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  1. #161
    vonfirmath is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ♥ms.pacman♥ View Post
    bc of the obvious labeling that was associated with it. why would any kid want to be a Buzzard when they can be a pretty Bluebird?? might as well label them as 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class, etc. If kids are given such kind of labels early on, what motivation do they have to improve at all.
    So better to name them by... Numbers? Colors?

    SOmeone above said theirs were sparrow and robins. Is there something particularly offensive about either of those?

    I know our next door neighbor was in a lower group and she seemed to have incentive to improve. Why? So she could read. Her mother read interesting books to her and encouraged her with the whole world of what was available/open to her once she could read.
    Married 3/04
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  2. #162
    KrisM is offline Clean Sweep forum moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonfirmath View Post
    So better to name them by... Numbers? Colors?

    SOmeone above said theirs were sparrow and robins. Is there something particularly offensive about either of those?

    I know our next door neighbor was in a lower group and she seemed to have incentive to improve. Why? So she could read. Her mother read interesting books to her and encouraged her with the whole world of what was available/open to her once she could read.
    In my DS2's math class, they use shapes. He's in square. It changes each unit after the pretest.
    Kris

  3. #163
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    JBaxter is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    I think my 1st grader's current reading/ center groups are all beach themed Surfer, swimmers ( cant remember the other 2) Her behavior clip chart is the same thing 7 levels the bottom being wipe out.
    Jeana, Momma to 4 fantastic sons

    Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions

  4. #164
    wellyes's Avatar
    wellyes is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonfirmath View Post
    So better to name them by... Numbers? Colors?

    SOmeone above said theirs were sparrow and robins. Is there something particularly offensive about either of those?

    I know our next door neighbor was in a lower group and she seemed to have incentive to improve. Why? So she could read. Her mother read interesting books to her and encouraged her with the whole world of what was available/open to her once she could read.
    Sparrows are common brown birds, robins are prettier. Work hard and you too can join the less drab looking bird club!!

    My kid is dyslexic and already painfully aware that she is not at her peers level in reading. I'm sure her reading group is leveled to some degree---- but labeling it , especially with increasing levels to aspire to, is not going to help struggling readers like her. 20% of kids have some degree of reading disorder, it's not a rare thing. And of course , aside from reading disabilities , there are very obvious correlations between socioeconomic status and academics. Shame shouldn't be a learning tool , especially for little kids.
    DD - 8
    DS - 5

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellyes View Post
    Sparrows are common brown birds, robins are prettier. Work hard and you too can join the less drab looking bird club!!
    I think you may be overthinking the colors of the birds . I am guessing that the teacher just picked three bird names and called it a day. In my class the reading groups are the journalists, the poets, and the novelists. They were not chosen to reflect the rank of kids. The kids just like having group names.
    Green Tea, mom to three

  6. #166
    anonomom is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Maybe my kids are totally oblivious, but they claim they've never been in leveled reading groups. This year was only the second time DD1's class was ever divided into any sort of reading group. DD1 says they make their own groups -- the teacher provides a choice of 3-4 books and whichever kids pick each book become a group. DD2 does have a reading group in first grade, but has no idea how it was chosen, it doesn't have a name and apparently the kids in it change frequently. Neither has ever been in any kind of small-group situation for math. From this thread, I'm starting to feel that maybe this is unusual?
    DC1 -- 2005 DD -- 2009 DS -- 2011

  7. #167
    doberbrat is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    I know our school breaks kids out into smaller groups for math and reading for more individualized attention. The kindy classes I've worked in label the groups by colors. dd1 (4th grade) says the group names vary by topic - sometimes they're sports teams - Celtics, Bruins, Red Sox etc. Once they were Inner core, Outer core, Mantle and Crust for a SS unit. The groups are reformed several times a year for reading/math or by project.

    I think as long as all of the names in the group are similar, -like sparrow and robin - 2 common birds found in the neighborhood its fine. Sometimes we over think things.
    dd1 10/05
    dd2 11/09
    and ... a mini poodle!

  8. #168
    ♥ms.pacman♥ is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellyes View Post
    Sparrows are common brown birds, robins are prettier. Work hard and you too can join the less drab looking bird club!!

