Multi-pronged plea for help...

[pritchettzoo]

What's the best way to rouse a DEEPLY slumbering baby for feeding? We've tried stripping her down to her diaper, tickling her, poking her, turning on the lights, turning off the lights, singing, cool washcloths...

Any advice from veteran moms with dense breasts? The milkman cometh and I am having to pump to get some "slack" in the breast in order to try to cram something more than a nipple in her mouth (advice from LC). How long should I be pumping? It's not working very well...

And, speaking of pumps, how the heck do you keep the milk in the bottle and not all over your breasts (using Medela Lactina specifically)? I have large breasts ("Honey, what does the G stand for on this bra?"), so I don't know if that's the problem or if I'm doing something screwy. I can't lean forward into the pump because of sore c-section area right now, and I don't know what else to try. I hate wasting the milk and being so messy to boot!

Thank you for ANY help you're able to give...

Anna
Gracie's swollen & desperate Mama

[August Mom]

Anna,

First of all, congratulations. I see you're already encountering the super hard work of the first few weeks. Just know that if you stick with breastfeeding, it WILL get better. We really turned the corner with nursing around 6 weeks.

As far as waking the baby, I gave up trying to wake DS up when he was in a deep sleep because he would never eat then anyway. As far as keeping him awake while eating, the only thing that worked for us was pumping his arm or leg (the arm worked best). He didn't respond to tickling his chin, blowing in his face or any of the other suggested methods.

I did have dense breasts (although nowhere near a G size). I pumped off with a hand pump just to relieve the pressure. I didn't accumulate very much milk and I didn't save it. I used warm compresses before feedings and that helped some as well.

As far as your pumping question, even with small breasts I wind up with a lot of milk on my breasts. It does help to lean forward a bit but that's not feasible right now. However, at this point, I wouldn't think you'd really be pumping to accumulate a supply so I wouldn't worry about it.

[deborah_r]

Sleeping baby...my LC showed me something that worked. I would hold him upright facing me then slowly lower him back onto his back, on my lap. Nothing drastic to scare the baby, just gently but the change in position seemed to help.

pump...all I know about is Avent Isis, so I don't think I can help. Make sure you are making a good seal (suction) with the pump, that is the only reason I could think of for leaking.

I do recall being soaked in milk most of the time for the first 1-2 weeks, so don't get too discouraged!

I've got a crying baby on my lap, I gotta go! good luck!

[deborah_r]

Just remembered...lightly blowing on baby's face worked for me.

[peanut4us]

Anna,

So excited for you... and so filled with sympathy on the sleepy baby/booby trauma.

1st... I don't know what you are or are not allowed to do post c-section, so some of this might not work. Try taking a shower before nursing and hand expressing the girls in the shower. If you can't shower yet, then try dipping the girls in a BIG bowl of warm water. If not, then warm compresses, but I never really felt like that worked all that well.

For baby--you listed most of the stuff to wake her up. You could also try having lights on or having DH dance her (gently) around the room, try putting a little milk on her lips... sometimes that helps them to realize what they are missing.

For the pump--I use one of those pumps everyday at work. Make sure that your nipples are centered in the cones and that you press the cones into the rest of your boobs. Not too hard (don't want to hurt yourself!). It takes a little while to figure it out. I always keep an extra burp cloth/towel on my lap just in case. You won't be getting oodles of milk right now, so don't worry when you barely get an ounce (if you're lucky).

Now there are 2 schools of thought on pumping with your DD being still so young... 1 is don't. It will overstimulate your breasts and continue your engorgement. the other is if you do it, just do it to the point of softening. IMHO (not an LC, so grab your salt shaker) IF you are rock hard and baby can't eat, pump until you are empty, one time. To do this, pump one breast at a time, using a warm compress and massage... having DH help massage does wonders. Make sure you try to relax. I did that and it really helped.

Now, the last bit, watch Gracie like a hawk for jaundice. If she's an extra sleepy baby, she's much more likely to get it. We didn't catch it early enough (actually we did, but our LC told us to "wait" another day, which probably was the difference of taking Sara back to the hospital, grrr. Remember all LC's are not equal). Anyway, if you don't catch it early, she could end up going back to the hospital, like Sara. And that was awful.

Hang in there. Oh, yeah, if you feel up to it (and I doubt it), but you can also lie her on your bed and lean over her to feed her. That's a PITA, but seems to make it easier to get the milk flowing (love gravity) and seemed to increase the size of the soft area of my boobs.

Good luck Anna. I'm so excited for you!

[jojo2324]

Anna, hang in there!! Gannon would conk out when we started nursing...What a trial. He was also jaundiced, and it didn't help that all the nurses and docs kept saying, "He needs to eat..." No crap Sherlock, do you think I want to milk myself for the sole purpose of soaking my belly?

I could never get him to wake up, and when he did, it was barely long enough for him to actually get much. And I had the same trampoline nipples. He couldn't latch on because they were SO taut. Warm compresses helped, as did pumping. It WILL level out. I remember asking the nurse if it was going to end, because the pain REALLY wasn't working well for me. She just handed me some more compresses. And one day (like the next day) my boobs were just fine. Bigger, but not about to explode.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about wasting milk right now. Just work on getting comfy with the positions (side-lying was/is my personal fave...I think that a Boppy has helped many a c-section mom with the cradle hold) and using the pump to ease some of the discomfort.

Good luck!! :)

[heidi_timms]

In the hospital, the nurse said to use a cold, wet towel to wake up my DD. She told me to rub her forehead and back of her neck with it. It's a little startling, but works well!

Also, I think that there might be different size inserts for the Medela cones for bigger and smaller breasts. I just use the regular ones that came with my Pump in Style(I think the same parts for the Lactina) because I'm just average-size. It's worth checking out.

Edited to add that Medela has a free LC service where you can email an LC. It would be a good place to ask all of your pumping questions!

~Heidi
Mom to Kailey Ashlin
4/27/03

[flagger]

One thing one of the nurses in the hospital told us was to rub circles around Cocoa's head with our finger while she was nursing. Don't know why it works, but the suck reflex just starts up even when we do that to this day.

HTH

[mharling]

We had lots of luck with stripping ds down to his diaper, 'pumping' his arm up & down and tickling his feet. And I agree with the advice to watch closely for jaundice, including keeping a count of wet diapers. If this seems amiss, call your ped, not the LC.

Good luck!!!

Mary & Lane 4/6/03
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32e1840e40d - New 9/8

[calebsmama03]

Tickling under the chin will also start the sucking reflex. We gave up trying to wake him when he fell asleep at the breast - just tickled under the chin and he would eat while sleeping :-) Whenever he'd quit sucking for more than a few seconds, I'd tickle/rub under his chin and he'd start back up.
Lynne
Mommy to Caleb 3/3/03

[houseof3boys]

We went through the beyond sleepy thing with Ryan too and despite everyone's good suggestions....nothing really worked. He grew out of it by week 2 though. He did have slight jaundice when we left the hospital but it cleared up by day 5. We even used ice (yes, we were meanies) since he seemed to almost scoff at the cold washcloth, and that didn't work. The blowing on his face worked sometimes as did running your fingernail on the bottom of his foot. Keep bf-ing skin to skin with her since the LC's told me that was the best way to do it when they are sleepy.

Let me know if you want me to come over with a blow horn!

Don't pump for more than a few minutes because you will be miserable if you get more stimulation than mother nature is already giving you. I still pump with a burp cloth or blanket underneath my breasts when I pump since accidents still happen with those darn horns on the Medela (PIS).

And really....let me know if you want me to come over and help with anything Anna!!

[pritchettzoo]

Gracie's going to the ped tomorrow as soon as 1) we can find one we like (the practice we chose & used at the hospital is...well, that's a subject for the bitching post...let's just say they are not BF-ing friendly) and 2) can get an appointment.

Our LC is wonderful. If anyone in the Atlanta area needs one, I highly recommend ours. Tonight she drove to her office on the other side of town to get me some larger breast shields (geniuses at the hospital gave me smalls) and then gave my husband directions to her house to come get them because she lives near us. She offered to bring them by here--and this is for a $12 pair of shields!

So, I am pumping 5-7 minutes to get closer to the hind milk, letting Gracie nurse as much as she can (usually 12-15 minutes until ZZZZZZZZZZ), then pumping to get the remainder of the hindmilk. DH is feeding her the hindmilk with a syringe and we're saving the foremilk to use to wake her up with or for some other special occasion. This is to avoid having to use formula to supplement (which was the ONLY course of action offered by the hospital and peds...even suggested that I give up on Day 2 since I had given it "a good college try"). Hopefully once we get her back on track the nursing will come more easily and naturally. I have the utmost respect for everyone who pumps at work. I can't imagine!

We've been trying all of your wonderful suggestions for waking our Sleeping Beauty. DH was actually the one who suggested I ask the computer people what to do!

And Joey, I set up a boobie jaccuzzi on my kitchen counter (finally a use for those pink plastic tubs they give you at the hospital!). DH wandered in and threatened to take away my Lortabs...but it felt so good!


THANK YOU!
Anna
Gracie's milk maid

[mharling]

Anna -
Boobie jacuzzi.... LOL!!! :D It sounds like you're on the right path. You're doing great!!

Mary & Lane 4/6/03
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b32e1840e40d - New 9/8

[nitaghei]

Anna,

Glad things are going better. I got in very late on this - and I was going to suggest a different size shield. I use a Lactina, and I know they have different sizes. It's great that your LC figured that out.

It does get a LOT easier.

Nita

[Jen841]

You are doing great!

We tried all of the tricks mentioned, and nothing woke Jude or prevented him from falling asleep. For weeks I would have loved to jump for joy if he fed for 5 minutes, but my boobs hurt too much to jump!

Warm bowls of water will help soften your breast so she can latch on. It is a sight to see for Dad, and you will get a laugh out of it. 2 mixing bowls on the counter with me leaving over them with my E cups was an experience. It gets better.

Don't pump unless you have too. Your body needs to adjust to the supply and demand Gracie needs. I personally HATE pumping. It is not rewarding for me at all. It only takes the edge off pain when I get engored. Your body will learn to adjust to her needs.

Pumping is messy. You will learn how to lean forward a bit, and how to get the horns off with minimal mess. I keep a dishtowel on my lap for drips still when I pump at work (again, I HATE it.)

Enjoy Gracie! They grow so fast.

[peanut4us]

Anna--she eats for 12-15 minutes before falling back asleep? That's wonderful. I thought you meant like less than 5 minutes a go. OK, now I'm a little less worried for you.

I'm glad you have a good LC. Since you like her so much, have you thought of asking her for a good pediatrician recommendation? LC's won't recommend Drs who are bfing unfriendly. In fact, I knew I had a good ped, when each time I dealt with an LC they asked who the ped was and they all said, oh, he's so great! Also, if you like your regular dr, you could call and ask the nurse or dr who they could recommend that is bfing friendly.

The drs and nurses at the hospital definately didn't sound like anyone you want to take advice from (given that they don't follow your line of thinking on the bfing). Just hang in there. It will get better!

[pritchettzoo]

The 12-15 minutes is not all productive. She likes to yell at the breasts. Apparently the right one makes her much angrier than the left one. And she's not an efficient sucker; she'll suck a few quick times and then start to doze. We rouse her and then suck suck doze. Repeat. And that's a good feeding...

Today has been much better! We got a recommendation for a solo practitioner and are going to try her. My cousin is a first year med student and will be shadowing this doctor in the spring. She loves her and says that if she had kids, she'd take them to this doctor. So we see her first thing tomorrow morning. (The LC has grown children and her ped has retired.) We've also asked for recs from a nice lady from the LLL, but we had to get Gracie in somewhere. We can always try someone else if tomorrow doesn't go well.

And Gracie finally started pooping today. She's now a poop machine! I have never been so happy to see poop in all my life. We were doing a poopy dance at 4 am! Woohoo!

Thanks again!

Anna

[deborah_r]

LOL! I am so happy for you Anna...you are doing great! And I definitely didn't have your great humor when I was at that stage, so my hat is off to you!!!

And yelling at the breasts is good - it will get the milk flowing!!! :)