Negative comments you have heard about formula feeding

[flagger]

When we were researching our options as far as feeding Cocoa, we heard tons of negative comments about those who choose to formula feed. We attended one LLL meeting here and were so turned off by the militancy of the group that we would never recommend it to anyone. Basically one leader said formula fed babies will never truly thrive and it is always the fault of the mother when breastfeeding does not work.

For those of you who choose to formula feed your DD/DS what sort of negative comments have you heard or been told? As some point we may decide to supplement which is why we have not offered any of the samples that we received in the mail. Our ped has taken the approach of not suggesting one over the other and looks to what mother and child are telling him before talking about alternatives. He is sooo supportive of whatever decision we chose or should choose to make.

[kfcboston]

You know, it's so weird. I have been BFing with the occasional bit of formula thrown in for 3 months now. But it's such an incredibly personal choice -- what to feed your child! I'm not big on folks who pass judgement/look down on formula OR breast feeders - and there are both types of person out there! I guess whatever they're doing just HAS to be the right way, huh? I know a lot of people, including my husband, who were formula-fed from birth and seem to have turned out just fine. That being said, I've chosen to BF. To each their own I say! I suppose I'm staring in the face a couple decades of having my every decision regarding my child judged by others, so c'est la vie!

(Sorry for the rant!)

[stillplayswithbarbies]

Are you asking about myths, or true things?

I don't think I have heard any myths about formula feeding. I guess it could be considered a myth that formula feeding is easier than breastfeeding.

As for truths, it's a truth that the spit up stains clothes and the poop smells worse, as compared to breastfed spit up and poop.

It's also a truth that supplementing with formula may interfere with the breastfeeding relationship.

It's certainly more expensive, that's true.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel 2/27/91
Logan Elizabeth 3/25/03

[flagger]

Neither really. I was just interested in hearing some of the negative comments those who chose to formula feed have heard. There are plenty of threads about comments about BF'ng. Would be nice to hear from the formula feeders as well.

[liya]

You know what flagger...I TOTALLY DESPISE, LOATH AND WOULD NEVER IN MY WILDEST DREAMS RECOMEND A LLL MEETING...they treated me like c%^*&p to not say the least it was horrible..They actually minimized me for not being able to bf Arian exclusively(because of my Breast reduction) and absolutly looked at me like i was some selfish imbecil that preffered my looks to someday nursing my childre.....I was 16 when that happened and it was because my back was starting to arch down...Not esthetic but medical reasons. They just couldnt understand it and looked at my child as if he was never going to thrive..They and their followers told me that formula would prevent my son from devoloping to his full capabilities...But tell me WHAT IN HECK AM I SUPPOSED TO DO GET MILK FROM WHERE I DONT HAVE IT....My son suffered terribly from hunger because of their nonsense of just latching him on..he even dehydrated.....Thank God i found an IBLC DR who actually speacializes in breastfeeding problems she was my savior...by the way just today we had our monthly meeting, and its sooo sooo much better than those stupid LLL meetings here..I mean come on one of the LLL instructors was a flight attendant...hummm nope id rather go with a dr or a nurse...i know there are so many moms that have a "specialty" as i call it in this like Rachel for example and those are the moms that together with the dr and others attend our monthly meetings to share their experiences...I learned more and had more support from this group than from any LLL meeting....Sorry i never wanted to rant about the LLL group since there are so many fans out here but hearing your GI experience i remembered how horrible i felt and how depressed they made me feel...

[AugBaby]

Wow! I have to say that I am really surprised at both negative experiences that the two of you have described at LLL. I've attended the meetings for a little over a year now and have never heard anything even similar to what you've described. I guess that like anything else, there are some misguided souls in any group. I can tell you that putting somone down for having difficulties with a breast reduction goes contrary to the beliefs of LLL. It is stressed at many meetings that any bm that a baby gets is a great thing, even if for one day or one feeding a day. In fact, I recently attended a state conference and they had a guest speaker running workshops on how to help moms with breast reductions nurse.

One thing to keep in mind is that the meetings are run by an LLL leader, but any mom is free to attend and speak her mind. The women who behaved as you described may be moms just like yourself who attended only once or twice. Although they were at the LLL meeting, they don't necessarily represent LLL any more than you do. It is the role of the leader to correct any factual errors and I am very surprised that she didn't. If as you say, the leader told you to "just latch him on" I would report her to the LLL headquarters or chapter leader. This is the complete opposite of LLL's philosophy. FWIW, most LCs have been LLL leaders who have gone on to get their professional credentials.

There have been moms who supplement and even two who had gone completely over to ff who attended the meetings in the group I attend. The women who were complete ffs did not appear to be uncomfortable. One came for info and support for her next child, and I'm assuming that was the case with the other as well.

I was afraid to approach LLL when I was having bf problems when my dd was born because of the types of stories that the two of you mentioned. I truly hope that you both report your experiences to LLL. It is such a wonderful organization that can and does help so many women. It's a shame for people to be frightened away by a few bad apples who most likely are not even members of LLL.

[flagger]

For our experience it was the local leader/facilitator of the meeting and not an attendee. We have heard from others here who have had similar complaints about their perceived militancy.

