UPDATE #17 and 33: At a loss re: DS1 and school

[lmwbasye]

Trying to keep this fairly short. DS1 has always had challenges and is a quirky child. When we moved here last year, we opted to put him in a local Montessori school and it was like magic for him last year. He flourished in the primary program (Kindergarten). This year has been different.

The first half of the year has been okay. I had some issues in the beginning regarding them assigning homework both in excess (esp. for Montessori) and above his frustrational level. The work has definitely increased and I would expect this for first grade. While, he hasn't been on level, he's been okay and at least working hard.

DH returned from deployment last month. Ever since, DS has had some major separation anxiety (esp. with regards to DH) and some of his challenging behaviors have increased at home (tantrums and fits, excessive crying, feeling super sad). We have been working on trying to get with a therapist for this. School has also said that he's a bit distracted while there.

DH and I opted to set up a conference this week to discuss our concerns that DS is not on track with reading and spelling in particular. The teachers were fine to discuss it and so we went in yesterday. Well, we ended up walking out with a myriad of concerns from them. They said he's not on track at all and is not progressing at all. Apparently, he's doing things like hiding under his desk, "shooting" at friends and teachers, and playing with tissues constantly (even stuffing them in his ears). He's also refusing to work. They said this is all a huge distraction to the class. This was all news to us (other than his being behind). We did mention that one student in particular is bullying DS (according to him) and is a concern because DS now is not wanting to go because he's worried about this student. They basically brushed that concern off. They then handed us a list at the end of the day documenting all these behaviors throughout the day.

While I don't condone his lack of working or his distracting behavior, I'm worried about him. We made sure we got a counseling session set up for next week, talked with DS about the shooting and tissues, and sent him in with ear plugs (since he said it's too loud to focus...he's always had sensory issues). Well, the teacher came out early with him to carpool. She said that he was okay in the morning but after lunch was horrid. At one point, they said he crawled under the jackets to read a book. After a bit, he started screaming profanities about the book?! I believe them and this really concerns me because last month this was my sweet rule follower who would never say these words and now he's at this extreme with all these behaviors. Also, I understand they have more students they need to focus on but I'm also frustrated about their lack of understanding for what he's dealing with. They never have once offered a suggestion for how to help him either with reading or behavior other than to send home homework. They basically come across as wanting us to fix it but I find it hard to help him without physically being in the classroom. We asked about reading resource type instruction and they said they didn't know what would be available out of the classroom. They basically don't seem to know how to handle a child out of the "standard norm".

So, we are at the point of considering homeschooling or looking to the public school for the rest of the year. I'm not sure what to do to help my kiddo and am really at a loss.

I guess I'm looking for input or to see if anyone else has moved a child mid-year and how it worked out. If it factors in at all, we are waiting to find out if we are going to be moving in the summer or if we are staying and DH is deploying again (long story).

Thanks so much for any insight you might have.

[pinkmomagain]

Sounds like your ds has legitimate issues that are dictating his behaviors (maybe something along the lines of anxiety or attention problems) and the teachers don't know how best to handle it. Teachers don't always know how to handle kids who might not fall into the "norm." I think the fact that you are going to a counselor is great. I would be looking to a professional for a dx (if there is one) and/or some suggestions for helping him that you can share with the teachers.

If it were me, and you feel like the teachers could be open to understanding the situation and taking suggestions, I'd let him stay put. If he needs some extra help I'd look into maybe finding a tutor if he really truly is that far behind for 1st grade. (I'd also try to see what 1st graders at the public school are doing to gauge your Montessori's expectations for this age.) Then I'd look to switch schools come fall, either where you are now or where you are moving. Public schools will likely have more resources to help your son than private. But that's just my opinion.

Good luck. I hope the counselor can provide you with some of the insights you need for your DS.

[jren]

I think your first step is the psychologist. My DD just completed a neuropsychological evaluation. It was very enlightening and may be a good first step. While my DD behaves perfectly at school, she does display some of the behaviors you mention at home. With a diagnosis, you'd likely be eligible for services at the public school. If he were already in public, you could request free testing from them. Regardless of whether you home school or public school, this current school is obviously not the right place for him now. I'm so sorry! I know how stressed and worried you must be for your son.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I'd see what the counselling turns up. They are likely to pick up on things that can be helped and put you in touch with the resources to do it.

I hate when they hit you with all sorts of concerns when they haven't told you they were problems. How in the world can you help if you don't know about them? I'm sorry that your ds is having a rough time. We haven't moved mid-year but I'd be open to it. It could be best all around in your case; some schools just can't provide the necessary support.

Very best of luck!

[lmwbasye]

some schools just can't provide the necessary support.

This is my concern exactly. I think the school is generally good. I believe that DS has some major issues going on and I guess I"m just worried that they are not able to handle them right now. The school is VERY small and family run so this just seems to be out of their realm.

[SkyrMommy]

I'd see what the counselling turns up. They are likely to pick up on things that can be helped and put you in touch with the resources to do it.

Maybe at some point as well, the counselor can attend a meeting with the teacher(s) to help with some suggestions. They just may not have the resources or knowledge to handle the situation.

:hug: I hope things turn around soon for your DS.

[SnuggleBuggles]

This is my concern exactly. I think the school is generally good. I believe that DS has some major issues going on and I guess I"m just worried that they are not able to handle them right now. The school is VERY small and family run so this just seems to be out of their realm.

We have btdt with ds1 and I think that we were right at the end of the line with his kindergarten. They strongly encouraged us to go to a counsellor. They never point blank said it but I think if we didn't, we would have been asked to leave. I have just found that some privates have that small box on what they expect and can handle...and I think you said that about this school. I don't think you can change ds and they won't change. I'm feeling a bit disenchanted with private schools at the moment though so I am quick on the trigger to say "go". I may not be the best for advice. (((((hugs)))))

eta- but I do stand by my earlier thought of not making any choices and see what the counsellor says.

[Indianamom2]

I am so sorry to hear about the issues you and your son are experiencing. I think the counseling session is an excellent idea and I might also suggest an evaluation by a developmental pediatrician. Counseling is fine, but the dev. pedi could potentially diagnose anything that might be going on.

As to the school issue, I'm all for private schools (DD is in one now) but their one downside is a lack of experienced help for those kids who fall outside the norm.

Can you call your local public school district and ask for an evaluation? Not 100% sure they will do that, but I think they will and that might give you somewhere to start.

