When it rains, it pours... (sorry, long)

[hellokitty1]

Today's six-month well-check was unsettling to say the least. DD has dropped in weight from the 50th percentile at her 4-month checkup to the 25th percentile at her six month checkup. Her ped wants us to come back in a month to see how her weight is.

From my other posts, I've had some concerns about decreasing pump supply and possible milk allergies/intolerance. I was mixing cereal with water but with the weight issue, I thought I better move to at least formula and reconciled myself to the fact that I may need to supplement if my supply does not go up.

So tonight, I mixed DD's cereal with formula. She was also having her second day of squash with it. After only a few bites, I started to notice DD's mouth turning red and slight breakout in a hive-like fashion. It was limited to areas that had contact with the food. I talked to my friend who is a ped and she said it sounded very much like a contact allergy as opposed to a systemic allergy since the only reaction was occurring where there had ben physical contact with the food. My ped friend really thought she'd be fine and might even be fine with the formula as long as it did not touch her skin for a prolonged period of time. She said it would be okay to try the formula again and instruct the daycare to avoid contact with the face as much as possible and wash her hands and face after each feeding.

By 30 minutes later, DD was fine. I nursed her to sleep as usual and got ready to put her to bed and she threw up all over the place. We changed her and she seemed fine and fell asleep again and then shortly after threw up again. After this happened again, we called the to talk to a nurse and she said it sounded like amilk allergy and to speak with our ped in the AM and perhaps we needed to move on to try soy and then possible lactose-free formula.

Now, DD is asleep with us in our bed and will stay here for the night. Nurse says she might throw up a couple more times to get everything out of her system but she would be okay.

So I guess I'm just writing now bc this all hit at once. DD's weight is not keeping up...I accepted that I would need to move to formula to supplement...and then when I try it, we have a bad reaction. The odd thing is, I've read so much about milk allergies and bloody stools, etc. But I've never heard of milk allergies in which the facial area turns red (like from drinking kool-aid). Does anyone have experience with this with the similar symptoms like my DD? Is it a milk allergy? Will she have a reaction with soy too?

Thanks for listening.

[mom2kandj]

Sounds like a milk allergy to me! DD has a moderate reaction to dairy (5 out of 15) and breaks out on her face when in contact. DS who has always had soy out of convenience also has the same red hive effect after eating ranch dressing. DS is up for his 18 month check and I'm asking for a referral to the pediatric allergist to get him tested. DD was tested at 4 months due to eczema and family history. DS has not been tested because he had never had any other symptoms. He never was introduced to large amounts of dairy as it is just easier to feed them both soy products than worry about keeping everything separate. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he doesn't have any other allergies!


Rose
mom 2 Katie (34 months)
& Jack (18 months)

[stillplayswithbarbies]

Keep in mind that the growth charts are for formula fed babies. Did the ped say why he was concerned? That sounds like a normal growth pattern. Logan dropped percentiles as well and my ped said it is totally normal to do that.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[kaitlinsmommy]

I just wanted to second Karen's post. We have been to the dr. for weight issues. DD was in 50th perc. at 4 months and has been in 5-10% ever since. Our dr. was concerned when she dropped off her curve, but after doing some tests, said she is healthy, happy and has hit all her developmental milestones well.

Our ped. told me I could supplement & gave me some formula but I never used it. Obviously, I can't offer you medical advice but I did meet with the lc who told me that 1) the charts are based on formula babies & 2) children have different body types. DH & I are both tall and thin and it is normal that our daughter may be too.

I just want to say that I understand the weight issue is difficult and can be stressful but, for me, it was best to go with my gut. I do give dd all the fat I can by giving her avacado, putting butter in her veggies and mixing cereal in with all her fruits & veggies. But I didn't feel comfortable supplementing with formula because I knew it would decrease my supply and I enjoy bf her.

I'm sorry I don't have any experience with allergies to formula but dd has had spells where she threw up for no apparent reason. One of these times was after she had yogurt for the first time. I tried it later and she now eats it every day with no problems.

Good luck. I'll be thinking of you.

[Momof3Labs]

We've had the weight issues that you describe - I have to run off to work, but if I don't remember to come back and tell you about my experience, please e-mail or PM me!

[COElizabeth]

Has she been 50th percentile all along? If she started smaller and then jumped up and is now falling back again, that is totally normal and is the second most common growth pattern, according to my ped. You may not need to do anything different at all! Even if she has been 50th all along, a drop to 25th doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong.

Also, I have no knowledge to base this on, but it just seems to me that it couldn't be a good idea to give someone a food that makes her face turn red, even if it doesn't do the same thing inside! Even if she hadn't thrown up, that would make me very nervous. I do know that allergies can get worse, and I wouldn't want to risk an escalating reaction. I think Lori has some information about how soy formulas can also be associated with intensifying milk allergies, so I wouldn't turn to that except as a last resort. In fact, I think a lactose-reduced formula may be preferable to a soy one in the case of a milk sensitivity. I am not an expert on the specialty formulas, though - I am just repeating what I remember from her or someone else's post a while ago.

My inclination would be to keep using BM exclusively and to try not to replace too much with solids (which are lower in calories). I would also try to use high-fat solids like avocado when possible.

Elizabeth, Mom to James, 9-20-02

[Jen in Chicago]

I have no advise for you. I am sure you will get through this and find the right source of nutrition for baby. The joys of parenting!

[hellokitty1]

Thanks for everyone's encouragement. Sydney slept with us last night and seemed fine this morning.

Regarding the weight gain issue, I have to say that my ped didn't make me feel upset about it. She did point out that she was not overly concerned but didn't want to wait another three months to see how she was proggressing. Elizabeth, you are right on target about her weight gain progression. Sydney started out at 15% at birth, then 25% at 2 mos, then 50% at 4mos and now 25% at 6 mos so it's exactly like you say. That makes me feel better. By the way, a friend directed me to this url about weight progression in breastfed babies in case anyone else is interested.
(http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/weight-gain.html)

As far as the issue with formula, I most definitely want to exclusively breast feed for as long as possible. But the fact is I don't pump enough for what she eats at daycare. There have been some comments about how I should just BF and supplementing will affect my supply. I am most definitely mursing as my first choice, but there will be days when I don't have enough for her bottles (can't squeeze blood out of a rock) and I will have no choice but to add some formula to her botttles at daycare. As far as supplemeting causing my supply to drop, I'm not sure if I'm missing something but if I still nurse and pump the same amount as I do now, how will supplementing affect my supply. I only plan to supplement in the bottles she already gets at school. I've never felt like she doesn't get enough from nursing. So I don't plan to supplement with a bottle after nursing. Maybe she's just a good nurser but pumping just doesn't impress my boobs??? :)

As far as the reaction to formula, I have a call out to my ped about how to progress to other types, if necessary. Today, I grabbed for my freezer stash for extra. (Less than 10 bags left :(). And I mixed her cereal with squash instead of formula or BM. I may try some soy tomorrow if the doctor ssys it's okay.

I'll keep you all updated. Thanks for your words of encouragement. I know I never would've made it this far with breastfeeding without you guys.

[stillplayswithbarbies]

Can you add another pumping session to your day? Have you checked to be sure your pump is in good working order? When I replace the valves in mine, I get another ounce per day. I just had Ameda replace the whole thing because the suction was less than it used to be, and now I get 2 more ounces a day than I had been.

Sometimes what is seen as a pumping problem is really a pump problem, and changing pumps or fixing the pump can help.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[jennifer13]

Supplementing can affect supply when people subsitute a bottle and don't pump, and because the baby is better suction than the pump, and stimulates milk-production hormones. So nursing all day will build milk supply better than pumping all day. But, as someone who works, pumps and also has to supplement a bottle or two for the daycare, I just want to offer my support in supplementing; if I had to pump more than I already do I would lose my mind. And like you said, you can only sqeeze so much blood from a stone. For me, permission (granted to myself, from myself!) to supplement has allowed me to continue breastfeeding longer than I would have if it had to be exclusive breastfeeding.

Good luck, and wait to hear what your ped says because some babies who are allergic to milk are also allergic to soy and have to go on the nutramagin (sp?) formula. Good luck and hang in there!!

Jennifer
Mom to Norah 5/23/03

[houseof3boys]

Vivian you have already gotten great advice on not to be concerned on the weight gain or lack thereof....it is perfectly normal!

I just wanted to say I am sure that was quite stressful to go through and I know you cannot wait for all of this to pass. Here's hoping it goes by quickly for you both!!!! :)

[spu]

the funny thing about percentile charts is that if a baby has a full diaper, or hasn't pooped in a while, she'll weigh more than if his diaper was fresh and if he just pooped. Plus, if she's weighed toward the end of the day, she'll weigh more than if weighed in the morning. I try not to pay attention to the charts too much. My babies have always been at the low end of the scale (10% for weight...) but my ped. said to me, "If you compare yourself to other women your age, where would you fall for weight? for height?" and being that I'm kind of short and kind of light, I'd be at the low end of the spectrum too... so not to worry as long as the baby is thriving.

susan

twin girls 7.20.02
charlotte + else

http://sunger2.home.comcast.net/bash/nonflash/year.html

[missym]

Hi Vivian,

I'm sorry you're going through the stress of worrying about Sydney's weight. Believe me, I know how hard it can be. DD has been consistently slow to gain weight since birth, and has dropped percentiles as well. It doesn't help that she's growing like a weed in length! (We've had head circumference concerns, as well, but that's another topic.)

DD is breastfed and won't take bottles, so supplementing wasn't an option for us. However, the ped suggested that we add a scoop or two of powdered formula to each jar of solid food she gets, as well as a dollup of margarine. We then use a little rice cereal to thicken it. This has worked well for us; she's still thin but we feel like she's gaining a little better now. It might be worth trying with Sydney once you sort out what formula she can handle.

Good luck!

Missy, mom to Gwen 03/03

[sunny2003]

Hi Vivian,

Sorry to hear about little Sidney's woes - don't have any allergy advice to give, just wanted to offer support! and please try not to feel bad about supplementing her with formula (whichever kind ends up working for you) - bf for 6 months is an awesome accomplishment and she still will get the bulk of her nutrients from you! Sidney looks like she is happy and thriving!

Good luck!

Viv
Mommy to Kayley born on 4/28/03

[jubilee]

Vivian,
Since you said you'd like to keep breastfeeding and are having supply issues, I thought I'd mention there is a prescription called reglan that you can take to increase your milk supply. I have had really good success with it. My OB is who I contacted to get the medicine. I take it three times a day, and it honestly is the only way I am able to produce enough milk for my son. It works better than fenugreek in my opinion. There are a couple other meds that a Dr. can prescribe to help, but I haven't tried them. Maybe all you need is a little boost,

[hellokitty1]

Karen-

I cannot add another pump session to my day. But I have decided to go back to using the ISIS at work. I started using the Medela PIS, then got an ISIS for home so I could leave the PIS at work. But I loved the ISIS and used it at work for awhile but it was just taking too long since I could only pump one side at a time. Today, however, I have brought my ISIS back to work. And we'll see how it goes.

[hellokitty1]

Hi All-
I've kind of fallen off the boards the last week or so but I'm back to report our progress on pumping supply and formula supplementing.

As for pumping, I have now begun pumping exclusively with the ISIS and taking Fenugreek from GNC (instead of Vitamin World). The first few days of the new brand of fenugreek and ISIS pumping were super. So after the first incident with milk formula, I didn't need to supplement. But after a few days, my supply seemed to go back down again. I am still using the ISIS and taking Fenugreek but am currently debating if I will bite the bullet and purchase a new pump. The one I was using was the Medela PIS, which was a hand-me-down that had been through two babies before Sydney. Still deciding whether to just finish out with the ISIS or go ahead and buy another electric pump since there will eventually be baby #2. Sigh, decisions, decisions...

As for supplementing, I did it Tuesday with soy formula (per my ped's direction) and it was another downer. The daycare called to let us know she had broken out in hives and it wasn't just where there was contact. Her abdomen area was red too. Ugh, now what? My friend gave me some Enfamil Nutramigen (her DD is unable to take milk or soy). I'm going to try that tomorrow to see how it is. I noticed that Enfamil makes a "Lacto-free" formula too. Anyone know when that is used as opposed to soy? And so far all the formula we've used is Similac. Do the reactions I've talked about warrant trying another brand?

Thanks for your continued advice and support!

[jennifer13]

Vivian,

Sounds like a milk and soy allergy (a good portion of babies are allergic to both), so lacto-free would NOT solve the problem. That Nutramigen is the way to go, but you probably should call your ped first. Don't think the brand is the issue here and switching probably wouldn't matter much.

Can't help you with the pump- I had better luck with the Isis than with the Lactina I rented, but that is not the norm.

Good luck and thanks for the update!

Jennifer
Mom to Norah 5/23/03

[hellokitty1]

Thanks Jennifer-

Does anyone find it odd that she is unable to take milk and soy formulas, but she has no problem wiht my breastmilk and I don't regulate my diet?

[Tondi G]

TOTALLY NORMAL! Breastmilk is what Human babies are meant to eat... not cowsmilk based or soy based formula!!! You make what is suited for her... breast is best! Just wanted to pipe in and say that I have a friend who started with Similac and switched to Enfamil and her DD did much better on Enfamil.... there is also carnation good start but again both cow and soy based formulas so might not make a big difference there! Sounds like if you do want to formula feed that Nutrimagin might be your best option.... of course it is more expensive than the others though!!!!!

Good Luck
~Tondi
Mommy to Mason(2) and #2 edd 6/6/04