Babies and school

[babystuffbuff]

I hope this is an okay question to post here. DH and I have been TTC for a little while now, but we have been hit with a few big curveballs in other areas of life. Things are finally settling down, however, I have unexpectedly stumbled onto an excellent grad school program that I am really interested in. I work more than full-time for some very (self-)important people. The grad program is accommodating of that; I would have classes probably two nights a week. Besides sounding really interesting, the degree would improve my advancement opportunities/earning potential and allow me to switch from administrative work to more policy-orientated work, which I would love.

The thing that is making me hesitate is that I don't want to wait another two years to finally get pregnant with what would hopefully be the first of several children. But with my job, where long hours are unpredictable, and DH's job, where long hours (and travel during fall and spring) are standard, I'm not sure it would work to add in school, even part-time, and an exhausting, needy (but much loved and wanted) infant. DH does have a very light/flexible schedule in summer, and my work slows to a trickle during August, but I wouldn't have classes then.

Any advice? I would be 30 when I graduated, DH would be 41. Hardly ancient but my mom had two kids by 29! (Not that that is a time table I need to/should follow, of course, it's just strange to think about.) She also got a degree when I was a baby, but she was doing daycare in our house and didn't have to worry about childcare for me, or work emails at 8 PM. I have a feeling this is one of those "you can't have everything" situations but would appreciate some thoughts from the wise moms and dads here.

[newg]

How long would the grad school take to complete (fastest and slowest time frame)? I'm assuming you aren't prego yet....so if you started the classes now while you are still ttc.....(don't know your history with that either....took dh and me almost a year)....plus the nine months you will be prego.......could you finish grad school before the baby is born? do you have friends and family around that could help watch the baby if you have a few months left after your dc is born?
What are you planning on doing once you have a dc....in terms of work?

I started my masters over five years ago and for the past three years have had "one class left"......work and baby jumped in the way (and I'm not complaining!!)..I'm a SAHM now and don't plan on using my degree to further my career, but the other night dh asked me if I would want to finish it, just so I can actually have my masters and be done with it, and on the off chance I want to go back to work when kids are older........so I think that's what I"m going to do; but I have family close by that can watch dd (who is now 14 months) on the evenings I have class and dh can't watch her.

I think it would be possible to do both, you'll just have to be on top of things......I had a mentor once tell me she went for her masters after her kids were older...and everyone kinda suffered 'till she was done because she was working full time, going to class, coming home and doing homework....kids and dh kinda got put on the back burner....I guess getting it while kids are still babies would be easier on them.....they won't remember you sitting at a computer instead of playing with them.....in fact it's probably easier to manage with a baby then a toddler or older child.

And I don't think it matters how old you are when you start to have kids.....how far apart you want to have them may be something to consider though....if you start having kids at 30 and have them close together (depending on how many) you'd be done by 35.......I'll be 30 this summer and we've just started our family and want to keep growing....with about 2-3 yrs. inbetween each kid.....

Just some thoughts...good luck!!

[ha98ed14]

I throw in my 2 cents. Sounds like you work in policy/ politics. I did too. I completely understand about the self-important people you work for. Mine had such a sense of entitlement, it was rediculous. I also did grad school for a masters in my policy area, altho I was not working. I did it as a FT student.

Personally I think you're biting off way more than you can chew to try to do grad school and work for the puffed up people you work for and be pregnant/ have an infant. Pregnancy can be exhausting at times. Having a new baby is life-changing in lots of good ways, but in the beginning you really are in crisis/ survival mode. I can't imagine having to be responsible for anything else other than the baby for at least 2 months. 4 weeks in August is gonna fly by. And you will be playing the odds that you can get preg at the right time to have the baby at the beginning of Aug. That may or may not happen.

Grad school can be very intense. Mine was. Also, the puffed up people will not wait. I was writing white papers at 11:30 on Sunday nights after having worked all weekend A LOT. If you have a job that you take home and your puffy people bosses expect that, don't think that their expectations are going to change if you have a baby. They won't be that flexible. Ultimately, you are replaceable. They care more about themselves (and their careers) than they do about you OR the work you are trying to get done. I'm a raging liberal, but I firmly believe that politicans do not really believe in the greater good enough to sacrifice themselves. So their sense of entitlement isn't going away. You will be expected to balance everything in your personal life (including school) and keep doing the same job you are doing.

I think you have to choose between two of three. I can see working and having a baby or going to school and having a baby or working and school, but not all three. You're quality of life will be utter sh!t if you do all three.