Many hugs, because this is tough stuff.:hug:

[alexsmommy]

As a psychololgist, I'd also recommend a thorough check-up, blood work and see if you can think of anything that has changed in is diet or environment that he may be allergic to in an effort to rule out anything physical. I know it timed with your DH's return, but I'd still want to make sure nothing was physically changing his threshhold to deal with things. I've seen some unbelievable reactions to food (especially dye) etc in certain children.

As others have said, he has legitimate reasons to be having anxiety, which a psychological evaluation (or neuropsychological evaluation) can help you sort out.

I'm seriously concerned that you knew none of this until you initiated contact. That right there is a red flag for a bad placement, no matter what is actually going on with you DS.

[maestramommy]

I am so sorry to hear about the issues you and your son are experiencing. I think the counseling session is an excellent idea and I might also suggest an evaluation by a developmental pediatrician. Counseling is fine, but the dev. pedi could potentially diagnose anything that might be going on.

As to the school issue, I'm all for private schools (DD is in one now) but their one downside is a lack of experienced help for those kids who fall outside the norm.

Can you call your local public school district and ask for an evaluation? Not 100% sure they will do that, but I think they will and that might give you somewhere to start.

Many hugs, because this is tough stuff.:hug:

All of this. You may find that the public school will offer more resources and be able to help you get at the heart of what is going on. Also, do you think that things are made more intense by your Dh's return. I mean, I'm sure your DS is happy Daddy is home. But maybe the change is too much, too suddenly? And it's causing a lot of stress for your DS that carries over into school? :hug:

[MamaKath]

As a psychololgist, I'd also recommend a thorough check-up, blood work and see if you can think of anything that has changed in is diet or environment that he may be allergic to in an effort to rule out anything physical. I know it timed with your DH's return, but I'd still want to make sure nothing was physically changing his threshhold to deal with things. I've seen some unbelievable reactions to food (especially dye) etc in certain children.

As others have said, he has legitimate reasons to be having anxiety, which a psychological evaluation (or neuropsychological evaluation) can help you sort out.

I'm seriously concerned that you knew none of this until you initiated contact. That right there is a red flag for a bad placement, no matter what is actually going on with you DS.
ITA! I did pull my child last year when a not great placement and my traveling coupled with meds, allergy and anxiety blew up. We are homeschoolers now and while not perfect, it was the best available placement. Hugs!

[smilequeen]

Hugs. I would probably go to a counselor first and work from there.

I would not be happy with your school and I don't think I'd go back. I simply can't believe they would not tell you any of this until you actually called to request the conference!

My only concern with pulling him right now and putting him in a different school would be the stress of that change for him and possibly again in less than a year. That's a lot of change for a kid still dealing with his dad returning from a deployment. BUT...I'm not a psychologist and maybe that wouldn't be as stressful as I think it would be.

[KpbS]

If I was in your shoes, I would probably pull-him out, get him evaluated, and definitely see your ped for a thorough work-up. Personally, I'd homeschool him the remainder of the semester and follow his lead as far as academics go. With your background you have a ton of experience and I know you would do an excellent job. Sending huge hugs! :hug::hug::hug:

[Uno-Mom]

This is my concern exactly. I think the school is generally good. I believe that DS has some major issues going on and I guess I"m just worried that they are not able to handle them right now. The school is VERY small and family run so this just seems to be out of their realm. I wouldn't expect a small school to already possess expertise in your son's challenges... but I would judge based on their responsive attitude. Are they committed and willing to learn along with you, as partners? Are they willing to deal with some bumps in the road?

Sadly, it doesn't sound like it from what you describe. Or, maybe they really would be but just need a little more information. What a dilemma for you and your husband!

[sste]

As others have alluded to this cherrypicking for lack of better word easy students is a huge issue with private school and I imagine particularly if they have a large number of students to manage (which I think is typical for Montessori).

We worked with a behavior therapist this year and she was telling me that for her elementary students with more serious issues (my DS was a pretty run of the mill three year old PITA) she works collaboratively with the teachers and school on the behavior plan and serves as a resource for both parents and teachers to ask questions, brainstorm with, etc. So look for a therapist who is willing to partner with the school.

Also I might wait on moving him until you meet with the therapist. Our behavior therapist knew a surprising amount about the vibe and tolerance of different area schools for different things and she was able to advise us about school placement.

Good luck!!

[JTsMom]

I would start with an eval from a good developmental pediatrician. It took us a while to get to that step, and in hindsight, I wish we had started there. It's the best way to get a really good look at the whole picture, imo. Another thing to consider might be a neuropsychological eval, if you think there are learning issues, but I'd hold off on that b/c it might be that he's falling behind b/c of attention/sensory/whatever else reasons. You mentioned that he's always had sensory issues, and as you have probably heard, those don't often exist in a vacuum.

We homeschool b/c of DS's SN. It has been working out quite well for us. DS is doing very well academically, and it's nice that we can focus on that instead of behavior. I think if he'd been in PS all this time, I'd be getting daily phone calls, he'd be far behind, and miserable.

If you think you'd be happy homeschooling for at least a few years, I'd pull him now so that you can try to catch him up. If it's not something you really want to do though, I'd consider trying to make it work at his current school until you find out if you'll be transferring. All of that change would probably be rough. I would be really upset that they haven't been communicating their concerns to you though. When these things get ignored, they just snowball.

I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this. It can be a real emotional roller coaster. :hug:

[lmwbasye]

Thank you so much for the input. It really helps as we figure out what to do and I thought I'd give an update.

Thursday was not great. Liam got some things done in the morning (good) but then fell somehow in the classroom and hurt his ear. He screamed (he completely panics when he gets hurt) and I guess scared the teachers so they called us. DH talked to them but didn't tell them we'd pick him up. I went by the school right after and all the other kiddos were eating lunch while he had his head on his desk with an ice pack. Hopefully, he would have eaten eventually but I'm not certain.

Today was worse. They called around 10:30 and basically left a message that he's not having a good day and wanted us to come get him (BTW...this was a solution they offered at the conference when he's having a challenging day). DH called back and talked to the Director at length. Long story short, the director checked in on him and his "bad day" was him not doing work. At the time, he was not disruptive so we decided to leave him there for the time being and agreed we'd talk in the afternoon. At pickup, DH talked to the director again and it sounds like Liam was more disruptive in the afternoon but we never could get a good idea of what was going on (how was he disruptive?). This is frustrating because I can't talk to him about his behaviors if I don't know what they are.

