I need to be trained

[StantonHyde]

I am giving serious consideration to the idea that whining is a learned/reinforced behavior and that I am doing a really good job of unconciously (SP?) encouraging DS to do this. THis is bad because whining is my #1 trigger. I do NOT tolerate it in anyone. He was 4 in October. He started whining at 3. At first, it was because he needed to feel secure so I paid more attention to him when he was anxious and he could get through that phase. Now whining is his default. You could say it was sunny and he would whine that he would get a sunburn. You name it, he whines. It is obviously worse during transitions. This week, he cried--hysterical sobbing for 20 minutes-- because I brought lollipops again when I picked him up from daycare. Of course, in the morning he whines because he doesn't want to go and at night, he whines because he doesn't want to go home.

So--do I:
1. Ignore it for a while and just walk away? What do I say when I come back? Just pretend to be happy and go for distracting or do I set limits--as in, next time, I won't bring you anything. (which does not sound right to me)
2. Pay attention immediately. If I try to get him to calm--breathing etc, he doesn't want to and he just totally triggers me so I am the one doing all the breathing.
3. Sometimes, if I can get it right in the beginning, I can say "no whining" or "if you whine, you don't get to watch a video". THat works. But not when he has already ramped himself up. I have even tried getting mad at him, but that doesn't help anybody.
4. Sometimes, the "I can't hear you, ask in a big boy voice" works, unless he is too worked up.

So--what do I need to do to keep myself calm, teach him some coping skills, and NOT teach him to whine. Because clearly, I am not doing it right. I apologize in advance to all who read this and wonder how someone so clueless could be a mom--but I cannot see my way through this one trigger point. Help--train me so I can help DS!

[Marisa6826]

First, I'm not sure why you bring him anything when you pick him up. Is it supposed to be a reward? I'm just confused about that. I've never 'brought' anything with me, other than maybe some juice/milk.

I, too, have a 4yo, and can sympathise very well. Usually, I do the, "I'm sorry, but I can't understand what you're saying". I just keep repeating it, and don't respond to whatever it is that she's asking, crying about, etc.

I've also used, "Well, obviously you must be too tired to use the right tone of voice, so I think you need to lay down for a while".

I think the trick is to not give in (which I KNOW is sometimes a Herculean effort). They know it works our nerves, and will usually give in. I think the first half dozen times or so he will continue to test you, but you just have to tune it out.

How is his sleep schedule?

-m

[mommy111]

I don't know, maybe I'm completely clueless about this and feel completely free to ignore my advice, but:
if he whines about going to school, I would say, stay home, and keep him home. when he says he's bored, I would point out that he didn't want to go to school and its his own choice.
when he whines about getting a sunburn, tell him he has on sunscreen and won't. if he still complains, take him into the shade, leave him there and the rest of you continue to have fun in the sun.
i'm prob a horrile role model for a mom, but i'm a great believer in giving people the natural consequences of their whining, both adults and kids.
and i've been known to tell my kid, 'no whining' when she fell down relatively hard one day in an airplane. stewardess made bad face and commented to other stewardess, 'well, she fell down really hard,' but heck, i would have to listen to the daily whining every time she got her toddler knocks and that i couldn't live with. (can you tell whining is my pet peeve :) In any case, it seems to have worked with DD, now when she falls, she just rubs the boo boo herself and goes on. so it may be worth a try.

[DrSally]

I would go with #4, something like, I can't understand you when you talk that way, every time, consistently, so he gets the msg. Then, in a neutral manner, go about your business (not mad or punishing). Then, if he asks/talks without whining, give him lots of positive attention and praise. I think any attention to it, positive or negative will increase the behavior. I think if you switch tactics, it can just further reinforce the behavior. Maybe with time, you can catch it before it escalates so he gets out of control.

ETA: computer froze before I could finish. The main thing, I think, is to be super consistent every single time. I know it is so much easier to say than do. Since it is a hot button for you, DC is naturally going to try to push it. I hope it gets better.

[StantonHyde]

Well, it sounds like I need to find "Serenity Now" and just keep repeating the "I can't hear you line". Of course, the most effective thing to stop someone from doing my trigger behavior is the one thing it is hardest for me to do in light of the trigger behavior :-)

His sleep schedule is good, he still naps etc. so I don't think that is an issue. I do have to remember to look for colds this time of year, because if he doesn't feel well, forget it. So thanks for that seasonal reminder.

I think so much of parenting is deep breathing and calming techniques--for the parents! Thanks again.

[Sillygirl]

I agree with the PPs, in that consistency is key. One thing I find helpful to keep in mind is the way our brains are hard-wired to respond to variable payoffs. Game designers use it all the time. If you give a rat a pellet every time he presses a button, he will soon get bored. But if the rat only gets a pellet every twenty times or so, he will go nuts working that button. It's the same technique that makes slot machines so addictive. It's not a moral judgement, it's just that our brains really seem to react to that situation. So if you give in to the whining once in a while, you are setting up the same payback system and reinforcing the whining far far far more than you would ever believe possible.

[madelinesmom]

Everyone is so correct about consistency. But I agree consistency is difficult especially during transitions. When I started working part-time last year we really went through a whining binge. Many things had changed, I was working two days a week, her baby sister was 5 months old, her Daddy was taking her to MDO earlier, I felt guilty and did the "bring a treat" idea when I picked her up. The first time she whined about getting a "Dum Dum" instead of a blowpop, I knew I was creating monster... So I just had to stop, crack down on the behavior, and stick with what was working.

BTW what I mean by crack down on the behavior is:
1. not responding to whining at all
2. if whining gets rude or goes into talking ugly we do time out
3. if it escalates beyond that I take away playing with friends or riding bikes...

Good Luck,

Jane
Madeline 1/20/03
Emily 11/29/05
http://b4.lilypie.com/l3-em6/.png
http://b1.lilypie.com/-FG1m6/.png

[DrSally]

yes, the intermittent reinforcement, just further entrenches the behavior.

[StantonHyde]

I think I was giving in by getting angry with him--which I am sure he sees as any attention is good attention. And you are so right about the intermittent reward thing--what kills me is that, intellectually, I know this stuff. It is making sure that I do it in times of stress that is going to take a lot of work.

What would we do without other moms to educate us, remind us, and support us?

[DrSally]

I hear ya! It is so easy to know what to do, MUCH harder to do it. I'm trying to get DS to nap and sticking to a plan is soo hard when emotions run high!