Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38
  1. #1
    ha98ed14 is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Between the Ocean and the Desert
    Posts
    7,239

    Question Why we discipline the way we do... (long)

    Perhaps some of you can relate, or even add a little perspective to my first-time-mom crisis of conscience, for lack of a better phrase...

    I was in the baby room at church this morning. It is the room for moms of kids under 2 to tend their babies during the service. Our church doesn't do a nursery. So I'm sitting there with DD (just turned 1 y.o.) in the circle on the floor with other moms with their babies under a year. DD is sitting in front of me. She is going through a "pull hair, grab eyes, grab nose and try to rip it off" phase. She was working her moves on a little boy (8-9 mos) and his mom was sitting right there. We are friends so I felt pretty comfortable that she would move DD's hands as needed. But I was watching and I kept saying, "No grabbing; Be gentle." So after going through this 3 or 4 times. I got into a conversation with another mom. I wasn't watching so close and DD reaches out and is grabbing this little boy's face. Her hands are already on him. I grabbed her hand back and slapped it and said, "No!" After I did it, my heart sank. I hit my baby. I raised my hand against my own child. She cried a little. I didn't hit her hard.

    The group of moms that was sitting there are all pretty strict with discipline, especially when it comes to their kids hurting other children. All of the babies there under a year were 2nd or 3rd children, so these ladies have had a lot more time to figure out how they want to parent than I have. I actually like this camp of moms, the "strict moms." I think they are good parents and their kids (from age 1 to 5) are usually very well behaved.

    There is another camp of moms at church who are more Attachment Parent style, or maybe just lax disciplinarians. Their kids say rude things and don't get reprimanded. They are mean or rough with younger children and get away with it. These kids also happen to be boys and the oldests are older (6 to 8 y.o.) than the oldests kids of the group of "strict moms" I was sitting with. And in very un-Christian character, the "strict moms" spend a lot of time criticizing the parenting style of the "lax moms" and how obnoxious their kids are. And honestly I usually agree with the strict moms. If my child acted like these kids do, I would be horrified. And it is not just the older boys, their younger boys and girls are also rude/ sassy and show little regard for the feelings of other kids. I do NOT want DD to grow up to act like this, so I feel I need to parent the way the strict moms do, which includes disciplining a 1 year old. In fact, one of the strict moms said, "Yeah, discipline is rough, but how else is she going to know she can't do that?" when I expressed concern that maybe I should not have hit DD's hand. They clearly approved of my discipline.

    But still now, 12 hours later, I wonder WHY I reacted that way. Was it the irritation of seeing her do it AGAIN after we just talked about it? Was it the pressure of all the other moms there watching how I was going to handle this situation? I'm not sure. But I do know that it felt wrong to hit my kid. Maybe it is because she is very young. Maybe I will never feel right using spanking or slapping a hand. I don't know.

    So I guess my question is, why do you discipline the way you do?
    Mommy to my One & Only 05.07

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    6,036

    Default

    Attachment parents aren't them same as lax disciplinarians. You don't have to hit your child to get them to behave, you set resonable boundries and you follow through. I am often complimented on the behavior of my son and I have NEVER hit him. I find this website to be helpful. http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/
    Sarah
    DS 5/26/05
    DS 5/12/07 our angel
    DD 4/8/08

    Moralizing and morals are two entirely different things and are always found in entirely different people. Don Herold

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    .
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    I would say I strive (and that is the key word!) for gentle (AP I guess you'd call it) discipline. That does not mean that I sit back and let my children do things that are not appropriate or be hurtful others. I try to be mindful of what is age appropriate as far as expectations and what works for each child given their personalities and age. While my DD has her 5 year old moments, I would say in general she is a very caring and kind child. She is so gentle and sweet with her little brother. DS while a little too young, already shows empathy to others (he tries to take toys to DD when she's crying or gets very concerned when he sees others upset). I try to keep in mind that how I handle their misbehaviors is a perfect opportunity for a learning moment. I do not want them to grow up thinking that hitting and yelling solves problems. There have been days where I appologized to DD for yelling at her and explained to her how I wished I would have handled the moment better - because I also want my children to know that noone is perfect, but we can ask for forgiveness and learn from those moments. So that's pretty much why I discipline how I do (well and it makes me feel better inside when I strive for it).
    Lisa
    Emma 11/02
    Adam 2/07
    Their hands may be small but their feelings are just as big as ours.

  4. #4
    shilo is offline Sapphire level (2000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,075

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lisams
    I would say I strive (and that is the key word!) for gentle (AP I guess you'd call it) discipline. That does not mean that I sit back and let my children do things that are not appropriate or be hurtful others. I try to be mindful of what is age appropriate as far as expectations and what works for each child given their personalities and age.
    yep, that pretty much sums it up here too. i'm a big believer in 'firm but kind' and 'consistency is key' because it really has worked for us, but i don't think most people here would observe me with DS and call me 'strict'. for a 3 year old DS is extremely well behaved. but he IS _3_. that means he test's boundaries, he's all about independence right now, and he's full of curiosity. we do have age appropriate consequences at this point. i'll give you a few examples from last month: you can't keep your feet off the dinner table? then you must be done eating - or you're having trouble staying next to mommy in the store? you must need to sit in the stroller/cart and take a break for a few minutes. logical, immediate, firm consequences that he can grasp at his age and start to understand the 'rules' of our family but done in a kind way with no anger on my part. i guess some probably would call this 'lax', but i can tell you, a month later, i'm not dealing with either of these two issues now - they've self corrected without yelling or hitting.

    only you can decide where your comfort level is, and it is absolutely an ongoing learning process with no end game in sight (ok, maybe when they're 24? but i imagine i'll still be continuously relearning how to be the best parent i can be at that point too). it's okay to question how you handled the situation today - that's part of being a good mama in my opinion! the fact that you're still feeling like maybe you wish you would have handled it differently does tell me that you maybe haven't quite found a groove yet that suits where _you_ and your DD are at right now tho. and that's OK! you recognize that your personal parenting goal aligns with being more 'strict' - but you need to define what 'strict' is for _you_ not the other mom's in your circle.

    i think it's only natural to look at those around you and evaluate what _you see_ as working or not working in other families. we (humans) do learn an awful lot by observation. but i think there are plenty of ways that involve setting limits, and establishing age appropriate behavioral expectations that don't need to involve 'hitting' if that's not what you're personally comfortable with.

    in the situation you describe, i can only describe for you my own revelations at a similar age in my DS. one was that i needed to educate myself a little better every 3-6 mos or so on what was 'age-appropriate' or common behavior for any given developmental state we were at and develop _reasonable_ expectations to go along with that. and two was that if i was committed to my "firm but kind" and "consistency is key" mantra, it was going to take a little more vigilance on my part on the front end to have the desirable behavior become routine for DS as the outcome on the back end. but you know, i can't think of a behavior that we weren't able to modify with DS in what looking back was a relatively short period of time.

    anyway, at one, it may be an expectation beyond her age that she will be able to remember two minutes later that you've asked her to use gentle hands. at one "gentle hands, one finger touches" was an every single pet thing with our cats for example. by 18mos it was maybe every-third and by 2 DS didn't need the cue except maybe the first pet. but at one, it was _every single time_ and IIRC, that's pretty age-appropriate. they don't have the internal impulse control to limit their exuberance at that age.

    so in my usual long-winded style, i guess what i'm trying to say is, be gentle with yourself and be open to the learning you need to do too. it's okay not to get it right the first time (and there is a valuable lesson in that for our kiddo's too, you know?). all you can do is think of things you want to do/try differently next time and then have the mental discipline to try it out. i'm not saying don't have your conversation, mommy's needs don't always come last here. but maybe you take turns - some time for DD to get your undivided attention while she explores with cues from you, followed by some time where you scoop her up for a hug and a few minutes of hip time while you have your conversation in standing. the needs of both of you get met in increasingly longer/overlapping time periods as your DD gets older, i promise , but right now, that may be what's needed to accomplish both.

    hth, lori
    lori

  5. #5
    1964pandora is offline Platinum level (1000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    USA.
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by katydid1971
    Attachment parents aren't them same as lax disciplinarians. You don't have to hit your child to get them to behave, you set resonable boundries and you follow through. I am often complimented on the behavior of my son and I have NEVER hit him. I find this website to be helpful. http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/
    YES! The Gentle Christian Mothers website is fantastic for Christian mothers who are struggling with how to discipline their DC.


    Susan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Virginia.
    Posts
    8,281

    Default

    (nak) it is hard, isn't it? I really started thinking about discipline at that age when I wasso frustrated that I lightly spanked him once-and felt horrified. We do a lot of warnings and then time outs and then ending of privilages. I do nursery a lot at church so I totally see where you are comming from. I do a warning plus a redirection and then a time out where I hold him in my arms and ignore him. He's old enough now that I feel he knows the big rules so last Sun he pushed a kid away off the slide and he went into immediate time out for that. Good luck!
    Margaret and
    (DS 2/06) and (DD 3/08)

  7. #7
    egoldber's Avatar
    egoldber is offline Black Diamond level (25,000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Northern VA, USA.
    Posts
    31,123

    Default

    I try to discipline in a way that is age appropriate and that is loving, but consistent and firm. I also choose my battles carefully, and everyone is different in that regard. (There are some things that don't bother me, but bother other people, and vice versa.)

    I never, ever hit my children. I personally think it is wrong. But more than that, there is no research which shows that physcial discipline is more effective than other types of discipline.

    I definitely agree that "gentle" discipline does not equal lax discipline. I actually think its harder to be an effective gentle disciplinarian, because you have to work to not let your own emotions in the moment overwhelm you and you have to be on your toes all the time with an appropriate response.
    Beth, mom to older DD (8/01) and younger DD (10/06) and always missing Leah (4/22 - 5/1/05)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, US.
    Posts
    8,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by egoldber
    I try to discipline in a way that is age appropriate and that is loving, but consistent and firm. I also choose my battles carefully, and everyone is different in that regard. (There are some things that don't bother me, but bother other people, and vice versa.)

    I never, ever hit my children. I personally think it is wrong. But more than that, there is no research which shows that physcial discipline is more effective than other types of discipline.

    I definitely agree that "gentle" discipline does not equal lax discipline. I actually think its harder to be an effective gentle disciplinarian, because you have to work to not let your own emotions in the moment overwhelm you and you have to be on your toes all the time with an appropriate response.
    ditto ditto ditto.

    and gentle discipline is NOT lax. the other moms you describe do NOT subscribe to gentle discipline. they appear to have NO discipline. VERY different.

    my 5 year old just smacked my 3 year old in the back because he wasn't playing the way the 5 year old wanted. he was sent to his room. he asked me over and over when he could come back with a very worried and upset look on his face. going to his room is VERY uncomfortable for him, as he can't stand to be separated from us. hitting him for hitting his brother would reinforce the BAD behavior and teach him that a quick smack WILL get you what you want. being separated and missing out on the fun shows him that a quick reaction of hitting makes HIM lose out.
    Liza has been hangin' around this board for six years.

    My sons are 4 and 6. And they are very loud.

  9. #9
    brittone2 is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    back to where we started
    Posts
    23,590

    Default

    I'm a huge believer in gentle discipline. In fact, I'd dare say I'm probably *more* strict than a lot of people I know. I enforce what I say, and I mean what I say.

    You can be a spanking parent that says "no, don't do that" 10 times and then smacks your kid on the 11th. You can be a gently disciplining parent that says it once and then gets up and intervenes (gently) immediately (affectionately referred to on the GCM site as "get off your butt parenting" LOL). Spanking doesn't necessarily equate with "strictness" and gentleness doesn't necessarily equate with permissiveness.

    II don't use time outs (other than very rarely when I'm about to lose my mind and tell DS he needs to hang in his room for a while), smacking, slapping, spanking, etc.

    You can be authoritative without being authoritarian. You can be gentle without being permissive. I find there are so many tools in the toolbox (Playful Parenting types of tricks, etc.) that it just isn't necessary to spank, IME.

    I echo the other comments about gentlechristianmothers.com. The discipline site there is fabulous, IMO. I learned about it here, and have found it so helpful, along with books like:
    Playful Parenting (Cohen)
    Unconditional Parenting and also Punished by Rewards (Alfie Kohn)
    Positive Discipline (Nelsen)
    Parent Effectiveness Training (Gordon) and his later book P.E.T. in Action

    ETA: I would also consider myself an attachment parenting type of parent. We cosleep, tandem/extended nurse, babywear, etc. so I guess I'm an AP parent. I know plenty of lax/non disciplining parents that are not AP and I know some that are AP. They don't go hand in hand. I also think for a parent that is accustomed to more punitive discipline (spanking or even time outs), some of the gentle discipline techniques may *look* permissive in some cases, but that doesn't mean they *are* permissive. You can stop a behavior without necessarily needing to follow up with *punishing* for it in many cases. JMO.
    Last edited by brittone2; 06-09-2008 at 09:52 AM.

  10. #10
    maestramommy's Avatar
    maestramommy is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern N.H
    Posts
    17,081

    Default

    I would characterize my style of discipline as somewhere in between your "strict" moms and AP. I think I'm pretty strict, and although I don't spank I do timeouts. But I don't call them timeouts, I call them "going to bed, going in your crib." I use them when I can see that Dora is headed for a bad meltdown. To me I think of it as her needing to be left alone so she can vent in peace. It really works well, because when it's over (don't have a set time limit) it's like we've hit the rewind and reset button, she can start over. She's much happier, and more cooperative.

    I did slap her hand or her leg a couple of times on a road trip. Once out of desperation because she was poking Arwyn's eyes, and once as a purely knee jerk reaction when she kicked me in the stomach. But I do not hold spanking as a part of my arsenal. This is not to say there aren't times when I would LIKE to spank her. But I really don't want to do it if there are other ways.

    To answer your original question, I go with this method because it seems to work well for Dora's temperment, and it helps me feel more in control of the situation.
    Melinda
    Mommy to
    The Gift 10/01/05
    Elfgirl 5/25/07
    Sparky 6/27/09

    "Sunset to Twilight, Our Family's Journey with Alzheimer's." http://maestramommi.blogspot.com/




Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •