Need some advice re: Doctor in Ed program

[trales]

I am hoping to get a lot of input from you guys.

Here is my situation, I currently am at Adjunct Chem Professor at a local community college. I really love my job. I love teaching, I love the hours, the flexability, it is a perfect job for me.

I would like to have a full time teaching/ instructor position at one of the local colleges/ community colleges or small universities. I don't want a tenure track research position.

I have both and undergrad and an M.S. degree related to chem (aqueous geochem).

One of the local universities has a CAGS, Ed.D. program that is nights, weekends, online, short courses etc. geared towards working people. They would even give me some freshman chem classes for tuition type of thing.

Here is the question. Will this help me achieve my goal of getting a full time teaching/ lecturer/ instructor position in higher education, whether in the chem dept (for lower level classes) or in a joint chem/ education for science ed/ curriculum etc.

Basically, I don't want to spend money and time if this degree won't help me, but I really don't see a PhD in chem or science in my future (comparative theology maybe). This seems like a reasonable way to achieve my goal, if it is in fact a means to the end.

What do you think? Hit me with info.

[trales]

No one has input. I am counting on you guys. What is a girl to do.

[larig]

It's a tough call. A PhD might make you more marketable, but I don't know if a CAGS would (I just don't know anyone that has one, but I'm at an R1 institution). Is there anyone at the CC where you work that you could talk to about this? I'm not a CC person (came from H.S. math teaching to getting a PhD thinking I'd get a tenure track job teaching math ed or inst technology.) The jobs are few and far-between right now. Ugh.

I'd want to know how long it would take to finish, how much it would cost, etc. I've had my PhD fully funded, otherwise I wouldn't have done it. It's been a long slog, and now that I'm almost done, I'm not sure what I will end up doing. The jobs are just not really there in my field this year. (at least not in the places my family is willing to relocate).

[cvanbrunt]

An EdD is a deal killer at my university. I'm in the psych department and we don't consider anything but PhD. Same in every other science department on campus. I was on a search committee in the Kinesiology department for a full time tenure track position. The internal candidate had been in the position for a couple of years and was working on an EdD but he wasn't considered. A PhD was hired. I've been on search committees in the biology department as well and an EdD gets put in the pile of applications that don't get read. The only EdD are in the education department but the majority of the ed department are PhDs. I can only think of two EdDs in the faculty of over 200.

I am at a small liberal arts teaching university. Even in this environment there is an expectation of a research program. I would take a look at chem departments at the kind of institution you would like to be at and see if there are any other degrees than a PhD. I've been at my institution for eight years now. The chemistry department has tried to hire a tenure track position three times (different positions) and has only been successful once. It's hard to find an academic chemist who wants to teach, in my experience. The other two positions are filled by short term contracts by PhD candidates at the nearby research university.

It's getting harder and harder to land a tenure track job. The majority of faculty jobs in the country now aren't tenure track. It's really ugly out there. The humanities are in really bad shape compared to sciences. Just so you know where I'm coming from: I love teaching. It's what I've always wanted to do. I teach great classes, I'm tenured but I think I hate my job. I'm actually considering quitting and doing something entirely different but still teaching.

[trales]

This is good feedback, the kind I was looking for.

The CC I am at, will hire full time with only a Master's if the state would permit them to hire. I now teach 17 hours worth of class and the state refuses to release the money.

Would it be worth calling around to the Chem and Ed departments at the local colleges to see what they would want.

[Carrots]

If you want to be a professor, I don't think I would do a CAGS. I would go for the PhD.

My dad has his Ed.D but he was a Super. of Schools and now teaches EDU classes at our local University. The only CAGS I know of are geared for the K-12 education field, like for curriculum development or leadership.

[maestramommy]

Tracey, one of my friends at church has a PhD in chem and the only thing she was able to land was a part time lecturer type position at a small college in Chester. Her original goal was to go into research, but she got her degree right before 9/11, and then P&G had a hiring freeze. Years later, she has been teaching in small colleges, not tenure track positions.

I think it might be worth talking to other Chem and Ed departments. The environment might vary from state to state. You'd think that Sciences would be much more marketable, but times are SO tough right now.

[larig]

I'd definitely call the places you're interested in teaching and see what they are interested in.

ETA: I'd also agree with the EdD thing. I don't think you want one unless you are certain to be going into education. There are places that are well respected that didn't offer PhDs in Ed (Harvard was one) but only EdD, I opted for a PhD, just to be safe.

ETA2: Since you don't have an ed degree yet, if you're interested in Sci Ed you would likely need to get a degree in Ed (PhD in Curriculum & Instruction or Learning Sciences kinds of things--you'd need to take the pedagogy classes to be considered a viable candidate.) And, of course, don't get your advanced degree where you want to teach eventually.

[DrSally]

I'm no expert, but I think a PhD would be much better for a full time professor position. You said you *don't* want a tenure track position? Adjunct is really perfect for the flexibility, but the pay isn't that great, or so I've heard. I'm really not all that familiar with the "in between" adjunct and full tenure track. I think it's a good idea to call around to see what they're looking for.

[octmom]

My impression is that an EdD won't get you anywhere if you want to be teaching faculty. It's probably better for those who want to go into administration, but even then, I don't think it is viewed as comparable to a PhD. I wish it was! I am in university administration and just don't have it in me to go for a PhD anytime soon. I've just got an MEd.