"Scouts: BSA" ??

[NCGrandma]

Lots of news coverage today about the Boy Scouts' plan to include girls, starting with Cubs.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/us/bo...rnd/index.html

One story that I can’t find now implied that there would be separate 'tracks' or troops or something for boys and girls, but both would be eligible to work for Eagle Scout rank.

Any thoughts, especially from the many avid Girl Scout folks here? (I’m just curious—my DGDs are active in 4-H, so this doesn’t directly affect them.)


Sent from my iPad using Baby Bargains

[Dayzy]

I'm a Cub Scout leader and a Girl Scout mom.
First, the part about including girls happened months ago. Today's news of changing the name is just bringing it all up again.
Next, for Cubs it will either be girls and boys in the same Pack with girl dens and boy dens, or separate girl and boy Packs, or no girls at all - all of which is up to the leadership and chartered organization. For the "scouts" level, boys and girls will be in separate troops. They will have the same rank requirements and opportunities. Lastly, girls have always been welcome in the BSA by joining Venture Crews when they reach 14.

That being said, my daughter likes both Cubs and GS. They are different programs and she wants to do both. Her GS troop does a lot of arts and crafts, they have tea parties and bingo nights, and she has fun there and makes new friends. In Cubs we go camping about 3-4 times a year. We hike and go fishing, rock wall climbing, and shoot off rockets. I don't see it as a competition, but for girls who want to do something more than GSUSA is offering, then there's an option.

[TwinFoxes]

I really hate this notion that Girl Scouts make lanyards while Boy Scouts camp. My DDs have camped since they were Daisys. We do pinewood derby, our last outing was hiking around wetlands, one of my DDs led a geocaching meeting. Every comments section on articles about BSA accepting girls has something about "finally girls can do the fun stuff". While their troop does some crafty stuff, it's not like that's all they do. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box. But, like I said a few months ago, my DDs are proud GIRL scouts.

[AngB]

I have 3 boys so this doesn't really affect me a ton but I love this change. I was in a bad girl scout troop as a kid and all we did was boring arts and crafts type crap and after a couple years I dropped out. I would have loved to be in a better troop and/or have the option to do more active things. (My focus ended up going to sports which was fine.)

[Reyadawnbringer]

I have a son in cub scouts, but I'm also a cub scout leader. Here is my take on it.

At first, I was very apprehensive. I want a place where my son can be a boy and not worry about girls. I also felt like Girl Scouts should be good enough to handle the girls, so why change things?

But then I started looking at the research that BSA used to make this decision and it was very compelling. The research echoed what I was personally seeing in my own pack. Families are facing an increasing strain on their time. With two parent working households becoming the norm, it is hard to pitch a program to a parent that will often times require them to volunteer in some way but not include the whole family. Sign ups every year for my pack exceed expectations, but with our pack serving a high percentage of economically disadvantaged families, we end up seeing a lot of attrition.

This is not for lack of Pack leadership or lack of events or exciting things for the kids to participate in. It's literally a logistics issue. Currently, Cub Scouts is a family affair. It always has been. So girls have already been participating, they just haven't been able to receive recognition for their participation. What message is that sending ALL the kids? "You're good enough to participate, but not to be recognized because you aren't a boy? Don't like it? Go to Girl Scouts."

Now with BSA moving toward a family scouting environment, families will have an option that can involve BOTH of their kids. A one stop shop so to speak.

So back to my own feelings. I was on the fence about it all. I decided to ask some of the parents of my son's friends and even asked my son how he felt about maybe having girls in the pack with us. The responses I got were overwhelmingly positive. Though I had reservations, my son was eager to sign his girl friends up so they could adventure together. I had several of the parents of those girl friends asking when they could sign their daughters up. Obviously, I had a hang up over something that our own boys were not concerned about.

