ILs/parents caring for their parents and grandkids "sandwich generation" update OP

[brittone2]

small update: GMIL going to some sort of rehab placement short term for now. This was based on DH's very short conversation with FIL. MIL met with social worker today at the hospital. We'll see what happens from here I guess. Thanks again for the advice so far.

What do you do to lend support to them?

This is long, bear with me.

MIL is watching my nephew full time, another baby on the way. She feels maxed out. She's been caring for her own mother, who is almost 90, and her mom has been living independently up until recently (with LOTS of support-help with house, help with self care, grocery shopping, you name it). Grandmother in law has had several health scares and has lived short term with my ILs, but has insisted on returning home to her old farmhouse each time. ILs have to care for her house, for her physically, etc. MIL watches my nephew full time or close to it, and also watches him most Saturdays.

GMIL had a stroke a few days ago. She had just moved in with ILs after another recent fall, and she'll be returning home to their house once she's discharged from the hospital.

My MIL has had several health issues-shoulder problems, ankle problems, is on her way to type 2 diabetes, has hypertension and other medical issues (thyroid, etc). She doesn't have time or take time to address some of this because of her schedule. Yesterday her mom was in the hospital but BIL/SIL didn't really come home or offer to work something out so she could be at the hospital with her. I understand they are in a tight spot with childcare, but this seems unfair. I wasn't aware this was going on until late in the day yesterday. I offered to watch my nephew today so MIL could be at the hospital, but MIL decided she could juggle it. I am an hour away from MIL and BIL/SIL.

BIL/SIL basically can't afford daycare or a nanny. BIL gets like 1 week of vacation per year, no sick days. SIL is kind of an independent contractor-no real PTO, etc.

FIL is not one to really watch out for MIL's health. DH and I are concerned because she is *clearly* stretched to the max. MIL will never tell BIL/SIL no, and somehow is now going to care for 2 young children (2yo and new baby due in a few months) as well as her mother. GMIL needs some therapy, and I have no idea how MIL is going to manage juggling the time commitment. BIL/SIL do not allow her to drive with my nephew in the car (which I don't get as MIL is IMO a very safe driver and hasn't had an accident in like 30 years. I can see wanting to install the carseat, but other than that, I think it is very tough on MIL to not be able to drive anywhere with my nephew).

DH is frustrated with his brother. He feels like something needs to be said about watching out for his mom, kwim? I am not sure that would go over well. HOwever, I kind of think we are literally the only ones who will watch out for MIL's well-being. I don't want to get into stuff with BIL/SIL and their arrangement with MIL. The problem is their family is *SO* not direct at all, and MIL will *never* speak up until she literally has a total breakdown physically or otherwise. She vents a little to us about being totally overwhelmed but will not tell BIL/SIL.

I think the first step should be talking to FIL and maybe having him address it with BIL/SIL. It just feels like no one is watching out for her at all. I feel for BIL/SIL's situation, but both DH and I are very concerned about his mom. SHe is just totally running herself ragged, and on one seems to be paying attention. Once her mom is living with them full time (post stroke), I have no idea how she's planning to juggle things. SHe currently watches my nephew at BIL/SILs house...MILs house is not child friendly.

Anyone else in this situation? I wish I was closer and could do more to help out. I don't want DH to overstep and get involved with SIL/BIL's arrangement with MIL, but it feels like no one is paying attention at *all* to how maxed out MIL is.

[anamika]

Oh I really feel for your MIL. My 2 yo could run me ragged and I was in my 30s!

No great ideas on how to approach it other than suggesting that whatever is said should come from your DH. I always remember my friend telling me that whatever comes out of her MIL's mouth sounds wrong just because she is an IL! It works both ways I'm sure.

My SIL ( DH's sister) has the same arrangement with my MIL. I think it was harder when DNephew was younger but FIL was alive then and would help out too. And my SIL takes good care of my ILs. She always brings over food for my MIL, buys groceries for her and runs little errands for her. So it is actually an ideal arrangement. Now DN is older and is actually a big help to my MIL, getting things from tall shelves, carrying heavy things for her etc.

Does your FIL help? Can he watch DN while your MIL visits her mom?

