, but officials rarely cracked down on it. If parents were that dedicated to sending their kids to a good school, chances are they were the kind of academically-focused parents the school felt was necessary to maintain their excellent results.

I'm surprised to see so many people say she should have moved. Do people really think it is that easy to find and move in section 8 housing??? Really??? I have a friend who works with finding people housing, and I assure you, it is no easy job. There are many times when she has no housing available, period, nevertheless housing for people who just want to move a district over.

And while I understand people's complaints that she's teaching her kids to lie, she is also ensuring that they are taught to read. To write. To add. Etc etc. While it would certainly be nice to only set the greatest example for your kids and focus on all aspects of their development equally, I would hope that people would have some understanding that that is a luxury.

[maestramommy]

Wow, I didn't know it was such a serious thing. I've heard of this happening a lot in SoCal, but I thought if you were caught your kid would just get kicked out. Jail time? Wow.

[wellyes]

FWIW, my high school did not have a very good graduation rate, let alone college graduate rate. I would have liked to go to the "better" high school in town that happened to be closer to my home, but we followed the rules. I was able to make the most of my situation by attending advanced and honors classes. While our education system is far from perfect, there are still amazing opportunities in less than stellar schools.
I don't think schools that have functional advanced and honors programs are that bad. My poor rural school district growing up didn't have those options. Another factor - the woman said she felt like her home district school was not safe. The distances between great school districts, middling ones, poor ones and poverty-striken ones are vast.

[azazela]

Wow, can you imagine if they arrested Andrea Zuckerman's grandma? She was NOT supposed to go to Beverly Hills High. ;)

:hysterical:

[maestramommy]

I'm surprised to see so many people say she should have moved. Do people really think it is that easy to find and move in section 8 housing??? Really??? I have a friend who works with finding people housing, and I assure you, it is no easy job. There are many times when she has no housing available, period, nevertheless housing for people who just want to move a district over.


Wow, was she living in Section 8 housing? I was listening to an NPR program on Section 8 housing a few months ago. It is SO HARD to get housing. You could be on the list for years in some cases. The main problem is that there just isn't enough public housing to go around. If she was already living in public housing, I don't know if she could've just moved over.

OT, but I saw Hellokitty's post that Obama had a mandate for all-day K. Really?? Why haven't I heard this? I don't think our state has heard either! We're one of the few that doesn't have a state mandate for K period.

[Melbel]

Wow, I didn't know it was such a serious thing. I've heard of this happening a lot in SoCal, but I thought if you were caught your kid would just get kicked out. Jail time? Wow.

Based upon what I read, it sounded as though she received jail time because she perpetuated the fraud once she was caught, including filing fraudulent documents in court. In addition, I think that schools are cracking down more due to the fact that most schools are cash strapped these days and families who are cheating the system are depleting limited resources for those who did play by the rules.

I don't think schools that have functional advanced and honors programs are that bad. My poor rural school district growing up didn't have those options. Another factor - the woman said she felt like her home district school was not safe. The distances between great school districts, middling ones, poor ones and poverty-striken ones are vast.

As mentioned above, I am reserving judgment until I know all of the facts. We do not know if the assigned school had a functioning honor system or not (more likely than not, there was a program in a metro area). We do not know if she had magnet school opportunities, whether she could have lived with her dad, or what other reasonable, legal options were available. Regardless, while I truly empathize with her position, I still have a problem with committing a fraud on the court, which she did, after getting caught.

[wellyes]

Sounds like it was a special zeal from the prosecutor's office for this case:
Judge says prosecutors rejected lesser charges in Copley schools residency case (http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/114346689.html)

[muskiesusan]

Overall, before passing judgment, I would want to know what efforts she took to live in the proper district and exactly how bad her legal school was. What exactly were her options?

I am wondering about her efforts as well. I am not from that part of the state, but there are districts in Ohio with open enrollment. Also, if you attend public school that is rated in Academic Emergency or Academic Watch for two of the past three years you can apply for a voucher to pay for private school (I think it a bit over $4000 for elementary and $5000 for high school).

It is long past due for Ohio to do something about school funding.

[Melbel]

Sounds like it was a special zeal from the prosecutor's office for this case:
Judge says prosecutors rejected lesser charges in Copley schools residency case (http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/114346689.html)

It is a shame that they did not reach a plea agreement for a misdemeanor. The judge really threw the prosecutor under the bus. I figure the judge was receiving a lot of heat and spoke out which is highly unusual IME. Her conviction warranted at least a 5 year sentence which was reduced to 10 days, so she was at least shown some leniency. In addition, it appears as though she may not have to lose her teaching license:


Cosgrove said Williams-Bolar's nonviolent felony offenses do not necessarily mean that she will lose her teaching certificate. She said Ohio law only states that a felony conviction ''may'' be grounds for such action.

