Which attorney for a parent with a HUGE amt of credit card debt but has some assets?

[jerseygirl07067]

We will need these assets for her long term care. My mom has been in the hospital and then to rehab since August 2nd. (My original post is here http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/sho...id-you-resolve) She has dementia and I am her POA. I have finally gotten on as POA for all of her banks, institutions, credit cards, etc. It was like a full time job making the calls, sending in all of the forms and copies, etc.

In a nutshell, due to her dementia she has 41K of credit card debt and owes 20K on a car that is only worth 16K. She does have some assets, but those may be needed to pay for her long term care, and if she lives to be 90+ we will definitely need to hold on to as much of them as possible. A lot of her credit card debt was accumulated through auto ship and calling 1-800 psychic type services. In the month of July alone she spent $1600 on 1-800 psychic services. She would call in and then forget that she callled, so she'd call in again, or she'd keep paying for extra time and likely was asking the same questions over and over again.

Since my mom does have some assets, I would like inquire about all of my options, including negotiation of the amount. (Dogmom I believe gave me some good info about negotiating with them in my original post.) A lot of it is what I believe to be fraudulent activity, so I would like them to reverse those charges first, then negotiate, since that will bring the amount due down to a much lower amount. This is important since she will have to pay taxes on what they write off. I had also been told by another attorney a while back not to pay it at all because many of her assets may be protected, but I had to find out more about her assets first.

I would like to seek the formal advice of an attorney, but don't know which type to see. I was very frustrated today after I went to one that was highly recommended in our area. I specifically stated what type of legal advice I was looking for, and that my mom already had her estate planning done in 2013, and I just wanted to know what was the best legal option regarding her debt. But they sent me to an estate planning attorney anyway, and I don't feel she was a good fit at all. The consultation was a complete waste of time and I left very frustrated. So annoyed right now.

Any advice on what type of attorney to see for this? An Elder Care Attorney? Bankruptcy attorney? (though my mom has enough assets that she would not have to do this). I just want to move on and have the right plan going forward.

[dogmom]

My MIL had no assets, just social security. So I drafted a letter basically saying she can’t pay, she has no assets and they can’t contact her and we sent it to each credit card company and they stopped. She has poor credit now, who cares. I lot will determine on what assets there are and what your individual state’s laws are. Find out what your’s are on th states websites. I found it easier to deal with creditors when I sounded knowlegable. What you can do right now as POA is get all the statements for past 12 mo and dispute all that you can. At the same time you can freeze all the cards. You will have to fax them a POA. Be polite, business like, but a hard ass. If you think there’s is enough to pay of 10-20% of if you can offer them that AFTER you start disputing charges. You shouldn’t be paying interest/fees on these automatic charges. A lot will depend on which credit card company you work with how big of jerks they are going to be. Make sure you say you are putting her in long term care. They all know that money will be coming out of the pot before their unsecured debt, it’s not like they can reposses the psychic readings.

I would ask friends if they have any experience with this and recommendations for lawyers. This is no time to be shy. You might be better off starting with a bankruptcy lawyer for a consult just to see how that would work for your mom. Also if you have an elder affairs person in the town contact them. They may have suggestions. DO NOT use the standard credit affair help people. Most of those places are funded by the credit card companies and they will always want you to pay it off and preserve your credit rating so you can borrow again.

A lot depends on what your mothers living situation is going to be. Is she going to a retirement home? Staying in her house? You can always stop paying then it’s up to them to seize assets, which is not as easy as it sounds. There is a good chance you can get the same result for filing bankruptcy without actually doing it.

[JustMe]

First of all, I wanted to say I am sorry about all that you are going through!

After my mom died and before my father died, we used an attorney who had specializations in both estate planning and elder law. Our situation was a little bit different in that my father had huge medical bills and some money, but not a lot. He was able to negotiate the bills down to very little and transfer most of the money my father had left to my sister and I, which was what we all wanted (this enabled my dad to qualify for various services).

