School Frustration! Would love your opinion...

[amyx4]

Ds is a college freshman and an engineering major. So, we just went through this. What I can tell you is that most (but not all) colleges want to see Calculus in high school to be admitted to an engineering major.

Ds has a friend who did the catch up/double up/take a summer math class between Junior and Senior year of high school. He was off sequence in math due to changing high schools. Ds friend did get accepted into the engineering major at college.

My good friend's ds who is currently a senior, did not take Calculus in high school. So, he is getting college acceptances but he is not being accepted into the engineering department at those colleges. In most of the acceptances letters the colleges explain how he can get into the engineering department after completely his freshman year of college.

[kdeunc]

In our system the teacher made recommendations but the parents had the ultimate say. This was not advertised to the parents. We chose to make sure that DS1 (9th grade) was in Honors Math 2 and Chemistry this year. The school was pushing all of the students toward a science that was not going to help him get where he wanted to be in relation to science and math. If I were you I would push for him to be in Math 2. Good Luck. High School is so much different than when I was a student!

[Kindra178]

My good friend's ds who is currently a senior, did not take Calculus in high school. So, he is getting college acceptances but he is not being accepted into the engineering department at those colleges. In most of the acceptances letters the colleges explain how he can get into the engineering department after completely his freshman year of college.

Coming here to post this. Why rush? I would let him start with the math he was recommended for - hs is a big transition. If he takes the easier math, I see two benefits. First, he can focus on his other classes and get the A in Math 1 without as much effort. Second, I have heard of a few kids who do double math (two years accelerated, so algebra 1 in 6th grade, bc calc as a sophomore) who get derailed along the way because they are missing some skills they should have been taught in prior years but they skipped those. So much unnecessary stress, for what?

I know a cardiac surgeon from my high school. He never took one AP class in school. He wasn't on the calculus track, never took AP or Honors science. He went to a large state university, took some classes over the summer and graduated college in 4.5 years. He had a nice break between college and medical school (9 months) - he worked and volunteered. He told me that he avoided the whole rat race by doing it how he did. He didn't take organic chem with 500 kids. Because he was a year behind, he ended up taking it over the summer. He didn't know as many people, it was a small class and he got an a. Also, being a year or so behind in the sciences/math got him a year at college to adjust to the rigors of college. He got his partying out of his system and he learned how to study at the college level. He was also more mature. If maturity is potentially an issue for your ds, maybe let him have that extra time to grow.

[vonfirmath]

Our district offers three ways to get ahead in math in middle and high school, maybe one of these would be available to you? 1. Take a math class via Virtual Academy online. It is offered through the school year and during the summer term. Students can complete Algebra 1, Geometry, or Algebra 2. It does require focus and effort on the student's part to pace themselves, work quickly enough to finish on time, and not procrastinate. 2. Similar to #1, there is an intensive summer program that allows a student to complete one math or science course. It's eight hours a day for four weeks, and free to in-district students. 3. Students with high test scores and teacher recommendation can take both Geometry and Algebra 2 in 9th grade. Our school offers it where Geometry is taken in the first semester, and Alg 2 in the second, but I know of districts that offer them concurrently. This option does require students to drop one elective to make room for the extra math.

When I was in High SChool, I took Geometry in Summer school. Is that an option?

[jenmcadams]

When I was in High School, I took Geometry in Summer school. Is that an option?

I did the same thing because my middle school didn't offer Algebra 1 and it was the only way to get to Calculus. Sounds like OPs school system is using the Math 1, 2, 3 common core curriculum (which basically does an integrated approach to Alg 1, Geometry and Alg 2 over the three years), so it might be tough to just take Geometry (Algebra might be easier this summer). As a math person, I love the new approach because I think leaving Algebra for a year during Geometry means that the first third of Alg 2 in a traditional program is review. My son's private school does this now for all kids except the accelerated kids (because the class size expands at HS and so many kids coming in from public school have been on a traditional path and were accelerated and took Geometry in 8th, they still keep the accelerated kids on a traditional path). My son is uber accelerated in Math, so he's taking Geometry as a 7th grader and that Geometry class is the only Geometry class in the whole school (middle & high). Next year he'll take an Advanced Algebra (basically Alg 2 Honors class) at the high school which is all the freshmen who were accelerated in middle school (both current students and new students to private school).

If the OPs son does go straight to Math 2, maybe he could take a regular Algebra 1 course online or through a distance learning program (Art of Problem Solving is rigorous, but awesome and both BYU and Stanford offer online math courses that we know kids have taken).

