Has anybody got social skills help for their DC?

[kozachka]

DS has been in trouble and after school care a LOT in 2nd grade at at the new (as of May '10) school. He is by far the youngest in the class and has not been 'accepted' by the other boys. DS likes to be in charge and it's not working. Not to mention that they have formed friendships in K and 1st grade. The situation is even worse in after school program where there are no boys his age, and he's been bullied/picked on by a clique of 8-9 year old boys who've been together for a few years. So DS has been acting out and fooling around to get attention, any kind of attention. He's been to the principals office more than I knew, apparently, including for the violent language. So several weeks ago DH and I had a meeting with his teacher, after school program director, principal and psycologist. We went over all the wonderful things about DS and areas for improvement. We worked out a plan and are executing on it, and DH behavior seem to be slowly improving. School psycologist is also working with DS, primarily to help him deal with impulses and manage anger. Yeah... my 7 year old.

After the school psycologist met with DS twice she told us that he is a pleasure in one-on-one interactions but group interactions are very hard for him. They played a game with two other kids and DS had difficulty following the rules, holding back impulsive thoughts, and just letting the game go and not need to be in control or need to win. So she thinks that DS needs some really significant help with social skills that she probably won't be able to provide in the limited time that they have together.

Unfortunately, I don't think either of the two programs that the school psycologist suggested would work for us. One sounds like it would be a great match but they only work with kids in 3rd grade or higher (DS is in 2nd grade and really should be in 1st grade based on his social skills). And the other program sounds too clinical/severe. The only group that is sort-of a good match for DS is 5-7 year old kids with ADHD-like and/or sensory integration symptoms, and DS does not have either. Plus, in my opinion, DS needs help in socializing with kids his age or older, since he is doing OK with younger kids already. Not to mention that it meets at 4:00 PM and I leave work at 5:15-5:20 PM at the earliest and barely make it in time to pick DS up from after-school program. This is just more area where I feel punished for being a working parent, but that's topic for another forum.

So I am wondering if anybody has any experience with such programs, and if so, whether my concerns about the 2nd program are valid or not. Are there any other ways I can help DS gain social skills? We have already signed him up for basketball, the only team sport that's available at his school right after the classes. I've also scheduled playdate with a boy from his class, but am having trouble calendering another one due to schedule conflicts. There is only so much I can do WOH with DH gone out of the country 2/3 of the time. DS is also very involved with martial arts and swimming on week-ends, but psycologist said it's a good thing since he has friends at the studio and treats it as part of his family.

DS is such a social butterfly, he is funny, talkative (maybe too talkative) and engaging, that I find this difficult to process, but I know that he needs help. Please don't quote me as I will delete this post after a few days.

[marylovesbennyhill]

One thing that they have my DD do at her school is to "help" a younger child with a task. It gives her a sense of responsibility and pride:)

[zoestargrove]

I'm really sorry to hear the difficulties your son is having at school. It really sounds like to me, that the best bet for this to work is not only individual help for your son, but also for the class.

My friend is a 2nd grade teacher and they've implemented a program, that at first was designed for children with autism I think - but, they've had wonderful success with all the children in the school.

It uses comic strip characters, the main character is a super hero and his name is Superflex. He is totally flexible and tries to figure out people's wants and needs to keep other people calm. He is up against a group of "Unthinkables" These bad guys have powers that overcome brains...for example, Rock Brain will get the person to do only what HE wants and will not negotiate. She told me that for each unthinkable, she offers and the students brainstorm about strategies when you have been overtaken by one. She says the children in her class have embraced this entirely. Here is the website. You might want to purchase the kit or suggest it to the pyschologist or Occupational Therapist at your son's school.

http://www.socialthinking.com/

Kelly

[vludmilla]

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I think you can absolutely help your son. You can make sure to play more games at home with specific goals in mind...how to win and lose in a nice way, how to take turns, how to be a leader and be a follower. You can teach these ideas explicitly and even make the connection with him that these are skills he needs to master to get along with the older boys. I'd also consider ways to turn around the bullying thing. I can't be sure that this would work in your son's situation but it is possible that he is being teased because the other kids have perceived his relatively less developed social skills and because of the reaction that they get out of him. If you start developing his social skills and he stops reacting to their teasing, things could turn around. It doesn't always happen, but I've definitely seen this happen. Another idea is to have the adults supervising the boys, "catch" the older boys teasing your son and then deal with them firmly.

