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View Full Version : Does anyone else think Hanna is overrated? Be kind!



overcome
12-30-2006, 08:05 PM
I know there are many many HA lovers on this board and I truly am not trying to be offensive. I too adore some of their styles and designs, BUT....

Here is why I am not too impressed...

*inconsistent sizing...The 70 dresses are swimming on my dd where the 70 zipper is bursting at the seams. I follow the sizing chart when selecting a size.

*wash wear...I get wash wear and I don't mind it on Carter's or something that was inexpensive but when I'm paying premium prices, it would be nice if it looked like new for a long time (and yes, I follow Hanna's washing instructions)

*shipping...the prices are high enough and to add insult to injury I have to pay way more shipping than anywhere else. They could at least offer a shipping special once in a while.

*price...I understand paying a lot for organic cotton, but only a select few of their items are organic cotton. The sales are okay, but nothing to die for. They need to throw out some coupons once in a while or offer some good deals/bargains/etc.

Okay, there I said it. I'm done. There must be SOMEONE who agrees with me!??! And FYI, I just received my sale order so even though I am not in love with HA, I still have the urge to purchase from them. And I am QUITE sure if there was a HA outlet near me, I'd be checking in to see what's on sale :-)

bubbaray
12-30-2006, 08:27 PM
I like some Hanna stuff, other stuff not so much.

I have also had to send 3 outfits back due to holes. They really need to deal with that quality issue.

Honestly, I like the sleepers I get at Costco better than the Hanna zippers b/c they have feet, Hanna's do not.

I too find the sizing inconsistent, even within the same type of clothing. Some of the playdresses are more like t-shirts on DD, whereas others in the same size are truly dresses. Weird.


Melissa

DD#1: 04/2004

DD#2: c/s 01/2007

tarynsmum
12-30-2006, 09:00 PM
I love playdresses, everything else not so much (although I've never had a zipper, so I can't really talk for that).

What I noticed is a big difference in the length of some dresses. DD has 3 size 70 PD/DD sets, and there's at least an inch difference in each of them (one dress is from an older line, but still. It's like 2 inches LONGER than the ones from this winter). I would just brush it off as shrinkage if the older one was shorter, but that much longer??? weird.

When I first saw the prices for HA, I immediately closed the browser. Seriously. And then I heard about this awesome sale, when things were great prices, and people were getting all this stuff... Yeah, I still paid about $50 for a PD/DD set. The only reason I would EVER do that is because the 70 is still huge on DD, and I would not be surprised if she can wear them next year (I have to roll the sleeves at least twice, and the shortest dress still goes to her knees). But OUCH.

So yeah, I like the Hanna. Am I head over heels? No. Do I still go running when they come out with a Spring Preview? Yes...

MamaMolly
12-30-2006, 09:18 PM
I tend buy Hannah in resale shops. My happiest find was a zip I bought for 99cents at the Salvation Army. Woo-hoo!
I just can't justify the cost of the rest of it. I did splurge and buy a wooden rattle and a really toasty hat and mittens set at the sale last week.
When DD gets older, I do plan to buy the beautiful eyelet slips and pantaloons for her. I can't resist eyelet, and I figure she can wear them under a lot of outfits.
So yes, I get those Hannah urges, too!
:P

hardysmom
12-30-2006, 09:45 PM
I rely on Hanna for basics, like cotton shirts, capris, boys pants, sundresses.... In my experience, they wash amazingly well, so I can't comment there.

I do think that the newer collections (as opposed to the old standards which seem fewer and fewer every season) are very flashy and seem to be getting away from the simplicity of lines/designs on excellent fabric that I fell in love with years ago.

Oh well. I've always thought Gymboree was over-rated, lol...

Stephanie

MNmomtobe
12-30-2006, 09:53 PM
I am new to Hanna and agree with a lot of what you said. I do feel though that the clothes are better quality than Gymboree, for example, which I feel is overpriced for just so-so quality.

DD who is in the 50-60th percentile is not following the sizing charts consistently either. According to the charts, she should be in all size 70s. She has a few 60 sweaters that I bought for her this winter that have a ton of growing room. The size 70 wiggle pants are ginormous on her- had to get the 60 there also. The Kimono top is huge also. I don't see her fitting into this one til next spring or summer.

ITA agreement about the shipping. I don't see why the prices are so high when other places can offer $5 flat shipping.