If your BIL's family cannot make other childcare arrangements, they should consider helping out in other ways. Even making/buying dinner once a week would help.

And I think not allowing her to drive is ridiculous. What would they do if there was an emergency? Does she have a carseat for him?

GL negotiating IL waters Always so tricky.

[brittone2]

Yes, there is very little reciprocation of any type. The backstory is also that BIL while in HS and college would hit MIL up for money regularly. To the point that rather than be direct and set a boundary, MIL would literally hide in the closet at home (!) so he couldn't find her and ask her for $$ before leaving the house. So there is very little open communication or that type of thing. They are not communicators, no one in their family talks about feelings, that type of thing. It just does not happen. No one is direct at all about anything.

It is all kind of ironic because we had a *very* rocky relationship with MIL/FIL for years, but in recent years it has been much, much better.

FIL still works, no plans to retire, is not a "kid" person although he has a good time with my older kids. Not one to babysit or anything on his own though, except for an emergency. FIL also is unlikely to take time off of work...I think he did a few days ago when GMIL fell and MIL could not get her up...he came to GMIL's house to help MIL get her up and deal with the fallout of her being alone for 20 hours on the floor by herself.

I don't think DH can really say anything. I have no interest in getting directly involved in BIL/SIL's relationship and arrangements with MIL. I'd prefer DH say something to FIL and have FIL say something to BIL/SIL about being sure to watch out for MIL a bit. BUt I'm not sure FIL will do that in any meaningful way. But DH and I are having a tough time seeing his mom going through this, because it is clear to us that she's being run ragged, and will NOT say anything or advocate for herself.

I'd prefer to kind of empower her to set whatever limits she needs for herself, but she simply won't do that. In the past she has vented about feeling unsure about keeping up with 2 kids, etc. and so forth. I have said to her that I know it is very difficult, and that while I have a close and strong relationship with my own parents, my parents have never wanted to be FT caregivers to my kids. WHen we lived near them they took the kids maybe 2+ days a week-out to lunch, to run errands, etc. and then maybe another evening so DH and I could have a date night. But that's not a FT caregiver relationship. I just told her that being a loving grandparent doesn't mean she *has* to be a FT caregiver if it is too much. I don't think she sees another option, however, because of BIL/SIL's financial situation (complicated).

Yeah, I'm picky about who I would allow to drive my kids, but other than installing the carseat, I would have no issue with MIL driving my kids. She's a very safe driver, and I don't say that lightly.

[elektra]

Well, the statistics show that your MIL will be the first to die in this situation. And then you will all be much worse off in almost every way possible.
I think your concern is valid and since it is truly a life and death situation, I would intervene. I am not sure the best way to go about it, but it would be worth having some majorly ruffled feathers. I think your DH should talk to his mom, and to his brother. MIL is his business.
My situation was somewhat similar, but it was my dad was watching my kids 1.5 days a week, and then also caring for my mom. Things got progressively worse with my mom and there was no way he could continue on. I think I was finally the one to make the call because he did not want to admit he could not handle everything. I ended up hiring a second nanny to work the Wed afternoons and Fridays that my dad had previously covered. Yes it was more money but it was money well spent.
One thing I have to say though, is that I have always been a little touchy when my brother gives his advice on how we have handled things with my mom. He lives in NYC and he does not see the day to day. So even though I think you should still try and help figure out a new situation for your MIL, you may not really see the whole picture living an hour away (if you visit often maybe this wouldn't really be the case with you guys though- not sure), or your ILs will tell you you don't see it. I think the "truth" probably lies somewhere in the middle.
Your MIL probably thinks she is helping out her family. But it doesn't help anyone if she is dead. She has to look out for her health too.
I think your BIL/SIL's claim (if they are saying that) that they can't afford childcare is BS. It should not all be riding on your MIL! They need to be able to figure something else out, or one of the parents needs to become a SAHP.

[Simon]

Frankly, I think the best long term plan would be to have Dh confront his BIL and say, "You need to find childcare or one of you needs to stay at home, or you need to find a way to split shifts and care for your own kids" At the very least MIL should not have the kids 5 days/week.

Since that sounds unrealistic given family dynamics, how about hiring a mother's helper for MIL? Perhaps a middle school aged girl or boy to come over for a few hours (3?) after school each day and help her in the afternoons when she is likely to be too tired to keep up with the kids. That should cost a lot less than a regular sitter, etc. but would likely be in the best interest of the kids!
What about enrolling the 2yo in a half day preschool? Some areas have very inexpensive programs at churches.

[elektra]

Originally Posted by Simon

Since that sounds unrealistic given family dynamics, how about hiring a mother's helper for MIL? Perhaps a middle school aged girl or boy to come over for a few hours (3?) after school each day and help her in the afternoons when she is likely to be too tired to keep up with the kids. That should cost a lot less than a regular sitter, etc. but would likely be in the best interest of the kids!

I think this is a great idea. It would be you guys helping your MIL, and really putting your money where your mouth is. Yes, your BIL should nut up and take some responsibility. But it's really your MIL you want to help here, this could be a way to truly help.

Like I mentioned with my brother, he would often say how he thought things should be from afar, but never actually did anything. It was frustrating for him too, as it would have been hard for him to do anything, honestly. But helping arrange for someone like this is a really actionable thing as opposed to just voicing disapproval about the situation.

[brittone2]

Several issues with getting back up help (eta: or supplementary help like a mother's helper). MIL and BIL/SIL both live in a pretty rural area (common for houses to be on 2-10 acres or more. BIL has about 20-30 acres for example.) There simply aren't a lot of mother's helper type of candidates in an ideal driving range, no kids that could be mother's helpers in the immediate neighborhood, etc.. If they found someone it would probably mean relying on that kid's parents to drive 15 mins or even more, assuming they could find someone. The closest small town is about a 10-15 min drive. (eta: while it may be difficult, we should probably encourage them to at least consider it. But I think even if they took this seriously, which I kind of doubt, I suspect it would be tough to find a good candidate because of their location being a PITB).

SIL is now part of a local mom's club. Theoretically maybe she could find a mother's helper that way. Perhaps DH and I should suggest they look and offer to cover some or all of the cost. I can't really screen candidates or anything though because the mom's club area is more like 1.5 hours from here. Recently MIL mentioned to me that she tried to steer SIL toward someone she knows for backup care, but that woman only watches kids in her own home. MIL said SIL didn't seem interested. Recently FIL was sick for 4 days and DH asked her if she was feeling okay. She told him she can't take the time to be sick. If MIL was sick, BIL/SIL literally don't have backup care. Her mom lives 4+ hours away and does come down in a pinch from time to time, but it wouldn't be reliable care. MIL/FIL are going on vacation and asked us to join them (this was before the situation with GMIL changing though). They rented a beachhouse for a week. I'm shocked because they never go away, and since BIL/SIL only have a week of vacation, MIL doesn't get vacation time when they vacation, kwim? So SIL's mom is coming to care for my nephew when we go away with the ILs. But overall, they don't have backup care of any type that I'm aware of, other than me telling MIL that I can head over to sit in situations like what is going on with GMIL or whatever. So MIL seems to have tried to indirectly point out that they may want a back up option but my impression is that the conversation didn't go anywhere. I'm not sure BIL and SIL would even be receptive to a mother's helper type of situation (they are typical as first time parents and are probably a bit overprotective, as was I at that point in my life).

Right now BIL/SIL do work kind of split shifts. He works like 8-5 or so, but has a 30+ min commute each way. SIL's hours are all over the place. She sees clients at different facilities for her job, and works all kinds of hours but typically like 11-7, but then has anywhere from a 30-60 min commute each way. So MIL's whole day is basically tied up even though they work somewhat opposite shifts. BIL works on side stuff on Saturdays at his home, and SIL works that day most days, so MIL babysits most saturdays too.

MIL has related that SIL has 100K in student loans (not in a high paying profession, this is not like MD/JD type of salary at all) and they are in deferment. SIL will not SAH. They need the money she brings in but can't afford childcare.

I can help MIL out short term if she needs to do things with GMIL. I'm a SAHM, but I HS, so I can't take more than the occasional day. Two 2 yos, a 5 yo, and an 8 yo are one thing, but add in a newborn and I don't think I could handle anything other than crisis management. New baby will be coming in 3 months. I do think they need to figure out backup care but that hasn't happened based off of discussions with MIL.