[gamma]

I agree with all the strategies for helping your son, but I would also want to be assured that the school and after school program are working with the other children and adults also. Even if you make progress with your son, a pattern of behavior develops with all participants, so I think everyone involved needs to work on changing their behavior and responses.

[pinkmomagain]

I am wondering if there is a way for the school psychologist to "push-in" during recess (which I'm assuming is where much of the social interaction is happening) so that she can help him in the setting he is having trouble in?

[SnuggleBuggles]

Ds1 takes some classes at school with other kids in his grade and really likes it. I opted out of the ones at the psychologists' office b/c it was for kids who were really, really struggling. My ds is right there on the border and really just needed a tiny bit of help. I'd try the one at school even though the kids are older. It's easy enough to start there and see how it works as it is no extra work for you to make it happen, kwim?

Beth

[egoldber]

My older DD is in a social skills class. Personally, I would not discount the group that is for ADHD/sensory kids. The girls in her group have a variety of issues: SPD, ADHD, anxiety, etc. as well as those with no specific diagnosis. But if you met or dealt with any of them one on one, you would not dream that any of them had any issues.

More important, IMO, is the focus of the curriculum. The traits you describe as causing issues for your DS (inflexibility, obsessive rule following, not being able to let things go) are EXACTLY the things that all these kids have in common and that cause social issues at school.

We have done one on one therapy for older DD and the social skills group. Both are helpful, but we have found that the social skills group has had a DRAMATIC impact on her social acceptance and ability to deal with social situations. I think a well run group with a proven curriculum is a big deal for these kids. The presence of an experienced psychologist who specifically facilitates the interaction with the kids is also crucial IMO.

I think it is also a HUGE plus for kids to see that they are not the only kids who struggle with these things. They may feel like they are, but being in the group really normalizes their struggles. They see that there are other kids just like them who struggle to make friends and with the social stuff that so many kids seem to get.

Also, as far as after care goes, you may want to consider alternatives to the after care. My older DD was also bullied by cliques in the after care at her old school. There is just a lot less supervision and the kids are at loose ends, vs being in directed activities. We switched her to a different after care that has more options for classes and monitored activities (vs just free play) and that works a lot better for her.

This is the class she is in: http://www.insteppc.com/stepping_stones You can look at the site to get a feel for the focus of the curriculum and the kind of things they work on.

Feel free to PM me for more info.

[egoldber]

FWIW, I Googled "social skills groups silicon valley" and got a lot of hits. So I would look around to see if there are groups that may be more convenient for you.

And the link the PP gave for socialthinking.com, that group has a therapy practice in San Jose and offers social skills classes there.

[kozachka]

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I think you can absolutely help your son. You can make sure to play more games at home with specific goals in mind...how to win and lose in a nice way, how to take turns, how to be a leader and be a follower. You can teach these ideas explicitly and even make the connection with him that these are skills he needs to master to get along with the older boys. I'd also consider ways to turn around the bullying thing. I can't be sure that this would work in your son's situation but it is possible that he is being teased because the other kids have perceived his relatively less developed social skills and because of the reaction that they get out of him. If you start developing his social skills and he stops reacting to their teasing, things could turn around. It doesn't always happen, but I've definitely seen this happen. Another idea is to have the adults supervising the boys, "catch" the older boys teasing your son and then deal with them firmly.

Thank you for your suggestions, Ludmila. I will try to incorporate them into our daily life. DS has been making progress both in class and in the after-school care program, and we've been actively working on the issue for only 2-3 weeks.

