Side Curtain Airbags and child safety seats?

[momathome]

We are looking to purchase a 2004 Toyota Sienna. One of the packages we are looking at for this vehicle includes side curtain airbags. Does anyone know if side curtain airbags and carseats are compatable?? Is this a no-no like it is with a carseat and a front-passenger airbag or does it provide an additional measure of safety? Anyone who has this info, I would really appreciate it!!!
-Lauren

[justlearning]

I don't have the answer to your question but just wanted to say thanks for posting it because I was wondering the same thing. Last week there was a program on Dateline (or another show) that showed results from crash tests done by the Insurance Institute on small SUVs. The results provided very strong evidence for the importance of side air bags--without them, many accidents would likely be fatal that would not be fatal with the side bags. In their tests, though, they used a crash-dummy in the back seat that was supposed to represent a typical 10-year-old, I believe. I didn't hear them say anything about the issue of having a car seat in the rear seat. My guess would be there'd be no problem if the car seat is in the center rear seat, but my question comes in when considering having two kids and thus up against the door.

I'm looking forward to reading posts to your question from others who may have answers...

[sbaker]

Here's a link to some info:
http://www.safekids.org/tier3_cd.cfm?content_item_id=6551&folder_id=170#I_know_my_children_shouldn't_ride_in _the_front_passenger_seat_with_an_active_air_bag._ What_about_side_air_bags?

Just my two cents...
:) :+ :)
Sara
SAHM to Rayce
02/09/02

[William]

There hasn't been much research on side curtain airbags and children. That SafeKids.org article refers to NHTSA studies on conventional side airbags that cushion the torso, and not side curtains that protect the head. NHTSA is still perfecting the testing methodology for torso (thorax) air bags.

Regarding torso side airbags, NHTSA's studies have raised issues with out-of-position (OOP) children and those airbags. E.g. a child sleeping with his or her head directly on top of where the torso-mounted airbag deploys. NHTSA has conducted some studies and has required manufacturers to 1) post warnings and 2) perform internal testing, and, if the side airbags may be hazardous to out-of-position kids or just in general, to ship those vehicles with the side airbags deactivated and make the dealer review the decision to activate them with the buyer.

Very few vehicles have torso side airbags in the rear. Mercedes-Benz has them in almost all their vehicles and has apparently found them to be safe, as they are always shipped activated. BMW and Audi ship them deactivated. It must be noted that NHTSA had to resort to positioning the dummies out-of-position, sometimes very severely, to cause simulated injury with the torso side airbags. There are photos on their site where the dummy is pretty much unbuckled and fully leaning against the door. Or the dummy is sitting sideways across a seat with the back of its head leaning against the door sill! Personally, I don't think a properly restrained child would have a problem with them.

Side curtain airbags deploy from the roof down the side of the window. As such, they don't blow outward toward the child. There haven't been many formal NHTSA studies on them -- often they've only been tested because NHTSA was focusing on testing the torso side airbags. By the time a child's head might get near a window, the side curtain would have been deployed downward. So if there is any risk (and that is highly questionable), the child's head would have to be already pressed against the window, above the door sill. Even then, the bag may not cause an injury. And, of course, it may be difficult for your restrained child to be in that specific position.

I did read a paper where Volvo has designed their side curtains to deploy faster initially, but then slow down as they reach the door sill.

So there's still a lot of reserach to be done. Personally, I feel that the side curtains are not only safe for your restrained children, but they are a safety asset. It is true that most side curtains only cushion the head when it's high enough to impact the window (some don't have much cushioning around the door sill). But the new IIHS test should demonstrate how important they are for adult occupants and older children.

Even for younger children, they should at least help contain the flying glass in an accident. The IIHS video shown on "Dateline NBC" was frightening -- using high-speed photography, you could see slow-motion results of a side impact. The safety glass fragments into many tiny pieces and goes flying into the interior of the vehicle. Really nauseating. Side curtains will help contain some of (not all) of that.

The Sienna has some excellent safety features to protect your child. I think it's an outstanding vehicle, albeit an expensive one.

If you have a high-speed Internet connection, and Adobe Acrobat, and the inclination to wade through a very, very technical article, here is an NHTSA paper on side airbags and children. It includes some of those aforementioned photos of dummies sitting in unusual positions.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/NRDmtgs/011802SAB.pdf

[momathome]

Thanks everyone for the info. I also called the Toyota dealership last night and the guy I talked to there said that they are perfectly safe for children in carseats - because they deploy from the ceiling, they are not hitting the carseat directly like an airbag in the front seat of a car does. We are pretty certain that we will ordering the Sienna on Thursday - I can't wait! We have never owned a new car so we are very excited. We went for a teat drive last weekend and loved it. Thanks agian for the help.
-Lauren

[CPSDarren]

I agree completely with William. Every conference presentation I've seen on the topic suggests that properly restrained children are at no risk from side airbags, and should gain added protection. This may not apply for some of the earliest side airbags, but should apply to almost all those from the last couple model years.

Of course, you should still check the vehicle and child restraint owners manuals for any restrictions on airbags, including side airbags. Some may not allow placement near one for one reason or another.

Darren
www.Car-Safety.Org