The director sounded a bit more willing to work with us. He even offered some sort of modified schedule for Liam. That being said, I'm frustrated and concerned about their lack of knowledge in how to handle any of this. The director said they'd agree to have a counselor or outside observer come in to give us all some ideas.

In the meantime, DH and I are meeting with a counseling group next week and then Liam should be in therapy following that (so maybe 2 more weeks). We also went to the public school's diagnostician this afternoon and started the process for testing. However, that is a 60 - 90 day process so we won't have answers soon.

So, now we're at a point where we are wondering what to do. I could homeschool him, but that feels a bit overwhelming to me, personally, since I have no time to prep or research any sort of curriculum. In addition, I'm just worried that it's too much to take on with DH going back to work, his possible deployment next year, or our possible move. Not sure what to think about it all.

Another option would be the public school. The class size is not tiny (24, I think). I honestly am not sure how he would do there. His current class is Montessori (more freedom of movement) and is 34 kids (from 1st to 5th grade). They are generally in a large group (minus their individual work). Hard to describe the setup. There are 4 teachers for the large group at his current school. In some ways, I feel the public school would be able to service him better but he may not be able to handle the change.

The Director at his current school mentioned some sort of modified schedule (half days, maybe?). I might be able to work this and teach him the language arts/reading at home that he's behind in at school. Not sure what to think on that either.

So, right now, I'm just very frustrated. I cannot understand why were have so much difficulty so quickly and why this huge change. I'm at a loss for what to do while the diagnostician does testing and we wait to get him to therapy as is his school. I just want my happy, hard working, rule following little guy back where I only need to worry about the fact that he's behind in reading (the orig. reason I asked for the conference). He's just so sad so often and says he doesn't like school and that it's boring. I can't get a straight answer out of him for what is going on.

Anyway, thank you, again, for your help and response as it's made me feel a bit less alone on this whole thing. Any other ideas/input are always so appreciated.

[KpbS]

Thank you so much for the input. It really helps as we figure out what to do and I thought I'd give an update.

Thursday was not great. Liam got some things done in the morning (good) but then fell somehow in the classroom and hurt his ear. He screamed (he completely panics when he gets hurt) and I guess scared the teachers so they called us. DH talked to them but didn't tell them we'd pick him up. I went by the school right after and all the other kiddos were eating lunch while he had his head on his desk with an ice pack. Hopefully, he would have eaten eventually but I'm not certain.

Today was worse. They called around 10:30 and basically left a message that he's not having a good day and wanted us to come get him (BTW...this was a solution they offered at the conference when he's having a challenging day). DH called back and talked to the Director at length. Long story short, the director checked in on him and his "bad day" was him not doing work. At the time, he was not disruptive so we decided to leave him there for the time being and agreed we'd talk in the afternoon. At pickup, DH talked to the director again and it sounds like Liam was more disruptive in the afternoon but we never could get a good idea of what was going on (how was he disruptive?). This is frustrating because I can't talk to him about his behaviors if I don't know what they are.

The director sounded a bit more willing to work with us. He even offered some sort of modified schedule for Liam. That being said, I'm frustrated and concerned about their lack of knowledge in how to handle any of this. The director said they'd agree to have a counselor or outside observer come in to give us all some ideas.

In the meantime, DH and I are meeting with a counseling group next week and then Liam should be in therapy following that (so maybe 2 more weeks). We also went to the public school's diagnostician this afternoon and started the process for testing. However, that is a 60 - 90 day process so we won't have answers soon.

So, now we're at a point where we are wondering what to do. I could homeschool him, but that feels a bit overwhelming to me, personally, since I have no time to prep or research any sort of curriculum. In addition, I'm just worried that it's too much to take on with DH going back to work, his possible deployment next year, or our possible move. Not sure what to think about it all.

Another option would be the public school. The class size is not tiny (24, I think). I honestly am not sure how he would do there. His current class is Montessori (more freedom of movement) and is 34 kids (from 1st to 5th grade). They are generally in a large group (minus their individual work). Hard to describe the setup. There are 4 teachers for the large group at his current school. In some ways, I feel the public school would be able to service him better but he may not be able to handle the change.

The Director at his current school mentioned some sort of modified schedule (half days, maybe?). I might be able to work this and teach him the language arts/reading at home that he's behind in at school. Not sure what to think on that either.

So, right now, I'm just very frustrated. I cannot understand why were have so much difficulty so quickly and why this huge change. I'm at a loss for what to do while the diagnostician does testing and we wait to get him to therapy as is his school. I just want my happy, hard working, rule following little guy back where I only need to worry about the fact that he's behind in reading (the orig. reason I asked for the conference). He's just so sad so often and says he doesn't like school and that it's boring. I can't get a straight answer out of him for what is going on.

Anyway, thank you, again, for your help and response as it's made me feel a bit less alone on this whole thing. Any other ideas/input are always so appreciated.


This is all very curious--I would be totally frustrated with the lack of communication on the school's behalf. Are you able to communicate with the teacher directly, eg. via email? Can she help you understand what is happening in the classroom on these "bad" days? What is your DS's take on school? Does he want to continue? I would try to ask him some questions about what is happening in the classroom (get him to elaborate on the "boring") and find out what his perspective is. I think I would also float the idea of half-days by him and see what his response is. Personally, I think that sounds like a great solution--kind of a hybrid of keeping the familiar yet giving him a break from the stress and extra individual help in the afternoons.

Sending :hug: Hope your appts. go well and you can get some information to point you in the right direction. :hug:

[ha98ed14]

Today was worse. They called around 10:30 and basically left a message that he's not having a good day and wanted us to come get him (BTW...this was a solution they offered at the conference when he's having a challenging day). DH called back and talked to the Director at length. Long story short, the director checked in on him and his "bad day" was him not doing work. At the time, he was not disruptive so we decided to leave him there for the time being and agreed we'd talk in the afternoon. At pickup, DH talked to the director again and it sounds like Liam was more disruptive in the afternoon but we never could get a good idea of what was going on (how was he disruptive?). This is frustrating because I can't talk to him about his behaviors if I don't know what they are.