DS has been bullied/excluded by boys at the after school care, and adults have been aware of the problem for a few months now. We were not aware of it until DH saw the older boy punch DS in the stomach when DH came to pick DS up. DS had a cast on his arm at the time, I was appaled that anybody would do that. Apparently, DS liked the boy who hit him and did not tell us about issues with him prior to that. I am also guessing that DS was annoying the heck out of that boy trying to become his friend. There has been no hitting since then, but the boy and his clique have been mean to DS, both verbally and borderline-physically (e.g. poking him, trying to trip him etc.) I've told DS to ignore these boys and not feed into fire, but it's easier said then done at 7. He has been feeling lonely (he is a super social child), bottling up his anger and inevitably blowing up from time to time.

I think DS got picked on because he is an outsider (another girl who has recently moved to US from Japan and does not speak good English has been also picked on) and because of his age. There are literally no boys his age in the group. He's been playing either by himself or with younger kids. Teachers try to make sure he is not getting picked on, but they can't make other boys like DS and play with him.

Interestingly, couple days ago DS told me that he became friends with an older boy at the after school program, and now the bully and his clique want to be friends with him because of that. I am not sure I am buying it and DS said that he "does not trust" this boy who has been bullying him, but apparently today they all played together nicely. I wonder why after all these months the older boy decided to befriend DS, and if teachers asked him to help or not, but I am happy that DS is not lonely.

[kozachka]

FWIW, I Googled "social skills groups silicon valley" and got a lot of hits. So I would look around to see if there are groups that may be more convenient for you.

And the link the PP gave for socialthinking.com, that group has a therapy practice in San Jose and offers social skills classes there.

Beth, thank you so much for your long and candid post above, and for doing the search for us. There are plenty of programs here, but I feel more comfortable with a referral. I called the place that I liked but that DS was too young for and could not start at untill fall, and the owner will refer me to two of her colleagues who run groups for younger kids. Plus school psychologist has reached out to her district colleagues, and they suggested a few more places, one good not far from where we live. Keeping my fingers crossed that one of these options would be a good fit for DS.

[HannaAddict]

My child's school has "social thinking" as part of their curriculum, taught by a fabulous, amazing OT. I had never heard of an OT IRL, meaning aside from these boards, but she is an incredible resource. Her help on handwriting alone made my child's life far less frustrating. The OT has a "recess group" play group outside of school, with kids from various backgrounds (some ADHD, some just immature, etc. - the gamut), and we've seen it make an amazing difference in kids. I was skeptical at first. But it really gives ideas and a vocabulary and skills to kids that they need now versus having the luxury of growing into. There is so much pressure on kids now, they do in K what I did in second or third grade, writing journal, multiplication, whole day kindergarten with no nap on a cot and on and on!

The book series the school uses is "Super Flex" and my son likes the stories, gets the message and internalizes it - as in telling his younger sister not to let "rock brain," a bad guy, take over her brain when she is having a melt down. He goes to a private school but it is just a secular, selective, small class size school and not designed for kids with issues, but recognizes that social skills are skills and that kids need assistance. FWIW, our neighborhood public school, a top school in the state, also has social thinking curriculum and similar program. If you want more info, PM me. HTH. :)

[egoldber]

I hope you find a good fit for yuor son! Really, group has been one of the best things we have ever done for DD. She loves group, loves going, and it has helped her so much.

The other thing I will mention is that our group has a simultaneous running parent session. At first I thought that was a nuisance :o , but really, it is wonderful. It is so refreshing for *me* to be with a group of parents that really get it. That understand that you can work really, really hard with a kid, do all the "right things" and still have a kid that struggles. There is so much judgment out there from other parents when your kid struggles socially. A parent who has kids who do not have these issues often think that it is all bad parenting.

It is such a relief to be with other parents whose kids have the same problems. We give each other tips. We share stories of struggle and also the little successes. The therapist in our group gives us articles and tips as well. We've gotten suggestions for dealing with homework, playdate drama, etc. So if you can find a place with a parent group, see that as a positive. :)

[spunkybaby]

Sending you some :hug5:

Yes, I've been sending my DD1 to social skills classes this year. She is in first grade and was having some friendship difficulties at school. She has friends and playdates and is invited to birthday parties, etc. But I was worried that her friends would eventually tire of some of her behaviors and not want to play with her (which is kind of what happened with at least one girl).

She is in a weekly half-hour group at school with the school counselor. However, I decided to supplement this with an after-school social skills group. She just finished a 14-week session and has come a long way. She is doing much better with friendships at school, and her school counselor has called me twice in the last month to rave about how much she has improved.

I am on the fence about sending her to the next 14-week session (it's quite pricey and it was very inconvenient driving her to these classes), but I'm definitely glad that I decided to send her for the first session, in spite of the inconvenience.

I hope you are able to find a social skills group for your DS, but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. :hug5:

p.s. I also wanted to give you some suggestions on resources that we have used with DD1:
(1) A Discovery Toys game called Friendship Island (http://www.discoverytoyslink.com/esuite/control/product;jsessionid=9FFDD93817764FA6A9FE90871AE2510 A.dtes81?URCHASE_STATE=STANDARD&product_id=4321) teaches social skills (it was written by a counselor)
(2) Kimochis (http://www.kimochis.com/)--toys with feelings
(3) A book called Little Girls Can Be Mean: Four Steps to Bully-Proof Girls in the Early Grades (http://www.amazon.com/Little-Girls-Can-Mean-Bully-proof/dp/0312615523) (This was very helpful to *me*, but obviously, not as applicable to your DS).

I also bought DD1 some American Girl books, like Friends: Making Them and Keeping Them (http://www.amazon.com/Friends-Making-Them-Keeping-American/dp/1593691548/ref=pd_sim_b_3). Reading this book helped DD1 understand more concepts, especially the idea of needing a "circle of friends" and not being too clingy to any one friend.

ETA: The social skills class that DD1 attended did not have a parents' group attached, but it was really nice to be able to talk to the other moms in the waiting room. We were able to share our struggles and victories and felt less alone. I'm sure Beth's parents' group was even better since it was facilitated, but I wanted to let you know that just finding yourself in the same room as other parents with similar issues is helpful.

[gordo]

As a school social worker I am a little surprised that the psychologists is saying she can't work with him. To me his issues seem exactly like the kind I would want to address in school. I agree with pushing-in at recess or free time play in the classroom as well as individual work with him to teach him the skills he needs. Maybe there is a lot more to it, but it doesn't sound like a situation that I would refer out for. And I would seriously talk with the after care about what they are going to do about the bullying!!! Good luck and I hope you find something that works.

[egoldber]

Not the OP, but while our school counselor does social skills groups, they are generally very limited in time, often cancelled for school events or conflicts and don't necessarily group kids with similar ages/issues together (depending on the size of the school). Our school counselors are also not always licensed clinicians.

Our school psychologists don't do these types of interventions. They mainly do testing, assessments and they run all IEP/504 meetings. And they are generally half time and shared between schools. I think it was a good thing for her to refer out if she did not feel she could meet his needs.

PP, thanks for the Girls Can be Mean book rec! I just ordered it. :)

[jse107]

Not the OP, but while our school counselor does social skills groups, they are generally very limited in time, often cancelled for school events or conflicts and don't necessarily group kids with similar ages/issues together (depending on the size of the school). Our school counselors are also not always licensed clinicians.

Our school psychologists don't do these types of interventions. They mainly do testing, assessments and they run all IEP/504 meetings. And they are generally half time and shared between schools. I think it was a good thing for her to refer out if she did not feel she could meet his needs.

PP, thanks for the Girls Can be Mean book rec! I just ordered it. :)

As a school counselor (on lunch break), I'd just add that I am limited because I am not allowed by my administrator to pull kids during instructional time. When we do meet, we are VERY limited on time.