The other thing I would ask you to think about is, if you want to have several children, do you want to/ plan to stay home. If yes, then maybe grad school is not worth it to you right now. You could keep working and have your kids and then stay home after the youngest is born and go to school or start grad school when when DC are starting pre/K school and go back to work after finishing grad school. Right now I am doing the SAHM thing to 2. y.o. DD and going to school (again). It is very workable IF you can find good, reliable, affordable childcare. This has been a challenge for us.

The other thing I will add that I didn't know before having DD is this: I always thought DD would be fine wherever I put her and things would be flexible with her and where she went to daycare. Reality is that babies and kids have needs you would not even think of before you have one of your own to experience it. Those needs may or may not be the expected ones in the books and the solutuons may or may not work. Having some flexability in your life to meet those needs as they come up is really important. It means that when your kid wakes up puking, you don't freak out because of that 9:00 presentation you have to miss or DH has to miss.

Anyway, that is just my experience/ perspective. Good luck. It's not an easy choice. FWIW, I thought my situation would work out smoothly. It didn't in part because I had a DD born with a birth defect needing surgery at 9 months and now she has a speech delay. I realized I am never going to be able to work like I used to AND be there to meet her needs. So I decided to change careers. That is the ony way *I* could envision my life with DD and not be constantly stressed out about neglecting my job or my kid.

[MontrealMum]

I think that juggling a grad program, even part time, with your particular job is going to be too much - w or w/o an infant. A little background on me: I have a 20 month old, have just completed my 2nd Master's program and have 2 chapters to go w/ my PhD disseratation which I plan to finish this summer. I work pt (very pt) and DS has been in daycare for the past year. We are lucky that DH was able to take paternal leave for the 1st year (for some days) as we live in Canada. Also, we have some help from our IL's. But still, trust me, it's a lot to be juggling. I felt I had to go for ttc because I was 35 at the time and wasn't getting any younger.

A few points to consider if you're still thinking of trying to do it all:
-what is the time limit on this grad program for part time students? (they nearly all have a time limit)
-is it possible to drop down to no classes one semester if necessary?
-if you ramp it up to full time one semester because your schedule permits it, will you then lose your p/t status and have to complete the whole degree faster? (again, many schools have rules about this)
-have you checked out daycare? Regardless of the astronomical cost in the US (which is another concern) there are looooong waiting lists in many places. As in, you may be stuck home with DC for up to a year because you can't find a spot. That means no school OR work.
-what sort of sick leave do you/DH have; and what sort of support network do you have? You will have to arrange to be able to take off for a sick child - especially if they've started daycare - they get everything!
-are there other mature students or students with kids in this program? It's a real PITA to deal with group work when none of the other students have kids to contend with or a firm daycare pickup time that cannot be negotiated. You also cannot count on your profs being understanding of all that you're balancing, in fact, if you are open about all you're doing, it may actually be detrimental to their opinions of you - academics like people who are focused - on academia. Not saying that's right, but divinding your attention between their program, your job and a kid may not be looked upon too kindly.
-have you thought about what you would do if you get put on bed rest for your pregnancy, or if there are other complications that cause you to start your mat leave early?
-how long is your mat leave? many women feel it takes them a good 3 months longer to recover than the 3 months max that most American women get.

If it were my choice, and this is just based on a quick reading of your post, I'd do the grad programme first, if you've got your heart set on it. Or I'd consider either switching jobs, quitting entirely, or trying to cut back your hours (sounds like that won't be allowed though ). Seriously, with the sort of job you're describing it does not sound like you would be able to do even p/t school, much less juggle the needs of a child. I think it's just too much at once. Grad school is a lot of hard work. It's not just going to class and sitting there for the time of the class period. You have to plan for all sorts of extras. HTH

ETA: I also know some women that have been able to juggle pretty intensive programs and high power careers with children, but they have DH's that were either able to be SAHDs or have very flexible jobs. They also had a lot of family support for those MANY emergency calls you have to respond to. Like the poster said below, you can have it all, just not all at once.

[mamalia]

I think it would be tough given both you and DH have demanding jobs. Here's my experience: I'm in an evening law school program. Almost went full-time, but in the end it didn't make sense for our situation. We have a 4yo and I am currently in my third trimester and second year of school (we knew going in that we would try for another). My experience has been that it is very draining to be pregnant and in school. Are grades important for your program? I did very well my first year, and I still did well in my first semester/first trimester this year, but my GPA did go down a tenth point. It was much harder balancing classes four days a night for four hours a day, while being nauseous and tired. I don't know if your grad school program will be as demanding as law school, but if it is, you will have a lot to balance while striving to do well. My DH has a demanding job. I left consulting (another demanding job) to become a SAHM when DD was an infant. During my first year of school DD was 2.5 so I was with her during the day, and had to do all my studying at night and on the weekend. I hardly got to see my DH (we would try to do lunch dates as a family). In your situation, you only have class two nights a week, but I still think it might be hard for you to fit in family time. This year DD is in preschool so that helps immensely because I study while she in school, and I can spend more time with the family. DH takes on a lot of family responsibilities, so another thing to think about is can your DH handle long work hours plus the demands of a young one? Next year, partly because DH knows he can't juggle an infant and a preschooler AND work, I will be taking a leave of absence. But to be honest, I felt comfortable making that decision because I have a full scholarship that can be deferred. I know that if I had gone the full-time route and I had loans to pay I would have been much more inclined to steam roll through school.

Some things to think about:
Could you finish your first year of grad school and then have the baby after seeing what the workload is like?
Have you thought about what the grad program prospects will be in two years? Or how it will add to your earning power?
How do you see your family dynamics over the years (but WARNING this can change once you have kids)? For example, do you both want demanding jobs and have good childcare prospects? Or will one of you prefer to shoulder childcare over job (or vice versa)?
Maybe start checking out childcare options near you to see what you are comfortable with and can afford? You can probably arrange tours of centers and homes without explaining in great detail your particular situation.

Some other experiences: I have a friend at school that has managed to juggle law school, three children, and a full-time demanding job for a large accounting firm. Her secret is to study on the weekends, and her DH is now a SAHD. Someone else has great family childcare, and so was able to balance school, brand new baby, and a job at a law firm. To me, the trend to balancing a lot at once is that you have good reliable childcare (like pp mentioned). But also don't underestimate that you/DH might change once you have your baby. I didn't realize how important it was to me to become a SAHM until after I had DD. And I am looking forward to a year off with the new baby, besides giving my brain and stress levels a much needed break, it will make bonding and breast feeding that much easier.

Lastly, when I was making a similar decision two years ago someone told me: You can have it all, but not all at once. To me this involves tinkering with your life goals till you reach the right balance for your current situation...then retinkering once you are ready for the next step. Good luck! Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be best for you and your family!

[vonfirmath]

We didn't have our first until I was 32 (almost 33.). And are having to wait now for more because my husband is starting a 2-year grad program and I am working full time. Luckily, he's old enough to put in childcare relatively affordably.

There is no way I would work "More than full time" AND go to grad school AND have an infant.

I think the first two are going to prove to be a hands ful situation by themselves.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I've always heard that you should only try to do ONE "big" life event at a time to stay sane and balanced - moving, going back to school, starting a new job, getting married, having a baby... Not to say that people don't do these things 2 at a time, but they are all HUGE in terms of your time commitment, mental stress, etc. So...if you do try to do all these things at once, be ready for a possible breakdown, depression, severe exhaustion, etc. I feel mental health is important.

Comparing yourself to your mom or others is not always a good thing. Yeah, my mom finished college in 3 years, got a master's while I was teensy, etc. BUT her marriage suffered and fell apart during that time. She ended up going all out for the career track, working toward her doctorate, etc, but her health, her next marriage, etc. all went downhill in the process.

DD is wanting a story now, or I'd write more, but I can't imagine doing a huge job AND school, much less adding a baby or even a pregnancy in the mix. I like sanity.

I did my graduate program full-time, then got married, starting having DC at 35, etc. It isn't a bad thing to wait...

[mommylamb]

I'm in the policy world too, and I think it would be really too tough to do grad school, full time job (plus some) and a baby at the same time. I'm fortunate because I work for an association, so for the most part I'm able to keep my hours to 40 a week. Hell, I couldn't even do grad school and work at the same time. Still have major loans to pay back...

Is it possible for you guys to swing grad school and have you not work?

FWIW, my grad degree looks good on my resume, but even though it's a public policy degree, I didn't learn anything there that was applicable to real life policy work. Also, I see a wide variety of school creds amongst the people I work with. Some are joint JD/MPP holders, others just have a BA. I think it's more about your work experience than anything.

[niccig]

Originally Posted by mamalia

Lastly, when I was making a similar decision two years ago someone told me: You can have it all, but not all at once. To me this involves tinkering with your life goals till you reach the right balance for your current situation...then retinkering once you are ready for the next step. Good luck! Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be best for you and your family!

I agree with retinkering as the situation changes.

When DS was born, I stayed at home with the understanding that I would look at my career options. I've done some part-time classes and it was a struggle with DS. I quickly learned that if I had an exam he would need extra attention on that day and the day before. He somehow knew my attention was elsewhere. Once DS started preschool, it was easier as I had block times to get things done. BUT then he would be sick, couldn't go to school and my plans were shot.