The judge said the Ohio Department of Education will hold a hearing and make the final decision ''whether or not they will revoke her license.''
...
Cosgrove said her reading of the statute leaves open the possibility Williams-Bolar can be a teacher ''because she was not convicted of an offense of violence [or] offenses of moral turpitude.''

Because Williams-Bolar had no previous felony record, Cosgrove said she will write a letter to the state Board of Education asking that Williams-Bolar's license not be revoked.

''I will do everything I can, as far as sending a letter, asking them not to consider it,'' the judge said.

Cosgrove also indicated she would consider expunging the felony conviction if Williams-Bolar successfully completes a minimum of six months of probation.

''I suspect she will,'' the judge said.


This is an interesting topic of discussion.

[WolfpackMom]

I understand her wanting her child to go to the better school, but she shouldn't have perpetuated the issue by contempt! The punishment is a bit harsh for the crime, and I hope she can still get her teaching license - how is she going to make money and get her family in a better economic situation if they are blocking her from advancing forward.

Its all kinds of complex where we live and right now there is a MAJOR battle going on with the school board...you may have seen them on The Colbert Report. Right now a lot of people do find ways to cheat the system, my SIL did it by giving the address of a rental property my ILs own. A very loud minority want neighborhood schools, currently we have a system that is broken up to account for economic diversity. Our county became known nationally for building this system and advancing within it. I am a product of a high school and my friends and I turned out pretty good I would say - we also are a diverse group of people from all different walks of life.

Anyways, kind of corresponding into earlier posts, its not as simple as moving. I can't stand that argument, which is getting thrown around in our district a bunch "if you dont like it move," "if you dont like the school you should have worked harder to make more money," "those families deserve the bad schools, they didnt work hard" (no lie you should read the comments on the news websites).

I understand the desire to have one's kid at a school right by their home rather than bussing and that it would be upsetting to not be able to get a seat in the school one wants because there isnt room (we see that all the time on this board), I also understand wanting to do everything in one's power to get their child into an excellent school (again, seen all the time on here). For me, personally, I don't want my kid at a school that is all white and upper class, I also don't want him at a school that is all working-poor where he is the minority. There is no happy medium without assigning children with economic make up as a factor and its pains me when I hear people so ready to leave those less fortunate in the dust. jmho

[scrooks]

As an update...from what I read in the newspaper yesterday she is also being investigated by the housing authority to find out where she really lived. Additionally there was some question about where she voted.

[scrooks]

It is long past due for Ohio to do something about school funding.
:yeahthat:
It's so hard watching levy after levy fail in certain communities. The kids end up suffering!

[MamaMolly]

If what she did is a felony, what should the consequence be for people who can afford multiple residences for a better school? If you're poor, gaming the system is a crime. If you're not, it's something people might shake their heads over a little but that's it.


However, I do think the headline is misleading and deliberately obtuse.

But aren't people who buy multiple houses in order to get into a better district following the rules? Don't they pay property taxes in those areas? I don't think it is gaming the system if you pay for it. And this mom was given the option of paying for the better school too.

I'm not saying she could afford it, but I don't think the 2 issues actually compare when held up side by side.

I feel for this mom, but I think she handled things badly. It also sounds like she's being made an example of, and that isn't right either. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[WolfpackMom]

But aren't people who buy multiple houses in order to get into a better district following the rules? Don't they pay property taxes in those areas? I don't think it is gaming the system if you pay for it. And this mom was given the option of paying for the better school too.


Well its gaming the system if you don't actually live in the home. Typically assignment would have to do with residence not just owning a property.

[wellyes]

But aren't people who buy multiple houses in order to get into a better district following the rules? Don't they pay property taxes in those areas? I don't think it is gaming the system if you pay for it. And this mom was given the option of paying for the better school too.

I'm not saying she could afford it, but I don't think the 2 issues actually compare when held up side by side.That's kind of my point, though. People with money have many options that help them play by the rules, people without do not, or have far fewer. Some might say: that's fair, the person with money earned it by smart choices and working hard. But how is that fair to the kids? Should a 1st grader's opportunity to go to a safe and decent school be determined by her parent's income? And aside from the issue of fairness - I think this is how inequality perpetrates itself, and all evidence says that income and education disparity is not a positive social or economic good.

