Who to ask for grad. school recommendation

[niccig]

I need to ask my professors for grad school recommendation. I was hoping the professor that sees my for voice therapy would do so, but she says she can't write about my academic work as haven't had her as a professor yet, so I should ask someone whose class I've had. She said she'll write a letter about my vocal performance.

I need 2 references. My options are

1. Professor had for this semester. I have a good rapport with her - she isn't the most organized eg. needs a few reminders to post things to our class web page.. I'm sitting on a 97-98% in her class.

2. Professor from last semester, head of program, my adviser - Always late for class or meetings as he's Chair of the program and very busy. I got a 99% in his class.

3. Professor from this semester - he knows my name, I answer questions in class, but doesn't know me well. Very organized and chair of the graduate selection committee. So far, I have 95% in his class.


I think I should go with 1 and 2 and hope they get it done in time. It's not due until Jan 11, I can give them the package on Monday.

[Liziz]

I agree with you -- go for one and two. For recommendations, it's always better when you have someone that actually knows you. And if I were you, i wouldn't feel bad about reminding/checking in with the professors to make sure it gets done (just don't go overboard!). Even disorganized profs are used to letter of recommendation deadlines if they've been in academia for awhile.

[larig]

I would go for whomever has the most clout. Who has the better research published. In other words whose name will mean something to grad school admission people.

If you're trying to get into grad school where you are currently attending, WHICH of these people would you want for an advisor. They usually pick you. The faculty all read the applications and then they kind of pick teams (at least that's how they did it at my grad school--but we were a research heavy place, grad students were there to be research assistants).

ETA: I think choosing your recs can be hugely political.

[mjs64]

I agree with you -- go for one and two. For recommendations, it's always better when you have someone that actually knows you. And if I were you, i wouldn't feel bad about reminding/checking in with the professors to make sure it gets done (just don't go overboard!). Even disorganized profs are used to letter of recommendation deadlines if they've been in academia for awhile.

:yeahthat: exactly, and do send a reminder. And a thank you note. Ive done this twice now (for MA and PhD). If you end up thinking you may do it again (phd, another ms) go to grad school thinking early on about potential recommenders, forming personal relationships with people with clout. Clout matters but so does a letter that reflects the fact that you've worked with the person. It's very easy to tell the difference between a form letter (which every prof has on file, as part of the job is writing recs) and a letter that's specific.

If possible, I would also send along a cv/resume and a letter of application to the recommenders, after they've agreed, so they have mire to write about. Ask if they would mind. And ask them ASAP. In my dept (am finishing a PhD) 6 weeks notice is the norm. Don't panic, but do ask by next Monday.

Send them a reminder at the end of december. I know I said this but it is so so important and not rude.

Eta: form relationships with people with clout regardless of your intention to continue in academia, as these people will be your recommenders for the job market

[rin]

I agree with larig, although in either case I would include #2. IMO it seems surprising if an applicant DOESN'T get a letter of recommendation from his/her adviser.

Also, don't feel at all bad about giving your referees reminders. When I'm asking for an academic letter of support/reference I generally first ask them (of course :)), then they'll get the official request from the application, then I'll email them a few weeks before the deadline reminding them of the deadline in a casual way and asking if I can provide any materials as background for their letter (for something like a grad school app people often want to see your personal statement, something that gives them some background on how you're presenting yourself). If they still haven't submitted the letter a few days before the deadline I would email and just check in, say that the deadline's coming up and you wanted to make sure that you've given them everything they need to write the letter. Honestly, academic folks are very used to writing letters of reference (it's part of the job), and busy professors won't mind polite reminders about deadlines.

[mjs64]

in either case I would include #2. IMO it seems surprising if an applicant DOESN'T get a letter of recommendation from his/her adviser.

:yeahthat:

[new_mommy25]

I'll echo what everyone else said and say that I think #1 and #2 sound like a good choices.

A week or two before the deadline send them both a thank you card thanking them for the recommendation. That will jog their memory if they haven't sent it yet. :) A professor gave me that advice awhile back and it's worked well for me.

