Advice requested for Convertible seat for newborn/infant

[anand]

I would like some advice and suggestions on getting a convertible car seat for a newborn starting from leaving the birth hospital (in March 2008). Though I have read quite a bit about car seats in the last several days, this being our first baby, I don't have direct experience with car seats.

We may not need an infant seat because we hope to primarily use the Ergo baby carrier and hence may not need a stroller and infant seat travel system. I would like to reduce the number of car seats we need to buy and then throw away as the child grows. My plan is to get a newborn compatible convertible seat and when the child grows beyond it, to get a harness+booster combo seat. So, theoretical, we will need only 2 car seats for the child. Could that work?

For the convertible seat, I have been considering the Evenflo Triumph Advance Deluxe because it has one of the lowest harness positions at 8". However, it has mixed reviews and it doesn't have a rear facing top tether, which the Britax has. The Decathlon has 3 buckle strap depths, which might be good for a growing child, whereas the Triumph has only 2. But, the Decathlon's lowest harness position is at 10". Is that low enough for a newborn? What is the median or average shoulder height of a newborn? Another difference is that Triumph goes up to 35lbs rear facing and Decathlon a bit lower to 33lbs.

Among Britax's Marathon, Decathlon, and Boulevard, Decathlon seems like the best for our needs, since it has 3 buckle strap positions.

The seat needs to fit a 2003 Honda Accord LX (four door sedan). Have any of you tried fitting a rear facing and reclining Triumph Advance or Decathlon in an Accord? I would like the seat to fit in the rear center position. Would either of the child seats hit the front seat when reclined rear facing? Sometimes all four remaining seats need to be occupied by adults. So leaving the front passenger seat unused and installing the child seat on the rear passenger side is not an option. Based on my measurements of the car and Decathlon's dimension specifications, it seems like it is going to be a tight fit. Carseatdata.org says "Great" and "Very Easy" fit, but it is on the passenger side and I am not sure if (and by how much) they had to move the front seat forward to accomodate the Decathlon. So if any of you have direct experience with this, that will be very useful for me. Carseatdata.org doesn't have any data for the Trimph Advance.

The other options I considered are Britax Roundabout and Graco Comfort Sport. But with either of them, I think we will need 3 car seats for the growing child - compact convertible, convertible, and then a combo or booster seat. Or can the child move directly from a Roundabout to a combo seat? The other drawbacks of this option are that Roundabout's lowest harness slot is at 10" and Comfort Sport goes only up to 30lbs rear facing.

There doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for our needs. Is it practical to expect the child to graduate to adult seat belts after only 2 child restraint seats like I am planning? If someone can confirm a good center position fit of a Triumph Advance or the Decathlon/Marathon/Boulevard in an Accord, then that would probably be the best option for me. Is the lower harness slot of the Triumph important enough to forgo the Britax family with a top tether? Do I have any other options that I am missing? Thanks!

[ShanaMama]

Hi Anand. Firstly, welcome to the boards. I won't have as comprehensive an answer as some of the more frequent posters here, but I'll try to help you based on my experience.
We have the Decathlon and have been very happy with it. Most people on this board will recommend a Britax because of the ease of use and longer life span. Especially if you want to minimize the number of carseats you buy, it's worthwhile to start with the Britax.
We didn't use it when DD was a newborn, but it comes with a LOT of padding meant for use with a baby. It's pretty hard to give a median or average shoulder height- each child is so different. Even two similar sized babies will be different- one will have a long torso and one might have long legs, which don't factor into carseat sizing. I don't imagine you'd have difficulty putting a newborn in the Decathlon (DC) if you use the extra padding. It is intended for that use, after all. DD is now 2.5, very tall, and still fitting very comfortably on the second slot level. I can't imagine she'll grow out of the DC for at least 2 years, and I plan to keep her in the 5 point harness as long as possible.
As far as size and rear facing (RF), the DC is HUGE! I also drive a four dour midsize sedan- Chevy Impala- and it ONLY fit in the middle back seat. If you put it behind the passenger seat the seat needed to be all the way up towards the dashboard. So far up that nobody could sit in the seat!
We are now forward facing and the top tether is very important to me. I feel much more secure knowing it has that additional latch.

I'd also recommend searching on this forum for old threads about the Evenflo you are considering. The only thing I can add about Evenflo is that I started out with an infant carseat and travel system stroller which were both pretty junky. Now I need to convince DH that we should get a new infant carseat!

Good luck with your search, I hope others chime in to give you more info.

[o_mom]

It is possibe to use a covertible from birth, however, it is hard to say in advance what would be the best seat. It can be hard to get a good recline for a newborn in a convertible seat, especially a larger one. You may also find that the hospital (if you are at one) will give you some grief over not having an infant seat. They are not correct, but you need to be prepared to explain that the seat you have is safe for your baby. If you do go with a convertible from birth, you may want to spend a minute or two on a backup plan in case it doesn't work out for you. Last thing you want to do is rush at the last minute (or sending your DH/DP while you are in the hospital) to buy an infant seat or smaller convertible without having any idea of what is out there.

A larger Britax seat (Marathon/Decathlon/Boulevard) is a great choice for a long lasting seat. However, it may not be the best fit on a small newborn. My DS3 was 8 lbs, 7 oz and I would not have used our Decathlon at birth if I had another option. The shoulder straps were about 2 in above his shoulders (he was 21") and there was quite a bit of room on either side of him, even with all the inserts. Of the three, I think the Boulevard or Decathlon are the ones I would choose for a newborn because of the infant inserts, but really any of them are fine.

The Triumph Advance is a nice seat. I haven't seen it on a newborn, so I don't know how it will fit. One big drawback is that the harness cannot be removed or replaced. If you are planning on using the seat for 4-6 years, that can get pretty dirty and Britax allows you to replace the harness. I don't think the 2 lbs extra rear-facing would sway me as long as my child was over 2 yo by the time he/she reached the weight limit. If that did happen (reached the weight limit before 2 yrs), you could always pick up a Scenera for $40 for those extra 2 lbs.

A somewhat 'unknown' option would be the Compass True Fit. It is due out in January and offers a couple of advantages. The top part of the seat can be removed for an infant under 22 lbs. This allows the seat to be reclined further for a newborn (needs to be 45 deg) and then when the child is over 22 lbs you put the headrest back on. It is somewhat of a gamble, though, since nobody has actually seen it IRL and it may not even come out in time. It is something to keep your eye on, though, and look for reviews toward the end of January. The specs are on Amazon and it looks like Target _may_ carry it.

The Roundabout is a great seat - I absolutely love mine. My DS2 is 2.5 yrs and still fits in it rear-facing, but he is not the norm. Most kids don't last more than 2 years rear-facing in the seat. You could go to a combo seat after this, but that has its own drawbacks (see below). Don't even think about the ComfortSport ;) I had this, and my DS1 outgrew it at 24 months on height. He still fit in the Roundabout until at least age 4, so he is not a big child. It is also a PITB to install and the adjuster is impossible to reach when rear-facing. I sold it and bought a Scenera for a backup seat.

On the plan of a convertible and then a combo seat being the only seats you will ever buy, I think that is very optimistic. You will probably need at least three, but might get away with two if things work out well. There is only one combo seat on the market now that can harness over 40 lbs. That is the Cosco/Safety 1st Apex. It requires a head support behind it, so it may not work in every car that you need it to. It also doesn't harness much taller than a Marathon, if at all, so it really isn't needed for the harness. The other problem you will find is that most combo seats don't go as tall as a dedicated high-back booster, so you may end up buying a booster later anyway.

I think that if you start with a good, higher-weight convertible (with a backup plan if that doesn't fit/work for you) you can see in a few years what you will need. 4 yrs AND 40 lbs is the minimum for moving to a belt-positioning booster and 5+ years is much better as that is when head injury rates decline. If you have a larger child who will outgrow that convertible before booster age, then you can look at something like a Regent, followed by a low-back booster or just a seatbelt. If you have a small or skinny child, like mine, you could make it to 5-6 years in a Marthon and then go to a booster if you don't want to harness longer.

I hope all this makes sense! Let me know if anything wasn't clear.

[daniele_ut]

We chose to use an infant seat from birth and followed that up with 2 Britax Marathons, 1 in each vehicle, when DS outgrew the infant seat. Actually, now that I think about it, we had a Roundabout in one car for a while because I got such a great deal on it. He outgrew it rear facing before I was ready to turn him, though, so I sold it and got a second Marathon. He's now 3+ years old and in the second to the top slots in the Marathon and won't outgrow it anytime soon. I'm pretty sure he'll last long enough in it so that we will be able to move him to a belt positioning booster at age 5 or so. The Marathon fit just fine in my tiny Subaru with it reclined enough for a 9 month old. It would be nearly impossible to use it with a newborn 45 degree recline in that car, however. Now that he's forward facing we have no issues with space. We will end up buying a 3rd seat for DS (a belt positioning booster), but we did enjoy the convenience of an infant seat. We never used it as a travel system since I had a Maclaren stroller, but on the odd occasion DS fell asleep it was nice to be able to carry him in to the house without waking him. He was also a winter baby and I appreciated being able to bundle blankets over him *before* we went out to the cold car.

Honestly a lot of the combo seats don't make the best boosters, so I really would rather just get a dedicated BPB. Plus, so many new boosters have been intro'd in the last 3 years that I am glad I didn't buy a combo seat.

This time around, we chose a Chicco KeyFit30 and we'll follow that up with either another Britax seat, or possibly the Triumph Advance. The baby isn't here yet, but I installed the KeyFit30 last week and could not believe the difference between it and the Snugride I had with DS. The install was SO easy and it is rock solid. I'm in love with that seat!

[Joolsplus2]

I've read about *so* many complaints about the Decathlon that I'm hesitant to recommend it at all (the harness adjuster is very, very hard to work with for lots of people).
You could theoretically go from a Roundabout at birth, rearface it to two, forward face it to age 4, then get a Regent to harness till about age 10, then go straight to the seatbelt. If you are not in much need of front seat legroom, then the Marathon from birth to rearfacing at 3ish, forward facing at 5ish, then a Regent or Monarch till 10ish would be another 'two seat' option.
Realistically, though, an infant seat (Key Fit or Graco Safeseat 1) for 18 months, then a taller convertible to rearface to age 2-3, forward face till 5-6, and then a highback booster like the Monarch is going to be the most convenient (you don't need to carry the infant seat, but like Daniele said, sometimes it's a lifesaver... I lived in California with ds1 and was fine without one, but with subsequent kids I really treasured it in winter...even in summer, I didn't want to put my baby in a hot carseat in a hot car... but I *mostly* carried my babies in a sling... the infant seat just made grocery shopping a LOT easier, lol).

[mshen]

Hi and welcome!!! :D This board can be very addictive!

I have a Decathlon and a 2000 Honda Civic. So it is a smaller vehicle and I haven't had any problems installing it rear-facing in the passenger side. However, I do have to move the passenger seat all the way up, which means, only short people like me (5'3") can sit in the front. It wasn't a problem for us, since we usually don't use that seat, and even when we do, it was for a short trip. But most of the time, we had it installed in the middle position. It was recommended as the safest position, and it doesn't interfere with the driver or passenger seat positions. However, if you need to fit 4 adults in it, you better make sure 2 of them don't mind being squished a bit in the backseat.

I don't have any experience with the convertible with newborns, since I didn't buy it until my daughter was out of that stage. I could tell you in a few days about the fit of Decathlon with a newborn. ;) But I think the fit depends on a lot of the individual newborn. Do you tend to have big babies in your family? One thing I heard (and it's been true so far among my friends) is that your first born's size would be close to your own birth size.

Even with all your research, I would still urge you to consider getting a separate infant carseat. Because what if you end up with a preemie? Then all the convertibles aren't that great for the first little while. Plus, it is SOOOO much easier to take the infant carseat with you into the house when the baby is asleep. I carried my daughter (in a variety of carriers) from day one, so we didn't have any fancy strollers. However, I do find it so much faster when I was running errands with her in the infant carseat. Just click it out and bring the whole seat with me for that 5-min errand. Because since they sleep so much in the beginning, you're almost guaranteed that they would be asleep when you get to your destination. And not all of them appreciate being "handled" when you're putting them in your carrier. BTW, I love my Ergo too. :D Just something to consider.

Hope that helps! Congrats on your baby!!!
________
Maruti Suzuki Specifications (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Maruti_Suzuki)

[thepeach80]

None of my kids would have even been close to fitting into a Britax seat at birth. My biggest was 6#15oz coming hom and the smallest was 6#9oz and is the only one I have pics of (lots of pics in lots of seats, lol). The strap slots were up by ears and she could pull her legs up into the space created by the straps on her legs. She fit well in a Radian at about 7.5# (didn't try it sooner) and would've been o.k. in a Scenera about 8.5#. All babies are built differently so it's hard to know how they will fit ahead of time. She almost didn't fit in her Graco Safeseat, but still fits in it now at 14 mos and I love it. She'll move into a Marathon come spring. Her older brothers use a Boulevard and a Radian. She fit o.k. in the Britax seats about 3.5 mos and 9#, but some kids are born that big and would be fine. If you want, get a Britax before baby comes, then if you think it'll be a problem have DH run and grab one from BRU for baby to use till he's bigger.

[anand]

Thanks for all your suggestions. It took me a while to absorb all the rich information you provided and do follow up research. From all the suggestions, it seems consistent that skipping the infant seat may not be practical. Also with child growth charts all over the place (http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/growthcharts/boysbirth.gif) it is not possible for me to make a 10 year car seat plan before the baby is even born. So I will go back and research infant car seats. As a couple of you suggested, I will be considering Chicco Key Fit 30 (30" height and 30lbs limit) and Graco Safe Seat Step 1 (32" height and 30lbs limit). Those two seem to have the highest limits of all and should give me plenty of time to decide which convertible seat to get, for which I will be keeping Marathon, Boulevard, Triumph Advance, Compass True Fit and Radian 80 in mind.

None of the infant car seats seem to have a top tether (for rear facing use). Did I miss something or is that how it is?

thepeach80: Don't your DSs fight over who sits in the Boulevard :) ? I was at a store today measuring the Boulevard and the Radian. Both had the same interior back rest width, but the Radian barely had 10" of width in thigh area whereas the Boulevard had plenty of room there (I forgot it's measurement). So it looks like the Boulevard has plenty of room to move the legs, but the Radian doesn't.

A couple of you seem to have assumed that I am a DW. But I am a DH who is responsible for car seat research. That explains the 2 car seats only plan, huh? :) There don't seem to be any DHs around here.

[o_mom]

Sorry for assuming you were a DW! We have a few DHs around here, but not many. :)

The KeyFit and the SafeSeat are great choices. The SafeSeat will last a bit longer because it is taller and is also cheaper. The KeyFit fits tiny babies better and can be used from 4 lbs (SS is 5 lbs), but either should fit an average newborn. Both have built-in lockoffs which makes installing with a shoulderbelt very easy and both can have the handle up in the car. Neither will really last to 30 lbs for most kids because they will be too tall, but they will last longer than other infant seats.

You are correct that infant seats don't have a top tether. Most convertible seats don't use one rear-facing either, Britax and SunshineKids are the only ones that do.

[Joolsplus2]

My kids seem to have more legroom in the Radian than our old Britax... for rearfacing it's better because it's deeper (longer till those legs hit the seatback...) and the sides are low so dd can dangle her legs over them. The shoulder width is also greater in the Radian. That said, I love the Marathon a lot more, lol...much easier to install :).
Good plan...Concentrate on the infant seat now (Key Fit, Safeseat, possibly even the Peg Perego Primo Viaggio 30/30), and see what looks appealing in a convertible in another year or so...the Compass True Fit will be out and reviewed, the Decathlon may have improved, the Recaros might have been tweaked and perfected... new seats are coming out all the time :)

[deannanb]

None of the infant car seats seem to have a top tether (for rear facing use). Did I miss something or is that how it is?

you didn't miss anything...

you are going to secure an infant car seat base into your car:
http://www.gracobaby.com/products/subcategory.asp?N=41+10417+501&act=A20

and leave it in the car.

The infant carrier is removable and doen't need to be secured other than making sure it snaps correctly into the base.