I think most people would agree that kids SHOULD have equal opportunity. No one knows how to get it, and this lady's solution was not a good one, it's true. It is a frustrating situation.

[photini_@yahoo.com]

I'm torn. On the one hand, the economic inequality of schools is astounding. In our school district, the half day kindergartners get art, music, science and PE once a week. They have their own garden and organic food for lunch. A school in the neighboring district's elementary has its own 1 acre nature area and offers Spanish and Mandarin.

On the other hand, as a teacher she should have known better. Once she was detected, she should have either chosen to establish legal residency with her father or should have withdrawn the girls. This happens every year in good school districts, and most of the time the kids are turned in by fellow students who are upset that they didn't get into a needed AP class or a position in band. In this economy, even good schools are cutting programs and resources are scarce.

In regards to the felony, it doesn't bother me. Twelve people unanimously decided in 1 day that she provided a fraudulent affidavit to school authorities after she had been confronted about residency. Whether it was a felony or misdemeanor, it would be very hard for her to get through a background check for teaching with a fraud conviction.

Christine W

[dcmom2b3]

Caveats: I haven't read everything posted, nor do I trust media reports of legal matters to contain everything that I'd want to know in evaluating the fairness of a disposition. I'm also a tight-assed judgmental wench when it comes to issues of dishonesty/gaming the system because of my upbringing and the job I do (prosecuting other lawyers' ethics violations, many of which stem from self-interested dishonesty). And with all of that . . .

Without evidence that her children would have been in physical danger in their assigned school, I think she deserves the consequences of her actions. Period. Wanting a better education for her children doesn't excuse dishonest and/or fraudulent behavior. Ever. Nor do the awful inequities of our nation's educational system (or any of our nation's inequities) justify lying. Ever. And if one decides to go that route, one should be prepared to serve jail time (if that's what state law provides for) or lose one's ability to obtain a license -- to teach, to practice law, to operate a hot dog cart.

Bunny can read Chaucer or learn the proper conjugation of the verb "to be" at any point in what I hope will be a long, long life. I can supplement at home to make up for her school's educational deficits. We can read, we can drill, we can practice. We can talk about things, go places and "do [free] stuff". I can (and will) teach myself in order to teach my child. (Remind me of this last sentence when Bunny is taking Calculus, okay?)

But I have only one shot at teaching the Bunny to be scrupulously honest especially when it's not in her own (narrowly defined) interest to be that way. I cannot correct the gaps in character that my bad examples create, so I really try to keep those to a minimum. And IMO, lying to obtain a benefit is a huge, indelible, awful, bad example, no matter how laudable the end game. And, if it was the case in the Akron situation that she was lying to the court to cover up her earlier lies . . . well, let's just say it's something that threatens to make my head explode. (I told you, I'm rigid on honesty issues.)

I think I've posted at length about my frustrations with DC public schools (which are generally quite bad, but with a handful of shining examples -- I have every incentive to do what the lady in Akron did). So, I hope that you all know that I'm not speaking from a comfortable ivory tower of uniformly groovy public schools.

There probably are, however, other towers that shape my perspective, but those don't cost anything to climb, IMO. My father told me that when you lie/cheat/steal to get what "they" have, you've become the person that "they" want to think you are, and you'll be treated accordingly. This situation seems to indicate that he had a point.

[bisous]

Wow DCMom2b3 I loved your whole post! (Can you tell I can't quote??) That is my impression as well.

Just to weigh in on the whole "Would you steal food for your starving children" scenario I don't personally think that is an apt description of what this woman did. Her neighborhood school may be wonder bread and she wanted Ezekiel bread for them. A good inclination but the way she went about was inappropriate completely.

I do think that jail seems harsh. I'm sorry, too, that she won't get her teaching credential but also think I would prefer that my child NOT be instructed by someone's who's moral compass is so clearly out of whack!

[fivi2]

I'm sorry, too, that she won't get her teaching credential but also think I would prefer that my child NOT be instructed by someone's who's moral compass is so clearly out of whack!

I agree with your whole post, and M-H's, but I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned so far.

I cannot imagine someone who (allegedly) has committed all kinds of fraud and lying being allowed to teach my child. If it was just sending her kids, and she backed down when caught - *maybe* - but (allegedly) submitting false documents, lying to the court, etc etc? I am fine with the punishment if all of that is true.

I get that the education system is broken. But I don't think stealing from other people's kids (and cheating the kids in your district out of the money they'd get for your kids) is the way to fix it.