DH and I have mentioned care.com and sittercity in conversation (just about ourselves, not recommending directly to BIL/SIL) and have also mentioned those sites to MIL when she's talked about backup care. We just went through that process of interviewing sitters to find a date night sitter since we no longer live near my parents. We don't feel comfortable asking the ILs to sit for us because they are already strained.

eta: totally understand that living away and giving advice can come off the wrong way. Absolutely. I'm hesitant to stick my neck into this at all, TBH, but I really am concerned because I can see what is happening to MIL, and that was *before* the stroke situation with GMIL, and GMIL officially moving in full time for the long haul.

edited again: DH and I have been wondering about whether they'll enroll my nephew in preschool at all. I have no idea what their plans are there and have only heard it discussed one time at his first bday party when someone asked and it was of course too early for them to have thought about it much. I don't think they'll want to shell out the money, even if it is fairly inexpensive (like a church-based program, which SIL may object to anyway), but I'm not certain. This also would likely bring up the issue of MIL driving with the kids (she'd have to at least do pickup) which is a whole 'nother ball of wax that I don't understand. Maybe there's a back story to that that I don't know about...I'm just surprised it is an issue because I consider MIL a very safe driver, and DH has helped BIL/SIL fix more than one scary install on the carseat for DN (installed by BIL and or SIL incorrectly).

[brittone2]

I appreciate the feedback so far, BTW. Running some of these thoughts by DH to see what he thinks. I'd like to come up with more ways to actually lend assistance vs. coming across as criticizing BIL/SIL's decisions.

[mytwosons]

Any idea if SIL's loans are Direct or private? Does she know about the Income-based Repayment option? It would take her loans out of deferment, but the payment (if any) is based on their income. What does she do? If she works for a non-profit, her loan balance could be forgiven after 10 years in IBR plan.

[brittone2]

Originally Posted by mytwosons

Any idea if SIL's loans are Direct or private? Does she know about the Income-based Repayment option? It would take her loans out of deferment, but the payment (if any) is based on their income. What does she do? If she works for a non-profit, her loan balance could be forgiven after 10 years in IBR plan.

MIL only knows through BIL, who has no student loans of his own. eta: I doubt SIL would want MIL to know, but I am not sure if they have those types of conversations directly with MIL. Neither of them are (IMO) particularly financially savvy. She does not work for a non profit, she is an acupuncturist. She doesn't have her own facility but works out of various other facilities, so I guess she kicks back a percentage of her earnings back to the owners of the facilities she works out of. I know she doesn't get the full amount of what the client pays per session.

I don't think MIL knows all of the details, other than SIL having extensive student loans in deferment. BIL/SIL have never said anything to us directly about her loans. BIL inherited some $$ years ago and spent it all rapidly. They inherited a home and do not have a mortgage, but I think did borrow against their house at one point (not a huge amount of money). They are still having trouble making ends meet despite all of that. Large house, high enough taxes (ILs covered the taxes for a few years, no idea what the current situation is there. For a while they were going to attempt to move near her mom and dad in a lower COL area, but the COL has jumped considerably in that area. For a few reasons, that plan seems to have been tabled, although they were pretty serious about it for a while...unloading the house and using some of the money to pay down debt or relocate to a lower COL area. His job would be portable, hers would be trickier.

No idea if her loans are private or not, and I don't think MIL knows other than BIL telling MIL how in debt they are. She did some related stuff before getting into her current field. Massage school and a few other things and over time the loans added up. Her acup. program was at a pricey chiropractic college (she wasn't in the chiro program but I guess tuition is still very high). So she basically cobbles together work at various facilities. She works at several different places-2 or 3 now I think. If a client cancels or doesn't show, or she has gaps in her schedule and isn't booked up all the way, she doesn't make any $$ during that period of time. No FMLA, BIL can't afford FMLA when the baby comes so is saving his 1 week of vacation time for that I assume she'll go back to work as soon as she can post baby #2 because they will need the money...I don't think she has any short term disability insurance.