[spunkybaby]

Not the OP, but while our school counselor does social skills groups, they are generally very limited in time, often cancelled for school events or conflicts and don't necessarily group kids with similar ages/issues together (depending on the size of the school). Our school counselors are also not always licensed clinicians.

Our school psychologists don't do these types of interventions. They mainly do testing, assessments and they run all IEP/504 meetings. And they are generally half time and shared between schools. I think it was a good thing for her to refer out if she did not feel she could meet his needs.

PP, thanks for the Girls Can be Mean book rec! I just ordered it. :)

Yes, the half-hour weekly school group is great, but the counselor admits that it's not enough time, and the group often gets cancelled because of different school events. And when you count walking to the counselor's office, getting settled, etc. it's really more like 25 minutes or less.

Beth--Hope you like the book. I read a recommendation for it in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/fashion/10Cultural.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=little+girls+can+be+mean&st=nyt) last fall. It has been very helpful to me because there are real-life examples (and sometimes you see the viewpoint from the "bully" and realize that there was more going on than you thought!)

For any other moms of girls interested in social skills development, I am also keeping tabs on the Girls Leadership Institute (http://www.girlsleadershipinstitute.org). DD1 is still too young for most of the programs, but I am hoping to sign her up for the 2/3 parent/daughter workshop next year.

[spunkybaby]

As a school counselor (on lunch break), I'd just add that I am limited because I am not allowed by my administrator to pull kids during instructional time. When we do meet, we are VERY limited on time.

Our school counselor is allowed to pull out the kids during class time (not sure if it's instructional time), but I know it's a headache for her to arrange all the schedules for the different grades, needs, etc.

Honestly, I am *so* thankful for our school counselor (and afraid that she will be cut next year because of budget cuts). You make a huge difference--thank you!:cheerleader1::cheerleader1:

[ha98ed14]

Not the OP, but while our school counselor does social skills groups, they are generally very limited in time, often cancelled for school events or conflicts and don't necessarily group kids with similar ages/issues together (depending on the size of the school). Our school counselors are also not always licensed clinicians.

Our school psychologists don't do these types of interventions. They mainly do testing, assessments and they run all IEP/504 meetings. And they are generally half time and shared between schools. I think it was a good thing for her to refer out if she did not feel she could meet his needs.



:yeahthat: :yeahthat:

The role of school "psychologists" is not to be confused with a clinical psychologist, and a school "counselor" is not to be confused with a LCSW/MDW or lic. marriage and family therapist. OP, I think you are in CA. In schools in CA, the terms "Psychologist" and "Counselor" are the titles of different education credentials. They are not certified or regulated by any mental health professional organizations. They are certified by the California Commission of Teacher Credentialing (CCTC), whose primary concern is teacher credentials/ certifications, not mental health. It's akin to letting a PE teacher or coach act as a physical therapist. They can show you different stretches to help with an injury, but they are not real, professional advice on the injury. BUT at the same time the people holding Sch. Psych and Sch. Counselor credentials are professionals. They deal with the children whose needs and/ or behaviors cannot be met in the classroom. OP, I cringed when I read your post. I hear about kids with issues like you son's. These situations do not have happy endings without major intervention. If the school professionals recommended these programs, please consider them seriously. More time socializing with other children is not a substitute for behavioral therapy. Given more time with other children, DS may just end up repeating the social interactions that have landed him in the principals office thereby solidifying them and making them harder to un-learn. I hope you can find him the help he needs to be an emotionally healthy person with good boundaries.

[spunkybaby]

OP, I cringed when I read your post. I hear about kids with issues like you son's. These situations do not have happy endings without major intervention. If the school professionals recommended these programs, please consider them seriously. More time socializing with other children is not a substitute for behavioral therapy. Given more time with other children, DS may just end up repeating the social interactions that have landed him in the principals office thereby solidifying them and making them harder to un-learn. I hope you can find him the help he needs to be an emotionally healthy person with good boundaries.