[hoodlims]

If possible, I would also send along a cv/resume and a letter of application to the recommenders, after they've agreed, so they have mire to write about. Ask if they would mind. And ask them ASAP. In my dept (am finishing a PhD) 6 weeks notice is the norm. Don't panic, but do ask by next Monday.


So important! I write letters of recommendation for students applying to colleges and for scholarships and half the time I am racking my brain thinking of what to say about them that isn't cliche, or that someone else might say about them. So having a frame of reference (no matter how well they know you) is very helpful.

[niccig]

Thanks for the advice.

I'll see one professor tomorrow and I'll ask at the office about the Chair of the Program. We've been told to do up an information packet - brief couple of paragraphs about yourself with photo. I've cut down my resume to 1 page and I'll add that too.

I'm hoping the anatomy professor who I know has research students, looks at my resume and things "reference librarian, I want her to help with my research."

One more question - there's an option on the form that I have to give to the professors to check if I do or do not waive my rights to see the recommendation form - I'm assuming after you've submitted the application to the department. Why is this there?

[mjs64]

Waive your rights! It's just standard in academia. The assumption is that if someone has agreed to write a letter, it will be positive. The prof you didn't take a course from who would not write you one is kind of an example of this--she's basically saying she wouldn't be able to write you a good letter. You must, must, do this. Otherwise, it will be awkward and you won't get as good of a letter. LORs are confidential in academia, unlike in the "real world." Trust me, please! I've written letters for lots of undergrads, and when they don't waive their rights I'm put off from the start. I'm not alone, believe me.

ETA: And don't cut down your resume too much--just stuff that doesn't apply to your new goal. In academia, CVs are the standard and are much longer than resumes. Google the difference between the 2 to get an idea. Would write more but am up too late.

[niccig]

Waive your rights! It's just standard in academia. The assumption is that if someone has agreed to write a letter, it will be positive. The prof you didn't take a course from who would not write you one is kind of an example of this--she's basically saying she wouldn't be able to write you a good letter. You must, must, do this. Otherwise, it will be awkward and you won't get as good of a letter. LORs are confidential in academia, unlike in the "real world." Trust me, please! I've written letters for lots of undergrads, and when they don't waive their rights I'm put off from the start. I'm not alone, believe me.

ETA: And don't cut down your resume too much--just stuff that doesn't apply to your new goal. In academia, CVs are the standard and are much longer than resumes. Google the difference between the 2 to get an idea. Would write more but am up too late.

Thanks...I was leaning towards waiving my rights - it's supposed to be confidential, hence them putting it in a sealed envelope that I have provided.

Don't cut it down? I have a number of versions of my CV. A one page, 2 page and then an academic resume I used for academic library jobs that goes for pages and lists every class I taught. I'm retraining for a different field, so some of it is not relevant. They didn't ask for a resume, so I don't want to give too much in the packet. I do want them to realise that my prior work (research in particular) could be very useful.

[mjs64]

Sorry, one more thing, because LORs are SO important. The Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com) is the source for all of these questions. A better source than the BBB, and the gold standard for academia. Go to the forums there and search for things like "LOR" and grad school apps. I am *positive* they will corroborate what I'm telling you.

I realize I sound like a know-it-all. It's just that I wish so much I had known this stuff when I was doing what you are doing. All my best to you. You are going to be great. I know you've invested a lot already.

[mjs64]

Thanks...I was leaning towards waiving my rights - it's supposed to be confidential, hence them putting it in a sealed envelope that I have provided.

Don't cut it down? I have a number of versions of my CV. A one page, 2 page and then an academic resume I used for academic library jobs that goes for pages and lists every class I taught. I'm retraining for a different field, so some of it is not relevant. They didn't ask for a resume, so I don't want to give too much in the packet. I do want them to realise that my prior work (research in particular) could be very useful.

Include everything you think is relevant. Don't limit yourself to one page necessarily. Use a CV format and not a resume format (with "objective," etc.).