One thing that I would love for Hanna to do with some of their sweaters is to line the inside with fleece, like babyGap does on a lot of their sweaters. DD's fingers always get caught and snag the inside of the sweaters.

ChefGirl
12-30-2006, 09:56 PM
I have to admit ever since I had a girl, I've addicted to Hanna. However, I never buy anything at full retail price. I only buy when there is a big sale, ie: the current big big sale and the 50% sale back in the fall. I tend to buy them on deep discount. My daughter just received her very first red/white stripe play dress with matching legging. They totally adorable! I have three more PD/DD I picked up from the last Fall sales for her for the upcoming spring/summer.

I do have to say that my DS' long john color faded a bit as compared to DD's brand new one. I guess that is also because I washed them in the washer and dried them in the dryer. I did, however, hand washed her playdress.

I like mostly Hanna's playdresses and their flare pants. The most expensive thing I ever purchased was her Folklore sweater in 90 for $34. That's because I want to matcher hers with mine since I picke dup mine for only $18! I think that's a bargin for my sweater!

Anyway, that's my 2cents. I do buy Gymboree for her basics. She only wears Hanna on weekend with us. I never send her to daycare in Hannas. I think Gymboree is overrated too! I don't think Hanna is overrated as compared to some of the boutique lines, such as Baby Lulu, etc.

C99
12-30-2006, 10:04 PM
>I do think that the newer collections (as opposed to the old
>standards which seem fewer and fewer every season) are very
>flashy and seem to be getting away from the simplicity of
>lines/designs on excellent fabric that I fell in love with
>years ago.

I agree with this. It used to be that Hanna offered cute stuff for boys and girls. Now, notsomuch. They've become like every other kid clothing retailer: 8 billion choices for girls, 2 for boys. Still, the clothes wear amazingly well and make up the bulk of DS's wardrobe.

C99
12-30-2006, 10:07 PM
>*inconsistent sizing...The 70 dresses are swimming on my dd
>where the 70 zipper is bursting at the seams. I follow the
>sizing chart when selecting a size.

That is surprising. Are they from different years? In my experience, Hanna has had the same "size inflation" as every other clothing manufacturer has had over the past several years. The zippers I bought my DS in 2003 and then passed down to my DD fit much tighter than the same-size zippers I bought her in 2005 or 2006. I also have noticed a difference between separates and one-pieces. My DS had a longer torso than his limbs, so he was in 90 zippers way before he was in 90 pants. My DD is more proportionate, and has long legs to boot, so her size-80 PD/DD is too short, but her size-80 zippers should fit her at least until she turns 2.

ajmom
12-30-2006, 10:43 PM
Sorry to hijack your thread, but I feel the same way about Gymboree. I don't care for the style of the majority of their boy clothes!

Not actually owning any HA myself, I will say I adore the PD/DD combos. However, I simply can't justify the price. Since I'm not sure of their sizing, I'm leery to buy on sale b/c I usually buy for future seasons and I can't really predict with their sizing... Many of the patterns I find too loud, but to each his/her own.

kcimato
12-30-2006, 11:24 PM
I agree with the OP. I have been buying Hannas for about 3 1/2 years. My all time favorites were the little red dress and there was a black and red plaid half and half jumper she wore at a year. For boys my favorite was the barnyard white sweater and white wiggle pants. They were the cutest things ever. That said, I am amazed that we have had issues with several items, holes,pilling, fabric pulling away from zippers and so on. The zippers have also faded. Not all of them but a good number of them.

Now that I have a store near me I don't have to pay shipping but do pay tax. However,it's not as much as shipping.

I'm also finding that the stuff is starting to look the same year after year.My only must have this year was the teal velvet jumper. I bought it on sale for $34 and it is TDF.

lisams
12-30-2006, 11:29 PM
I (more like DD!) love Hanna basics - underwear, Long Johns, tees. DD has some issues with how things feel on her, and she much prefers Hanna to other brands. I buy when things are on sale, though. Kind of like how I would never pay full price at Gymboree.

For put together outfits, I don't really like the look and it is overpriced IMO.

mapg
12-31-2006, 10:22 AM
I'm on the fence here, I love their basics, especially for my 11 year old. Some of the older girls stuff at Gap and Old Navy is too clingy through the bust. My kid is not dying to wear a bra, so that is a plus. The pj's are so nice, not tight in the arms-- which really bugs my kids-- and they are thin. Gosh their stuff sure is soft and the seems are really nice for kids with sensitive skin-- but why does this have to cost so much?
MA

newmomto3kids
12-31-2006, 12:55 PM
The few things I have received as gifts or bought on sale have been very nice. However, I don't like them enough to pay full price or shop the sales with any passion.
That said, I have, numerous times, seen an outfit I liked on someone only to be told it was HA.
etc:grammar

deannamorrison
12-31-2006, 01:17 PM
Honestly, I feel that most designer clothing for children is overrated...Although a lot of it is comfortable for the kiddos, let's face it...we buy the stuff because we like it!!! We like looking different, we like the extra attention our dc receive....

I just bought some name brand stuff over the holidays and it's hard to see my dc go to daycare or Grandma's house with it on..knwing it's going to get stained...but where else would they wear it...kwim?

To answer the OP, yes, I think HA is overrated...but having worked there at one time, I think the the stuff is well made and the CS is top notch..

chinadaughter
12-31-2006, 02:17 PM
I haven't bought too much besides zippers and playdresses. I have noticed a difference in the quality of the zippers. Some of them are extremely soft, but then we have a few which feel like just any other pjs. I do love the playdresses and I actually really like sending my daughter to daycare in them. My daughter is one who almost always manages to get something on the front of her shirt during the day, and they stains seem to come out so easily on the play dresses. This is not always the case with gymboree, etc. Plus I know that she is very comfortable during the day.

Julie

ren62r
12-31-2006, 04:48 PM
I love Hanna for the basics as well. I have a DS and find that their t-shirts, etc. are so soft and comfy (well they *seem* comfy on him! lol). We do buy a lot of Hanna, but also try other things. What I like about a lot of the basic Hanna stuff is that they are just plain or stripes or whatnot, I HATE boys clothes with trucks, sports, etc. on them. I don't often find things that I like at gymboree and have found that target's clothes just don't feel as good on the skin. I have found some good things at baby gap too though, but I find it more hit and miss with them. I was pretty particular about what went against my baby's skin when he was wee expecially and while we may pay a bit more, I would rather have him in nice soft clothes. I often buy hannas either on ebay, on sales, or at the outlet. I actually just bought a few things for him for next year during the sale, although I do have to say that I went to one of the stores the other day and was pretty disappointed in the boys selection - it was almost all girl clothes!

Anyway - that's my 2 cents!

-Renee

dules
12-31-2006, 05:18 PM
I really like it and find the sizing *generally* consistent, though not as consistent as HA claims (a few things seem to run funny in each season IME).

I love the quality and softness and that it washes easily and stains come out 99% of the time.

Since I only have one child, I love the resale factor - like Miniboden, it resells for a good % of what I paid, especially if I've purchased on sale or at an outlet.

Their shipping makes me crazed too. :)



Mary

emmiem
12-31-2006, 08:32 PM
I think Hanna is worth every penny. I have playdresses that have been worn by three children and still look better than most Gap, TCP, and Gymbo clothes after only one season of wear. I don't get a lot of pilling. I wash most things according to instructions but do put them inside out. I dry too and hardly anything needs ironing. I have to iron all Gymbo and especially Gap.

Shipping is too high. I write that on every survey I get. Things to get packaged nicely and not overstuffed in a tyvek envelope. They are fast to offer refunds and offer a no time limit return policy. Gotta love that.

I feel most sizing is consistent. One piece outfits always get sized up faster due to the garment. Some kids are longer in the torso or legs and it is harder to fit.

My children always pick out the Hannas to wear over any other brand. The knits don't shrink a whole size (and if they did, they will take them back!), the side seams don't twist, and the hems stay flat.

Michele

jacksmomtobe
12-31-2006, 09:40 PM
I love their zippers. Everytime I get them for ds I want to order some from myself but never do. The only pair that was a disappointment was the first I ordered which was a "toy" print. After that I've pretty much stuck to the stripes where the pattern is in the fabric not on top of the fabric as the toy one was. I did buy ds the snowflakes this year and those were fine. They've all done well in the wash. They are so much thicker & softer over time then the gap or gymbo pjs I've bought. I loved the short sleeved zippers I found one season but they didn't seem to have them again this summer even though they were awesome.

That said I hate to pay the shipping for hanna. You find a good buy then figure in the shipping and it's not that great of a deal anymore. I really wish they would do a shipping promo. They are going to be opening a store in my area in the near future which I'm excited about because the shipping really annoys me. Also it would be nice to see some of the items in person before buying.

I also think they are much more girl focused until this recent season I haven't seen much boy stuff that I've liked besides the zippers. I now have a dd but have only ordered a few things for her. I did get her a playdress which I love however I felt it was a bit pricey when you figure in the leggings. I've also felt gymbo has had better girls stuff then boys. With DS I only got early items at gymbo and then never went back in until DD was about to arrive (&since have been sucked in by gymbucks & sale coupons).

I also don't seem to have any luck with their hanna sales. It always seems to be the same things on sale and never in the sizes I need. I did get a great buy on their 4 in 1 jacket last year at the Outlet. It was $42 there while in the catalog for $96 in the same colors. I've considered another trip to the outlet but from reports on this board it seems like it can really be hit or miss.

Overall I think my biggest complaint with them is shipping & selection because I've been pretty happy with the stuff I've bought. I've returned a few things but I think those were items for myself and the process went smoothly.

Neatfreak
01-01-2007, 08:23 AM
I'm disappointed, only because the one Hanna item that I have for my DD has turned out to be the worst piece of clothing ever for getting stains out. I'm shocked.

pittsburghgirl
01-01-2007, 02:09 PM
If I had a girl, maybe I'd be in love. For a boy, who won't have any younger siblings to pass clothes down to, it's just not worth the $$ for us.

I do occasionally pick up something on sale. DS has some cute long johns from the outlet, and they do fit nicely (not too tight through the arms) but I would never pay full price. We also had a snowsuit we got on ebay which was super cute, and bucket hats which DS really likes.

I find that I spend a lot more time working on stains on the pricier stuff than I do on the cheaper playclothes I usually buy him. He grows out of clothes so fast that I can't justify paying HA, Gymbo, or Gap prices for clothes which ALWAYS get ketchup, paint, etc. on them. He is just a messy boy.

I would love to try the boys underpants, since HA's cotton is so soft. Can't justify that expense, though.

Marilee
mommy to James
http://b3.lilypie.com/CSwdm4.png

supercalifragilous
01-02-2007, 01:27 PM
ITA that HA is overpriced - 99% of the time, I shop the outlet when they have an additional-off sale. Sometimes outlet prices are still too expensive for some things IMO.

I stock up on tights at the outlet. Some posts said they ran small in 2006 but the ones I bought on sale/clearance at the outlet (2005 line) were perfect for DD that she is getting 2 years out of 'em. Can't beat that. I was initially attracted to HA b/c of their thick, hand-me-down-quality tights after being disgusted by Gymboree's. DD is not hard on tights at all and Gymbo's would get holes in them after 3 wears, plus they snag easily. When you think of the cost per wear, HA wins, hands down. Plus Gymbo tights don't wash well and their colors fade really fast. I put HA tights in the washing machine (granted it's a front-loader) but they are showing NO wear. I noticed that TCP and other stores have caught on and come out with HA-looking tights for much cheaper. I haven't tried them though, since DD is getting her 2nd year out of her HAs.

To get around the exorbitant shipping, I usually order at the store/outlet and they've waived it for me, even on basics like undies and tights. I ABHOR paying for shipping, so I don't buy HA online for the same reason you mentioned. I think it's ludicrous!

I love HA PJs - not zippers, but the separates (now that DD is potty-trained). They're of much better quality and thicker cotton than any other brand I've tried (TCP, Carter's, Gap). Again, I get these at the outlet - last time it was an additional 50%! Still more expensive than at other places, but I think it's worth it.

IIMO, HA camisoles & panties are the BEST. Nothing fits like a Hanna and the covered elastic is a definite plus for DD, who breaks out where her skin touches the cheap elastic-lace stuff. For these, I usually wait for the rare times they go on sale (I think it's maybe 2x a year) to stock up, but I have paid full price for undies in the past. I think they're worth it. It's my one splurge.

AdiMom
01-02-2007, 03:13 PM
I have a regular hanna store and an outlet within 10 miles of my hom. Despite the raves on this board,I haven't been tempted to step into either.

The clothes are too expensive for me. I am not going to resell them. Neither do I have time to wash the clothes according to the hanna wash instructions. I wash all my clothes in hot irrespective of what the wash instructions say. I don't mind losing less expensive clothes to the wash or at preschool.

One of these days, I'll probably give in and go to the outlet. For now, I am happy with GAP and Gymboree.

AdiMom
01-02-2007, 03:14 PM
I have a regular hanna store and an outlet within 10 miles of my hom. Despite the raves on this board,I haven't been tempted to step into either.

The clothes are too expensive for me. I am not going to resell them. Neither do I have time to wash the clothes according to the hanna wash instructions. I wash all my clothes in hot irrespective of what the wash instructions say. I don't mind losing less expensive clothes to the wash or at preschool.

One of these days, I'll probably give in and go to the outlet. For now, I am happy with GAP and Gymboree.

saschalicks
01-02-2007, 06:05 PM
The only Hanna I like is the zippers. Even those I feel are inconsistent. Case in point: yesterday DH puts DS#1 in size 90 zipper I just got BN and he said "oh you went up a size." I was like what he said that one looked much bigger. Nope honey same as all of the others size 90.

I think their girl clothes are cute, but boys clothes are eh! Since I have boys we don't buy Hanna's here.

SammyeGail
01-03-2007, 08:43 AM
I am very unhappy with some zippers I got in Nov. from the outlet. The teddybear ones are great, but the snoopy type dog ones are so tight in the arm and leg cuffs. I have bought some previously loved ones on the BBB Board and they were that way, but they were USED, I expected shrinkage.


Yes, the shipping is awful, but I guess it includes handling. I hope the employees in the stock room get paid very well!!

Samantha

aliceinwonderland
01-04-2007, 06:19 PM
Absolutely. And I feel I can say that because I own a variety of items from there (Eerybody likes it, I MUST like it too!, purchases, LOL). Two of the most popular items on this very board...well, you requested we be kind so I'll shut up now :)

The absolutely only thing I have paid full price at Hanna if I recall correctly is the fleece jackets but only because they are super-cute looking to me. And I'd pay full-price for those again.

Like you, I am honestly puzzled at the raves I consistently see here. Even the "wears well" argument (putting aside aesthetics which clearly vary) has not proven true for us, I have had snaps break, and I only have the one kid.


PS. I also just have a boy, and often do love their girl stuff enough to point it out to DH in the catalogue :)

crl
01-05-2007, 12:53 AM
Well, I've said before that I think HA quality varies item to item and that I think LE and TCP and others are better value for the dollar. I do buy HA onsale and have actually paid full price for a few items I really wanted.

And I'm really not thrilled with my latest order. They did not ship the vest I ordered. They did not contact me in advance. One of the shirts was only to go with the vest. When I called customer service, they said I could return the shirt and they would give me free shipping on a future order. That made me really unhappy. I should shlep out to the mail place and be out-of-pocket until I place another order? I explained this and the best they offered me was to send a return label that I can use at the post office so I still have to shlep out (or sit in front of my house for hours to catch the mail carrier). Not thrilled. Not sure if I'll order again.

kijip
01-05-2007, 03:41 AM
I live spitting distance from an outlet and have benefited form a lot fo $5-$20 deals. However I tend to agree with you. I only ever go to the outlet. And, I maintain that Toby's TCP striped long john pjs have in fact held up as well as his Hanna ones over time. The Hannas were over $20 each. I got several pairs of TCP ones for less than $15. :) Further, their boy stuff is getting less appealing and the girsls section is infact growing to take over the whole freaking store. I hate that, since I have a son and no daughter. :) However, I do love them for being the only place I could even find cloth training underpants and now that Toby is fully potty trained, we love the underwear in the solid bright colors. It really does last.

And will say (not that anyone here should listen to my opinion if they like this sort of thing) that I think entire families from dad to junior miss clad in coordinating long johns in festive Christmas patterns is slightly disturbing. Match my kids? Sure if I am ever lucky enough to have another. Match my kids with me and my husband. I don't think so. :P

aliceinwonderland
01-05-2007, 10:02 AM
Don't you want to get J this: (notice it is NOT crew cuts, but adult men section). My Dh would not go for it :) And, cheaper than the Hanna ;)

http://www.jcrew.com/catalog/product.jhtml?id=prod72961423&catId=cat90207

kijip
01-06-2007, 02:47 AM
I can see why it says this:

"All sales final, no exchanges, no returns. Final sale is valid while supplies last." They need to get them OUT. All I can say is I think hell would freeze the minute my fashion queen husband decided to don that suit. :P

LaurelC
01-06-2007, 10:07 AM
But it has a "back flap with button closure." C'mon....

LaurelC
01-06-2007, 10:16 AM
I ordered a pair of comfy clogs back on December 28. They were not shipped until one week later, and they are not scheduled to be here until Tuesday or Wednesday. I think that is ridiculous.

I mean, I know there was a holiday on there, but come on. The maternity stuff I orderd from Old Navy on Saturday the 30th arrived days ago!

jodifurman
01-06-2007, 11:39 PM
I think that like any brand there are ups and downs-- and I agree that at full price that Hanna is expensive. But if you shop around, either on the loops, eBay, or even over the phone at the Hanna outlets.

I have fallen in love with Hanna's dresses for my 4 year old DD... I live well over 1000 miles away from the nearest Hanna store, but I've been very impressed with their customer service and I've been able to snag some great bargains ($12 for a dress and $8 for matching leggings-- gotta love that!) I also think that I like Hanna because it's not well known or often seen in my neck of the woods (South Florida) so I like that my daughter has some 'unique' outfits that never fail to attract compliments.

Jodi

mimieliza
01-07-2007, 03:14 PM
I think Hannas are very cute, I love the styles, but I just can't see paying that much for baby clothes. I don't care about the quality - she's a baby, she'll wear it for three months!

I shop the outlet when I'm in Portland, but it's definitely a splurge. Maybe I'll understand Hannas more when she's older and stays in sizes longer and is harder on her clothes.

Right now, I'm a huge fan of Gymboree (on sale, of course) and Carters. I've found Gymbo sales much easier to navigate than Hanna when you don't live near a store/outlet, and their shipping is reasonable.

Octobermommy
01-07-2007, 05:22 PM
I have only bought one time over a year ago when they had the extra 20 % off. I bought a couple of dresses, three zippers and some velour overalls. I hated the zippers. Absolutely hated them, it was so difficult to change diapers in them. I loved her playdress (I got it for 20 something dollars for the set) She can still wear it this year. It is probably my favorite outfit of hers ever. HA is totally overpriced, shipping is awful and to top it off now there is a store in my state so add sales tax now...no thanks.

Saccade
01-07-2007, 11:45 PM
Thanks for posting this great deal ;)

[FONT COLOR="#006600"]Come get wild and wooly with us!
http://s14.invisionfree.com/BBB_Knitters/index.php?act=idx[FONT]

luv_my_girl
01-08-2007, 03:53 PM
I wasn't sold on HA with an infant either. The prices were obscene. But now that I'm handing items down to my second child, I can really see the difference in the HA quality vs. other brands. The HA colors remain so BRIGHT and the materials are way sturdier.

The first piece we had was a hand-me-down floral summer romper from a cousin (70cm), and I couldn't believe how bright and gorgeous it looked, even after her two kids and plenty of heavy duty washing and drying. By comparison, all the Gap and Gymbo and Carter's clothes looked so faded and limp. Even for my second child, it looked new. And while I wouldn't have picked it out myself (kind of a garish print), it looked spectacular on.

I buy a few outfits each year during the sales, and I pick up more on ebay in between. My kids reach for them a lot because they are so comfy and bright. They wear size 90 and 110 now, and these are my HA staples:

- coats/jackets: We get my older child an anorak every year, a winter parka, and sometimes a fleece. (The younger one wears the hand me downs, which invariably look amazing. She won't even wear the Osh Kosh parka because it's not nearly as comfortable.)

- PJs: Too pricey, but I find deals sometimes on ebay.

- Playdresses: Typically 2 per year. They last forever (i.e., it gets worn in fall, spring, and again the next fall).

- Sweatsuits: 1 per year.

- Outfits: Probably 4-5 miscellaneous outfits per year, some pants, some shirts, some skirts. Depends if I catch a good sale.

I do find the sizing inconsistent, but not terribly so. The playdresses fit big, everything else is pretty true to size. Clothes run wide, so I stick to leggings on my kids because they are skinny, and I size down for skirts.