The director sounded a bit more willing to work with us. He even offered some sort of modified schedule for Liam. That being said, I'm frustrated and concerned about their lack of knowledge in how to handle any of this. The director said they'd agree to have a counselor or outside observer come in to give us all some ideas.



This part is a red flag for me.

The description in the original post said to me, "We can't/don't know how to deal with your son." The description of today says to me, "We don't WANT to deal with your son." Really, I think they've given up on him, or at least they had in the moment that they called you to come get him... at 10:30 in the morning... which is not even half way through the school day ...because he wasn't doing his work...

By the time you showed up at pickup, maybe they'd gathered their wits and realized that theirs was not the best response to his behavior, but the damage is done. They showed their true colors, which is that they see your son as requiring too much work, and they are not prepared to make the investment. And lucky for them, they don't have to. It's a private school, so they can just take a pass on all the kids that present with really challenging problems.

I know you said you don't want to hs him because of all the other things going on in your family life, but I think you need to pull him out of that school if only because they don't seem to care if he leaves. Who wants to be some where they aren't wanted, or where people think you are just too much trouble to bother with? Homeschool him for the rest of this year because *you* do care what is happening for him, and *you* do think he is worth being bothered for. Even if your homeschooling is not perfect, it will be better than the lukewarm response he's getting right now.

This is all my opinion, and I do tend to be very reactionary, but if this was happening to my DD, I would want her to matter more to the adults with whom she spends 6 hours/day.

[Robyn0204]

First, I'm sorry your son is having such a hard time. My husband also just returned from deployment so I know how hard this is on you and your son. I agree that seeing a psychologist is probably your best bet at this point. I have thought about us seeing someone and our adjustment is not going as rough as yours. On the issue of the school, I don't like it and I would probably pull my son if it was me. My oldest went to Montessori for 2 years, 1st and 2nd grade and it sounds nothing like where your son is going. Yes, a Montessori school will most probably always be hard for a child with sensory issues. It is loud in there during their work time. I was impressed that anyone got anything done because to me it seemed like chaos but alas they did. My son's Montessori school never send homework home. I loved that about Montessori. Also, the classes should have been divided into 1-3 and 4-6 (if it went that high), not all the kids 1-5 together. Maybe I read that wrong though. I know Montessori schools aren't all the same but there are some specific principles that Maria Montessori was adamant about in her teaching. Although plenty of schools call themselves Montessori but aren't necessarily. My son would still be going to his Montessori school if we hadn't had to PCS. Good luck and I really hope you can find the help you need. Did you by chance get on Military One-Source? They can find you a counselor for you specific needs.

[Cuckoomamma]

You all must be having such a hard time right now and feeling completely adrift at sea. It's so frustrating when you trust someone with your child and then you don't feel that they've kept you in the loop and are unable to answer your questions sufficiently.

I agree with the posters who have said that it doesn't sound like this particular school is the best for him. To be completely fair, it could be his particular teacher is tapped out. However, if the school isn't offering other solutions (sounds like they really aren't), it makes me feel that the school feels unable to give him and your family what it needs. I've taught in a public school and consider myself to be a great teacher. However, when you need to teach a group of children, you don't have the time to help children who need extra help the way you'd like to. When I say that, I mean with academics and social/emotional aspects.

Having two very intense girls, there are many social/emotional issues that take more than a few minutes here and there in order to diffuse or to restore emotional equilibrium. In a classroom, that's a really high expectation for a teacher. Of course, I think all children deserve the attention that they need in order to learn. One day they'll need a little extra explanation of something, another they'll need to completely skip over the boring exercises that they could do in their sleep, and another they'll need to dialogue to settle their emotions. The idea that children can learn their academics while being stressed out by multiple factors is a high expectation of them, imo.

All of this is to say that I think homeschooling would be a great option for your little guy. He's so young that you don't even need a curriculum! Just practice reading with him. You can incorporate basic math and writing into his life at home without a formal currriculum.

It would give you all some time to decompress. He seems so distressed, whatever the cause. It would give you time to figure things out with him. He could always return to school in a couple of years. No one knows your son as well as you do. Consult with the outside experts, but your gut will go a long way in helping him once you're able to spend more time with him at home. The experts can help you to help him.

We love homeschooling. It's much less daunting than you'd expect.

[karstmama]

an interim bit of the solution might be to ask them to video his behavior if they can do that without being intrusive with it. either one of them has a camera in their phone, or if you have a tiny camera to lend them, whatever, but that would be helpful both to you as parents trying to talk to him and for the developmental ped/therapists to see what's up.

[egoldber]

The description in the original post said to me, "We can't/don't know how to deal with your son." The description of today says to me, "We don't WANT to deal with your son." Really, I think they've given up on him, or at least they had in the moment that they called you to come get him... at 10:30 in the morning... which is not even half way through the school day ...because he wasn't doing his work...

I completely agree with this. This all says to me that they don't know how to deal with the behaviors and they are not inclined to.

I know you worry about change, but at this point, I think a shift to the public school may be a relief to him. He undoubtedly knows that the school/teacher does not like him and a change of environment often brings a great relief to kids.

My older DD was in a somewhat similar situation in third grade (the teacher did not know how to constructively deal with her outbursts or behaviors) and I was reluctant to move her to an alternative placement we had available to us. Honestly, I really regret not moving her. In retrospect, leaving her in that situation ultimately caused more harm than good.

While in general I think that homeschool can be an excellent choice, I think that for you and your family, it may not be the best choice right now. But only you can know that.

[Uno-Mom]

There isn't any way you or they can work on changing the behaviors or help the underlying problems if you can't get a clear description of the behaviors! Just no way.

I do this stuff for a living and they way they can't give you specifics... well, that sounds like they are either so overwhelmed by him that their analytical brains shut down or they can't bring themselves to put in the effort and they'd rather just have the process fail. I hope neither is true - of course I might be misunderstanding the situation.

[OKKiddo]

You all must be having such a hard time right now and feeling completely adrift at sea. It's so frustrating when you trust someone with your child and then you don't feel that they've kept you in the loop and are unable to answer your questions sufficiently.

I agree with the posters who have said that it doesn't sound like this particular school is the best for him. To be completely fair, it could be his particular teacher is tapped out. However, if the school isn't offering other solutions (sounds like they really aren't), it makes me feel that the school feels unable to give him and your family what it needs. I've taught in a public school and consider myself to be a great teacher. However, when you need to teach a group of children, you don't have the time to help children who need extra help the way you'd like to. When I say that, I mean with academics and social/emotional aspects.

Having two very intense girls, there are many social/emotional issues that take more than a few minutes here and there in order to diffuse or to restore emotional equilibrium. In a classroom, that's a really high expectation for a teacher. Of course, I think all children deserve the attention that they need in order to learn. One day they'll need a little extra explanation of something, another they'll need to completely skip over the boring exercises that they could do in their sleep, and another they'll need to dialogue to settle their emotions. The idea that children can learn their academics while being stressed out by multiple factors is a high expectation of them, imo.

All of this is to say that I think homeschooling would be a great option for your little guy. He's so young that you don't even need a curriculum! Just practice reading with him. You can incorporate basic math and writing into his life at home without a formal currriculum.

It would give you all some time to decompress. He seems so distressed, whatever the cause. It would give you time to figure things out with him. He could always return to school in a couple of years. No one knows your son as well as you do. Consult with the outside experts, but your gut will go a long way in helping him once you're able to spend more time with him at home. The experts can help you to help him.

We love homeschooling. It's much less daunting than you'd expect.


I like what she said! And you can look at www.morestarfall.com for help with the reading and math, etc. It's a subscription service but we LOVE that website. In fact, my husband bought the boys a new touch screen computer so that they can maximize the benefit of the activities without the consternation of the right click on the mouse. And if you still want a curriculum, there are many homeschool networks that could help you with that--some that you can order the entire curriculum with teaching plan already made up for you.

[JTsMom]

I think everyone has made really good points so far. Do you think that there's a possibility that he could be dyslexic, or something along those lines? The fact that he was a rule follower who was doing just fine until the more academic stuff kicked in stands out to me. A lot of times, kids who are having a hard time academically suddenly think school is "boring", and start acting out. How about ADHD, primarily inattentive? I also really like the idea of either videotaping, or observing him yourself. You might be able to tease out where the problems are stemming from better than the teachers can. In my limited experience, most people automatically want to jump to things being a behavioral issue, and I think the school is likely looking at it that way. If it's something more, they can't expect you to just fix it in a week, kwim?

As far as what to do about school, I hate to sound like I'm encouraging any on option over the others b/c you are the person who knows what's going to work best for your family. If you're intrigued by homeschooling, but just nervous about where to start, everyone here can be really helpful with that. And you wouldn't have to start out at full blast. A lot of people take some time to "de-school" and adjust. Meanwhile, we could help you come up with a plan. If you decide that's the way you want to go, let us know, and we'll help you figure things out.

If you think that's not the best fit for your family, maybe it would be better to switch now. He's unhappy, the school seems either unwilling or unable to accommodate him, and you having to go pick him up on a routine basis isn't doing anyone any favors.


The hybrid option sounds intriguing, but I'd be concerned about it making him feel even more different, kwim?

If there is a learning issue of some sort, I think you need to figure that out first. Homeschooling without that information would likely be incredibly frustrating for you both.

If you want to try to stick it out at school, if you can figure out how the disruptions are happening, maybe we can help you brainstorm some solutions. You mentioned sensory issues- how about a sensory break? I got Jason's preschool to let him go play in a rice/bean bin in a large, quiet closet when he got overwhelmed. During circle time, I encouraged them to let him sit in a separate spot so nobody was bumping into him. We used a visual schedule to help him know what to expect, and for how long. Just throwing out some stuff- don't know if any of that would work in your DS's case.

[maestramommy]

I'm sorry this is just not working out at the Montessori. Second Beth that public school may be a welcome change. You can at least try it out without having to wait, while you consider other options. My only concern with homeschooling is that with your Dh's deployments it may get to be too much for you.

[crl]

We had a very hard year with ds in preschool one year. It was apparent to me all year long that his teachers just did not get him. Yes, he was special needs, but, they were making things worse, not better. I hesitated all year long about pulling him because I felt I had no other place for him to go and because change was so hard for him. In retrospect, I really, really, really wish I had just pulled him.

I don't know what I would do in your shoes, but I encourage you to seriously consider pulling him. I felt like that option wasn't on the table for me, and that was a mistake.

I wish you all the best in figuring out where to go with all of this.

Catherine

[California]

PPs have given you great suggestions. Two other thoughts:

My DS went through a rough patch and one of the things our counselor explored was if DH and I were at odds with each other. If there's stress at home between the adults, kids become stressed. That wasn't the problem, as it turned out, but its something that stuck with me. Is there any extra tension at home as you all adjust to having your DH back? Is he a stricter disciplinarian?

One idea that comes to mind for the classroom and home would be to create a "calm down" bag and retreat for your child. If the director is willing to work with you at the school, make a bag with/for DS with stuff he picks out that is self-soothing and, most importantly, he likes (his ear plugs, a blanket, a stuffed animal, a picture book, paper and crayons-- whatever he gravitates towards.) Then help him figure out a "calm down" spot in the classroom. He can then grab his own bag and retreat to "his" spot whenever he needs to in class. At home have the same thing.

Edited to add: Thinking about this some more, excitement and being overly happy are stressful on kids. Even if you aren't at odds with your DH, your DS may have felt such excitment over his dad being back that his emotions stressed and scared him. Kids get stressed out by too many birthday presents, too much fun over the holidays-- it all seems like it should be "good stuff" but it actually can be hard on little ones. In your DS's case, if he can't verbally express that all he may be having a hard time processing it. Art and play therapy would help with that. If that is what is going on-- my heart goes out to you and your DS as you try to figure this out! Always hard to see our kids stressed out and unhappy.

[inmypjs]

I'm really sorry your DS is going through a rough time. I think the other posters have had some great ideas. I am really shocked by the school's response. He can't be the first child they've had who hasn't done what they want him/her to do all the time, right?

If you would like him to remain there, I'd push for a meeting with the appropriate administrators and teachers. I'd let them know you are getting him evaluated, but there is a wait, and in the meantime there needs to be a plan in place to help your DS cope at school. I'd come in with some ideas of your own, and ask for theirs. If you aren't satisfied that they care about your DS and want to help him succeed, I'd pull him out. It sounds like that really isn't what you want to do, but I think you need to protect his emotional well being. As others said, you could try public or homeschooling - but I wouldn't let him go on in a harmful situation. If they are just annoyed by him and don't want him there, he'll sense that.

I also wonder about learning disabilities for him. My 7 yo has some (including dyslexia), and although he doesn't act out at school, he has some attention problems there and we have seen some different behaviors at home this year - a lot more signs of frustration. A lot of the reading on learning disabilities I've done talks about how first and second grade are when the demands increase and a child will start to notice that they can't do what other kids can. They can respond in various ways, including acting out more, being the class clown - all sorts of things to avoid the work that is frustrating them and take attention away from the fact that they are struggling. I have no idea if your DS has this, but while you are waiting for the evaluation process to start, it might not hurt to do some research on your own about learning disabilities. I started by googling "first grade reading problems" when I saw my son struggling. The stuff I read sounded exactly like him. Just something to think about.

[nfowife]

I think you should pull him, try the public school, and if that doesn't work out look at HS. With your teaching background HS won't be that hard to start up but it wouldn't be my first choice. This school doesn't sound like a great fit like it once was.

[smilequeen]

Well, I think the gut reaction to pull him out is a little premature. It definitely needs to be on the table, but it's possible to work through this too. I'd set up a meeting with the teachers and head of the school. It is entirely possible that they haven't dealt with this situation before and need to brainstorm ways to deal with it. Daddy hasn't been home that long correct? The behaviors are relatively new? And they do sound a bit extreme (with a good reason behind them, but still a bit extreme). They may not be able to work with him in such a small school, but if you had otherwise been happy, I'd sit down, really talk, and find out.

I also think a rosy picture can be painted of how much help a public school can give. I know plenty of people who have gotten services, but quite inadequate ones from public school. We get services at our private school, very high quality, the teachers really work with them and really, really care. But we do have to pay for those services. I have no question that my son is being better served outside the public school system though. No question that his speech therapist is 100% better than the free one. You never know.

[lmwbasye]

Well, I think we're going to pull him.

We decided to try to get through this week and hope that he just had a rough week last week and the teachers just needed a breather over the weekend. I picked him up early on Monday because the public school needed him to do a sight and hearing test to get his paperwork through to the diagnostician. His teacher was tearing up talking about his behavior (he was hiding under the desks again, drawing all over himself with marker, not responding to her at all...almost like a lack of comprehension). Again, this behavior has all started up in the last few weeks. Anyway, her literally crying to me indicated to me that she just can't handle it at all. Trying not to over-react by pulling him since he's been happy there for a year and a half, DH and I talked to him that night. He's not really telling us what's going on. He did say that the kids don't want to talk or play with him so I think that's part of it. He's always been quirky and I'm sure kiddos could be teasing him as they get older because he couldn't care less about video games, TV shows, etc but can talk to you forever about white-out and Everest. I always knew at some point this could affect him and I'm wondering if something is going on there. Not sure, though.

Anyway, we were pretty honest with him and saying that if he can't focus and get his work done (like he has for the last year and a half there) he could have to repeat 1st grade. Yesterday was better (I think....again, the teacher was vague). He said he was "back on track" and got work done. He read to us that night and was able to read with almost no help "If You Give a Pig a Party".

This morning, I drop him off and got back the teacher's evaluation they needed to fill out for the diagnostician. They literally had him marked in ALL areas as "poor" or "below average". Some of it, I believe is accurate but other areas there's no way. For example, they marked "displays adequate vocabulary" as "Poor"...the lowest rating. Meanwhile, we've had therapists and family consultants ask us if we've had him test for gifted or had his IQ tested and one indicator they mention is his extensive vocabulary. Strangers are often surprised by it as well. Anyway, my point is, for some reason they either have given up on him and only see negative across the board or he's all of a sudden performing that poorly for them and I'm thinking he must be super super unhappy. They've made several comments in the past few days as well indicating that they just want him gone (one teacher told me to keep an open mind about the public school and the other...while crying...told me she hopes I get some help with him...as if this is solely my concern and not hers as the classroom teacher). Meanwhile, his report card from November 11th is dead opposite from this evaluation and, again, they made no indication of how poorly he is performing until DH and I called a conference to discuss his reading last week.

So, I'm at the point that I don't think they are equipped to handle the situation in an appropriate and professional manner, I don't believe they want to try at all to work with us or him, and I don't trust their ability to evaluate him academically or behaviorally and to communicate either with us. If this is how he's performing, I have no problem with the eval...I just don't understand why they never said anything and why his report card from 2 months ago is so extremely different from this. Sigh.

Anyway, thought I'd update again. I appreciate all of your insight. I did send him in with new ear muffs in hopes it will help him focus as he is a sensory kiddo. We are working with the diagnostician and the system will test him for autism, pyschological, cognitive, academic, and behavioral. It will take a few months, so I now just need to figure out what to do with him. I believe we may pull him today. DH is calling another private school in the area that is supposed to be great or we may revisit the public school. I'm still hesitant to homeschool as there is SO much going on right now in general and I'm in constant meetings relating to both deployments (this last one and the next one in a few months). If I need to homeschool, I can and will, but I'd like to look at other options first.

Thanks again for "listening" and for all your insight. This has been very upsetting and difficult and is happening right as DH is back at work so I feel very alone in dealing with this all and writing it out here helps. :)

[crl]

Thank you for the update, though I am sorry things have not improved. I really applaud you for advocating for your son and keeping an open mind about what is going on and what may be best for him.

Catherine

[carolinamama]

I've been following this thread and each time I've seen your updates I have the same thought running through my head - kids rise -or fall- to the expectations set for them. I feel like the teachers had almost come to expect him to perform poorly and act out.

Wishes for a better time for your DS in his new schooling - whatever that may be. And hugs to you for all your advocating.

[JTsMom]

I am so sorry. Both of you deserve much better than that. :hug:

[maestramommy]

:hug::hug:I'm sorry. Hope that the new schooling situation will be a better fit. You are such a strong mama, I know this must be incredibly hard. :hug::hug:

[bisous]

Just wanted to pop in and say that I read all of your posts and think that your assessment of the current schooling situations sounds right on.

I want to let you know that my DS has been successful now both in public school and at home.
I homeschooled him for two years (K and 1st) and really loved it. It was a lot of work and I think homeschooling works best when the parents have lots of resources at hand. It was nice because it both bought us time and allowed my DS to really relax!

Then we put him in 2nd grade at a public school this year and he has done really well. My DS needed the time at home to get an accurate diagnosis and to mature to the point that sitting and following commands was much easier.

I thought that perhaps in your situation, since you'll be withdrawing DS from private school, you might have the resources for things like professional house cleaners and babysitters. In which case, I think homeschooling 1st grade is entirely possible. You mention that you have obligations but you could easily get someone to play with/babysit your DS and you could do all the fun stuff (schooling!) with him at home.

In other words, I'd divert my funds from private school to support for *ME* and tackle the homeschooling. I figured out that two hours of day of strict academics were all that was needed for DS to be at the top of his class. It was really relaxed and he thrived!

[amldaley]

I haven't read through all the other responses so pls forgive if this is a repeat...

Have you looked in to FOCUS Project? http://www.focusproject.org/

Also, I would look in to getting him connected to a Psychologist who specifically deals with military kids - Military One Source can help you find one that is either in their network for your free sessions or a specialist, even if they don't qualify for the free service.

His PCM should be able to give you a referral via Tricare for Psychology as well, and be sure to tell them it is *deployment related*.

There are huge studies right now as many LO's are having similar issues as your DS. We don't really understand the short, mid and long range effects of seperation and deployment.

:hug: to you.

[egoldber]

he was hiding under the desks again, drawing all over himself with marker, not responding to her at all...almost like a lack of comprehension

FWIW my older DD displayed these same exact behaviors. For her it was definitely an anxiety issue. And in her case, the teacher definitely made it worse by not knowing how to appropriately handle the behaviors.

[amldaley]

I haven't read through all the other responses so pls forgive if this is a repeat...

Have you looked in to FOCUS Project? http://www.focusproject.org/

Also, I would look in to getting him connected to a Psychologist who specifically deals with military kids - Military One Source can help you find one that is either in their network for your free sessions or a specialist, even if they don't qualify for the free service.

His PCM should be able to give you a referral via Tricare for Psychology as well, and be sure to tell them it is *deployment related*.

There are huge studies right now as many LO's are having similar issues as your DS. We don't really understand the short, mid and long range effects of seperation and deployment.

:hug: to you.

ETA: just read your update so I see that you are aleady connected. Hope it is okay to leave this info here in case someone else needs it!

One more resource...especially if you do go in to the PS system is to enlist the aid of your base School Liason. They are there to help ensure military kids get their needs met in the PS system.

[lmwbasye]

amldaley: I hadn't heard of that. It's not on our installation but sounds intriguing. This is a big focus for me right now anyway since I'm the advisor for our BN and these families have had two deployments in 3 years and are now facing a third....we found out about this 5 days after returning from Iraq. Ugh! Anyway, I'm meeting with our BN CDR to discuss what are we going to do to make sure these families are adequately resourced.

DH and I are meeting with a therapist that accepts Tricare tomorrow. They do play therapy and more than half of their parents are DS's age. I'm going to talk to them about how much experience they have with military and deployment-related issues. Right now, it takes a LONG time to get an appointment and referral through post. Tricare will cover the first 9 sessions without a referral and we need help now so we're going this route. We also have been talking with our MFLC and may go back. Anyway, thank you for the suggestions. I KNOW we are not alone in these issues and am working on finding the best way to help poor DS through this...especially with DH having to leave again so soon.

Beth...I can't tell you how many posts I have read by you where I said, "wow...that's Liam!" So I really appreciate your insight and this is my gut feeling...that he just has major anxiety right now with everything going on and his teachers are neither being patient nor sensitive about that at all. I always appreciate your POV since I have often felt that DS and your DD are similar in many ways. :)

[lmwbasye]

ETA: just read your update so I see that you are aleady connected. Hope it is okay to leave this info here in case someone else needs it!

One more resource...especially if you do go in to the PS system is to enlist the aid of your base School Liason. They are there to help ensure military kids get their needs met in the PS system.


Oh definitely leave it up. I never leave where we are stationed during deployments to "go home" but we honestly hate it here and....long story short...are heavily considering moving nearer family for this next deployment with everything else going on and there is a FOCUS group at one of those places we might go.

Again thank you for your insight as I know this is what you work with. I actually almost PMd you the other day. :)

[amldaley]

amldaley: I hadn't heard of that. It's not on our installation but sounds intriguing. This is a big focus for me right now anyway since I'm the advisor for our BN and these families have had two deployments in 3 years and are now facing a third....we found out about this 5 days after returning from Iraq. Ugh! Anyway, I'm meeting with our BN CDR to discuss what are we going to do to make sure these families are adequately resourced.

DH and I are meeting with a therapist that accepts Tricare tomorrow. They do play therapy and more than half of their parents are DS's age. I'm going to talk to them about how much experience they have with military and deployment-related issues. Right now, it takes a LONG time to get an appointment and referral through post. Tricare will cover the first 9 sessions without a referral and we need help now so we're going this route. We also have been talking with our MFLC and may go back. Anyway, thank you for the suggestions. I KNOW we are not alone in these issues and am working on finding the best way to help poor DS through this...especially with DH having to leave again so soon.


Just keep in mind that the MFLC is meant to be very short term...typically they are meant to help families resolve specific, singular issues in 3 meetings or less, no more than 5. I just don't want you to get attached and then have them cut you off!

PMing you for more base specific resources.

[lmwbasye]

Just keep in mind that the MFLC is meant to be very short term...typically they are meant to help families resolve specific, singular issues in 3 meetings or less, no more than 5. I just don't want you to get attached and then have them cut you off!

PMing you for more base specific resources.

Yeah, our new one just got here and she'll be here for 3 months. I just use her as a sounding board mostly. She said she can meet with us up to 8 times per issue (maybe it's different with the Army?). Anyway, thanks again. :)

[Uno-Mom]

This morning, I drop him off and got back the teacher's evaluation they needed to fill out for the diagnostician. They literally had him marked in ALL areas as "poor" or "below average". Some of it, I believe is accurate but other areas there's no way. For example, they marked "displays adequate vocabulary" as "Poor"...the lowest rating. Meanwhile, we've had therapists and family consultants ask us if we've had him test for gifted or had his IQ tested and one indicator they mention is his extensive vocabulary. Strangers are often surprised by it as well. Anyway, my point is, for some reason they either have given up on him and only see negative across the board or he's all of a sudden performing that poorly for them and I'm thinking he must be super super unhappy. They've made several comments in the past few days as well indicating that they just want him gone (one teacher told me to keep an open mind about the public school and the other...while crying...told me she hopes I get some help with him...as if this is solely my concern and not hers as the classroom teacher). Meanwhile, his report card from November 11th is dead opposite from this evaluation and, again, they made no indication of how poorly he is performing until DH and I called a conference to discuss his reading last week.
Wow. Trust your instincts - pull him. Those things are not ok, he deserves better.

Honestly, it's obvious that he's having a rough time and needs some extra supports but the behaviors you describe are NOT that severe for a kiddo who's sorting through anxiety and maybe other integration issues. An appropriate school should know how to respond-sure, it might be frustrating for everybody at times but they should not be overwhelmed and negative like this school is.

[lmwbasye]

Wow. Trust your instincts - pull him. Those things are not ok, he deserves better.

Honestly, it's obvious that he's having a rough time and needs some extra supports but the behaviors you describe are NOT that severe for a kiddo who's sorting through anxiety and maybe other integration issues. An appropriate school should know how to respond-sure, it might be frustrating for everybody at times but they should not be overwhelmed and negative like this school is.


Yeah, that's part of it, too. I try very very hard not to be too "teachery" having taught before....I try not to think that I could do better or whatever. But, I have to admit that I've dealt with things like having kids cursing, throwing chairs, screaming in class...and still was able to continue with my day and deal with the little ones in the most positive way I could. Many children with behavior issues are dealing with something bigger at home and they still need someone to cheer them on and love them. I definitely would not cry in front of a parent about a child who was sitting under a desk. Oy!

I just hate the thought of my poor little man being so upset and I feel like the teacher's emotions are controlling their evaluation of him. He has some major issues for sure...but not lowest scores in every single category. And rating him that way with never having communicated that extreme to us beforehand is just unacceptable.

[amldaley]

Um...this is interesting...this resource literally just dropped in to my work Inbox while we have been posting here....

http://afterdeployment.org/

[arivecchi]

What an ordeal. Just sending hugs. I think you are handling this so well. Good luck to you and your little guy. :grouphug:

[Gena]

I'm so sorry you and your little guy are going through this. I think you are doing the right things by seeing a counselor, working with the public school district for evaluations, and seeking a more supportive environment. It's obvious his current school is unable or unwilling to help him.

I don't have any direct experience with the issus that military families face, but for personal reasons these families are close to my heart. Hugs to you and your DS. :grouphug:

[Indianamom2]

Wow. Trust your instincts - pull him. Those things are not ok, he deserves better.

Honestly, it's obvious that he's having a rough time and needs some extra supports but the behaviors you describe are NOT that severe for a kiddo who's sorting through anxiety and maybe other integration issues. An appropriate school should know how to respond-sure, it might be frustrating for everybody at times but they should not be overwhelmed and negative like this school is.

:yeahthat: I completely agree with all of this. I'm not a very reactionary mom, but in your specific situation, I think your instincts are absolutely right.

And as a mom of another high anxiety kiddo (also in 1st grade), anxiety can cause kids to react in very strange ways. It's a very real thing (not that you're doubting it) and it is so hard to watch your child suffer with it.

I haven't started it yet, but I have a copy of a workbook called "The Coping Cat" that I ordered from Amazon at the recommendation of our dev. pedi for dd's anxiety. It's basically oriented for kids and is a cognitive behavior technique at-home workbook. That might be something you could use at home to back up what any therapist is doing. :hug:

[elaineandmichaelsmommy]

Wow, i'm so glad you decided to pull him.

DD1 and ds went to a very high end mont. program here and while I don't blame them and can't say that the program is "bad" I did notice that while the teachers have their masters in education and loads of further montessori instruction they are NOT educated or trained in how to recognize children with or offer help to children with difficulties

DD1 had herself and at least 1 other child in her class with adhd. DD's anxiety and ocd didn't come out until after we moved and changed schools.

The mont. school is without a counselor for any of their students and anyone who recieves services gets them through the local school district.

I do think that mont. is a good program in itself but that the people who work in the school are sadly incapable of helping special need children or even recognizing it when it's standing in their face

Kudos to you for pulling him. Hopefully your public school will help him. Surely even being in a classroom with a teacher who's had extra training will be of help and the counselors will be able to help him and the teacher before the iep is concluded just by implementing interventions they can use without the iep.

Bet of luck and wishes to all of you.

[roseyloxs]

Hugs to you and your family. Your DS deserves better from his educators. I think pulling him was the right thing to do.


Oh definitely leave it up. I never leave where we are stationed during deployments to "go home" but we honestly hate it here and....long story short...are heavily considering moving nearer family for this next deployment with everything else going on and there is a FOCUS group at one of those places we might go.

I always go "home" during deployments. I don't go for the entire time but usually for at least 2 months or so. My kids really benefit from the extra attention that grandparents can provide. Its a lifesaver for those days that I feel like I am running on empty. That being said my parents have a great set-up for us which is what makes it so nice. They let me take over the entire finished basement so I still have plenty of my own space.

My ds is in Kindergarten right now but I am considering homeschooling because my DH is in the military. Being able to go "home" during deployments is one of the big pluses since school can just come with us. My DH also has a pretty erratic schedule so it would work out nicely for us since we can just take a day off when daddy has the day off.

[Tondi G]

Oh definitely leave it up. I never leave where we are stationed during deployments to "go home" but we honestly hate it here and....long story short...are heavily considering moving nearer family for this next deployment with everything else going on and there is a FOCUS group at one of those places we might go.

Again thank you for your insight as I know this is what you work with. I actually almost PMd you the other day. :)

I don't have personal experience but my Godson's mom's 2nd husband was in the airforce. She got so much support from her Mom with her children when her hubby was deployed. Lucky for her, her Mom came to live with them on base rather than having to "go Home". I can see where being close to other family members would give you some relief and also provide your children other family to love on them and give them the attention they crave and are lacking by having their Daddy be gone for months at a time. For this reason alone, Home schooling might be a great idea. Then School is wherever you are! I hope you can help your DS through this rough time and get things back on track. Gald you have made the decision to pull him from his current school ... it obviously isn't working for anyone involved. HUGS and Good Luck!

[KpbS]

Just now seeing this update--good grief! You made the right decision to pull him out of that school. It sounds like things were just deteriorating and the teachers had no plan or idea of what to do about it.

Sending huge hugs and thinking about you guys as you sort through all of the decisions and meetings in the next months. :hug: