Ugh, little girls in lingerie doing sexual moves

[bubbaray]

And of course "whatever is generally accepted right now in competitive dance" isn't the answer.

I don't understand. This video is FROM A DANCE COMPETITION. Of course "generally acceptable in competitive dance" is the reference point. They were in a competition.

I think bare outfits are de rigeur for dance. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/user/YourDanc...11/uCvvkvsEyl0 She's covered, but in nude fabric. Looks naked. The dance isn't hip hop skanky, but it certainly is revealing, no? That girl is 11.

Or this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQii5khFXwM Name of the dance is "Wild Child". The girl is 9. She won 1st place for that routine. The leg hold at the end certainly leaves nothing to the imagination.

I just don't see what the harm is, or how it amounts to child abuse (see Katie's post above) to have a child in competitive dance. Competitive cheerleading is similar -- high energy routines, skimpy clothing, stage makeup. Ditto competitive gymnastics. Lets not forget figure skating. Or synchronized swimming.

Most "judged" sports are about glitz as much as they are about talent. You won't be winning many dance competitions dressed in FLDS clothing, KWIM?

[elliput]

I just don't see what the harm is, or how it amounts to child abuse (see Katie's post above) to have a child in competitive dance. Competitive cheerleading is similar -- high energy routines, skimpy clothing, stage makeup. Ditto competitive gymnastics. Lets not forget figure skating. Or synchronized swimming.

I don't think Katie was saying that competitive dance is in itself child abuse. What has happened here is something that was only intended for a dance competition has been posted on the web and already has resulted in the exploitation of these little girls. Their names are attached to the you-tube files. It is known the general area where they live. Two of their parents were on national television. It would not be difficult for a predator to track down any one of these girls. Some of the comments posted on the you-tube videos are not innocent statements- "cutealisious" "i still wanna adopt the one in pink..she's cute as hell!!", "i would **** the green one" (these are from the other videos links you posted). I am not making this up. One of the parents claimed in an interview that the routine was taken out of context- so what context should it have been taken in?

[bubbaray]

I don't think Katie was saying that competitive dance is in itself child abuse. What has happened here is something that was only intended for a dance competition has been posted on the web and already has resulted in the exploitation of these little girls. Their names are attached to the you-tube files. It is known the general area where they live. Two of their parents were on national television. It would not be difficult for a predator to track down any one of these girls. Some of the comments posted on the you-tube videos are not innocent statements- "cutealisious" "i still wanna adopt the one in pink..she's cute as hell!!", "i would **** the green one" (these are from the other videos links you posted). I am not making this up. One of the parents claimed in an interview that the routine was taken out of context- so what context should it have been taken in?

THIS is the most relevant post I've read or heard about in the online and news coverage. ITA agree with you about the privacy issue. I was shocked that that YourDanceChannel from youtube shoes first and last names. Many posted by parents. The routines, outfits and makeup are not shocking at all. Posting full names online is.

*I* take the videos in the context of dance competitions. I suppose a predator can take any video of a child in any context. *I* don't get that -- I see a competitor, not a sexual object. But a predator is going to view a video of my 3yo downhill skiing in a sexual manner too, KWIM?

[deborah_r]

I don't understand. This video is FROM A DANCE COMPETITION. Of course "generally acceptable in competitive dance" is the reference point. They were in a competition.

Is it possible to consider that the "powers that be" in dance competition world have lost touch with reality? I don't think it is realistic to view dance competition as being totally insulated from the rest of society. I kind of picturing everyone trying to one-up eachother and the outfits getting more and more daring. Shouldn't someone step back and say "hey, these are kids, let's set some guidelines on what is OK and what isn't."

I understand from your post that these type of outfits are what older females will wear in competition. Couldn't the youngsters learn the moves without dancing around in (what appears to be) lingerie? No one is asking them to dance in a snowsuit, but how about a one piece (and one that actually looks like a one piece - I don't understand exactly what you were saying about costumes where it appears their skin is bare but it isn't - but why even try to make it appear that it is bare?)

[mamicka]

*I* take the videos in the context of dance competitions. I suppose a predator can take any video of a child in any context. *I* don't get that -- I see a competitor, not a sexual object. But a predator is going to view a video of my 3yo downhill skiing in a sexual manner too, KWIM?

I think bare outfits are de rigeur for dance. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/user/YourDanc...11/uCvvkvsEyl0 She's covered, but in nude fabric. Looks naked. The dance isn't hip hop skanky, but it certainly is revealing, no? That girl is 11.

Or this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQii5khFXwM Name of the dance is "Wild Child". The girl is 9. She won 1st place for that routine. The leg hold at the end certainly leaves nothing to the imagination.

I just don't see what the harm is, or how it amounts to child abuse (see Katie's post above) to have a child in competitive dance. Competitive cheerleading is similar -- high energy routines, skimpy clothing, stage makeup. Ditto competitive gymnastics. Lets not forget figure skating. Or synchronized swimming.

Most "judged" sports are about glitz as much as they are about talent. You won't be winning many dance competitions dressed in FLDS clothing, KWIM?

I agree with you & don't have a problem with the nude-looking costume or the blue one. To me they aren't intending to be sexual. I do think the original video posted is intending to be sexual.

[bubbaray]

I don't understand exactly what you were saying about costumes where it appears their skin is bare but it isn't - but why even try to make it appear that it is bare?)

How would you depict the Disney characters Jasmin and Ariel without their "revealing" costumes? Sure, you can have kids dance to music from Aladdin and The Little Mermaid wearing plain leotards. But, putting on a stage production or a competition (which are different than a recital IMO) -- I really don't see how you can get in character wearing a full leotard.

The point of skin-colored "parts" of a costume is usually so that the costume doesn't move and create a "Janet" moment on stage.

[kijip]

I just don't see what the harm is, or how it amounts to child abuse (see Katie's post above) to have a child in competitive dance.

Dancing is not child abuse. But the overt sexualization of very small and young girls has consequences and is a negative force in our culture. I see that sexualization as abusive, as is anything that demands adult action and understanding from a child. For me, something here undermines the sanctity and beauty of just being a little girl.

Beyonce may be all about the booty, but it does not need to be all about a 7 year old's booty. Those are songs and music that I would see age appropriate for the much older child.

And our actions don't happen in a vacuum. Teaching children to dance that way and dance to explicit lyrics teaches them lessons about gender roles, their self worth and expectations. Maybe some of those lessons are positive, many are not positive. We live in a culture where there are even 5th graders and 6th graders are experimenting with oral sex. Where barely teen kids have eating disorders and ask their parents for plastic surgery. We didn't just wake up that way- something got us here. This sort of stuff is not all of it, but IMO it is part of it. Not a cause, but a symptom.

I'm pretty darn liberal, perhaps one of the most liberal posters on this board. I don't have a problem with girls in age appropriate costumes, even if those things are revealing, like a Jasmine suit. I don't see kids in bathing suits as being sexual. I am the last person who would tell you that dressing in a certain way invites the attention of rapists and creeps, rapists and creeps know no boundaries and need no invitation to be the way that they are. I enjoy Beyonce as much as a the next person. But the time and place to gyrate to her music is not before you even grasp what you are mimicking.

[bubbaray]

But if dancing in "inappropriate" ways/costumes is the root of all evil, how do you explain that in many Muslim countries (where women and girls cover from head to toe, Western music and dance are forbidden), girls are MARRIED at age 10 or younger? Certainly marriage at a young age is more "sexualized" than any dance, no?

Competitive judged sports are at least in part about showmanship. Part of that is choosing music that the audience knows and can relate to. Most people no longer recognize music to classical ballet -- they know Beyonce. The growth areas in dance are "street" dance, like hip hop, etc. Thankfully, most studios require students to take classical ballet too.

[kijip]

But if dancing in "inappropriate" ways/costumes is the root of all evil, how do you explain that in many Muslim countries (where women and girls cover from head to toe, Western music and dance are forbidden), girls are MARRIED at age 10 or younger? Certainly marriage at a young age is more "sexualized" than any dance, no?

Re-reading what I wrote, I don't see anything either claiming that dancing inappropriately is the "root of all evil" or that child marriage in Muslim cultures (or any other culture) is a good thing or a not sexual thing. Your logic does not apply to what I actually wrote. Just because something is better than child marriage on an imagined scale of inappropriateness or abusiveness does not mean it is therefore a good thing.

My opinion is my opinion and I certainly respect anyone's right to disagree with me. I really am uncomfortable on many levels with children who are still getting visits from the tooth fairy wearing lingerie while dancing like a Pussycat Doll. I don't think it's outrageous to find that alarming or for me, as someone profoundly affected by the gross sexual dysfunction of our culture, to see it in the broader context of society approving of the sexualization of small children.

FWIW, I have seen a lot of children and teens dancing hip-hop and street dancing routines that I did not find sexually degrading or age inappropriate. It's not about modern music vs. classical. It's about sexually explicit activities being thrust on children at younger and younger ages.

[wellyes]

I don't understand. This video is FROM A DANCE COMPETITION. Of course "generally acceptable in competitive dance" is the reference point. They were in a competition.

What I'm saying is that at a certain point, it's not OK anymore. If the standard for dance competition were mimicking lap dancing, who would really want their prepubescent daughter doing a lap dance onstage?

I don't think the linked videos are THAT bad. Less skin and removing the 15% of the routine that's overt T&A would make it so much better. But as they stand I get uncomfortable watching them.

Part of that is choosing music that the audience knows and can relate to. Most people no longer recognize music to classical ballet -- they know Beyonce. The growth areas in dance are "street" dance, like hip hop, etc. Thankfully, most studios require students to take classical ballet too.

I don't think the choice is hip grinding or ballet. There's a huge range of dance styles and moves that'll get competitive dancers like those very talented little girls onto "So You Think You Can Dance" when they turn 18.