New seat for 11 mo-old or for 4 yr-old? Latch limits for KIA?

[longtallsally05]

The only thing I know for sure is I'm in the market for a new carseat (or two). The question is, what seat for which child, and how to install it? Also, If anyone knows the LATCH limits for KIA, please let me know what they are! I want to own a primary car seat and a back-up car seat for each child.

The passengers: DD is almost 4 years old, 47 lbs and 43 inches tall. DS is 11 months old, probably 22 lbs and about 30 inches long.

Current seating: DD is FFing in the center in a Britax Boulevard (manufactured in 2006), top tethered and secured with LATCH; DS is in an outboard position RFing in a Cosco Scenera (manufactured in 2007), secured with LATCH. Both seats were installed in my parents car in another state prior to a road trip. The time has come to re-install in my new '09 KIA Rondo.

We have a Radian 80 for DD (bought to fit in a vehicle we formerly owned), but I can't get the Radian to fit properly in any of our current vehicles ('97 Pontiac Grand AM, '98 Buick LeSabre and '09 KIA Rondo) because the vehicle seatbelt stalks seem too long. LATCH can't be used with the Radian beyond 48 lbs, so I figure I should just use the seat belts. I can't find a certified technician around where I live to check whether or not the Radian is truly out of the question. Perhaps I'm just not doing it right, who knows?

I can't quite figure out LATCH as it relates to my Rondo. I can't find the LATCH weight limit in the owner's manual. The Rondo has lower anchors on both outboard positions (= a total of 4 anchors), but no dedicated anchors in the center seat. All three seating positions have tether spot. From what I can gather, if I put my children side by side (as I would prefer), only one seat could be installed with LATCH because you can't use anchors for more than one car seat at a time (per the Rondo owner's manual). The Rondo owner's manual doesn't say explicitly that LATCH can be used in all three seating positions, but the existence of the tether spots lead me to believe LATCH can be used in the center as well as the outboard positions.

Potential scenarios:

Somehow find a certified technician to install the Radian 80 (for DD) properly in my Rondo, and put DS in the Boulevard and hope that the Boulevard fits properly too. I'm sure I'd have to buy DS a new seat later because the Boulevard would surely expire before he outgrows it.

Or, Buy DS a new Britax Boulevard (or perhaps a First Years True Fit Premier...that Rebound Energy Management bar looks pretty cool) and let DD continue to sit in her Boulevard until she outgrows it or it ages out, and let the Radian 80 gather dust.

Or, buy DD a Graco Nautilus and move DS to our Boulevard and let the Radian 80 gather dust. I don't know how long DD could be harnessed in the Nautilus because she's pretty tall, but I'm not ready for her to sit in a booster. I also want to keep DD in the center seating position because it's my understanding that FFing children are less protected than RFing children, and I plan to keep DS RFing for at least another year and a half (ie until he reaches the height/weight limits for RFing in his car seat).

Sorry so long. Any suggestions? Your input is welcome, thanks!

[Joolsplus2]

No, you can't 'borrow' the LATCH for the middle spot, that top tether anchor is just provided to add safety to a forward facing, seatbelt installed seat. Without an explicit 'ok' in the manual, assume that it's NOT ok (if they are the wrong distance apart, it's possible the seat could fail in a crash, unfortunately, though Britax has liberal allowances so you haven't probably been putting anyone in danger by doing this, I would just stop doing it ASAP to be safest).
You don't have weight limits on your car, so you have to adhere to the car seat's stated limits (48 pounds for the Marathon, 40 pounds for the Frontier, 48 for the Nautilus, 48 for the Radian, etc).

Gosh, I'm late for work! I hope someone else can help you figure out the other issues (though the Nautilus is a lot higher than the Boulevard, a little higher than the Radian, it would last harnessed for several years, easy, and it's a breeze to install with seatbelts).

[KrisM]

For installing the Radian, did you try twisting the seatbelt stalk? You can twist it up to 3 full rotations to make it shorter. I have to do that to install in my car.

What about the current setup with Boulevard and Scenara isn't working? I wasn't clear on why you needed another seat at all.

[longtallsally05]

I just want to give DS a bit more comfort than the Scenera provides. There are no wings against which DS can rest his head while sleeping, plus there isn't much padding between the plastic shell and DS' head. I'd like to put DS in the Boulevard and keep the Scenera as a back up car seat for another vehicle. DD doesn't sleep in her carseat as much as DS does, so I'd like DD to be able to use her Radian as her primary seat and have something like the Nautilus as a back up. DD fits into the Boulevard well right now, but at the rate she is growing I think she'll outgrow it by height soon (she has long torso) and I know eventually I'll have to buy a booster.

Thanks for the info on LATCH installation; I won't install side by side with LATCH in the KIA. The seats are currently installed in a Buick; I'll double check to make sure they each have their own anchors & reinstall if necessary. As long as I'm using the seatbelt to install in the center seating position, I can use LATCH in one of the outboard positions (if LATCH provides a more snug fit). I'll go with the weight limits of each seat for LATCH.

I'll try twisting the seatbelt stalks when installing the Radian, as long as that is officially an OK thing to do. I never thought about twisting the stalks before because in the Radian manual it says to make sure the seatbelt lies flat & isn't twisted. Probably the manual is referring to just the portion of the seatbelt that passes through the belt path of the car seat? I'm still a little confused.

Thanks!

[jjordan]

Yeah, the Radian manual is referring to the part of the seatbelt going through the seat.

I think that you'll be able to get a good install by EITHER twisting the seatbelt stalk OR putting the entire buckle up into the belt path on the seat (either is okay). If the stalk is not long enough to go up into the belt path, it is likely short enough where twisting it will do the trick. On the other hand if it is too long for twisting to do the trick, then it will probably be long enough to go up into the belt path.

We have a very long belt stalk in the middle of our '99 altima, and I got a decent install by twisting the stalk 3 full twists. Someone else with my exact same car got a great install by getting the buckle all the way up into the belt path. Now, this was a RF installation and I haven't tried FF, but it still seems like either one or the other technique should work for long stalks.
Good luck!

[longtallsally05]

Here's how it all turned out.

The Britax Boulevard was IMPOSSIBLE to fit RFing in the Kia Rondo, so we ended up doing this:

Sunshine Kids Radian 80 FFing in passenger position, installed with seat belts and top tether.

Cosco Scenera RFing in center position, installed with seat belts only. The Scenera BARELY fit RFing in the center, and it was a pretty tight squeeze to get it next to the Radian. The front seat touches the top of the Scenera, but if I have the driver's seat any further back, it would be too uncomfortable to drive. I don't think it would install RFing next to a seat wider than a Radian.

I had the seats installed and double checked by two CPS technicians, so I know they are in there as best as they can possibly be. We'll just have to wait and see if we can use the Britax FFing in the Rondo someday.

I returned the Graco Nautilus I bought because the buckle kept sticking and I thought it would be unsafe in an emergency (what if I couldn't get DD out of the seat if there was a fire etc).

We're going to be on the hunt for an alternate arrangement soon, as DD is almost about to outgrow the harness height on the Radian 80 (and she only weighs 46 lbs)! I don't know what we're going to do. I guess I should've bought a bigger car.

I still haven't figured out what seats to use as back up in our secondary car. It looks like we'll get another Scenera. Isn't it crazy that the least padded, cheapest car seat we've ever owned is the one that has been the one we used the most? Funny, I would have bet money the best car seat for our money would've been the Britax, but nope!

[jjordan]

Thanks for the update!

Just checking, but you do know that the boulevard can be installed at a more upright angle than what is indicated by the line on the side of the seat, right? Did you try an upright install behind the passenger seat of your Rondo? (I guess you'd have to move the Radian to the driver's side.)

Glad you were able to get the Radian to work!

[longtallsally05]

Originally Posted by jjordan

Thanks for the update!

Just checking, but you do know that the boulevard can be installed at a more upright angle than what is indicated by the line on the side of the seat, right? Did you try an upright install behind the passenger seat of your Rondo? (I guess you'd have to move the Radian to the driver's side.)

Glad you were able to get the Radian to work!

We tried a more upright RF installation for the Boulevard in the center, but we still couldn't make it work; DH & I are both 6'2" and we need the driver's seat back pretty far in order to be able to drive comfortably. Plus, the baby's head still flops forward when he's asleep, so he needs his seat reclined.

We had to go with RFing baby in the center and DD on the passenger side for pre-school drop-off. At our pre-school, you aren't supposed to get out of your car; you pull up to the curb and staff comes & gets your child out of the car & walks them into the building. Strict rules, but it beats the heck out of parking the car & walking DD into the building while pushing the baby in a stroller (thru the rain, snow etc).

I am very concerned that I will have to switch DD to a booster soon because she isn't quite 4 years old and I would like to keep her harnessed for another year. I know the Regent has higher harness height than the Radian or a Nautilus, but I don't think a Regent would fit next to the RFing Scenera. DD is nearly at the top harness slot of the Radian, and I don't know what to do next. The Nautilus would keep her harnessed a little while longer, but soon we'd have to switch to the booster.

This may sound weird, but I'm concerned that once we switch to booster mode for DD, somebody will accidentally unbuckle the belt for the baby's Scenera, since the buckles are RIGHT next to each other. What a pain that is going to be.

Does anyone know the stats for the Sunshine Kids Monterrey booster? I'm thinking it will be narrow like the Radian (so it would probably fit width-wise), but how tall is it? The Nautilus looks like it can adjust pretty high upwards, so I'm looking for a comparison.

thanks!

[christiedavid3]

What about a Britax Frontier 85 for the 4 year old? I'm sure one of the techs will jump in.

It's being released in April. With that seat your older DC could stay in a 5 pt harness to 85 lbs.

[jjordan]

The Monterey booster is actually pretty wide, if you need something narrow the Britax Parkway might be a better bet.

How much room is left between your daughter's shoulders and the top slot on the radian? It can take a year or more to gain just an inch of torso height, so you may have longer than you think.