I hesitated quite a bit before signing up DD1 for social skills classes this year. It seemed like a lot of things she could just learn and develop as she matures. But I ended up deciding that earlier intervention/help would be better. The younger kids are more forgiving right now of DD1's social lapses, but I think they will be less forgiving as the kids get older, and I did not want her to end up being ostracized in any way.

OP--I'm sure it's been hard on your DS with being in a new school/culture/language and also being on the younger side. Sending you more :hug: I hope you are able to find some groups that work for your DS. I totally get the inconvenience factor (and wow! these classes are expensive!), but honestly, I think it's worth it.

[kozachka]

OP, I cringed when I read your post. I hear about kids with issues like you son's. These situations do not have happy endings without major intervention. If the school professionals recommended these programs, please consider them seriously. More time socializing with other children is not a substitute for behavioral therapy. Given more time with other children, DS may just end up repeating the social interactions that have landed him in the principals office thereby solidifying them and making them harder to un-learn. I hope you can find him the help he needs to be an emotionally healthy person with good boundaries.

We are definitely going to enroll DS into a professional social skills groups. At this point it's a matter of finding one that is a good fit for his needs and age. I do also want to know what we can do to help DS in the meantime, and once he starts working with the group.

[gordo]

I guess I am lucky at my job. I am able to meet with students whenever I need to, especially students who are really struggling. I have many students I see for an hour week because their social/emotional issues are important and everyone recognizes that they need the help. I am also an LCSW, so I do feel I am qualified to deal with these issues. Yes I have a lot of meetings, but am almost always able to make up missed sessions with my most serious kids or those with minutes on their IEPs. I didn't mean to minimize the situation and if this is not the way your school works, then yes, you should look into outside resources. I hope your finding something great and worthwhile for your son!

[vludmilla]

:yeahthat: :yeahthat:

The role of school "psychologists" is not to be confused with a clinical psychologist, and a school "counselor" is not to be confused with a LCSW/MDW or lic. marriage and family therapist. OP, I think you are in CA. In schools in CA, the terms "Psychologist" and "Counselor" are the titles of different education credentials. They are not certified or regulated by any mental health professional organizations. They are certified by the California Commission of Teacher Credentialing (CCTC), whose primary concern is teacher credentials/ certifications, not mental health. It's akin to letting a PE teacher or coach act as a physical therapist. They can show you different stretches to help with an injury, but they are not real, professional advice on the injury. BUT at the same time the people holding Sch. Psych and Sch. Counselor credentials are professionals. They deal with the children whose needs and/ or behaviors cannot be met in the classroom. OP, I cringed when I read your post. I hear about kids with issues like you son's. These situations do not have happy endings without major intervention. If the school professionals recommended these programs, please consider them seriously. More time socializing with other children is not a substitute for behavioral therapy. Given more time with other children, DS may just end up repeating the social interactions that have landed him in the principals office thereby solidifying them and making them harder to un-learn. I hope you can find him the help he needs to be an emotionally healthy person with good boundaries.

I am in NY so things may be different here but many, many school psychologists are licensed psychologists and the license is not an education credential but rather the same license as any other psychologist or social worker. I will be licensed in one year as a doctoral level psychologist and I am also a school psychologist. I am most certainly both a school professional and a well qualified mental health clinician. I will eventually be practicing privately as would a clinical psychologist. I am by no means the exception. I would be disappointed to think that someone thought my knowledge of mental health issues was akin to a PE teacher's knowledge of physical therapy. This is not an apt analogy in my opinion.

[egoldber]

One thing I like about the place I take my DD for therapy and the social skills group is that many of the therapists on staff are school psychologists in our district (but not her school obviously). So they know the system and the curriculum very well, which has been very helpful. And they are all PsyDs or LCSWs. But they don't really do therapy during the day. They do testing, assessment and 504/IEP meetings. They do therapy at night in private practice.

In our district the people who do most of the day to day intervention (groups, etc.) are the school counselors, who are generally not licensed mental health clinicians. Some are I believe, but most are not.