[vonfirmath]

I agree with all of this - if he's been acing math this year and needs the challenge, that alone is enough, but the college prep and HS track issue is just as big a deal. If he's interested in selective colleges and his HS has a fair number of kids taking Calculus, I have to disagree with PPs and say that it is a somewhat big deal not to take it. Again, it doesn't mean that he won't get in to those colleges if he doesn't take it, but it will be more difficult (especially because of his interest in science). Many kids interested in science/math will have two years of Calc in HS (I was a math major and was unusual in that I only took AB). My DD is even more accelerated in Math (maybe shouldn't have been given how hard PreCalc Honors has been for her as a sophomore) and she could take Calculus BC as a Junior and then take Multivariate as a Senior. She had a tough time with the trig part of this year (although the Calc stuff is going better), but we're still going to have her take Calc AB as a Junior (track is to skip AB if you're in honors) and wait and see about Senior year. My DD goes to a pretty average, diverse public high school (graduating class of 300) and while there are only a handful of kids on her track, there are probably at least 30 kids in the "regular accelerated" track who will all take Calc by senior year.

I say all this to emphasize that if your child isn't currently challenged and has these science/math aspirations, it's worth pursuing the Math 2 placement (or finding an alternative way through an online class to get him back on the track to Calc by senior year)

Its not exactly skipping Calculus AB to take BC. Calculus BC teachers everything in Calculus AB the first semester and then goes on to the second part 2nd semester. So if you take AB and then BC the first semester is review.

[amyx4]

[B][QUOTE=Kindra178;4290262]Coming here to post this. Why rush? I would let him start with the math he was recommended for -

I wasn't encouraging rushing when I gave the example of my ds's friend who didn't "catch-up" until the summer before Senior year.

OTOH, I also gave the example of current expectations to get into the engineering department at our StateU. For some families there are financial considerations to taking extra semesters to graduate college.

[Percycat]

I would contact the Math Department Chairperson at the high school and his high school counselor by email and request your DS be tested to see if Math 1 or Math 2 is more appropriate. I would rather DS skip Math 1 than skip pre-calc because 1) I assume pre-calc would involve more new material that hasn't been covered as much in earlier classes and 2) he will be going through the curriculum with a consistent group of students from the beginning of HS, instead of skipping to a new group of students for his last year of math classes, and 3) the math skills will help him be more successful in the science classes.

If DS is motivated, have him practice on Kahn academy before the test to make sure he remembers all of his skills.

If based on the assessment it is recommended he take Math 1, I would have him take Math 1. A good math foundation is important.

We are facing similar delimas with my children. It is hard ignore the prejudice of "advaced track" and focus on which classes will best meet my child's needs. Best wishes.

[jenmcadams]

Its not exactly skipping Calculus AB to take BC. Calculus BC teachers everything in Calculus AB the first semester and then goes on to the second part 2nd semester. So if you take AB and then BC the first semester is review.

You're totally right - I misspoke there. For my DDs school, the PreCalc Honors course actually covers all of Trig/PreCalc in the Fall and this semester is almost all the "A" part of Calculus (basically they describe it as the 1/3 of a year long college calculus course and then the BC course at our highschool covers the other 2/3 of college calc year 1). Some kids will go to BC next year, but we decided to have her do AB since I wanted her to finally slow down and get a little repetition. My DD is a good example of a kid who probably shouldn't have been quite as accelerated as she was. She gets good grades and tested GT for Math, but still doesn't get Math the way some kids do. She's a lot like me - I have a Math degree, loved Calculus and the first few years of college math, but wasn't as intellectually capable as some of my classmates when we got to the hardcore theory. My DD will not pursue anything math or science related in college, so this makes sense for her.

My son takes after my late DH who had a PhD in Physics from Caltech. He just gets math - I've tried to slow him down several times and keep hoping he'll come across something that trips him up , but he's got more of that natural math talent and while I'm watching carefully to make sure he's not over-accelerated, I think he's getting what he needs.

Ultimately, I think that's what everyone is saying here is that OP should feel good about advocating for what her DS needs especially given his interest in math/science

[vonfirmath]

You're totally right - I misspoke there. For my DDs school, the PreCalc Honors course actually covers all of Trig/PreCalc in the Fall and this semester is almost all the "A" part of Calculus (basically they describe it as the 1/3 of a year long college calculus course and then the BC course at our highschool covers the other 2/3 of college calc year 1). Some kids will go to BC next year, but we decided to have her do AB since I wanted her to finally slow down and get a little repetition. My DD is a good example of a kid who probably shouldn't have been quite as accelerated as she was. She gets good grades and tested GT for Math, but still doesn't get Math the way some kids do. She's a lot like me - I have a Math degree, loved Calculus and the first few years of college math, but wasn't as intellectually capable as some of my classmates when we got to the hardcore theory. My DD will not pursue anything math or science related in college, so this makes sense for her.

My son takes after my late DH who had a PhD in Physics from Caltech. He just gets math - I've tried to slow him down several times and keep hoping he'll come across something that trips him up , but he's got more of that natural math talent and while I'm watching carefully to make sure he's not over-accelerated, I think he's getting what he needs.

Ultimately, I think that's what everyone is saying here is that OP should feel good about advocating for what her DS needs especially given his interest in math/science

Definitely. IF he wants science, he needs to accelerate the math to take the higher science classes. THis is the basis of what the program my son is in is doing -- accelerating the math first so they can get to sciences later on that need the higher math level.