Grand jury in Ferguson case does not indict officer in Michael Brown shooting

[ExcitedMamma]

Ugh I don't appreciate my words being twisted. Police officers have the right to shoot if they are in fear for their lives. That's what I said and I stand by it. If a person is behaving dangerously that's the issue, not what caused them to do so, those are separate legal issues that impact prosecution and treatment after a crime is committed. They are protecting the public and have every right to protect themselves when threatened.

[wellyes]

Ugh I don't appreciate my words being twisted. Police officers have the right to shoot if they are in fear for their lives. That's what I said and I stand by it. If a person is behaving dangerously that's the issue, not what caused them to do so, those are separate legal issues that impact prosecution and treatment after a crime is committed. They are protecting the public and have every right to protect themselves when threatened.

The officer who shot Tamir Rice clearly believed he was in danger. Do you think that shooting was justified?

[anonomom]

Ugh I don't appreciate my words being twisted. Police officers have the right to shoot if they are in fear for their lives. That's what I said and I stand by it. If a person is behaving dangerously that's the issue, not what caused them to do so, those are separate legal issues that impact prosecution and treatment after a crime is committed. They are protecting the public and have every right to protect themselves when threatened.

But if we're going to give officers broad discretion to use deadly force if they perceive a threat, shouldn't we also expect them to be very careful about putting themselves in potentially threatening situations? Shouldn't we expect them not to escalate when a kid acts defiant (but, by every account, not initially threatening?). Again, we're back to the fact that Wilson escalated the situation, choosing to confront Michael Brown that second time (and we have only Wilson's word that it was because Brown cussed at him). Shouldn't we expect that, once he had been engaged in a confrontation with the kid, he await backup and stay in his car rather than chasing after the fleeing, injured Brown?

[StantonHyde]

How often are medical personnel faced with armed assailants??? Ask any ER provider--you would be amazed.

I also know several retired police officers who never killed anyone. Zero. They spent a lot of time talking people down.

As for believing that the rates on blacks being arrested/shot/convicted at a higher rate is because they actually commit more crimes---really?? really??? Talk to ANY defense lawyer. Hell, talk to a cop. They will tell you--rich, white people get off. Period. They have good lawyers. They get dropped charges, reduced sentences, community service, you name it. Poor people and especially poor black people don't have a chance in today's justice system.

The bottom line is this---black people and white people have very different experiences in their every day lives. And if you don't get that, I do not know what to tell you. John Stewart relayed the story of how they sent 2 staffers around New York City--a black man dressed impeccably in a suit and a white guy dressed quite shabbily/almost homeless. Guess who got stopped when they walked into any building or business??? Tell me that is not racism. I am blonde and blue eyed. I have seen this first hand. When I was in college, I was a Big Sister to an AA little girl. We went to a store that I often frequented. She had a quarter and wanted to spend it on some candy. We stood there in what was a quasi line and the clerk consistently acknowledged everyone around us to pay but ignored us even though we had been standing there longer. I am 5"10"" tall--its not like you can't see me. I finally grabbed the girl's hand and marched up to the counter and said "We would like to pay now". The woman looked at me with thorough disgust. Last time I ever shopped at that place.

[elliput]

Is there room to consider dementia, intoxication, or mental incapacity (such as autism)? Nurses get attacked by people with these issues all the time and we don't kill them.

Of course those may be issues but they should not be a concern to a police officer if his life is in danger. He shouldn't have to worry about whether the person attacking him is usually a nice man when he's not on meth or when he is taking his medication. Those are separate issues that do not change the exigent circumstances on the scene. Those cases are tragic but it doesn't change the danger to the officer and it certainly isn't the issue in this case.

Here is a very recent, classic example of one of those tragic cases- Cops Slam Unarmed Woman On the Pavement, Killing Her In Front of Family. The woman was not under arrest, had committed no actual crime, and probably was scared out of her wits. Was she really a danger to the officer(s) and needed to be body slammed? It seems that doing anything in the presence of law enforcement other than complete and abject submission results in death.