Again this is not to slam LLL or any group, I was merely asking those on this board who choose to formula feed of the negative comments they have heard. There are a few other posts through the past few months of negatives told to those who breastfeed, I was just wondering if or what the negative statements those who formula feed have heard.

[Ryansmom]

Hi Flagger,

I breastfed almost exclusively for the first 5 months. At 5 months I had to stop due to having an infection for 5 weeks that would not clear up. My milk production had slowed down to the point that my son was not gaining an appropriate ammount of weight. I was sad at first to give up breast feeding, but once I got the hang of preparing the formula, I felt good. I think there are advantages to both methods. I am happy to be formula feeding now. Ryan is doing great and is a happy, healthly little boy. In some regards, I find formula feeding easier - more convienent when out and about, dad can do it too, and my body seems to be settling back to normal. It is a very personal decision. Don't feel bad if you choose the formula route Cocoa will be just fine.

Feel free to ask me any questions.

Congrats on Cocoa - She is a cutie!!!

[sparkeze]

I'm really sorry that you had such a bad experience with LLL.

LLL focuses on mother to mother support, it's not there to provide a lot of medical expertise. Sometimes when you want to BF but there are a lot of hurdles in your way (family, societal, health) it can provide a lot of encouragement for you, but if you have actual medical issues you always need to see a LC or doctor.

The groups also vary depending on the current attendance of that group. If you have other groups available in the area it may be worth it to try those out. It's great that you were able to find someone who could be helpful for your needs and that you have a group meeting that you can attend. I'm assuming you have to pay for the services from your doctor? I'm sure that anyone who has medical training can provide more individual support but since LLL meetings are free it doesn't restrict help to only those who can afford it.

But to get back to the topic of the thread - wouldn't it be great if everyone could get support for however they decide to feed their babies? It seems like everyone has bad things to say about both formula feeding and BF!

[stillplayswithbarbies]

This is why I advise women to attend La Leche meetings while they are still pregnant. I have had wonderful experiences at La Leche in two different states. It is important to find a group that you feel comfortable in. Most areas have at least two groups, one that meets in the daytime and one that meets in the evening.

I wish people would report leaders who say the things you were told, Linda. But the problem is that people who are asking those questions don't know enough to report them, or they wouldn't have to ask the questions, know what I mean? :)

I wish the general public knew more about breastfeeding, and even moreso I wish more pediatricians knew more about breastfeeding, so that the myths in the other thread were not so prevalent. It saddens me when a mom wants to breastfeed and doesn't because of bad information from a pediatrician or myths passed on by other people. In this country in this day and age, we have lost the ability to be supported by our older female relatives. The knowledge about breastfeeding has been lost because an entire generation was told by their doctors that they can't breastfeed, that they wouldn't want to anyway, and that formula is the only choice. I am glad La Leche exists to teach people like me what we used to learn from our elders. I intend to teach the next generation in my family myself. :)

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel 2/27/91
Logan Elizabeth 3/25/03

[AugBaby]

Well, since a few people have had the same experience with that particular leader, I sincerely appeal to you to contact LLL and report your negative experience. The meetings are run in a series of four, two of which are dedicated to discussing the various factors that effect the bf relationship and can cause it to fail. I'm not sure how this leader was able to get around all the other factors and blame only the mother, but she should not be allowed to continue.

I understand what your original post was entitled, but as I mentioned in my post, descriptions such as yours about LLL is what caused me not to go to LLL when I needed help. My bf relationship almost failed because of fears of what LLL might be like. As I mentioned, my experience has been so completely opposite of what you've described that I certainly don't want another mom to be afraid to attend and possibly lose the possibility of her bf relationship as a result.

And militancy...hmmm, all of us who attend do militantly believe that we have a great relationship with our children which is in part because of bfing. We all attend with a strong desire to offer support for anyone else who wants to pursue bfing. Do we think that if you don't bf you can't have a good relationship with your child? Of course not. But it is a specific bond that we all love and all share. So, strong support of it, yes! Putting others down? I haven't ever heard it.

LLL's quote regarding breastmilk is that it is "the superior infant food". Nothing about if you use formula your child won't thrive. All the literature stresses what breastmilk does, not what formula does. So again, if the leader used those exact words, that if you use formula your child won't thrive, you most certainly should report her.

[twins r fun]

The most negative comments that I got about formula feeding was from the hospital LC. I know there were several, but the one that I really remember was that soy formula contained hormones and could cause my sons to become gay. Our family had a good laugh over that one because my BIL was fed soy formula completely and is not at all gay, being married to my siser and all.

Other than that, I don't think I've had any negative comments. I guess I sometimes feel the need to explain that I did pump for 4 months. But that is probably more from a general societal(society being defined as other mothers in this case) pressure or from my perception that the person is looking down on formula feeding than from any actual comments. Nope, in general no one has really commented negatively or positively, which is really as it should be!

[Marisa6826]

The comment I receive most about the formula is that it's so incredibly expensive and that I'd be saving money if I breast fed. I've also heard that Sophie is more susceptible to ear infections, food allergies, etc. because she's not breast fed. Well, I pumped breast milk for 12 weeks. It was all I was able to handle.

Even my PEDIATRICIAN didn't recommend the EBM at her 4w visit, saying she wasn't getting enough to benefit her. My gut said he was wrong, so I continued to supplement her formula with the b/m for those eight more weeks.

I've heard SO many negative things from the "boob nazis", let it just suffice to say you're not the only ones that I've heard complaints from!

-m

[liya]

nope she was a leader a leader that was a certified IBLC but a flight attendant....which i think know nothing about some cases which should be under careful supervision...Plus this woman had the gull to say complete and utter just basically crud about BF...im sorry to me she was not and i repeat was not capacitated to manage the LLL..

[chrissyhowie]

This thread makes me kind of sad...Parenting is challenging enough, without the strain of enduring such judgement regarding the choices we make.

I breast feed, but I do supplement with formula. I am grateful that an alternative to breast milk exists. I am a relatively low producer, so if formula was not an option, I would be forced to choose between my career and feeding my child. I also use formula at times when we go out, simply for convenience sake. Like Nicole (twins r fun) said, when I use formula I feel this societal, unconscious need to justify it somehow.

I think the negative comments that one hears regarding formula feeding are a reaction to the time of my parent's generation, when all they heard was how formula was superior (all based upon research funded by the formula companies!!) and that breastfeeding was "low-class". As we can all see, it is the extremist view on either side of the fence, from militant LLL leaders to self-serving formula companies in the past, that fuels the negativity. Our duty is simply not to perpetuate it.

Being a medical professional definitely does NOT make one a breastfeeding expert, and this is despite the fact I am in the Women's Health field. It is shockingly small the amount of information one receives during medical training regarding breastfeeding. With the vast amount of material that is required to learn, it simply is not one of the subjects that is stressed.

This is where the expertise of lactation consultants and other breast-feeding specialists come in. So please do not disparage someone just because they are not a medical professional (like the flight attendant reference of above) and have chosen to further study and promote breastfeeding. She probably knows much more about it than your doctor (but being militant about it is a different story!). And doctors (even Obs and pediatricians) who on their own haven't chosen to learn more about how to feed an infant really shouldn't be giving advice about it.


Exclusively formula-fed as a child and turned out okay,

[ddmarsh]

Chrissy - My mom says the same thing, that formula was considered very "scientific" and much the superior route. When my mom had me she was only 18 (married when she was only 17!) and had read about BF and really wanted to pursue it. She said after 6 weeks she stopped because no one did it and there was just such pressure not to. OTOH, when her mother had her babies you were supposed to nurse and she did with both of hers.

I agree about everyone being able to do what they choose, not every approach works for everyone.

Debbie
Mommy to 3 boys, 1 princess :)

[brubeck]

Nicole I know exactly what you mean. Due to various issues I couldn't feed directly off the breast after about 6 weeks so from that time on my daughter had bottles exclusively, most of them with EBM. I pumped until she was 6 months old and had enough bags in the freezer for her to have one EBM bottle a day for another 7 weeks. But I felt I was constantly explaining myself to other Moms about why I was not BFing as they did. I agree that there is pressure in the Mommy circles to BF and occasionally there can be a little 'holier than thou' attitude from some (although I find that these tend to be the more militant LLL members).

Anyhow, good for you! I know how hard it is to pump all day and I think your efforts should be commended!

[Jenmv]

What a great topic. I think most of us know the advantages/disadvantages of both feeding methods. I often hear from women who were planning on bf and then for whatever reason end up formula feeding and they always have reasons like it just wasn't working, or I was unable to bf etc..... Now that I realize how difficult bf can be for some of us I understand these comments(and yes maybe if they had the right support they may have been successful bf), however their often seems to be a bit of defensiveness to their tone because the pressure to bf is so strong that if you end up formula feeding for whatever reason you feel like you have to justify it some how. I think this is sad. I am in favor of bf, but I also think we are lucky to live in day and age where we have more choices and ultimately it's no one elses business.

Since I have returned to work full time I have had to supplement my daughters ebm bottles with formula because I don't produce enough from pumping. I am very glad that I don't have to give up bf altogether, although the 15%-20% of formula she gets per day certainly hasn't seemed to have harmed her in any way and I still get to enjoy the bond of bf when I am at home.

A close friend of mine had a LLL horror story which is why I never sought out their assistance. My friends baby was a premie, had been in NICU for a month. My friend also had FOUR other children at home under the age of 8(all of whom were breast fed)and she had recently been diagnosed with an underactive thyroid. She was having a lot of trouble bf the youngest and had started supplementing. She sought help from an LLL person and was told that by supplementing she was letting her child down and that if her mother were alive today that she would be dissapointed in her(the LLL person knew that my friends mother had been an LLL leader and also had died a year ago from cancer). There is no excuse for someone saying something so incredibly insensitive and cruel. I think their is a fine line between encouraging mothers to bf and beating women up about it if they choose not to and it is sad that their seems to be enough bad representitives in the LLL to give it this militant reputation.

[liya]

thank god, i though i was going insane...so many ppl talked so well about their expeiriences with LLL, menwhile i went to 3 different gorups and got the same horrible treatment...OMG i thought i was alone, but now i guess im not...As to you question flagger as i said before they told me that my child wouldnt develop mentaly(intelligence) like BF children do..Im sorry but i have see full BF children with an intelligece span of 0, maybe if they wouldnt have BF they would have an negative something on their IQ level...lol :) they also told me my child would get sick all the time and he would get more ear infections...plus the cost but hey thats true....

[LisaS]

While we're on the topic of getting sick as a BF vs FF baby...The whole "BF babies are less likely to get ear infections and sick" comment makes me really annoyed

I BF for 3 months (w/some supplementing for a number of reasons) and when I switched to exclusively FF, I felt VERY guilty, especially when people would say that my DD would have a greater chance of getting sick and developing ear infections.

However, I have to say, my DD, now 16 months has (knock wood) NEVER had an ear infection. While my niece, a few months younger, who has NEVER had formula - exclusively BF all the time, has gotten several DOUBLE ear infections as have many other EBF babies I know. My DD didn't get sick (fever) until she was over 1 yr, while many EBF babies I know did run high fevers and get various viruses during their first year of being EBF. My mom EBF both my brother and I for 1 year each and we both had ear infections all the time when we were babies.

Granted, I'm sure that there are many BF babies don't get ear infections and many FF babies who have, BUT I hate when people make that generalization - just another thing that goes to make mothers who may already be struggling w/feeling bad about choosing to (or needing to) FF feel even worse.

[C99]

I won't comment on formula-feeding, but I will say that the ear-infections argument is a complete myth. A formula-fed infant may get more illnesses than a BFed baby, but whether a baby gets an ear infection depends largely on biology and genetics. Some kids are just more prone to ear infections due to how their sinuses handle fluids. At least, this is how an LC explained it to me...

[MartiesMom2B]

This is a good post. You know I had no feelings about how people feed their kids until I received such negative feedback on breastfeeding. My brother and I were breastfed until we were 3 months and then my mom formula fed us and breastfed on occasion to calm us down. I grew up thinking that breastfeeding and formula feeding was normal. I really believe that it's no one business to tell you how to feed your child. I think the only reason why people are so adament is maybe they feel if you raise your child a different way than they are/did then you view them as a bad mother. I think as parents we should support each other. If someone gives you flack on how you feed your child, they are the ones with problems. I get crap from my family and I tell my husband how stupid his family is and I go on. I'm certainly not going to debate with people who feel so adamantly against what I do - I'm tired enough being a new mom.

I think its sad that people have had bad experiences w/ LLL. I guess I got lucky because Lisa referred me to my group where they tell you up front, take what you want from this meeting and leave the rest here. I haven't heard anything militant from them. I've received better advice from them then my LC at my hospital.

As far as the illness, I have heard that ear infections are genetic.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03
http://www.mcdyer.com/MartieSurasky.htm

[stillplayswithbarbies]

My son never had an ear infection until he weaned at 13 months. Then he had one after another after another.

The way the lactation consultant explained it to me is that the position of the head while breastfeeding, and the suction they have to use to get milk out of the breast, and the movement of their jaw while they breastfeed all contribute to keeping the inner ear drained so they don't get ear infections. It makes sense to me, and I saw it in action with my first.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel 2/27/91
Logan Elizabeth 3/25/03

[C99]

I still think it's just genetics. As anecdotal evidence, I offer these two stories:

1. My best friend has a 26-month-old and an 11-month-old. The 26-month-old was weaned at 6 months and proceeded to get 3 ear infections in as many months. The 11-month-old is still breastfeeding and got 3 ear infections in as many months.

2. I was breastfed until I was 6-months-old and have never had an ear infection in my life.

[blnony]

Just as sidenote to this:
I BF Audrey for 3 1/2 months; she was never sick. Nothing.
She has been FF since then and only at 9 months did she ever get sick; and I know the cute little baby that got her sick!:) She had a bad cold and it developed into an ear infection. But I don't think it would have been any different had she been BF.

[bnme]

I wasn't planning on weighing-in on this topic becuase of the general controversial nature, but...

I have heard lots of negtive comments on formula feeding, from bfers and on bf, from formula feeders. It seems there is a minority of people who are truely middle-of-the-road and can fully support the opposite position (even on an agree-to disagee basis).

I supplemented from the begining and was constantly warned I was going to ruin my supply even though I was not having supply issues (OK, I did experience engoregemnt at the end, but it was while I was attempting to slowly wean). People who support bf did not seem to understand why I was supplementing with formula AT ALL and thought what I was doing was ridiculous. I found it hard to get advice on bf because of it. It made me understand why many people choose not to bf. You get an "If your gona do it do it right attitude". Every breastfeeding book or anything I have ever read on bf --when you get to the section (if there IS a section) on supplementing or weaning early all it really does is warn you not to. It doesn't make sense to me that people who are trying to encourage others to do something would be so hard-lined about it. The true way to get others to understand you is to meet them half way.

To be fair, many formula feeders don't seem to understand or try to understand bfing. But this thread is about formula feeding and I got much more pro-bfing support from formula feeders than I got support from people who bf.

Either way, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I support a Moms right to choose how to feed her baby as long as she isn't harming them (that couple who fed there infant a vegan diet of nuts and seeds!@#&*!!!). I even beleive people have the right to voice their opinion, even if it is extremely pro whatever side they are on.

I guess I just WISH more bfing Mom's would be more helpful to those who are bfing on different terms. I truly think more people would try bfing if the general attitude they got wasn't so demanding and opinionated(sp?).

[KimberleyDawn]

I'm not really sure why people feel the need to ask me how William is being fed in the first place! I dread having to answer "So how's the bf going?" because I know as soon as I answer I'm going to be showered with questions. My problem is I never tried to bf and I'm constantly attacked with all sorts of questions and comments because of this. IMO, I don't even feel there's a choice anymore about whether or not to bf because most people assume that you are and can't understand why someone wouldn't. The worst part is that as soon as you are pushing a stroller the world feels they can say whatever they want and we have to take it as they are just trying to help!
Sorry about the rant but I just went through the whole "why didn't you even try?" thing AGAIN over the weekend so the wounds are a little fresh still.
Kim
Kim

[mama2be]

Negative comment:

I was told by a doula "Formula fed babies grow up to not be as social as BF babies"...well I was formula fed and doubt anyone who has ever met me could say I'm not social!!! and if you could have seen this gal she lacked any social grace...so there's one to answer your question!

Also everyone posts like a FF baby's poops must smell so bad...my childs poops smell like butter!!! I wonder where everyone goes and compares them at????

[JMarie]

First of all - for me - it was not a choice I made that DS is formula-fed. I take medication that passes through the breastmilk. I suppose what gets me the most is that people just assume I CHOOSE to formula-feed. I should not have to justify myself for something I cannot control. Honestly, if I had a choice, I would not be sick, but since I cannot change that, I will continue to formula-feed DS (and any future children) guilt-free. What matters most is that he has a healthy mother who is able to care for him, and when I'm on meds, I can give him that. So far, he has not been sick (except in the hospital) and he is developing right on track.

FWIW, I must thank so, SO many of you for your support of me formula-feeding DS. It is already difficult enough to be in this minority, and your encouragement means so much to me (especially all of you who have sent your un-used coupons!). Thank you for never making me feel like I'm hurting my child because of this. You are all just wonderful...

Jennifer
Mom to Aidan Christopher 01/28/03

[bethwl]

I think this has become such a contentious issue today because of the negative opinion of breastfeeding generally held my most people in the mid-twentieth century. So perhaps this explains a little bit of the militant attitude of some breastfeeding advocates; they may feel like they have a lot of misinformation to counter. That said, LLL is certainly not the same everywhere (even if a number of people on this board had negative experiences, that does not indicate how helpful or not helpful LLL will be to another person contemplating going) and I have heard that it is truly important to go to several meetings in your area to determine if one is right for you. Really, the main negatives you hear about formula feeding are that it is an inferior food for infants and that it's costly. And really, these are not untrue statements. That doesn't mean that people who must or choose to formula feed (or supplement) are bad people. But there should be a greater cultural support for breastfeeding in our country, and I think the fact that there isn't is what creates the backlash of judgmental comments about formula feeding. Some of the negatives associated with breastfeeding come from the fact that it is not always supported; you will feel tied down by breastfeeding if people stare or security guards run you out of public places for bf discreetly. There is a legitimate public health interest in encouraging breastfeeding, because of the immunities passed on; anecdotal evidence aside, science tends to support breastfeeding as healthier for babies (and possibly mothers--studies have shown that women who breastfeed longer tend to have less incidence of breast and reproductive cancers). This does not mean you can take two babies, one formula-fed and one bf and contradict this because the ff baby happens to be healthier than this particular bf baby. There is also a public health interest in promoting bf because the mid-twentieth century push against bf linked bf and being lower-class, and the effects of that are still there in lower socio-economic groups today. Think about the health benefits to the children and about how much money we could save in public aid if mothers on assistance were given lactation support instead of money to buy formula.

--beth

[josephsmom]

I think it's really sad that people on both sides of this issue can be so militant. I was also shocked that people (even total strangers) felt so free to ask and comment on our choices. I had interesting experiences. I felt forced to justify my decision to bf to many people. On the other hand, when I bottlefed DS when we were out in public (I chose not to nurse in public), I felt the need to make sure people knew it was EBM and not formula. Then, when DS weaned at 10 months, I felt forced to justify (to other people) using formula during those last 2 months before I was able to switch to cow's milk. When I had problems, I was afraid to contact LLL because I had always heard of their militant and judgmental reputation. I do wish I had contacted them to see for myself. Fortunately I had telephone access to LCs through my hospital. This is a very difficult issue!

Helene
mommy to Joseph 12/29/01

[C99]

Kim,

I don't mean to incite your wrath, but may I suggest that people ask because they are curious? I know that I often find myself wondering why women "can't" or choose not to breastfeed. I know the question is a sensitive one for some reason, so I don't ask, but...as you say, I really and truly don't understand why someone wouldn't try it.

[mama2be]

Caroline I believe that people ask because they are curious...but i guess I don't think that means they have the right to ask though. I don't know a part of me is not being fair because when i meet a mommy and we get to talking one of us ends up asking matter of factly "are you breast feeding" and I have asked...but I don't go up to people and say "pretty baby...are you breast feeding dear???"...and you would be amazed at how many times I get approached. sure their curious but I do think it inappropriate...I go back to the gal at Costco chasing me around "do you give him breast???" and the whole isle looked over to me curious for the answer. And then the grandma that approached me at a local diner with all construction contract workers ready to pay their bill while I'm at lunch "do you breast feed dear???" Up until 13 months ago I was entertaining clients during lunch this was an old cleint I was at lunch with I mean to be asked that and possibly be "working" was odd...I don't care to be asked like that. I'm sure most don't care but I don't like it...

I guess I'm curious about tons of things in life but that doesn't give me an invitation to just ask...

I know though there is no malicious intent in asking that I am certain...people do love babies that is for sure!!! :)

Edited because I spelled malicious "mil"...for some odd reason...:)

[mama2be]

you shouldn't have to justify yourself for something you can control either (when it is baby feeding).

Added to add the parenthesis notation :)...

[brubeck]

I find this odd. In my area (from the Moms I know and know of) it seems to be the more educated/better off Moms who breastfeed (at least for a little while) and the welfare Moms/single Moms who formula feed. There are obviously exceptions, but my thought was always that Moms who have less money have to go back to work sooner and this makes it harder to BF.

In fact, in the grocery store I go to they keep the formula locked up because it is a WIC item and is apparently a big shoplifting target.

[mama2be]

It is a difficult issue...and it is such a shame that it is it really is...I just wish everyone could jsut support each other I mean there are so many causes to be opinionated about. I guess i never realized that BFing moms of today need to defend themselves against anything so this thread has enlightened me I must admit.

[C99]

Helen,

While it's true that *modern* women who BF tend to be educated & from the upper-middle/middle class, it is also true that in our parents' generation, BFing was looked upon as "low class" in some circles. A friend of mine told me that her grandma pushed her mother not to BF her and her sisters b/c her grandma thought that it was "low class" -- and this was from a farmwife who lived at the poverty line. My grandmother was against my mom BFing for a different reason -- she thought it was unsanitary.

I think this is what she was referring to when she said that the there's still a stigma in society about BFing.

[josephsmom]

That's true. In my mom's circles, breastfeeding was for "hippies" or for people who couldn't afford formula. I guess that might still be true in some segments of society. I have worked in some very impoverished inner-city areas, and many of the people there wore flashy jewelry and expensive manicures and "designer" clothes. Maybe formula feeding is still a similar kind of status symbol among some people.

Helene
mommy to Joseph 12/29/01

[stillplayswithbarbies]

Also consider that lower income people get formula for free from WIC. They actually have the most obstacles to overcome to breastfeed because their peers would be saying "why do that when formula is free?".

There is also a regional difference. I live and work in New England where it is just assumed that I would be formula feeding. I had a hard time at work getting HR to understand that I need to pump milk for my baby. People in my office asked "have you found a brand of formula she tolerates yet?" when I came back to work. They are surprised when I say that I am breastfeeding.

I travel to an office in the south, and when I go there, it is assumed that I am breastfeeding and the people I meet with ask at the start of the meeting "what time will you need a break to pump, you can use my office if you need it". What a difference.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel 2/27/91
Logan Elizabeth 3/25/03

[josephsmom]

That's really interesting. Here's a bright note: I went to a mall today (in the South, FWIW) and , in addition to having a family restroom, there was also an area in the ladies' room that had 2 rocking chairs, an electrical outlet, and a privacy curtain for women to nurse or pump. I thought that was great.

Helene
mommy to Joseph 12/29/01

[vikivoly]

I formula feed because I chose to do so. It is true that women who formula feed feel the need to justify their choices. Just try to find one other post on this board by a member admitting that formula feeding was a choice. I feel that most breast fed moms look down on formula feeders. This in turn causes me to be defensive about the issue. I often read about all of the negative comments posted here that people say to bf moms and think, "yeah, but what are you saying to or about ff moms?"

I have and never would say anything negative to a woman who chooses to breastfeed. When you choose to formula feed you are faced with opinions and literature every where. Just look at the Baby Bargains book. I didn't purchase the book for information on whether to breast or bottle feeed, and yet the Field's felt the need to push their opinion on the reader. The book is about bargains and costs of baby products. Yes, I expected the issue to be covered with regards to financing, but it was much more than that. One section reads, "We've got nothing against formula, per se. Sure, we're firm believers in breastfeeding, but we realize there are times when formula is the only option for medical reasons." To me this says - if you don't breastfeed, you need to justify it. I don't mean to knock the Field's, I loved their book. I recommend it to every pregnant woman I know. But this is an example of what I consider "a negative comment" that formula feeders face.

Another example was at my childbirth class. The nurse asked everyone who planned on breastfeeding to raise their hands . While most of the women raised their hands, there were a few of us who didn't. The nurse said, "Oh, I see a few of you still haven't decided to breastfeed." BTW, she was a lactation consultant.

Also, the hospital their bassinet identification tags read, "I'm a breastfed girl" or just "I'm a girl". Implying that my daughter was not as special as some of the other babies. I didn't think it was anyone's business how I fed my daughter.

In closing, I think we all need to realize that it is difficult to be a good parent these days. We as Moms need to stick together and not be so caddy with eachother over such issues. I do question whether I made the right decision. If I have a second child I'm definitely going to consider breastfeeding. But I do have a healthy, thriving 100% formula-fed baby.

Edited to add:
While in the hospital my husband and I had a good laugh when they showed us a video saying how BF babies had golden poops with a sweet smell, and FF babies had ugly brown stinky poops.

[C99]

>Also, the hospital their bassinet identification tags read,
>"I'm a breastfed girl" or just "I'm a girl". Implying that
>my daughter was not as special as some of the other babies.
>I didn't think it was anyone's business how I fed my
>daughter.

I suspect that this wasn't because your daughter wasn't deemed as special as breastfed babies, but so that the nurses knew who the BFed babies were for feeding and comforting purposes. If you're trying to estalish nursing, the last thing you want is for your baby to prefer or become confused by a rubber pacifier nipple.

[nathansmom]

Here's my take on the issue.
I planned on breastfeeding Nathan. When he was born he was rushed to NICU and I was told that breastmilk was not good for a child with low blood sugar. He needed to be on formula so that they could monitor how much he ate. The doctor in NICU changed the orders on my chart so I wasn't even visited by a LC. By the time I realized what had happened the LC tried to help me pump but we were never able to get any breastmilk.

I have had nothing but problems with formula. We have tried all of them. Right now Nathan has 14 ounces of donated breastmilk and 8 more of formula.

I still feel that each mother should have the right to choose how she wants to fed her baby without anyone making any negative comments about her choice.

[bethwl]

I agree it's hard to overcome the rationale of "why breastfeed if someone's giving me formula for free." That's why it would be great if WIC had programs that provided lactation support instead of just taking the path of least resistance and providing free formula.

[mama2be]

I would have to agree with just about everything that Vicovoly (sp???) said, it really is hard to stomach all of the false info about FF out there. And I couldn't agree more with her regarding soemone trying to say a FF babies poop smells bad...Tristan's smell is sweet and very buttery and in no way bad!!! That example goes to show you that there are alot of myths out there...

I think without exceptions my million post show that I accept mothers choices and SUPPORT them in any decisions that they make about their child...especially in this community it is obvious that we all think the world of our children.

I also want to add:THAT SINCE HAVING TRISTAN I HAVE BEEN BLESSED WITH MEETING MANY MANY MOTHERS AND MANY JUST HERE ON THE BOARDS. I HAVE TO SAY I HAVE YET TO FIND A MOM THAT IS A WORSE MOM THAN MYSELF!!!! BUT I ALSO AM THRILLED TO SAY I HAVE YET TO FIND A MOM THAT IS A BETTER MOM THAN MYSELF...IN OTHER WORDS WE ALL DO WHAT WE THINK IS BEST!!!!

[BeverlyJ]

I would like to add a small piece to this discussion. I have done a fair amount of research about the benefits of breastfeeding, and the one thing that hasn't been mentioned specifically in this thread is that BF babies are STATISTICALLY more likely to have less allergies, ear infections, suseptible to colds and flu, higher IQ's, etc. The smelly poops is anecdotal, but widely held amongst L&D nurses.

The other side, of course, is that means there are still plently of BF babies that do get sick and FF babies that thrive just nicely. There are pros and cons to each, however, it is abundantly clear that ALL of the published studies show that STATISTICALLY, babies that are BF are "advantaged."

I believe one of the best gifts a baby can receive is a happy Mom, and if that means FF, then she should be supported. The militant attitude by some LLLers and BFers is unfortuate and misplaced, but they are fighting misinformation that has been prevelant in the USA for the past 50+ years.

As a BFer myself, I can only hope that other Moms make informed decisions and do whatever is best for their baby and family.

BeverlyJ

[brubeck]

How can L&D nurses have an opinion on the poops when the poops the first few days are meconium?

[muskiesusan]

I know I am late to this thread, but I have to say I have found it very eye-opening. I had no idea that ff was so looked down upon. I bf Nicholas for 13 mths, but actually felt of ton of pressure to ff. Most of the people I know who did bf did so for only 3 months tops. I guess this shows that these things can be regional.

A comment on the LLL. I too was very wary of them. I found by talking to my sister, who is very into bf, that some groups are very militant and others are more supportive of different feeding methods. I think that it is key to ask around, I view them kind of like churches, each chapter has its own personality. I sought help from a LLL leader for my latching problems and b/c of the way Nicholas' mouth is shaped and his sucking was very painful, she said that I should just bf for as long as I could tolerate it and switch over to ff. She really changed my view of LLL.

Susan
WAHM to Nicholas 10/01/01

[sparkeze]

So are we all agreeing to disagree? ;)

I bet we all agree that unless the person who's asking how we feed our babies is coming over every night to take care of all nightwakings - they have no business offering their 2 cents! :)

[mama2be]

HEE HEE I definitly will agree to that!!!! :)...

[spu]

I'm a little late to this thread too, but I've had a very positive experience with my local LLL group. I've been attending for 10 months - since the babies were born. I'm lucky to have a "multiples" lll group in my area and they've been both helpful and supportive and non-judgmental of everyone's desires and wishes. I feel bad that you guys had a negative experience. You should let the national LLL know because they're not supposed to be pushy or anything like that - just to provide whatever the moms and dads are looking for.

susan

twin girls 7.20.02
charlotte & else

[BeverlyJ]

Good catch. I wrote "L&D nurses" -- when I meant to say "NICU nurses" as they change lots of diapers for the infants who are in the Hospital for extended stays. Of course their opinions are anecdotal and obviously does not cover ALL babies, but it is widely held amongst those that have take care of hundreds of babies that MOST ff babies have smellier poops and spit-ups.

Thanks for pointing out my oversight :)

BeverlyJ

[mama2be]

I wouldn't dare debate whose poop smells better BUT my son's poop does not smell bad at all!! I'm certain the day will come soon where it stinks to hog heaven BUT wanted to make certain that that rumor is put to rest!!!

Also I am pretty familiar with hospitals...and NICU nurses really can not compare different babies poops IN THAT SETTING...NICU nurses are catering to "INTENSIVE CARE BABIES" which alone implies there are tons of medicines on board which therefore does not allow for one to compare poops of the general population of babies anymore than I can compare. Medicines can change poop smells too...BIG TIME!!!!

I could give a rats ass or "SH*$" (poop) whoses babies poops smell better BUT I also think it careless for ones to be so desperate to prove a point that they have to make up stuff to prove it. I'm not saying anyone on this thread has done this BUT I have witnessed it in the general public more than I care to admit!!!!

Edited to add...as for spitting up my son who is almost 4 months has needed to be changed 4 times for spitting up on his clothes...I bet that's less than most babies so don't think that arguement holds up either.

He hits major growth spurts...has yet to be sick...has never ONCE woken up during the night to do anything other than be fed and is as healthy as a horse and has been in the 90% of growth since his birth. SO for those who have to act like he is on his "Death bed" for being formula fed I for one am sick of it!!!!!!!!!!!!

HMMM "best thing" I can do for my child is to provide a safe roof over his head, supply him with nutrients, to protect him against the bad, to teach him to be nice to others and to help those in need...to be kind to animals and to one day respect women to the emteeth degree. Fortuantly if I can put him thru college that too would be one of the best things I could do for him...I am happy to say that if he needed to go to college tomorrow that he is taken care of for any school in the country as of now!!!! So really life has so many other worries than to worry about where he get his nutrients from for his first few months of life. GOSH I worry about so much more in life than that...I worry if parents have car seats installed correctly because I personlly have seen more that 100 kids die from that!!! I've yet to see one die from not being breast fed!!!! I've also PERSONALLY seen kids killed by a parent over jealousy...I've seen several die from SIDS, many die from illness...I mean come on really try to help this world then sit on butts and blast women over how they feed their babies...that is a lazy approach to being opinionated in my eyes!!!! I am not speaking to anyone on this thread or boards but again to the masses and opinions that are hurtful to those who make simple decisions that differ from others!!

[MartiesMom2B]

Personally I think Martie's BF poops smell bad. I probably think that if she was FF they would smell bad too. Why? Because to me poop smells bad. I don't think they smell like buttermilk or butter. Just yucky. Then again, when I drink wine I can taste or smell chocolate, wild flowers picked fresh in the morning dew, etc. I just know that it tastes good or bad.

However I know that her smelly poops will probably intensify with solids so bad that my eyes will water.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

[daisymommy]

That is so awesome!!! Maybe the rest of the country could take a hint on that one!

[millerpjm]

Ok, I am also late to this post, but I can relate... I only bf'd my son for a few days. He had jaundice and my ped wanted me to supplement with formula to get him eating more until my milk came in. We made the decision to ff. I, too, feel like I have to justify my decision to ff by saying it didn't work out, etc. My ped is wonderful... she doesn't care if you bf or ff. She is very supportive and says my baby is great. I would have to argue with anyone who says my ds isn't thriving because I ff. I still feel looked down on because I do not bf - but, then I think how wonderful it is that my husband gets the opportunity to feed our baby and have bonding time with him. My husbands parents also live in town, and Grandpa just loves giving ds his bottle! I wish there was as much emotional support and encouragement for ff moms as there is for bf moms!

Jen

Proud mama of Thomas (4 1/2 months)

[JMarie]

Well said! I agree, there needs to be MUCH more support for FFing moms than currently exists. All the arguments that a FF'd child has smellier poops (I agree with whomever said ALL poops smell!), will have more illnesses, will be more susceptible to allergies, and what-have-you - I truly believe it is the luck of the draw. I have seen FF'd babies thrive with no illnesses or allergies to speak of and BF'd babies sick every other week and unable to eat dozens of foods because of reactions. There are no hard-and-fast rules or guarantees when it comes to this issue. My biggest beef has to be with the magazines/newsletters/websites that offer so little information for us formula-feeding parents. One of the weekly newsletters I receive by email did not even address FFing until month THREE. Perhaps that is when some mothers return to work and decide to stop BFing, but for us who have been FFing since the beginning, that information was way past-due and no longer relevant. It's just so unfortunate that, number one, ANYONE has to justify how they feed their child (FF vs. BF), and number two, that information on both sides seems to be so lacking.

Jennifer
Mom to Aidan Christopher 01/28/03