[hillview]

When my father died he left a lot of credit card debt. My mom had no assets to speak of (she has a car worth maybe $25k that we gifted to them and she lives rent free and has about 5k in a bank account at any given time). While the accounts were joint we didn't pay and we told the credit card companies she couldn't pay. They never came after her. At the time I looked for lawyers and never found anyone who fit this profile.

[jerseygirl07067]

Thanks everyone, I am looking up the statutes in greater detail and will be consulting with another attorney this week on the best course of action. There was a really good one recommended to me who does Elder Law but has dealt with this before as well. The biggest thing I need to check on is that her assets are protected if we don't pay. If some are not, then I will likely fight the fraud, get the amount down first, and then negotiate to pay a small amount of it, hopefully I don't even need to do that.

I'll keep you posted!

[nfceagles]

Assuming you have her best interests at heart and you aren’t just trying to rob her and I believe you do, you might want to look into how much she can gift you each year so that some of those assets become yours before they could come after her. For example, can she give you and and your DH 10k each this year and another 10k each in January 2019. I don’t know the exact answer but another strategy to consider.


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[JustMe]

Thanks everyone, I am looking up the statutes in greater detail and will be consulting with another attorney this week on the best course of action. There was a really good one recommended to me who does Elder Law but has dealt with this before as well. The biggest thing I need to check on is that her assets are protected if we don't pay. If some are not, then I will likely fight the fraud, get the amount down first, and then negotiate to pay a small amount of it, hopefully I don't even need to do that.

I'll keep you posted!

Good luck with the attorney. The one we used as I described in my post was excellent. He was the one who instructed us on strategies, etc. It was well-worth what we paid him. He or she should be able to tell you what kind of plan or strategy they recommend and what the pros and cons are.

[NCGrandma]

Assuming you have her best interests at heart and you aren’t just trying to rob her and I believe you do, you might want to look into how much she can gift you each year so that some of those assets become yours before they could come after her. For example, can she give you and and your DH 10k each this year and another 10k each in January 2019. I don’t know the exact answer but another strategy to consider.


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Obviously there may be other considerations in determining how much she can give you and your DH, but the IRS limit on gifts (before the gift is taxable ) has finally increased. In 2018, it is now $15k per recipient. If you want to look at the official IRS info, look for "annual exclusion."

However, I agree with recommendations to talk with a knowledgeable attorney who can advise on strategies and pitfalls. (You wouldn’t want her creditors to try to come after you, claiming that the gifts represented a fraudulent attempt to avoid legitimate debts. No idea if this might really happen.)


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[jerseygirl07067]

Obviously there may be other considerations in determining how much she can give you and your DH, but the IRS limit on gifts (before the gift is taxable ) has finally increased. In 2018, it is now $15k per recipient. If you want to look at the official IRS info, look for "annual exclusion."

However, I agree with recommendations to talk with a knowledgeable attorney who can advise on strategies and pitfalls. (You wouldn’t want her creditors to try to come after you, claiming that the gifts represented a fraudulent attempt to avoid legitimate debts. No idea if this might really happen.)


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That is exactly what I want to be careful of.

[icunurse]

Assuming you have her best interests at heart and you aren’t just trying to rob her and I believe you do, you might want to look into how much she can gift you each year so that some of those assets become yours before they could come after her. For example, can she give you and and your DH 10k each this year and another 10k each in January 2019. I don’t know the exact answer but another strategy to consider.


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You need to be very careful about ANY gifts from your Mom to anyone. When applying for the nursing home for my Mom, they (the government, not the facility) wanted 5 years of all financial documents and anything gifted over a certain amount would be investigated. It doesn’t make sense, as we had no idea even a year before that my Moms health would decline so quickly. But the government wants to make sure that you aren’t hiding funds to pay for the nursing home. They could refuse to assist with anything. And nursing homes are costly, few people can pay completely out of pocket for very long, if at all.

Since my dad was still alive, we consulted with an Elder Law attorney and receive excellent information on how to protect some assets for my Dad. The system is very confusing and I highly recommend someone in Elder Law to guide you. I’m guessing this won’t be their first time dealing with a situation like yours.