[marymoo86]

There is video today of the Tamir Rice shooting. This is the one where it was a (black) 12 year old with a toy weapon who was shot and killed by police. The officer said he made a move towards grabbing his weapon. What the video shows is that the child was shot almost instantly when the officer stopped the car. It's not graphic footage but it's heartbreaking. The kid had no chance. It feels very relevant to this discussion.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate..._shooting.html

This is heartbreaking and disgraceful and should be getting attention.

[California]

Thank you to all who have responded so thoughtfully. Today when I read ExcitedMamma's statements, especially about thugs, it shocked me so much I couldn't respond. I know a lot of people think that way and it's good to get it out in the open for discussion. I hope ExcitedMamma that some of these posts helped you see a different point of view. We as citizens should be questioning what legal rights our police should have. The police are employed by their local government, who are supposed to be representing citizens... so we why wouldn't we be questioning, examining and thinking about these important issues? Wanting to see facts brought to light after a police shooting just seems like good citizenship to me. Are the rights of police officers working in the best interest of our citizens? I'd say no. As others have expressed, the rampant and statistically evident racism inherent in our current judicial system shows that it is not working.

Last year in December my sister-in-law's stepbrother had a depressive episode and threatened to hurt himself if his girlfriend left him. He was unarmed. His parents called the police to help calm him down. Instead the police came into the home and immediately shot him- an unarmed teen about to head off to college. Can you even imagine having your child shot down like that? The parents called for help, not harm! They started researching police violence. They have been sharing report after report of police corruption and excessive force. Most of these cases never make it to trial. The internet is proving a powerful tool for sharing information that hopefully spurs some of us to think critically about what we want our country to be like.

A couple of links to add to the ones already given:
http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-03-...pes-confirmed/

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...r-own-business

[ExcitedMamma]

Thank you to all who have responded so thoughtfully. Today when I read ExcitedMamma's statements, especially about thugs, it shocked me so much I couldn't respond. I know a lot of people think that way and it's good to get it out in the open for discussion. I hope ExcitedMamma that some of these posts helped you see a different point of view.

It does it makes me incredibly angry. I'm vilified for calling someone a thug if they attack a cop? Seriously that's what apparently the majority of you believe? I'm horrified by that. Why should my husband be out risking his life when that's the consensus?

Do I really have to type out that yes of course there are bad cops. There are bad people in every profession. But that's no excuse to vilify officers. People support the military and firefighters but no one stands up for officers...until they need them....but no they still complain when they don't like how they do their jobs.

[brittone2]

Excited mama, my brother spent most of his adult life in law enforcement, as a cop in a large town with a good bit of crime, and later in a large city's police force. He also worked in the federal govt as an officer. I know what kinds of complex situations LEOs face. Last night he sent me two links about some guy on Fox presenting "both sides" of the situation between Brown and Williams. It was actually repulsive to me, and I was ( and still am) upset by it. I had just watched the video of the 12 yo being gunned down, and the last thing I could deal with was someone blaming the black community for what unfolded.
I am grateful to law enforcement, and I realize how complex their work is. But sending me a link to a video about how the black community is partially responsible because they don't enter law enforcement often enough, etc made me absolutely livid. I can be grateful for the sacrifices made by LEO and their families, recognize that their jobs are incredibly difficult, acknowledge that there are many caring officers, etc while still recognizing there are serious, systemic issues at play, including militarization without adequate training, racial bias, etc.

[California]

ExcitedMama, sad to see that anger is keeping you from seeing all the good points here. From what I read, posters have been trying to say, "Whoa, slow down, don't use such a broad brush to paint the picture that all of these people are "thugs" deserving to die." At the same time there are no posts painting a broad brush that all police are "bad"- absolutely no one has said that. We are right to question these shootings. Having a badge should not be carte blanche to kill. If an officer can simply say, "He was threatening me, so I shot him," and that's it, end of discussion, the other person isn't even human any more- they are a "thug," then we are all saying that incidents like the one posted above where the cop instantly shot the 12 year old boy are just fine. And, if we look at the statistics, being black is enough to make a person seem suspicious.