Flat Coat Retriever v Newfoundland

[BabyMine]

Some may remember my posts about finding another family dog. We searched and researched what kind of dog we wanted. After my trial and errors we settled on the Newfoundland. He was the perfect fit with his laid back personality and his XL size. We had been watching petfinder.com when one was listed without a picture. We rushed down to animal control and was surprised by what we found. He didn't have the fluffy hair the Newfoundlands are known for and he was on the small size for the age. The rescue director told us that he taught classes on breeds and knows the dog is a purebred Newfoundland. We were skeptic but thought the coat was normal for summer. We picked him up a couple days later and introduced him to our house.

He had a lot of behavior problems and was a puppy so we enrolled him in private obedience class. The trainer said there is no way he is a Newfoundland. I started researching and I think he is a flat coat retriever. She said she didn't think so becasue those are so rare.

From what I have read they are extremely hire energy dogs and the males only get to 70lbs. We will not get rid of him becasue he is our family member and we all love him but I don't know what to do with his energy level. We walk him twice a day and play with him but that doesn't seem to be enough. We crate him when we aren't home becasue he loves to get into everything and he barks all the time at night while we are watching TV. How do I know what dog I have and if he is a flat coat what can I do with his non stop energy? We still plan to adopt a Newfoundland in a couple of years but we sorta wish we would have known in advance what breed he is.

[bubbaray]

FCRs look a lot like a smaller, black Golden Retriever. About 70lbs for a male sounds about right -- they tend to be slim, KWIM?

I would say that as young dogs, labs, Goldens and FCRs are all about equal in the "energy" department. Our lab breeder describes lab puppies as 3 year olds running with scissors. I've seen FCRs working in the field and they don't seem any more spinny or crazy than labs or Goldens.

Having been through this myself and talked to many owners of various retrievers, there really isn't anything you can "do". You just have to tough it out for about 3 years. Our lab (see avatar) really didn't calm down until 3 years and that is what our vet told us to expect.

I think you just keep doing what you are doing -- obedience, LOTS of exercise and copious quantities of patience.

FWIW, I think you are brave getting a sporting group dog with little kids. We had ours before we had kids and there is no way I would still be sane (though I wonder if I even am?!) if I had a sporting group puppy in the mix right now.

ETA: if you want a Newfie, the good news is that they are supposedly calmer as puppies -- they are in the working group, which are generally calmer not quite as crazy as the sporting group.

[bubbaray]

Originally Posted by BabyMine

We walk him twice a day and play with him but that doesn't seem to be enough. We crate him when we aren't home becasue he loves to get into everything and he barks all the time at night while we are watching TV.

Re these issues:

You need to do more than walk him, assuming his growth is done (ask your vet). You need to RUN him. Play fetch -- run him till he drops.

I would try to hire a dog walker so he isn't crated all day, that is what we did.

The barking is to get your attention. Ask your trainer for breed-specific recommendations. Our lab never barks, so I don't have experience with that in the sporting group. With terriers, you can spray them with water if they bark, but you do NOT want to do that with a sporting group/water dog like a FCR.

[bubbaray]

More info here: http://www.akc.org/breeds/flat_coated_retriever/

Described by all who meet him as cheerful, optimistic and good-humored, the Flat-Coat excels as a family companion. He requires regular vigorous exercise, however, due to his working heritage. Dog sports such as obedience, agility and hunt tests provide both mental and physical exercise. Among Sporting breeds, the Flat-Coat is easy to maintain, needing only occasional brushing and bathing

And see here:
http://www.fcrsainc.org/

Nice pic here: http://www.fcrsainc.org/breedstandard/index.html

The FCRs I"ve seen have all looked exactly like that. Very chic. Flowey, kinda like an Irish Setter in terms of coat (though NOT spinny like them, OMG, you want hyper, spend about 10 seconds with an Irish Setter....).

[cckwmh]

we dont have a FCR but do have 2 dogs in the sporting category. one is 6 y.o. and the other is 1 y.r. the older dog will settle down after a run but our puppy can run for hours, come home, and want to go back out. we have a dog walker who will take them both on runs during the week, and we have been hiking most weekends with both of them. both dogs listen to us in terms of commands and we feel comfortable running them off leash. when we first started with our younger dog, i let him drag a long rope when he was "off leash" because if he wasn't listening it is MUCH easier to step on a rope then grab a dog, especially when walking with DD, too. you can buy a special type of rope that is not suppose to get caught up in trees, brush, etc. we never had a problem.