ETA: List those classes you taught! If it's really, really long, try to list them on a single line. Like for me, I write for courses I've taught multiple times the course, followed by the semesters taught. But list them. My CV is 4 pages, single spaced. The goal of the CV is to establish your credibility as a scholar, so length *can* actually be a good thing. I wouldn't list jobs at McDonald's or anything, but it sounds like a lot of your experience is very relevant. Look at sample CVs. Oh, I hope you get some turkey time in this weekend.

[niccig]

Sorry, one more thing, because LORs are SO important. The Chronicle of Higher Education (http://chronicle.com) is the source for all of these questions. A better source than the BBB, and the gold standard for academia. Go to the forums there and search for things like "LOR" and grad school apps. I am *positive* they will corroborate what I'm telling you.

I realize I sound like a know-it-all. It's just that I wish so much I had known this stuff when I was doing what you are doing. All my best to you. You are going to be great. I know you've invested a lot already.

Not a know-it-all at all. Thanks so much. I'll check out the Chronicle of Higher Ed. Didn't think to look there. I'm going to ask the professors tomorrow and prepare my packet of information to give them on Monday.

[mytwosons]

You've gotten great advice.

It sounds like you are worried the profs might drop the ball and forget to submit the LOR. I work in academia and I haven't yet heard of this happening. They will most likely put it off until the very last minute, but they understand how important these LOR are and will get them done. That does't mean you shouldn't remind them!

[swissair81]

Wow, I wish that I only had to get recommendations from professors. I'm pulling straight A's in my program, and that would be so easy. For me, I need to get one from a professor, and either 2 others from previous supervisors or 1 from a supervisor and 1 from a APRN (Advanced Practice RN) that I have shadowed. I haven't worked in 5 years, so getting a rec from a supervisor is sure to be loads of fun (never mind the fact that my first supervisor hated everyone as a rule and my second appears to have gotten a new job). And finding an APRN to shadow is just another headache for me. I hate to admit it, but I hate making phone calls- especially to people I don't know.

[sste]

Although I try hard for everyone the truth is that I write the best recs for students who make it easy for me to write a great rec letter. What I mean by this is that they provide me in hard copy - - ideally stapled or in a folder as there is no overestimating disorganization! - - 1) a description of what the student is applying to - - ideally a paragraph highlighted or taken from the program's materials (not nec if your profs all know the program); 2) CV; 3) it is very helpful IMO provide a one page bullet-pointed write up of some of the things you have done that you think have best prepared you for the specific thing you are applying for - -the thing with a cv is that is chrono and it might not include things that are very relevant to an application or it might not provide enough detail. When you provide this bulleted one-pager you are in a sense writing your own letter for yourself because those things will almost certain find their way into your letter :) ; 4) transcript.

And again stapled! :)

[squimp]

I would go for whomever has the most clout. Who has the better research published. In other words whose name will mean something to grad school admission people.

This can backfire if they write a mediocre or bad letter. A letter saying "this candidate is mediocre" from a really high powered scientist is much worse than a glowing letter from someone the search committee doesn't know. I have been on faculty search committees and seen this first hand.

You want the person who knows you well and who will write the most glowing letter. You want glowing letters. And yes you want to send the letter writer a CV or resume and a copy of the position(s) you are applying for, and send them all at once, not piecemeal, and give them lots of time.

[niccig]

Thanks everyone. I'll definitely get everything together this weekend and STAPLE it, then give to the professors on Monday.

One professor I asked 2 weeks ago and she said emphatically "Yes".

I asked my anatomy professor today and she said Yes, then told me she's looking for some students for a project next semester. I then mentioned that I was reference librarian, and she said "well that project doesn't require research, but I do have another project too. I'll email you about it." - So that sounds promising LofR if she wants me to work on some projects.

I asked the school secretary about the Chair of the Department. She said if it's for this program, he'll get it done. But for other schools, to have a back-up - so I'll do that.