Now, I know several die hard Girl Scout families, and even families who tried GS and it didn't work out for them. Here are my observations on that. Many of my closest friends have had a hard time getting into an existing girl scout troop. If you can't get into one, then you have to try and make your own troop and I had friends who did that as well. From my own limited understanding of the structure of Girl Scouts it has a community which covers a large region (for example the San Jacinto Council which seems to cover an area so vast that it covers troops in my neighborhood but also troops from my cousins area over 2 hours away). Under the community are the individual troops which seem to typically include girls in the same age or grade. I see troops that work extremely well. They do amazing fun things that challenge them as much as cub scouts if not more. But, I have also seen troops that get stuck in arts and crafts and cookie selling modes. I also saw a troop completely disintegrate in one year because the leaders got overwhelmed and there were no other parents willing or able to step up.

A cub scout pack or troop is organized differently. The pack is governed by a charter organization. This charter organization is the group that ultimately is responsible for the pack or troop. The pack and Troop fall under a district and each district falls under a council. In our case, our pack serves two elementary schools. Our charter organization is the school PTO, though a charter can be held by a company, an HOA, a church, etc. A bunch of packs and troops in this immediate area fall under a district. That district has its own leadership which helps oversee all the packs and troops. Then the greater conglomerate of districts will fall under a council (in our case the Sam Houston Area Council) which covers the greater Sam Houston Area. The council has its own leadership which takes direction directly from BSA and helps govern the districts and the packs.

My point in talking so much about how each group is structured is because for our particular pack, we have boys from grades 1-5 from two different elementary schools. Each grade level has their own den (each den being the equivalent size of an average girl scout troop). This means that for our pack, we have many trained leaders who not only help run the dens, but we have committee leaders who run the pack, and the support of the charter organization, plus the district and council. Our pack has been in existence for 37 years, even though leaders will move on with their own kids. There is a level of support and continuity that I haven't seen my own friends have through girl scouts.

I know that under our current pack structure, if a leader quits or is unable to cover a meeting we have many other trained leaders who can fill in or take over to keep things moving. In fact, that's kinda my job as a pack Cubmaster.

The friends of mine who have boys in cub scouts and girls in girl scouts have told me that they don't see a conflict between the two programs because they offer different things.

The way BSA intends to implement the addition of girls to the program still maintains a single gender structure by allowing girls to be in the same pack as boys, but in their own dens. I have my own opinions about that, but they are minor and not worth mentioning. My point is, everyone can benefit from a youth development program like scouting. BSA saw a need and decided to give people another option. After very careful consideration, I don't see a problem with this.

Sorry for the long rambling post, it's late and I'm typing on my phone on my way to bed, lol.

DS1 - 9!
DS2- Expected 07/18

[Globetrotter]

I agree, Twinfoxes! Our girl scout troop did a wide variety of things, including camping, sporty/adventure activities, STEM events, and also the stereotypically girly stuff. It's up to the girls to decide what interests them, so it will vary. I see a huge advantage to having a separate organization for girls (or people who identify as such) and a focus on girl power. Also, the GS culture is very inclusive of LGBT individuals/religious groups, etc.., something we value.

PP made some good points. GS troops are VERY dependent on the leader, and it might be hard to find an open troop in your area. In our case, we went to the meeting hoping to join one but had to start it ourselves Sure, we could have worked harder to find a troop, but it worked out well for us, overall, and dd took full advantage of the opportunities, including mentoring younger girls and the Bronze, Silver, and Gold Awards. Her silver award experience led to her first job in high school, and ultimately inspired her college major.

Many troops dissolve due to burned out leaders, so I can appreciate the benefits of a large network. Sure, there is the council, but ultimately we are responsible for our own troop. Some leaders are very active, and others are laid back, and the tone depends a lot on the leadership and the girls involved. If the girls just want to do arts and crafts, and the leaders don't encourage them to do other things, you could get stuck in that rut. We had a very different experience, though, as the girls had varied interests and we introduced them to a variety of activities.

DS tried out cub scouts one year and didn't like it, so he quit. I remember being bothered by a (gun) shooting range at one of their events. I don't remember the details, but I wasn't comfortable with ds doing it.
Some of his friends have taken full advantage of BSA and had a great experience. Like most things, you get out of it what you put into it.