    My kid is dyslexic and already painfully aware that she is not at her peers level in reading. I'm sure her reading group is leveled to some degree---- but labeling it , especially with increasing levels to aspire to, is not going to help struggling readers like her. 20% of kids have some degree of reading disorder, it's not a rare thing. And of course , aside from reading disabilities , there are very obvious correlations between socioeconomic status and academics. Shame shouldn't be a learning tool , especially for little kids.
    this, exactly. Thank you. I have similar concerns re; my DD who will start Kinder next year. With things like reading, writing she's the type that will just shutdown and stop trying if she gets the inkling that she's not up to par, and then will just deem herself incapable, making it harder for her to improve at all.

    And no, am not overthinking it, the whole sparrow/robin/bluebird thing is not something a teacher "just made up", it was a nationwide thing. We had different reading textbooks (obviously color-coded/labeled) which we used for the whole year (e.g. in the beginning of the year, you were selected to be in the red group, you got a red textbook for the year). I found this article below which describes it pretty well. It sounds like this sort ability grouping started in the 1960s, mostly in the South, when schools were forced to desegregate (gee, I wonder why). I was in the North, at a Catholic school but still it was painfully obvious there were biases amongst SES/ethnicity, plus there was the impression that whatever group you were in, that's where you were stayed. As the article mentions, for some kids that makes them want to try harder, but for most it does not.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ng.html?pg=all

    FWIW, i am not against the idea of grouping by ability AT ALL...in fact i think it is a good thing and especially in the context of redshirting and having kids of wide age ranges it sounds like its pretty necessary these days. though I 100% agree with the article that to be done well, it has to be pretty fluid and be implemented in a way that encourages kids to improve vs. simply labeling them.
    Last edited by ♥ms.pacman♥; 05-01-2016 at 05:51 PM.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by ♥ms.pacman♥ View Post
    this, exactly. Thank you. I have similar concerns re; my DD who will start Kinder next year. With things like reading, writing she's the type that will just shutdown and stop trying if she gets the inkling that she's not up to par, and then will just deem herself incapable, making it harder for her to improve at all.

    And no, am not overthinking it, the whole sparrow/robin/bluebird thing is not something a teacher "just made up", it was a nationwide thing. We had different reading textbooks (obviously color-coded/labeled) which we used for the whole year (e.g. in the beginning of the year, you were selected to be in the red group, you got a red textbook for the year). I found this article below which describes it pretty well. It sounds like this sort ability grouping started in the 1960s, mostly in the South, when schools were forced to desegregate (gee, I wonder why). I was in the North, at a Catholic school but still it was painfully obvious there were biases amongst SES/ethnicity, plus there was the impression that whatever group you were in, that's where you were stayed. As the article mentions, for some kids that makes them want to try harder, but for most it does not.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ng.html?pg=all

    FWIW, i am not against the idea of grouping by ability AT ALL...in fact i think it is a good thing and especially in the context of redshirting and having kids of wide age ranges it sounds like its pretty necessary these days. though I 100% agree with the article that to be done well, it has to be pretty fluid and be implemented in a way that encourages kids to improve vs. simply labeling them.
    I don't think we are really saying something all that different from each other here. Are we talking about the past or the present? I do believe that it serves all children better when they are allowed to learn at their own pace and are surrounded by peers that help them learn and grow but don't steamroll them. That's what I have observed happens in *most* elementary school classroom these days. It's not a perfect system because kids grow and change and evolve at different paces, but in general I think most teachers are working hard to meet kids where they are.

    I thought that the "bird" groups were something that an actual poster here was experiencing in their own child's classroom - the bird groups referenced in the article are a bit harsher (crows? buzzards? - they are clearly birds with a negative connotation, whereas I would be unfazed if my child was in a group of sparrows and another group was the robins. But I am no ornithologist so perhaps not well enough versed in the negativity surrounding sparrows.)

    Grouping elementary kids by assessing how well they know the material and teaching from there is simply the best possible practice. It is not the same as tracking, which I don't believe is happening in most elementary schools in the US these days.
    Green Tea, mom to three

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