[doberbrat]

Originally Posted by BabyMine

We walk him twice a day and play with him but that doesn't seem to be enough. We crate him when we aren't home becasue he loves to get into everything and he barks all the time at night while we are watching TV. How do I know what dog I have and if he is a flat coat what can I do with his non stop energy? We still plan to adopt a Newfoundland in a couple of years but we sorta wish we would have known in advance what breed he is.

you could post a pic.... I've only met a couple of newfs but I know several flatties. In some ways, it doesnt matter the breed, if your dog is a high energy dog, thats what he is -whether he's supposed to be or not.

But, this the problem. W/a young high energy dog, you cant walk him 2x a day unless you're walking several miles at a shot. Young dogs need to run. You need to be careful b/c until the growth plates close, (around 1) you shouldnt force the running but once that happens, you do indeed need to run them till they drop.

I recommend a doggy day care if there is a good one in your area. or taking up jogging. or fetch with a "Chuck-It" stick. - use 2 balls so the dog is constantly moving.

And make sure he's getting mental stimulation. Hide and seek, obedience exercises, tricks, assigning him some jobs are all ways to get the brain working. A bored dog will become a menace pretty quickly.

Jobs- my doberman picks stuff up off the floor. anything the kids drop from the table, toys, coins, etc. She usually will just bring to me but will also put toys in toy bins etc same with dirty laundry. She plays hide and seek w/the kids. Retrieves the kids when I need them, will wake them up in the am for me.

[amldaley]

Flat Coated Retrievers aren't that rare, either. Common? No. But not rare.

[TwinFoxes]

Originally Posted by amldaley

Flat Coated Retrievers aren't that rare, either. Common? No. But not rare.

I was thinking the same thing. Also, I assume the trainer meant the dog's so rare he'd never be at a rescue? The woman who ran the rescue where we got our poodle mutt said she would see pure breeds all the time, dogs that are very expensive, but the owners just threw/gave them away.

If you're really curious, you can get your dog's DNA tested. It's not that expensive, like $50 I think. I'm tempted to do it on on poodle mutt. I wish the services had been around when we had our previous dog who looked like a cross between a Cocker spaniel and a Corgi or Dachshund. He looked like a Cocker, but was long and low.

Lastly, we have a Boxer, they are also notoriously high energy, but more silly energy than work energy, if that makes sense? We luckily lived very close to work and were able to go home and play with him during the day when he was younger. Not so much walk him, but let him chase us around the backyard, or we'd throw a ball and let him go crazy trying to chase it (Boxers are NOT retrievers, so it wasn't fetch per se!) We could really tell the difference when we didn't let him get his energy out. Now he's older and just a sweet mellow dog, who's still a lot of fun. So hang in there!

[oneontheway]

If you don't want to hire someone to run him another option is the treadmill... Cesar Millan is a huge advocate of the treadmill. Also mental stimulation might help. Fill a kong with peanut butter then freeze it and let him work to get it out, or they have food puzzles that will keep him busy. Good luck!

[sophiesmom03]

Hi there! Sounds like you've got a nice, typical young dog. I have 2 Newfoundlands, both from a breeder, one adult male purchased when his dog show days were over, and one that we got as a pup and she's now 7 months old.

The male is sweet, calm, laid back. The female is, well, a puppy. For a puppy she's a very good puppy, but she is over 80 lbs already and when she gets the crazies, watch out! Pups/young dogs have energy and while Newfs are calmer than many dogs, they still go through a puppy/teenager stage that can definitely try your patience and understanding. For example, at 16 weeks of age she was big enough to counter surf, removing every cup and plate from breakfast from the sink and onto the couch. LOL learned my lesson on that one. (None broke - good girl? Heh.)

Getting him lots of exercise is a great idea; are there any doggie playgroups/dog parks in your area? Petsmart does a day-long doggie day camp for something like $20/day, so you could try that a day or two per week if you can't find him "playdates".

As far as training, the classes are great but you have to do TONS of repetition and practice or else they forget. But once they get it, they've got it.

There are TONS of variations on what Newfs can look like. There is a breed standard but there are lots of backyard breeders and oops! litters that result in dogs not looking like the standard, or being much smaller (or larger) than the standard. (I've been approached by people asking me if they can breed my male to their female - goodness dog breeding is NOT for the faint of heart and I'd never take it on, much less a giant breed with tons of potential health complications - without a lot of thought, planning and mentorship from a reputable breeder).

You can do a DNA test (look online, you buy the swab kit and send it off) if you need to know for sure. I'd also recommend that you sign up at www.newf.net and come join a whole community of Newf owners and fans. (Many people there have Newfs, some used to or are considering one in the future, and there are owners of other breeds there as well). It's a nice community, very little drama and lots of good information. You might even find help in locating your future (next?) Newf as there are a lot of folks there connected to rescue all over the US, Canada, Australia and the UK.

Good luck and enjoy your dog!!!!