I would love to do my MA and PhD in a certain field, but the work will be difficult to juggle with family life. DH's work schedule is unpredicitable and often demanding with 10pm-12pm finishes once or twice a week. So I have rethought what I want from life, and having DS has changed some of what I want. It's also changed things for DH. Prior to his birth, DH wanted to keep climbing the ladder but it would mean every night home at 12pm and weekend work. He doesn't want that now. He wants more family time. A friend continued with climbing the ladder in the same field, he makes a lot more than DH, but he is never home. DH looks at that life and says he's glad he changed his mind. He makes enough for us to be comfortable and we get family time.

I'm now considering a Masters program in a related field to my dream course. BUT, it's fully online (from a reputable university), so I don't have to add in the commute to classes. I used to help design some online classes so I'm familiar with the challenges of that method of study. DS is also 4 years old and in Sept. he'll be at preschool 5 mornings a week. If I need to be online at certain times, I have a number of babysitters I can work with if DS needs care. Even then, I'm only going to start with one subject at a time and see how things go. It's going to take longer to do the course, but DS will suffer less fall out than if I was full-time.

I would really advise adding in just one change and see what the fall out is, before you add in the 2nd change. I think if you try to juggle demanding job, demanding study and demanding infant - and all infants are demanding in their needs - something will have to give, and it will likely be your sanity/health.

ETA. If it was me, I would do grad school BEFORE having children. Your DH can look after himself while you're studying, but young children can not. DS always needs me most,when I'm most busy with something else.

[babystuffbuff]

Wow, thank you all for your detailed, thoughtful responses! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share their experiences, and it is comforting to know that there are others who have struggled with the same choices. I had a feeling that the consensus was going to be that it would be too much, and these posts bear that out.

To try and answer some of the questions, first of all, I will still be working after having kids. For sure. Besides the fact that we need my salary (I make quite a bit more than DH and always will; his field just doesn't pay as well), staying home is just not for me. I love my job (well, not my current job, which is why I am looking at this degree - it's more that I love the institution). I have so many ideas, and so many things that I want to help fix. Ha98ed14, I am a raging liberal also, and I agree with what you said about politicians and the greater good. That's why they need staff who do believe in it enough to sacrifice themselves - otherwise nothing would get done. I hope I am/can be one of those people. DH has stated that he is open to staying home, but I would need to make more than I do now for that to be an option financially. Even with the insane cost of daycare in D.C., we would still be better off with both of us working at our current salaries. That's another reason for me to get this degree - having it could raise my earning power to the point where it would be possible for him to be at home.

I have checked out childcare somewhat. Being a Federal employee, there are a number of centers close by (both where I work, and at the various agencies) that I would be able to get into. They are expensive....but so are the non-Federal ones, and at least there would be the advantage of having the baby close by. DH's morning start time is later/much more flexible than mine, so that would help a bit. Unfortunately, we have no family nearby. The closest relatives are DH's parents, who live three hours away. My mother could come in the summertime (she is a teacher), which may or may not help depending on the timing of the birth (and my tolerance for having her around 24/7).

I will need to look more closely at the requirements to find out when the cutoff date is for finishing the degree. I went to an information session yesterday and they talked about how great the program was for working people, but I'm guessing they didn't mean working people with kids, or working people who WANT kids.

Also, I should mention that I don't take my work home with me. I have some early mornings but once I leave for the day, I don't have to do more work at home, or work on weekends.

Originally Posted by mommylamb

Is it possible for you guys to swing grad school and have you not work?

FWIW, my grad degree looks good on my resume, but even though it's a public policy degree, I didn't learn anything there that was applicable to real life policy work. Also, I see a wide variety of school creds amongst the people I work with. Some are joint JD/MPP holders, others just have a BA. I think it's more about your work experience than anything.

We couldn't survive financially without my salary. The student loans I'd have to take would be enormous.

I do agree that it's mostly about work experience. Except in my case I want to get away from admin work and break into the policy side of things, which I won't be able to do without some more education (my degree would be focused on the issue area I am interested in). Of course, getting the degree won't guarantee me the job that I want, but I pretty much have zero chance of it right now, and some chance is better than none. I could always just trudge along on my current track and keep doing admin work for the rest of my career, but I just don't feel ready to give up on doing what I really want yet. So I guess that means I'll have to sacrifice something else that I really want to try and get there. In the end, waiting another two years for kids would be worth it if I could spend the next 30+ in a job that I love.

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts - you have helped me to clarify mine.