"Gendered" toys-- how do you handle them?

[quikeye]

Hi all, I have kind of a strange question... I recently bought the little ltikes kitchen & playstore combo for ds, who is too young but it was a great deal (thanks OP!) So, dh comes home and says, "What is THAT?" (Kind of joking, not angry, but obviously something wrong)...

Then we start talking about toys that are *okay* for boys and not okay; apparently the kitchen is a *not-okay* toy in his mind; and he actually said "Don't they make a workbench for boys?" (Funny, since I said he would say the exact same thing!). Our discussion then turned to me stating that if K wanted a Barbie when he was older, I would buy him one. When I was younger, I would *only* play with Transformers; no my little pony, barbie, cabbage patch (am I dating myself?)-- and I always admired my mom for getting me the toys I wanted (knowing she did catch h3ll from relatives saying, "Little girls shouldn't play with ___.")

I think it's important to let him choose, where dh thinks it's okay to tell ds there are certain toys he can't play w/ because of their gendered identities.

I'm miffed in the 1st place by dh's association with kitchen=woman... and am almost embarrassed to ask since it exposes him (in my mind) as wrong about this sort of thing.

I don't want to back down; K will play w/ the Tikes set I bought if he likes it... but I see trouble down the road as far as dh & other *more gendered* toys like Barbie, etc. and I'm just wondering how/if anyone else deals with it. So, my question-- anyone have the same issues w/ gendered toys & their families? How to deal? Do you deal with it by buying gendered toys or just avoid the issue completely and only purchase non-gendered toys like blocks and books? I'm sure there are parents out there who think just like dh does about this issue, and I'm okay with that too, I'm just looking for an opinion that's not the one we've been hashing into the ground around here :) TIA

[redhookmom]

I would not base a purchase on a gender norm. It seems kind of silly to me.

That said, dh get a little wierd too. He so much want his little boy to be accepted and normal... He doesn't want him to made fun of for playing with dolls or picnic baskets or whatever. I will continue to buy this stuff for as long as my ds will play with it - there are good lessons and skills to learn when playing with them. My dh will just have to deal.

As far as the kitchen goes, dh has no problem -- he is a chef.

For now I pick out my children's toys and will pick out all kinds of toys. When they get a little older I will respect the choices they make.

[August Mom]

Well, I've been searching for a kitchen for DS's birthday. He loves to help me cook. DH wasn't so hip on the idea. I told him that one of the males in our household was going to learn to cook - did he want it to be him or DS? Then he was a lot more on board. As far a dolls, DH is pretty opposed to those. However, if we have another baby especially, I think I will get DS a doll to model with. It does depend on his interests, though.

[peasprout]

I think men in general are more touchy about their boys being "boys" for some reason. I don't know any mothers who would mind their sons playing with kitchens or dolls, but most of their husbands would have a problem with it. Since the moms are usually the ones playing with the child all day, I say they should play with the kitchens all they want! Hey, all the famous chefs are men! ;)

[JacksMommy]

Well, I have to say I think I'm the last person I would have expected to have any "gender identity" issues with my DS - I freely buy him clothes that some might describe as pink, bought him a kitchen with all the accoutrements, dolls, etc. But I have to admit that I did feel slightly odd when my 2 year-old DS went absolutely crazy over my patent leather high-heeled shoes. His eyes lit up and he just could not get enough of touching them and my stocking-encased legs. On the one hand, it totally cracked me up, on the other, well...

My point being that people have all sorts of prejudices that are often unconscious and that can't always be helped. I'd say the best way is to challenge your DH on what he fears if your son does have, say a toy kitchen, while reminding him that what's "off-limits" is often more tantalizing than what's allowed

Good luck!

Laurel
Working Mama to Jack, 6/4/02
EDD #2 12/25/02

[jec2]

I bet those patent leather high-heels would have gone great with my red silk nightie that DS found and was playing with a week or so ago :)

I try to be as open minded as possible and know that my DH is pretty open-minded too, especially since he sees how important it is to me to "try" to raise a child that is not limited by old-fashioned gender stereotypes.

By the by, if your DH still isn't crazy about DS's kitchen set, just remind him that the majority of head chefs are male. Maybe then he'd feel better about it.

[pamela mom of 3]

I suppose i am lucky because i have girls & a boy the toys choices are all over the place and everybody plays with everything kwim?

But i will say my girls had trucks and tools long before our ds came about ;) My son loves the barbie cars LOL and playing dolly with the girls.

Of coarse as a child, i too had transformers, hotwheels and my little pony and cabbage patch kids, hmm pound puppies?? :D So i was pretty used to already having a mix of toy choices and just carried this on when i had kids.




~Pamela Mom Of 3

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/kao/otn/blobflower.gif

[hwin708]

Generally speaking, I simply ignore DH when he comes out with stupid comments like that. If, however, he feels like pushing the ridiculous issue, I feel completely justified in turning on the full-on feminist rage. After all, he is implying that women belong in the kitchen when he makes such a ridiculous statement.
Normally, unexpected wrath stops my DH cold, LOL.

[new_mommy25]

DH is a chef and does ALL the cooking around here. I'm in charge of rice, lol. We just bought the Little Tykes kitchen and DS loves it. I held him up in front of the boxes of kitchens and workbenches at TRU and chose the one DS pointed to, lol! I think it's great fun for anybody, boy, girl, young, old. We like to hear the pot boil and play peek-a-boo with the oven.

Dare I admit that DS has a collection and loves to play with those little slut Barbie dolls that are currently coming with the Happy meals? he puts them in the trunk of his car. (SIL has a thing for happy meals and she has been giving DS the toys). Lol, it doesn't bother me one bit.

[JennSimm]

I would buy the kitchen too! My boys are only almost 6 months, but i plan on getting them one. My DD's had one, and they loved it, so why not the boys?!? My mom bought my nephews boy dolls when they were little, and they loved them. With them being boy dolls, her DH didnt have much of a problem with it. We have a neighbor boy that when he was younger loved to play with his moms old barbie dolls. He would pack up the case and come over and play barbies with my 3 dd's for hours. He also plays cowboys with them in the barn, and they ride horses, go carts, etc all together. That being said, my girls are pretty much girlie girls. The oldest (12) very much so, BUT...she can drive the backhoe herself and dig a hole...she can drive a 16 row corn-planter herself and plant the corn...and she knows how to drive a truck as well as most people I know! This fall she is going to learn to drive the combine! I think all kids should be able to experience and play with all things. I loved tonka trucks and electric race cars when I was young! I hope your DS LOVES playing with the kitchen!

Jenn

[sarasprings]

It's so natural for any child to be interested in the kitchen if he/she sees someone cooking or doing the dishes. We spend a lot of time in there. Before my son was born we bought a little kitchen set. When the two other two year old boys in the neighborhood come over the kitchen with cut-up wooden food and vacuum cleaner are the most popular indoor toys and the doll stroller (pink from a garage sale) is by far the favorite outdoor toy. My son sees strollers, babies, cleaning, and cooking all day long so I would expect him to be interested in that stuff. I think that husbands don't always look at it from the perspective that kids imitate what they see.

My husband is a kindergarten teacher and every year has the "there's no such thing as girl and boy colors" talk with his kids. He's definitely is not perfect with the gender thing, but our son does have hand-me-down flower pajamas and watermelon colored shirts.

[pritchettzoo]

I would sit down with DH and have a serious talk with him about this now before it becomes a problem down the road. Then you need to keep reminding him about your feelings and prodding him for his. He probably does have stereotypes in his head (we all do!), and you can help him work them out for himself before he passes them along wholesale to DS.

I can dig up some research studies on gendered toys if you'd like (or you can search for them yourself using something like an ERIC database generally available through your public library, even online in most cases). Bottom line is that boys will gravitate to "boy" toys when they're in groups of other boys. They'll follow the leader and someone always knows how to make a gun out of a drill or a shoe or even a Barbie doll bent at an angle. If you allow your home to be a safe zone where he can explore all kinds of toys, he'll figure out stuff for himself. Even if he wants dolls, he likely won't play with them in the same manner--he'll probably put them in a car and crash it and watch them fly out. ;)

I would encourage DH to play with the kitchen with him. More importantly, encourage DH to actually cook with him--that's how you can break down stereotypes. Let your children see both of you doing traditionally gendered kinds of work. If you hate to do yardwork (as I do with a burning passion), tell your kids that DH does the yardwork because you dislike it and in return, you dust because it drives him batty. Not that he does yardwork because he's the man and you dust because it's woman's work. Little things like that actually do matter.

Good luck!

Anna

[lukkykatt]

I have 2 sons, and yes, we have alot of "boy toys". But we also have 2 dolls, a kitchen w/accessories, a vacuum cleaner, a shopping cart, a cleaning cart, and a FP dollhouse that was my niece's. I have to say that DH never said anything about any of them, except for the dollhouse(and yes, we still have it).

My feeling is to let them play with whatever they want to that is interesting to their imaginations. I also plan on raising them so that they know how to cook, clean and do laundry, but maybe that is for another post...

My 2 yo also loves to wear my shoes and barrettes, and loves to play with my makeup. My older son did too at that age, and now he has no interest whatsoever. I think that keeping children from playing with something (as long as it is not harmful, and age appropriate) would only make them more curious about it anyway.

[mamicka]

DH sometimes makes similar comments but he was fine with the kitchen for DS. Usually when this topic comes up we try to talk about why it bothers DH... like he doesn't want DS to be made fun of or he wants him to fit in. So then we talk about how we can do that, because it really has nothing to do with what toys he plays with at this age. It usually comes down to talking about how we'll encourage DS to be well-rounded.

Sorry this is criptic, holding sleeping DS.

[mommyj_2]

I agree with the PPs who suggested you have a long chat with your DH, and talk specifically about the implications of his opposition to your DS playing with a toy kitchen. Also, if you're doing all the cooking at home (which I'm not sure you are), then maybe you could suggest that your DH cook some meals so he can get it out of his mind that only women should cook.
My DS loves helping me in the kitchen. He's 20 months old, and I let him stir and help me pour ingredients into the mixing bowl. He loves it. I also just ordered a Waldorf doll for my DS, because I think it's important that he develops his nurturing side as well. I am sure he will be a more well-rounded human being if he is exposed to all sorts of activities and not limited by what society says is acceptable. I played with cap guns, and was a total tom boy when I was little. But, I also loved wearing the most frilly dresses out there. I'm grateful that my parents allowed me to explore my own interests, and din't say I had to conform to what mainstream society said was okay. I'm guessing if they had done that, I would have rebelled and given them a really hard time.
Good luck sorting all this out with your DH.

[Saartje]

>I think it's important to let him choose, where dh thinks
>it's okay to tell ds there are certain toys he can't play w/
>because of their gendered identities.

This isn't the most tactful way you could get your point across, but it might be helpful (particularly if you can couch it in more tactful language): If your DH think's it's ok to tell your son he can't play with certain toys because of their gendered identities, does he also think it's ok to tell your son not to play with certain toys because of their racial identities? Ok to tell him not to play with certain children because they're girls, or because they're a different race? I'm not saying they're exact equivalents, but there are certainly some strong parallels between sex and gender stereotypes and racial and ethnic stereotypes. It can be helpful to examine our assumptions in that light.

FWIW, when I saw someone (I can't recall who) post on a thread about toy kitchens that she wished she had a daughter so she could get one, I honestly didn't understand what she was talking about. I had to think about it for a while, probably because DH does 90% of the cooking (and my parents split it pretty equally). It honestly took me about half an hour to make the girl=kitchen connection.

[tigalig]

Our ds has a Little Tikes kitchen, a FP grocery store, and I face the same battles around here. I'm not sure I'm "winning" (if there is such a thing), but DS also loves Cinderella and it's slowing becoming more and more of an issue. Sorry I can't be of more help, I just wanted you to know that you're in good company.

[kijip]

If your DH think's it's ok to
>tell your son he can't play with certain toys because of their
>gendered identities, does he also think it's ok to tell your
>son not to play with certain toys because of their racial
>identities? Ok to tell him not to play with certain children
>because they're girls, or because they're a different race?

I think you hit the nail on the head well. I am a math/stats/econ person so I did not take too many humanities courses but I had a great professor who used the gender exapmle as a way to broach institutionalized racism. He was quite sucessful with drawing this comparision.


>FWIW, when I saw someone (I can't recall who) post on a
>thread about toy kitchens that she wished she had a daughter
>so she could get one, I honestly didn't understand what she
>was talking about. I had to think about it for a while,
>probably because DH does 90% of the cooking (and my parents
>split it pretty equally). It honestly took me about half an
>hour to make the girl=kitchen connection.

Ditto.

----

I think that some boys and girls (perhaps most) are naturally drawn to gendered toys but some kids are more fluid with what they like and some kids are naturally drawn to the opposite gender's typical toys. I know I was basically a little boy as a child!

My husband and I figure that we will provide a mix and let Toby pick. So far his faves are musical instruments, trucks, stroller and dolly/stuffed animals. If my son eschews "girls" things and models highly gendered behavior, fine, but he will be raised with the model that preparing food, caring for babies etc are PEOPLE things....how do we expect men to be fathers when as boys they are teased for trying to nuture a doll or copy their parents in the kitchen?

I don't think it is acceptable to take away a safe toy on the premise that it is not gender matched. You will only embarass him. I still remember the shame I felt about not wanting the wear dresses, abount wanting to play in the mud with the boys. It did not stop me from wearing pants only or playing in the mud but it made me upset with the people who chided me to the point I did not trust them later on when I needed to. I still remember burning with rage/shame when my father said "It nice to see you acting like a girl for once" when I wore a dress for a school play.

The insidious thing about limiting what boys play with is that when it comes right down to it it is plain and simple fear of homosexuality. NOTHING a young boy plays with will make him gay or prevent him from being gay. My gay brother was a ruff and tumble boy and is a man's man kind of a guy. Sports, sports and more sports. Hot wheels, mud piles etc. Opposite, my husband, who is clearly heterosexual, grew up hating boys' sports and instead preferred computers, playing music, baking, show choir/dance. He is still obsessed with fashion, he sews, he has subscribed to Martha Stewart Magazine since he was 17 years old....and none of this "made him gay" or prevented him from being heterosexual. This is nature for him since he was raised to be a ruff and tumble boy....his father gave him sports equipment, signed him up for teams/boxing and flying lessons, bought him guns, (man it gets worse in ways you don't want to know).........

[mommyj_2]

>
>The insidious thing about limiting what boys play with is
>that when it comes right down to it it is plain and simple
>fear of homosexuality. NOTHING a young boy plays with will
>make him gay or prevent him from being gay. My gay brother
>was a ruff and tumble boy and is a man's man kind of a guy.
>Sports, sports and more sports. Hot wheels, mud piles etc.
>Opposite, my husband, who is clearly heterosexual, grew up
>hating boys' sports and instead preferred computers, playing
>music, baking, show choir/dance. He is still obsessed with
>fashion, he sews, he has subscribed to Martha Stewart Magazine
>since he was 17 years old....and none of this "made him gay"
>or prevented him from being heterosexual. This is nature for
>him since he was raised to be a ruff and tumble boy....his
>father gave him sports equipment, signed him up for
>teams/boxing and flying lessons, bought him guns, (man it gets
>worse in ways you don't want to know).........



Thank you for saying this. I think this is a really important point, and one which needs to be made over and over. It is so important that we make our parenting decisions from a place of love and not from fear or hatred. I think that these fears are often at a subconscious level, so they are really easy to ingore or overlook. I also think that many people who aren't homophobic accidentally reinforce many of the gender divisions that are largely grounded in homophobia, often out of fear that their sons or daughters won't fit in.
Also, thanks to the OP for posting this thread. I think you started a really important discussion.

[brittone2]

So interesting. My DH in the days before DS probably would have not loved the idea DS playing with dolls, etc. However, he really has grown and evolved as a daddy. He's a super AP-oriented dad who thinks nothing of carrying our 13 month old around in a sling in public on a regular basis. He is a very "man's man" kind of guy in general, but definitely isn't embarrassed to be seen sporting a sling in public. He and his brother love to cook, whereas his sister is in her early 30s and lives on instant mac and cheese.

We are definitely planning on getting DS a kitchen and involving him in cooking. Neither of us can wait for that to happen. My parents are getting ready to move and recently brought over my doll stroller (gray in color, sort of looks like a graco), baby bassinet and dolls that I played with as a child. I asked them to keep them for DS. He is already fascinated with looking at his "baby" although he's too young to pretend play with it. He likes to touch the baby's face, etc. If he continues to show an interest, I'd love to get him a baby sling for his doll too. I think teaching that nurturing is so very important.

I grew up w/ four brothers and as a result spent plenty of time playing w/ transformers, matchbox cars, etc. My parents never thought twice about it. My dad did sort of look at me like I was crazy though when I suggested that I'd love to have the baby bassinet/stroller/doll for Logan, but he got over it. I think that underscores the issue that it is tougher for boys who want to play with tthings stereotyped as "girl" toys vs. a girl who plays with "boy" toys.

My MIL is probably going to have a cow about DS playing w/ a doll though. DH and I mentioned something once about Logan taking piano lessons when he grows up (only if he wanted to) and she looked at me with big eyes and said, "BOYS don't play the piano!!" as if I had lost my mind. Huh???? Explain that to the many male classical composers like Beethoven and Bach! I can't even wrap my head around comments like that, kwim? Sort of like the PP that couldn't even conceive of someone who wouldn't buy their DS a kitchen.

I have a very close friend who has a 6 year old who about 1-2 years ago was obsessed with Polly Pocket because his sister played w/ it. I tried explaining that it was probably the fact that it was tiny/secretive and kids just love things like that. Nothing to be concerned with at all! Her whole family was so stressed over it and kept pushing very "BOY" toys toward him constantly. He also had a little thing for fake press on nails, which cracked me up. The more of an issue they made of it, the more obsessed he became...he started hiding under the bed with his sister's Lee Press on Nails :) LOL. Once they got over it, he got over it. It is all very normal IMHO.

Okay, enough rambling from me. I hope that DS will enjoy all kinds of toys and have very varied interests. I'd have a serious talk with DH about what he is setting up for the future...a DS who expects his wife will cook/clean for him, etc. Those are lessons I would not embrace my DH teaching my DS kwim? Just my two cents...I know each family is different but I would not be comfortable with those gender roles being forced onto DS.

[barbarhow]

Great topic. My DH is usually quite open minded. He loves the kitchen set, pots and pans and M&D foods that Jack got for his birthday. However, he does get a little fidgety when Jack puts on my wedding shoes and carries my purse and says "Tinky Winky bag!" I think it is a riot and a wonderful way for him to exercise his imagination. When I took the time to explain this to DH he relented and agreed that it was nothing more.
I think the PP is right about it being a long standing fear of homosexuality and that when the irrationality of it is pointed out most reasonable men will come to their senses.
I was a complete tomboy-I played army, baseball, tackle football, etc. It certainly didn't sway me away from men.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
expecting #2, a Yankee fan, around 5/6/05!

[Chelsey333]

I got slack about buying a kitchen for my 2 year old also. My dh joked about it, but he would probably rather me not. But it is one of my ds' favorite thing to play with. He loves cooking up some food. There are some gender type things I do try to avoid, like dolls and pink stuff - but if my ds wanted it, I would probably get it for him also. Although, he wanted a purple/pink Dora the Explora backpack and I talked him into a navy blue one instead.

[duvie]

This is such a great post. My DS is only 5 months old, but I know that this will be an issue. My mom already bought DS a doll and the book William's Doll and DH kind of rolled his eyes. I think that I will just try to take it one step at a time. It is hard when you want your kids to be open-minded and happy, but also don't want them to be teased. The whole gender identity thing starts when they are babies-- girls' outfits are often frilly and pink and boys' outfits have sports and trucks on them!

[stillplayswithbarbies]

There is a recent discussion similar to this in the Reality Layette forum titled "Jude".

[kijip]

DH and I mentioned something once about Logan
>taking piano lessons when he grows up (only if he wanted to)
>and she looked at me with big eyes and said, "BOYS don't play
>the piano!!" as if I had lost my mind. Huh????

Opps!, I better tell that to my husband who has played piano since childhood and my son's godfather who has played piano seriously since age 6 or so....they both appear to have been boys. And both have grown into fine men.

Maybe point out that music skills are seriously great for math reasoning? My husband played piano and his math scores were none too shabby, majoring in physics at first and now opting for a pharmacy program. Heck, I played cello and I ended up as a math major....

I agree with you, that is really odd. Especially since female classical pianists often claim that they can't get as far as if they were men with getting booked, getting music contracts etc.

[brittone2]

LOL Katie...my MIL is just odd in general ;) Believe me ;)