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  1. #81
    sntm's Avatar
    sntm is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    As someone who has a nanny, I think it is entirely appropriate to contact a reference you trusted and tell them the woman they recommended quit via email with less than 24 hrs before starting and without explanation.

    All the hypotheticals of terrible tragedies are first, unlikely, and second, still do not undo the potential harm done by last minute quitting. If she applies for similar jobs in the future, her references should know so that they can extend that as a caveat - she is great with kids but has a history of being unreliable.

    It's a job, not a charity. You have responsibilities in a job, even if it isn't with formal written contracts. Her actions put you in a tough spot. What if it caused the employer to miss a crucial meeting and she lost her job? What if my nanny did the same and I had to cancel surgery for my breast cancer patients? This isn't date night babysitting. She acted unprofessionally and in a way that would never be tolerated in the real job world. She absolutely shoul be held accountable an notifying her references (dispassionately, reporting only the facts "FYI, I thought she was great and hired her but she quit by email less than 24 hrs before starting leaving me in quite a lurch") is a GOOD thing that may save someone else from the same situation in the future.
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  2. #82
    twowhat? is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sntm View Post
    As someone who has a nanny, I think it is entirely appropriate to contact a reference you trusted and tell them the woman they recommended quit via email with less than 24 hrs before starting and without explanation.
    Me too but be prepared for these people to SIDE WITH THE NANNY. Yes, it may rub salt into the wound. We had a nanny quit 2 weeks into the job, by email. She was great while she was here, then she got sick and failed to let anyone know she would be missing more than 1 day of work. I think she quit because in the end we basically had to tell her "look - if this happens again, we can't have you work for us anymore. If you get sick, you MUST call us" and she just didn't want to face us again.

    She came VERY highly recommended, so I let her previous employer know what had happened and that she had quit (for exactly this reason - I wanted her to know in case it would change her recommendation). She totally sided with the nanny and in the end sent me a pretty nasty email that took everything for me to not respond to.

    The whole thing really pissed me off beyond belief. That was the point I which I said "screw it" to finding a nanny and I quit my job. So I think you should definitely let whoever recommended her know.

  3. #83
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    goldenpig is offline Sapphire level (2000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sntm View Post
    As someone who has a nanny, I think it is entirely appropriate to contact a reference you trusted and tell them the woman they recommended quit via email with less than 24 hrs before starting and without explanation.

    All the hypotheticals of terrible tragedies are first, unlikely, and second, still do not undo the potential harm done by last minute quitting. If she applies for similar jobs in the future, her references should know so that they can extend that as a caveat - she is great with kids but has a history of being unreliable.

    It's a job, not a charity. You have responsibilities in a job, even if it isn't with formal written contracts. Her actions put you in a tough spot. What if it caused the employer to miss a crucial meeting and she lost her job? What if my nanny did the same and I had to cancel surgery for my breast cancer patients? This isn't date night babysitting. She acted unprofessionally and in a way that would never be tolerated in the real job world. She absolutely should be held accountable an notifying her references (dispassionately, reporting only the facts "FYI, I thought she was great and hired her but she quit by email less than 24 hrs before starting leaving me in quite a lurch") is a GOOD thing that may save someone else from the same situation in the future.
    This, exactly. Reliability is one of the top requirements for us in hiring a nanny. I have a full schedule of patients, many that have prepped for their procedures--it wouldn't be fair to them for me to not come in at the last minute because my nanny decided not to show up. I wouldn't skip work myself unless I was super sick (like need to go to the hospital sick--I've never had to do this). If I was hiring someone, I would absolutely want to know if she flaked at the last minute with no explanation. I would leave the "Christian character" out of it, but she acted unprofessionally and notifying her references with a factual statement about her actions could save someone else from the same difficult situation that OP was put in.
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  4. #84
    sste is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    I have sort of been wondering as I read this thread whether there is some unintentional gender stereotyping informing some responses.

    As I mentioned, it seems to me that an argument that the nanny should be immune from word of mouth, phone calls to recommenders, etc when other workers are not suggests that she is too feckless? irresponsible? weak brained? to be held to normal standards of work conduct. Or that domestic work is not real work?

    And I am also surprised at how readily posters think that working mothers should just suck this up, go with the flow, look on the bright side. I completely agree with goldenpig, sntm, and others, that women (and men) do not reach high standards of professional achievement in the workplace by taking this attitude toward their work and commitments. The working mom has a real job and it may be one that is very important to her and to others. Many of us rightfully feel our work deserves to be taken seriously! It is not a small thing or an acceptable occurrence for a nanny to leave parents without childcare with less than a day's notice. The same would be true of the nanny's job (nannies are often working parents) - - she should not be terminated with hours or a few days' notice.

    Realistically, it is going to take multiple weeks to hire a new nanny and many women/parents would find themselves in a very compromised position at work and perhaps even at risk of losing their job, not advancing as quickly etc. You can say "well it is just this once" but as working parents and often esp. as working mothers other, unavoidable child-related things come up that already cut into one's work time and something like this is piled on top of those other things.

    There were other things the nanny could have done in this situation - - a short explanation, an apology and acknowledgment of the inconvenience, offering to work short-term for a week to give the OP some time to start interviewing again (this is not ideal but I would take it over no childcare for a week or two), rec'ing a friend on an emergency or longer-term basis.
    Last edited by sste; 12-30-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by sste View Post
    I have sort of been wondering as I read this thread whether there is some unintentional gender stereotyping informing some responses.

    As I mentioned, it seems to me that an argument that the nanny should be immune from word of mouth, phone calls to recommenders, etc when other workers are not suggests that she is too feckless? irresponsible? weak brained? to be held to normal standards of work conduct. Or that domestic work is not real work?

    And I am also surprised at how readily posters think that working mothers should just suck this up, go with the flow, look on the bright side. I completely agree with goldenpig, sntm, and others, that women (and men) do not reach high standards of professional achievement in the workplace by taking this attitude toward their work and commitments. The working mom has a real job and it may be one that is very important to her and to others. Many of us rightfully feel our work deserves to be taken seriously! It is not a small thing or an acceptable occurrence for a nanny to leave parents without childcare with less than a day's notice. The same would be true of the nanny's job (nannies are often working parents) - - she should not be terminated with hours or a few days' notice.

    Realistically, it is going to take multiple weeks to hire a new nanny and many women/parents would find themselves in a very compromised position at work and perhaps even at risk of losing their job, not advancing as quickly etc. You can say "well it is just this once" but as working parents and often esp. as working mothers other, unavoidable child-related things come up that already cut into one's work time and something like this is piled on top of those other things.

    There were other things the nanny could have done in this situation - - a short explanation, an apology and acknowledgment of the inconvenience, offering to work short-term for a week to give the OP some time to start interviewing again (this is not ideal but I would take it over no childcare for a week or two), rec'ing a friend on an emergency or longer-term basis.
    Wow. This is the most insulting post yet to those if us, or at least my view that what the nanny did wasn't ideal but wasn't awful or worthy of complaints to a reference. So I'm sexist because I think how the potential nanny (or glorified babyistter with no benefits, not hired through an agency - where I agree higher standards of "professionalism" apply) quit before ever working for a family wasn't ideal but wasn't the end of the world and worthy of recriminations and calls to references. I do have different standards and expectations for lawyers, residents, doctors, teachers and even true nannies hired with sick leave and benefits. You get what you pay for to some extent. I think it sucks but I'm not sexist and also think the expectation that the nannies have some extra obligation because they are part of a family or caring for busy working families is sexist. They are free agents and don't owe lengthy apologies and she let the person know albeit at the last minute. I'm not sexist but FWIW don't see men wringing their hands in the business world about missed expectations or how disappointed they are when something doesn't work out. Glad I'm not a nanny too!!

  6. #86
    kijip is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sntm View Post
    As someone who has a nanny, I think it is entirely appropriate to contact a reference you trusted and tell them the woman they recommended quit via email with less than 24 hrs before starting and without explanation.

    All the hypotheticals of terrible tragedies are first, unlikely, and second, still do not undo the potential harm done by last minute quitting. If she applies for similar jobs in the future, her references should know so that they can extend that as a caveat - she is great with kids but has a history of being unreliable.

    It's a job, not a charity. You have responsibilities in a job, even if it isn't with formal written contracts. Her actions put you in a tough spot. What if it caused the employer to miss a crucial meeting and she lost her job? What if my nanny did the same and I had to cancel surgery for my breast cancer patients? This isn't date night babysitting. She acted unprofessionally and in a way that would never be tolerated in the real job world. She absolutely shoul be held accountable an notifying her references (dispassionately, reporting only the facts "FYI, I thought she was great and hired her but she quit by email less than 24 hrs before starting leaving me in quite a lurch") is a GOOD thing that may save someone else from the same situation in the future.
    On second thought, I don't have a big issue with calmly and dispassionately contacting references with the facts. That said, the OP was not particularly calm or dispassionate. In the way she worded it the contact sounded entirely emotional, a touch judgmental (basing it on religion) and angry. Reactions in that state of mind are rarely a wise course of action.

    Still, I don't see how this could be resolved without the return of indenture. People change their minds. If she can no longer accept the job or just no longer wants the job what is the alternative to the last minute notice? How much explanation is one supposed to give? With the exception of a small pool of lifelong, professional nannies, most nannies are young, fairly inexperienced, and not necessarily looking to make this a career.

    Frankly, I think the typecasting and sexism going on here is that nannies are somehow not just an employee working for the best pay and situation they can find. That they are held to a higher standard, emotional standard, than those working in similarly paid and skilled jobs. The nanny is operating in the real world and in the real world, people quit jobs as nannies and bartenders and admins and you name it all the time. Sometimes before they start. It's not the same situation that extremely well paid, highly specialized and educated professionals operate in reputation wise.

    The nanny's references know her and not the OP... I highly doubt her call would alter their thoughts of her. Calmly done or in anger done, it is a pointless errand. Also, in the real world parents lose childcare at the drop of a hat. It happens all the time. It's frustrating and totally an inconvenience but most parents will experience it at some time, in some way (likely more than once) for any number of reasons.
    Last edited by kijip; 12-30-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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  7. #87
    kijip is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannaAddict View Post
    You get what you pay for to some extent. I think it sucks but I'm not sexist and also think the expectation that the nannies have some extra obligation because they are part of a family or caring for busy working families is sexist. They are free agents and don't owe lengthy apologies and she let the person know albeit at the last minute. I'm not sexist but FWIW don't see men wringing their hands in the business world about missed expectations or how disappointed they are when something doesn't work out. Glad I'm not a nanny too!!
    Katie, mama to a pair of boys.

  8. #88
    kijip is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenpig View Post
    notifying her references with a factual statement about her actions could save someone else from the same difficult situation that OP was put in.
    Odds are strong she is either not taking a nanny job or she will not be interested in being a nanny for more than a few years. It's overstating things to think this call would save a future childcare employer the same situation. The only real purpose of the calls would be to make the OP feel better. And things done in anger don't generally actually calm people down.
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  9. #89
    sste is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by kijip View Post
    Frankly, I think the typecasting and sexism going on here is that nannies are somehow not just an employee working for the best pay and situation they can find. That they are held to a higher standard, emotional standard, than those working in similarly paid and skilled jobs.
    I cannot think of employers and jobs at any level of pay that would be thrilled with an employee who was going to assume sole responsibility of the "business" during their work hours terminating their verbal employment agreement with twelve hours notice.

    The primary issue is not home/not home but the availability of substitutes with that kind of notice. In the home childcare setting, there is no other employee to take over for the week. Many parents have limited or no access to emergency care situations or cannot afford what they do have access to. For these reasons, reliability is at the top of the list for nanny employees--a fact which most nannies understand.

    And hannaddict, my view is that it is nice to see such an empathetic and generous side to your posts in the past month--perhaps disregarding your last post I have noticed a real spring to your internet step recently! I am not clear on why you thought I singled you out as a confirmed sexist among the many posts and given the open-ended nature of my post.
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  10. #90
    kijip is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sste View Post
    I cannot think of employers and jobs at any level of pay that would be thrilled with an employee who was going to assume sole responsibility of the "business" during their work hours terminating their verbal employment agreement with twelve hours notice.
    Of course not. But it still happens. I've lost out on my top pick for hiring admins and assistants several times, once while not 12 hours prior, was when we were expecting them on Monday for paperwork. When you are paying someone very little money, especially for a part time job, it's a given they will move on pretty much anytime they can for something better. And you move on. Getting to be thrilled in life or business is not a given. The jobs I was hiring for did have health insurance but I knew since all we could usually do was 24-32 hours, that we were at a competitive disadvantage to those offering 40 hours of the same $12/hr pay. There were a ton of applicants in the recession (Ivy grads, lawyers etc) and even though I might have received 200 resumes for every job listing at most 10 of those ever looked vaguely possible meaning they had the desired non-profit setting experience.

    I also can't think of any other low wage job where quitting means you need to suggest your friends or offer a replacement. That is part of the whole nanny bias deal. I am sure the manager of Subway is inconvenienced when a guy quits to go be a bike messenger or leave for college or whatnot. THe guy who quits is not considered awful for not connecting Subway manager with an alternate. Hiring is on the employer, not the employee. You said it is not charity. You're right. But that works both ways. The nanny is not working just because she likes your kid or because you need her (though she perhaps does like you and your kids). She's there primarily for the check. It's business. Not out of the good of her heart.
    Last edited by kijip; 12-30-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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