Personally, I see no reason for my dd to have joined BSA, but if a girl doesn't fit in their local GS, I suppose it's good to have options.

[anonomom]

I think it's fine that BSA is allowing girls (though I think it's silly that they segregate them). For families who aren't excluded by BSA's discriminatory policies, I think it can be a fun, positive option and I'm pretty much in favor of kids having plenty of options.

However, I think the Girl Scouts is an amazing organization. While the troop leader is critically important, I have found that our local council tries really hard to make it easy for troops to do an incredible variety of activities. If we wanted to, our troop could spend pretty much every weekend doing a different activity; from camping to hiking to stem activities to exploring museums to rock climbing. There seems to be a patch or badge for pretty much anything you could think of to do, and girls may even create their own badge if they have something they don't see addressed. As a troop co-leader, I'll admit that sometimes we don't take full advantage of everything we have available, but the resources are definitely there for the taking.

[AnnieW625]

Both my DH and I are members of single sex volunteer organizations (my DH Is in the Knights of Columbus, and I am in the Junior League) so I definitely see the benefit to this type of organization.

I find Girl Scouts frustrating because of the lack of location of troops in my area and if your school doesn’t have one you have to start it yourself and it just seems so unfriendly and hard to start. If I want a troop for my daughters I have to start one. I did get an email recently from our local council wanting to know of my child’s interest as she was previously in a Daisy troop at her school but it hasn’t been active and I said I would like to have her placed in a troop but I haven’t heard back yet.

I would like my daughters to be part of some sort of volunteer organization though so maybe I will look at BSA, but to be honest I really would like for them do Girl Scouts.

I agree that I think the perceived gender roles of Girl Scouts is very out of date.

I also want to say that I had a positive experience with BSA when my brother was a member and it is a family organization.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[California]

Makes complete sense to me to include the whole family, as so many of the cub activities are sibling-friendly. When DS was in cub scouts my DDs were welcome at campouts, special events, and special merit badge days. (And in our troop, at least, the leaders would often get extra patches to give the girls.) We all enjoyed that aspect of the organization. My experience is limited to my DS' troop, and in that one troop I did notice a culture of sexism among some of the boys. We had women leaders and that didn't matter- some of the boys seemed to assume that girls were weaklings and Girl Scouts was all about crafts and cookies. If more boys learn that girls are quite capable at all outdoor sports, too, it could help our overall culture.

GS has been a great experience for our girls. Annie's absolutely right that it's dependent on having strong volunteer leadership. DD2's experience has been quite different than DD1. And due to a lack of volunteers, there is not enough space for all the girls who would like to be Girl Scouts at our local elementary school. The Boy Scouts, on the other hand, have volunteers who stay with their packs even after their kids are grown up, and are able to welcome all boys who are interested.

[nfceagles]

I don’t have a problem with single gender organizations existing but I also don’t have a problem with the Boy Scouts adapting to better meet the needs of today’s families.

My DS’s experience with cub scouts and my DDs experience with GS’s has been very consistent with the stereotypes. Camping and outdoor skills versus arts and crafts and tea parties. Regardless my DD has loved GS so we stay. They added a pinewood derby a few years ago and it is a joke compared to our Cub Scout derby. No weight limits, has to be made from recycled material, and the awards are all for fluffy stuff. No learning the physics of weight distribution and minimizing friction. I don’t complain outside of this conversation because I don’t believe in complaining about what I’m not willing to do myself and I’m already too consumed by the volunteer needs of another youth organization who volunteer for GS.

I received an email yesterday from the head of our state’s GS. It really didn’t sit well with me. It was pretty scathing about the “Scouts” and their attempts to gain ground in the GS’s current realm. I think the GSs are in a weird situation. Used to siding with women on feminist issues they’re now trying to defend themselves against an organization looking to be more inclusive of girls and teach girls great things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk