Learning Tower people - what am I missing??

[Judegirl]

I didn't want to hijack Eileen's thread, but I have to ask how it's working for you guys with kids the same age as mine!

How come everyone else's house seems to be safe for their kids to reach all the countertops? We have an LT, I thought it'd be great in the new apartment, but now the *very* last thing we want is for this kid to be able to reach *more* stuff! Our only sanity comes from moving things to the back of tables and counters.

And they can play in the sinks? Where are your dishes?? What about the hot water? Are there not appliances right there or knives that are reachable once they can get to the counters, etc?

I thought she could use it to climb on/in, but now everywhere I could put it is too close to a surface where we keep stuff she can't touch. And then I'm seeing that that's actually the *objective* for everyone else! There's something I must not be getting here. Where are your fruit bowls, your glasses, your cups of hot coffee as you move through the day, your keys, your telephones...etc etc etc?

Scratching my head and squinting my eyes,
Jude

[sdbc]

We don't have an LT, but we do pull a chair up to the counter for dd to stand on. We DEFINITELY have to clear the counter where she can reach before doing it.

In terms of playing in the sink. I'm not worried about hot water, because with our setup, she can reach into the sink, but cannot reach the knobs. Again, we can only let her play in the sink when it doesn't have dishes in it. Oh, and we are always right there... she's never up at the counter without us.


HTH!

[MarisaSF]

Jude-
I'm not sure if you're making fun of me/us or not, :P
but here goes:

Knives are in a drawer
Keys are in another room in my backpack.
Dishes are in the dishwasher or on the shelves, for the most part. Some are in the sink occasionally, but I take out the knives and things I don't want her to get to.
The hot water she can't turn on (yet), but it takes forever for it to heat up anyway, so it doesn't worry me.

FWIW, we played "fort" with it in the living room today. So it's not just for reaching things in the kitchen. Jazz is 16 mos.

[Sillygirl]

I have a similar concern, sort of, and therefore I've never seen the appeal of the LT. The kitchen sink is, bacteriologically speaking, the dirtiest, filthiest thing in the house, including the toilets. Probably many of you rinse your sink with dilute bleach for a half hour soak three times a day, but for those of us that do not, it's a microbial nightmare. So I have never been too thrilled about the idea of my son playing in the sink, hot water taps or not.

It's just a weird thing with me - I sat through too many microbiology lectures - but I treat my kitchen sink like a hot zone and don't ever want Jonathan to play in it.

[brittone2]

Jude, if I was as busy as you are now, I'd have a sink full of dishes and stuff all over my counters too, believe me ;)

Logan can't reach temp control on the faucet yet so we're okay there for now. When he's tall enough to do that, maybe I can get around it by lowering the height of the tower a bit? I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I moved knives into the kitchen cabinet a while ago so they are off the counter. I'll need to put a latch on that cabinet when/if DS starts climbing on a chair to get to the cabinets but so far he's not a big climber.

It also helps that one of our counters is a peninsula that used to have cabinets above it. We took those cabinets out, and now that countertop is really nice and wide. I always have the option to push everything back out of reach if need be. I usually remove any appliances that are within reach but that usually only involves the coffee maker which I can slide back into a corner that he can't reach from the LT.

I do make a good effort to make sure the sink is clean-ish more often now that he plays in it sometimes. Let us not speak of the times I've left a few bits of food in the sink like a piece or two of pasta that slipped away and DS has decided to eat it straight out of the sink (ugggggh how gross!!!) :(

I hope you'll be feeling the LT love soon ;)

[MarisaSF]

Glad I never studied microbiology! There's enough OCD in this house already...

[brittone2]

Oh, I hear you on that. Sinks are nasty. I do try to keep it pretty clean, and not that it is the only source of nasties that grow in sinks, but we rarely eat meat so I don't have too much worry there's that much e. coli in there. . Lots of other gross and horrible things I'm sure, but he mostly plays with just the running water by filling/pouring out of a measuring cup.

We use our LT a LOT just at the counter in general though...every single day. He does like playing in the sink w/ water but we also do a lot of cooking or projects at the counter that don't involve the sink.

[mommyj_2]

At some point, kids can reach everything on the counter anyway (by getting a chair and climbing up...something my 3 year old niece has done more than once). I figure we can start teaching DS some safety issues now, and then they'll be in his head when he's old enough to reach everything on his own. He's been cutting food since he was around 20 months old, so he understands that knives are sharp and that they aren't toys. He knows the burners are hot and that he'll get hurt if he touches them.
I let him play in the sink with our glass dishes, and he's never broken one. He knows to be careful with them. A lot of stuff is just a matter of teaching children. He loves being entrusted with responsiblities he sees as grown up (like emptying the silverware from the dishwasher, pouring his own water from a pitcher into a cup, cutting his own fruit, etc.). Does he make a big mess sometimes? Of course. But I just don't freak out about it. I know he's two years old, and that accidents will happen. Even if he breaks a dish, it can always be replaced. I've broken way more dishes than he ever has.
We are careful to keep the knives out of reach, and don't put dirty knives in the sink.
He's left his own messages on our answering machine several times, but I love listening to them. I don't keep my keys in the kitchen, but if I did, it would just be a matter of putting them up in a high place (which you have to do by the time they're 3 anyway).
I think the LT works for a certain kind of household and parenting style, and might not work for everyone. I know for us it was a life changing purchase, since my DS used to cry at my legs every time I cooked. Now he keeps himself busy, or helps me, and our time in the kitchen is fun instead of upsetting for him. I think a LT wouldn't be good for a hands off parent who tends to leave her/his child alone for extended periods of time. That would be disaster with an LT. Of course, this could always be avoided by putting the LT in a closet when it wasn't being used. I also know a lot of parents tend to get stressed out if their kids get water all over their clothes, spill things, or get dirty. I'm definitely not like that at all, so having DS "wash" dishes is great at our house. I also never took microbiology, and tend to think exposure to some germs is a good thing, so I don't mind if he's playing in a sink full of germs. He's been doing it for almost a year, and has been totally healthy.
So...I guess it probably depends on your parenting style, your views on who/what/how things should be done in the kitchen, your child's tempermant, etc. I know a stepping stool was out of the question with my DS, because he loves to climb and jump, so we needed the added stability of the LT. He also likes to participate in our activities, and loves cooking.
I'll stop rambling now :)

ETA:
I just reread my post, and I hope it doesn't come off as judgemental. I know there are all kinds of different children, and that the same type of thing won't work for everyone. Also, I think the LT is great for kitchens that are roomy enough that it doesn't get in the way, and where there is room to put the dangerous stuff out of reach.

[caheinz]

We have a small piece of countertop to the side of the stovetop that we can easily clear off for play.

We've tried the sink a couple of times, but got tired of the mess created. (Plus, DS complains after getting wet... even if he's the one getting himself wet!)

Knives are in a locked drawer. I do have to keep reminding DH to keep the used ones pushed back on the counter (DS can reach the edge easily without the LT).

Dishes are on another part of the counter. If the stovetop is in use, I push the LT farther away... DS knows "hot", but doesn't fully have the entire lesson down yet.

[Dcclerk]

That's how it is for us, too. But I honestly think that it depends more on the kids' (and parents') temperment than anything. I also let my DS help me stir things on the stove, blend smoothies in a blender, open and get things out of the refrigerator freely, etc. Around my friends, I am definitely an outlier.

DS knows which knives are is, and doesn't like it if the water gets really hot. He knows that if he doesn't follow directions, he'll have to be done helping, and he LOVES to help. And, thankfully, I know not a single thing about all of the horrible things that my kitchen sink is harboring, so I don't give a second thought to it. I figure my kids are missing out on the immunity-boosting animals, so I might as well give them something else to boost their immunity.

[Judegirl]

No, Marisa, of course I'm not making fun of anyone!! I was just stymied; our sink is always full of dishes (no dishwasher) and our counters are covered by dished we just washed, or dirty dishes waiting to be put into the sink...I honestly didn't realize that we were anomalous in this regard, LOL!

Rory grabs everything she can reach and hides it on us, rips it, runs with it, or otherwise trashes it...it's like living with an octopus on speed. I figured maybe we were the only ones... or that everyone else was somehow able to wash, dry and put away their dishes several times a day!

I suspect we also don't have very much counter space - one dish drainer, one coffee maker and dirty glasses we don't want to get broken in the sink pretty much take up all the counter space in the kitchen. :)

But I hope the replies keep coming; I'm getting lots of ideas about how we can still have lots of fun with the LT!

Best,
Jude

[ellies mom]

I want it so that I can park DD on one side of the island so she can entertain herself while I make dinner. We have barstools but if she is sitting on them she isn't really high enough to do stuff but mostly she tends to kick at the back of the island and I'm afraid she'll tip herself over backwards onto our wood floors. They are too tall for her to stand on and when she trys to move from one to the other she slips down in between them and falls. I don't like to have her standing on the dining room chairs because they are padded and whatever the padding is, is very springy and she just doesn't weigh enough so she tends to lose her balance.

As far as most of your concerns, I'm lucky enough in this house to have plenty of counter and cupboard space as well as the island. So most of the things you mentioned are stored off the counters. Plus I'm really picky about keeping applainces off the counter anyhow; even the toaster lives in a cabinet. We also have a desk for the rest of the stuff like the phone and keys.

[muskiesusan]

>Plus I'm really picky about keeping applainces
>off the counter anyhow; even the toaster lives in a cabinet.

That's me! I drive my Dh crazy that everything is put away. I just hate clutter! We are lucky to have a dishwasher, so most of the times dishes aren't a concern, but even when they are out, it doesn't really bother me to have the boys around them. Right now we are in the process of remodeling our kitchen and none of the cabinets have doors on them. I spend have my day picking up pyrex and alliances dragged all over the house, but I figure it keeps them quiet and our of my hair!

I don't have a LT, but at any given time, there are two stools and several chairs pulled up around the counter. Dangerous items, like knives, are on top of the refrigerator. I don't let them play in the sink, but I do fill up bowls of water and let them go at it with cups, turket baster, etc.

I think this all depends on your child, too. When Nick was younger, I did not do any of this. He was a climber, so everything was used to get to another point. Access to the countertops meant climbing up to the upper cabinets and trying to climb into them. Alex doesn't think that far ahead yet!

Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[mudder17]

LOL, if you saw my house, you wouldn't say that everything is put away! :)

I've only had the LT for 3 days total and right now it's kept in the kitchen right in front of the back door (because it's too cold to leave the door open for the cats like we often do in the warmer days), next to the light switch. When she's in the tower in that position, she can't reach anything except the light switches and she does have a ball with them. :) She can climb up herself and yesterday I fed her 3.5 bowls of pasta while she stood up in the tower. She was playing peek-a-boo and eating the pasta while in funny positions, but she really enjoyed the whole experience (and so did I).

Anyway, when I let her play in the sink, I do quickly clear it (yes, I have a dishwasher) and make sure all knives are out of her reach. I haven't yet let her play with more than a butter knife, but I am considering it after reading MommyJ's post. I just remember my parents wouldn't let us play with knives, which of course meant we wanted to and when I was in middle school, I used a sharp fruit knife and ended up slicing my finger. I was scared to tell my parents and wrapped it with a paper towel to slow the bleeding. Anyway, I think if I had "practiced" with other knives and had some knives I was allowed to use, I would probably not have used this one. But who knows? We parents have to make the best decisions we can and just hope for the best.

And although I am a chemist by training, I know enough about germs to know that the sink is pretty disgusting. On the other hand, when I clear the dishes, I'll give it a quick rinse and then just figure that all the germs Kaya picks up, she'll just develop immunity for. :P I also do give her hands a quick washing when she's finished. When I'm doing something at the counter, Kaya really enjoys being up high, so while right now the rest of my countertops are still filled with clutter, I'm slowly working to clear them up so that Kaya can join me at the kitchen counters every day. I've been letting her eat off a glass plate (tea saucer size) and she's done pretty well with it, so I figure I just have to teach her to be careful with the more delicate things. Besides, these dishes were part of a set from Target and they weren't that expensive. Most of our dishes don't match that much anyway, so I figure if she breaks one, well, that's all part of the learning process. Obviously I don't want her to cut her finger, but I'm not that worried about it. Oh, and with the hot water, well, in the kitchen she can't reach it, but in the bathroom she can and she's really understood hot for whatever reason. In the bathroom she can control the hot and cold water and she knows the left tap controls the hot water. When she notices the water getting warm, I notice she'll say, "hot" and turn down the hot water. So I'm not too concerned with her getting bad burns. Burning her mouth (slightly) with food when she was too enthusiastic has taught her that she needs to feel the food with her hand before putting it in her mouth. And even when certain foods are lukewarm (basically room temp), I notice she'll say "hot" and blow on it before putting it in her mouth. So it's all part of the learning process. And for those hot cups of tea or coffee? Kaya knows "hot tea" is in mugs (even when it's coffee) and she'll point at it and move her hand close to it, but she won't touch it. As for the phone, I think I let her play with it often enough that it's not such a temptation, if that makes any sense. Anyway, I'm sure I'll be slowly reorganizing the kitchen counters in the next few days with trial and error, but I'm not in a super hurry. The main thing I will do is just make sure all pills, vitamins, etc., are in top cabinets where she can't reach, even with the LT. Otherwise, I may just hand her a spray bottle and towel and let her "clean" the countertops. She LOVES doing that!


Eileen

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/candle.gif for Leah
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif

http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/t/catcatcvi20040222_4_Kaya+is.png
Kaya's a cousin! 10/1/05, 5lb13oz

[kitmama]

I just want to say that I totally hear you on this, especially about not having enough space to get dangerous things out of reach. I would love to have a safe place for littleman to stand in the kitchen and "help" me, but my kitchen, I'm afraid, often looks like a war zone. Plus it would be totally in the way anywhere we put it in the kitchen. I could clear things specifically for him temporarily, but if the LT was available here littleman would be dragging it wherever he wants in no time, and I may or may not notice in time (since I'm often dividing my time between the kiddos, my WAH duties and the housework as best I can). We do not have anyplace I could lock the tower up, unless I lugged it upstairs to use it and back downstairs to put it away. So, I've reluctantly decided that the tower will have to wait until we have a bigger kitchen and more storage space.

Littleman can already find ways to access all sorts of things, but luckily most of it either he's learned how to handle it or I've decided it will be OK if it gets messed up. There have been surprisingly few mishaps so far. I read somewhere about "the $25 rule"- if what he's doing isn't doing any more than $25 worth of damage, then I try to let it go. (Though sometimes even if he's not doing anything dangerous or destroying something, I still may have to put a stop to it for the sake of my sanity!) Anyway it's been a useful way to remind myself to let him explore.

[jd11365]

I have a small kitchen, so we have a regular step stool...that can easily be picked up and moved away so she's not always in reach of the counter. But, knives are away...we do have a block, but it's pushed far back, and she's been told she will get HURT if she touches them. She doesn't like to get hurt. She doesn't like dirty dishes, so that's not a problem. Keys are on a hook at the door, and the stuff like mail and the like that gets thrown on a counter is on a higher level "bar" that is completely out of reach.

For $15 bucks, it was the best deal, especially with my lack of space, IMO. Might be something to consider.


http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/30970.jpg

[lotsofjoy]

We have something similar, only it's plastic and the steps are a bit wider. With twin toddlers and a preschooler I would need at least 2 learning towers in my kitchen and that is just TOO much. So this works well for us. Although the twins are only 18 months and it doesn't quite let them get to the tops of the counters, although our counters are higher than most others I've seen.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0006OLT6O.01-APRB74G8QOR1X._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg