Infant car seat handle position in car? Please Help!

[mominjune]

There was a debate between the 2 people inspecting my Graco Snugride car seat yesterday. It is a 2003 model of the snugride with 5 point harness, 5 possible handle postions, and cobalt blue fabric. My car is a 2000 Honda Accord (LATCH-less).

Sorry if this ends up being a repost. I posted a question about 15 minutes ago and it still hasn't shown up so I think it's lost.

The first person, a CPS tech was really helpful in showing me how to install and check everything. The only surprising thing was when she said with my particular car seat, it crash-tested best with the handle in the upright position. She said my car seat has 5 positions, as opposed to my friends' who might have 3 position handles which have traditionally been recommended to have the handle in the down position.

When the 2nd person came to look at it, she was from the police dept. and she frowned and said the handle was absolutely in the wrong position and that she has "always" recommended the down position, and that it was "common sense".

The CPS tech then supported herself by saying that she and other CPS techs she works with called the manufacturers, and that was their recommendation, as well as the current recommendation of the NHTSA for car seats with 5 handle positions.

The CPS tech sure sounded she did her research, but I would love the opinions of fellow BBB posters, and the CPS techs on the BBB. I remember reading a post a while back where someone was horrified to see someone else driving around with the car handle up. I don't want to be that person, especially if it turns out to be the wrong thing to do! ;)

I know the thought on these things can change over time. For example, the question about putting the car seat in the middle of the back when there is a arm rest that flips down. I remember reading on the boards that now it is thought of as being okay to put the car seat there.

BTW, I checked the owners' manual and it didn't specifically say which position to leave it in when in the car. It only specified NOT to put it in the middle positions (2 of 3), but didn't say whether to put it in upright (position 1) or downward (position 4 or 5).

TIA for any input!!!


Jen
1st time Mom, EDD 6/10/04

[Joolsplus2]

I must say, you are quite on top of things...and so was your tech. Graco DOES allow all their seats to have the handle left up now. I'll try to find proof from the email list I'm on, where the head engineers say it's ok, and try to get you a link sometime this morning.
It does make "common sense" or is "best practice" as we say, to put the handles down, as other seats insist on it (they have weaker handles that could shatter on rebound and really hurt babies and other passengers), so it's good to keep a single, simple recommendation. However, it's also good to keep up on research and advancements and seat manuals, particularly, as they are the final authority :)

Lemme see if I can find that link and get back to you....

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[Joolsplus2]

I found it...that was quicker than I thought, lol... Oh, for what it's worth, I met Carol Helminski at the Lifesaver's conference this spring. She told a story of how she was demonstrating a snug ride installation, and a tech who was watching her got all riled up about how she left the handle up, and went to complain to another graco rep, and he said, "You don't know WHO she is, do you?"




All -
I am sharing the below e-mail with all of you to hopefully answer all of your
questions. Remember - CHANGE IS GOOD - that's why it is important to read
the car seat instruction books and another reason I am updating you with all the

exciting changes with Graco's accessory line and product line.
Buckle Up! Be Alert! - Carol Helminski - Graco Children's Products Div. of
Newell Rubbermaid - www.GracoBaby.com

Carol,
It is exciting to see all of the great response and insights we are getting
on the accessory line. Keep them coming, this is what helps us continually
improve our products.
Regarding Kathy’s questions and everybody else’s surrounding our position
on the Graco SnugRide handle:
Graco advises that either the up or down position can be used during travel.
We have conducted extensive crash testing to FMVSS 213 standards as well as
ISO side-impact testing with the handle in both the upright and down positions.
We have also carefully examined crash investigation reports involving the
SnugRide. Another interesting fact is that in Europe the handle, is required to

be in the upright position.
Personally, Steve, Ray and myself have our own children restrained in SnugRide
’s. Based off all the data that we have, we always have our children travel
in the SnugRide with the handle in the upright position.
Regarding the toys that attach to the handle, the same type of testing and
expertise was involved in the development of the line. They can be used on the
Graco SnugRide handle, in the upright position during travel. Again, the
products have only been crash tested for use with Graco products. With other
brands of car seats, the handle should be in the position recommended by the
restraint manufacturer.
Regards,
Gary Blanchette Steve Gerhart
Ray Rutkowski
Director – Product Management Sr. Compliance Engineer
Global Product Development Manager
Graco Children's Products Graco Children's Products
Graco Children's Products
Check out the world's best selling booster seat!

murphydog@h... writes:
> Hello. I noticed that some of Graco's new crash tested accessories
> include mobiles that can be hung from an infant seat handle. Does
> this mean that it's OK to leave the handle up on a Graco SnugRide
> while it's in the vehicle?




Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[mominjune]

Julie,

You're terrfic! I've read your posts on many other car seat topics and was hoping you'd respond to my question. That was the exact answer I was hoping for- actually even better than I hoped for with the direct links and emails!

I've learned so much about car seats in this forum. I've even got my Marathon (with the co-op a while back) all ready!

I may do the up position, hmmm... unless I get too many scowls, then I may have to go to the down position... But at least now I know, and have suporting evidence!

Thanks again!!

[murphydog77]

Hi Jen. As Julie mentioned and posted the email from Graco, it is OK to leave the handle up on the SnugRide. I still prefer to see it down myself. I've viewed European crash tests where the handles were left up on the infant seat and the child's head invariably comes into contact with the handle on rebound. I can't read German, so I don't know how big the dummy was, but I'm guessing about 9 month size--not newborn. And I don't know how much force that dummy hit the handle with.

So, at checkup events, I always tell parents with SnugRides that they can leave the handle up, but I also tell them why I prefer to put it down. You've obviously done your research, so go with your gut :).

Heather, CPS Tech
http://www.carseatsite.com

[Joolsplus2]

Oh, I'm glad I could help :)

And good luck with everything else...soon you're going to think car seats were the EASY part, lol.

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[HallsofVA]

FWIW, my Graco manual says upright or down, but not in-between. It specifically points out which of the 5 positions the handle can be in, and which one are not recommended.

[mominjune]

It's great to have lots of different input, epecially from people who are on top of it. I think you have a really good point, it does seem intuitive that they could hit the handle in a crash, especially older or larger babies. Another good reason to make sure they are buckled in snugly. I think your thoughts are very helpful not only to me but to lots of other new parents who may be reading this. Things to think about!

Thanks Heather!