Is this a problem? I feel like it is...

[ha98ed14]

DD was coming down the hallway with her bedtime book and talking to herself... "Eany Meany Miney Moe, Catch a tiger by the toe..." I asked her where she learned it and she said ClassmateA taught her. How do I explain why this is NOT okay to say?!? I'm offended by it because of where it comes from.

On the flip side, DD's teacher told her that saying "Girlfriend!" was not okay. I often call DD "Girlfriend" as in "Come on Girlfriend, catch up!" when I want her to hurry up and follow me. Or "Work it, Girlfriend!" when she's dancing around the house. Or "Watch it, Girlfriend!" as in you are pushing the limit of my patience. DD understands it. I see nothing wrong with with it, but the I think the teacher must see it as having an "attitude". (DD called a classmate "Girlfriend", not the teacher.)

How black or white do you see this gray area?

[crayonblue]

I didn't realize there was any controversy surrounding Eany, meany. Just googled it. This is a very common little rhyme in elementary school. DD has been saying it for years.

I don't think anything of saying "Girlfriend!"

[mjmamma]

I get the Eany Miney you are referring to (I think). The version that was chanted when we were children was not cool, though we didn't know it. It is, thankfully, not the version my children learned. Some of the sayings that were commonly said in the 70's were awful.

[Minnifer]

Re "eany, meany", I was aware of the history, but didn't realize it could still be controversial to say the tiger version.

I can see how "girlfriend!" can sound pretty lippy, but can also be used jokingly - maybe coming from a kid the joking nuance is lost and it can just sound fresh?

[SnuggleBuggles]

I can see how "girlfriend!" can sound pretty lippy, but can also be used jokingly - maybe coming from a kid the joking nuance is lost and it can just sound fresh?
:yeahthat:

I don;t know the controversy re. eannie meannie so it doesn't bug me.

Beth

[DietCokeLover]

Had no idea there was anything offensive about eany meany. I had to go to Wikipedia to see what the issue could be. I've never heard the controversial version - and I am from the deep south.

I think "girlfriend" could sound sassy, but it's all in the delivery and to whom it's being said.

[sarahsthreads]

Had no idea there was anything offensive about eany meany. I had to go to Wikipedia to see what the issue could be. I've never heard the controversial version - and I am from the deep south.

I think "girlfriend" could sound sassy, but it's all in the delivery and to whom it's being said.

:yeahthat:

I had never heard the controversial version in my life!

I often call DDs "babe", which I've gotten some odd looks over. It wouldn't bother me, though, if either DD was told not to use the word "babe" in the classroom - though I don't know that either of them has ever used it themselves.

Sarah :)

[mjs64]

Wow. I wasn't aware of the rhyme's racist history until I just now did some research. Not sure if I'll avoid it. A lot, a lot of nursery rhymes have racist, classist, misogynistic, and homophobic histories. Truth is, that's the history of Western culture. Makes it tough.

Another reason someone might be offended by the use of "girlfriend" is that it could be understood as an appropriation of African American culture by whites/non-African Americans. I'm not offended, but I could understand that perspective.

[BayGirl2]

Really had no idea there was a racist version of this rhyme. I wouldn't be bothered by it, I don't think most people know of the potential historical tie in. And I think a kid saying it in the "new" way is totally not offensive. There are no words in that even suggest racism the way I have heard/used it.

According to the Wikipedia detail a SWA flight attendent was sued for racism for using an improvised version of it! Nothing racist in the words she used, just something like "pick a seat its time to go". I can see many people making that "mistake" with no ill intentions and inadvertently offending someone. Like PP said, there's so much in our culture that comes from negative origins but has been watered down or cleaned up, I don't think the average person can keep track of all of it nor should it all be banned from our current lexicon.

[roseyloxs]

Really had no idea there was a racist version of this rhyme. I wouldn't be bothered by it, I don't think most people know of the potential historical tie in. And I think a kid saying it in the "new" way is totally not offensive. There are no words in that even suggest racism the way I have heard/used it.

According to the Wikipedia detail a SWA flight attendent was sued for racism for using an improvised version of it! Nothing racist in the words she used, just something like "pick a seat its time to go". I can see many people making that "mistake" with no ill intentions and inadvertently offending someone. Like PP said, there's so much in our culture that comes from negative origins but has been watered down or cleaned up, I don't think the average person can keep track of all of it nor should it all be banned from our current lexicon.

:yeahthat: Can't believe that lawsuit made it to court. How ridiculous!

[niccig]

DS learnt the tiger version at preschool. I think even some teachers use it. So that's not going to go away. She won't know the racist version.

The 'girlfriend' isn't an issue for me. It could be time for the talk for "you can say this to Mummy, but some people may not like being called girlfriend." DS and I have had versions of this conversation after he announced some private things to parents at his school...gotta love kids and no filter of what's private and what's public.

[essnce629]

Never heard of the controversial version either and had to look it up!

[Melaine]

I don't think it's a problem because I never heard the bad version. It's safe to say our kids' generation won't know about it at all. I agree with pp that if we cut out everything that has ever had a history of offensive meanings or politically incorrect wording we'd lose an enormous chunk of literature.

[Pennylane]

I also have never heard of the controversy surrounding this rhyme. My DC use it and I don't have a problem with it.

On the other hand I can't stand "Girlfriend" . I think it sounds so sassy to hear a child say it and I don't like when parents say it to their DC. She isn't your girlfriend, she's your daughter.

Ann

[Canna]

I have no problem with Eeny Meeny either and was unfamiliar with its less savory history. The only versions I ever heard growing up in Texas in the 1970s were:
- catch a tiger by the toe if he hollars let him go...
- catch a tiger by the toe if he hollars make him pay $50 every day...
I would not make an issue with this.

NOW "Girlfriend" would bother me because it comes across (to me) as potentially fresh/sassy or trying to be inappropriately cool/urban slang. However, lots of adults must not agree with me because DD's kindergarten teacher used it when casually addressing students all the time (as I might use a term like "sweetie" or something like that)! It didn't exactly bother me, but I found it surprising and not my style. I have never heard my DD repeat it.

[TwinFoxes]

I definitely knew the original version of the rhyme, but I learned it through classes, not from the schoolyard. That said, it's pretty arcane at this point and doesn't bother me. Any number of folk songs had the word "darkie" or worse in them, but we probably don't know it

Girlfriend sounds sassy to me, but I'd think the teacher would hear far worse.

[Melaine]

On the other hand I can't stand "Girlfriend" . I think it sounds so sassy to hear a child say it and I don't like when parents say it to their DC. She isn't your girlfriend, she's your daughter.

Ann

That's interesting. I really never thought of it that way. I mean, other nicknames used for children are technically "not" for them. My kids are not my sweethearts, for instance. DH is my only sweetheart, technically. I really never thought anyone would be bothered by people using that term for their children. I wonder in what context the teacher was bothered by the word. It totally depends on the delivery, IMO.

[KrisM]

I also have never heard of the controversy surrounding this rhyme. My DC use it and I don't have a problem with it.

On the other hand I can't stand "Girlfriend" . I think it sounds so sassy to hear a child say it and I don't like when parents say it to their DC. She isn't your girlfriend, she's your daughter.

Ann

:yeahthat:

[wellyes]

I know the history but don't find the Tiger version offensive at all.

This kind of reminds me of how we used to sit Indian style but now kids sit criss cross applesauce.

[Seitvonzu]

i sorta remembered the controversial version after you said something....but think nothing of the tiger version.

on "girlfriend"-- my daughter is an only child, and can't be a little , er... bossy, at times. my husband jokingly will say "yes master!" as he complies, in a silly voice. the other day, i made a request and she said "yes master!" -- not cool! it wasn't in a mean voice, i totally knew where it was coming from, but....if she did it in public? ack! so i can kinda see where the "girlfriend" thing, even if it wasn't sassy might just rub someone the wrong way.... if their perspective is already "sassy" or "backtalk" on that term, they just might nip it in the bud entirely.

which reminds me ... now that my child is over 2 months old (she's nearly 4), i might want to stop calling her "lover." *eyeroll* (my husband HATES this) we do call people "friend" in a generic sense (i picked this up when i was working in our public schools), and have noticed that my daughter will say "hello friend!" to random, child, strangers. this has been pretty successful in general (i.e., not embarrasing) except the one time an older child felt the need to say "i am NOT your friend!" *sigh*

[ha98ed14]

THANK YOU for these perspectives. Knowing that no one else is thinking of the racist version of this rhyme when they hear a DC say it makes all the difference. I still find it offensive, but DH told me chastising DD for saying the tiger version is going to lead to telling her about the other version, which is not something I want her to know about at 4. DD will have to know WHY it is bad.

It's interesting people's feelings about the Girlfriend thing. I let DD call me that if we are joking around and all is well. I don't let her use it to be sassy. I don't think merely saying it is sassy. As others have said, it is all in the delivery. FWIW, DH told DD (and me) that if the teacher did not like it, DD should not use it at school. She can use it at home with mommy.