Cosco Scenaro

[jastinker]

Ok I got the Cosco Scenaro at walmart for $49.99. What is with the lap bar? I haven't taken it out of the box yet because I am afriad I will have to return it and don't want grief fro the Walmart return police. Is it still 5-point restrain without the bar or is that what makes it a 5-point restraint. I went on Targets website and thier version of the Scenaro doesn't have this bar the other Cosco (touareg, I thnik), i t the one with the bar. The clock is ticking and we leave at 5:00 am to go to the airport, Help!!

Thank you,
Lisa

[jenny76]

They make two types of Sceneras, those with and without overhead shields. Sounds like you have one with the shield, which, I don't think, is a 5 point restraint. I also believe that they are very highly discouraged, as they do not provide the best protection.

Found this link in another thread titled, "Are overhead shields bad?..."
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/fivepointshield.aspx

[o_mom]

Ack! you got the overhead shield model - those are bad - go back and exchange for the 5-pt harness:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4083774&cat=91368&type=1&dept=5427&path=0%3A5427%3A91365%3A91368


For more on overhead shields:

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/fivepointshield.aspx

[kcgirl]

Definitely exchange it for the 5 point one -- it also should be $10 cheaper for this BETTER one!

[Joolsplus2]

Definitely bad bad bad... darn, you're at the airport already.. what a drag. :(
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[oneontheway]

I did the same thing last weekend (well, actually DH did). DH returned it to Walmart and I bought the 5 pt at Target for $39! DS loves it... I think more than his MA. Isn't that weird! Good luck :)

[Joolsplus2]

"But, Honey! It's more expensive, doesn't that mean it's BETTER?"

LOL!

Anyway, glad your ds loves his seat :)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[oneontheway]

Which reminds me, I wanted to ask you about the tether. My DH tethered the Scenaro (rear facing) like our MA. It looks good but I don't think the Scenaro is made to do this. Is the Scenaro safer tethered or not tethered (rear facing)?

Thanks!

[o_mom]

Sorry, only Britax allows rear-facing tethers. The Scenara has not been tested that way at all - you need to untether right away.

[Joolsplus2]

Yup, untether it. Some of these seats are actually tested top tethered, and they increase the neck loads of the dummies tested in them considerably. I know it seems like it's very wobbly, but ALL rearfacing seats are VERY safe, as long as they are 'tight at the belt path'... we don't want your baby to be the first one to find out what these strongly increased neck loads might really entail, if you're in a crash with that seat top tethered....

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[inmypjs]

I am so glad someone mentioned using the tether with rear facing! I was just going to search on that, because I installed mine today and I tethered it because:

1. The seat is really shaky and moves several inches in all directions without the tether. The belt is as tight as it can be. I even had my father tighten it too. I read in the manual that one inch of movement is ok, but this is definitely more than that.

2. The level line on the side of the seat is not level without the tether. It's at about a 30 degree angle, and the seat is very upright. The seat is in the fully reclined position. The back seat just slopes down quite a bit, and the tether is the only thing that seemed to make it level.

Julie, or anyone else, do you have any advice? I definitely won't keep it tethered if that is unsafe, but how do I get a more solid installation?

Also, this is probably a dumb question, but what does it mean to increase the neck load?

[Joolsplus2]

This page has great pictures that illustrate better what your seat manual says when it use a rolled towel to get a better recline http://home.earthlink.net/~carseatsite/reclineangle.htm

And still, the ONLY place you want the seat not to move is where the seatbelt goes through it, I promise, the rest of it can wiggle all over, it IS very, very safe.

There are sensors all over those little test dummies, and they measure various forces...neck load just being the intense pressure the neck takes during a crash, really... too high of a neck load measurement really means "increased risk of neck injury"...it's not saying, Baby's neck will break! but rather, Baby is much more likely to suffer severe neck injury of some sort, we aren't sure what, but it's not good!

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[inmypjs]

Thanks, those pics are very helpful! I'm going to reinstall tomorrow and use a towel to make it level. I will definitely remove the tether. I don't even want to think about a neck injury...

[oneontheway]

I can't thank you enough for all the good information!! I told my DH to untether it asap.

[KentuckyRK]

Hey Julie!

I've got a question for you regarding the towel and propping the seat up to get the level bar to be level. In my car I don't use a towel at all, I just angel the seat against the back seat of the car as it shows on the side of the seat itself and the when I tighten the belt it doesn't budge at all.

Do you have to use a towel since the seat is snug or is that just a suggestion?

~Rachel

[Joolsplus2]

Nope, fortunately you don't always need a towel (imagine that, when a seat actually fits in a car with no extra gear or work... kind of a miracle!)... if you're happy with the install and the recline, that's all that matters :)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[tjham]

Why would it be safe to tether a Britax RF and not safe to tether other brands RF?

[DebbieJ]

Because the Britax seats have been crash tested with the RF tether while the others have not.

~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
BFARed for 20 months and 6 days

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[Joolsplus2]

Yep, that's pretty much it... here's a blurb from www.carseat.org under 'technical' and 'top tether, rearfacing'

Top Tether, rear-facing

Only a few CRs in the U.S. have tethers for rear-facing use, but these are common in some other countries. Australia has tethered the top of infant restraints to an anchor positioned behind the vehicle seat for many years, and the most popular rear-facing "capsule" will not work properly if it is not tethered. Australians have also generally kept infants rear-facing until only about 6 months, when they start to use a forward-facing and virtually-always tethered restraint. Tethering a rear-facing CR toward the rear of the vehicle, which describes the Australian method, limits the downward rotation of the restraint and child during a frontal crash but does nothing to affect initial stability, rebound, or rear-impact.

Sweden has always used rear-facing restraints for children up to 4 years old, when they are moved directly into boosters with lap-shoulder belts. These large rear-facing restraints, which are set several inches away from the vehicle seatback to provide leg room, must rest against a vehicle structure, such as the instrument panel (unless there is an air bag) or the back of the front seat to keep them from falling over. Since the CR and its occupant can be tall and heavy, the Swedes have also tethered the backs down to the floor to eliminate rearward rotation during rebound or rear impact. The Swedes also have some small infant-only restraints that are not tied to the floor but do use the shoulder portion of the lap-shoulder belt to wrap around the "front" (the child's back) of the restraint to limit rotation during a crash. This installation method is used throughout Europe for frontal crash protection, but there is little effect on rebound or rear-impact motion.

The first U.S. infant restraint, which is the model for subsequent ones, did not use a tether in either direction nor a shoulder belt, but it worked very well. During development, the engineers observed that it turned over toward the vehicle seatback after a crash test and, largely in order to justify what happened anyway, they called this the "cocoon effect." There was also some justifiable concern that the small infant's neck might be injured on rebound or rear-impact unless the restraint were allowed to freely rotate in this direction. Justified or not, this concept has remained and seems to make intuitive sense. The counter-argument that the infant's head will "slam" into the seatback and be injured on rebound has not been validated in over 30 years of crash experience.

Britax, which has operations in Australia, Sweden, UK, and Germany, as well as in the U.S., devised a means to tie a traditional U.S. rear-facing convertible down to the base of the front seat structure to give it a firm installation and help the parent achieve something close to a 45° back angle, or more upright as appropriate. This tether does achieve a very secure installation, which is reassuring for parents, but it does little, if anything, to improve protection in a frontal crash. Downward rotation will likely be limited more by the back of the front seat (see Rear-facing CR resting against front seat) than by any cushion compression achieved with a tight downward tether. Another concern is that parents may use the tether to make the CR too reclined. Finally, tests conducted by a competitor a few years ago showed that dummy neck loads increased significantly when the restraint was tethered to the floor in both frontal and rear impacts. This would be more of a concern with the youngest infants than with children over 9 months to a year, but the competitor decided not to offer rear-facing tethers.

The restraint models on which the rear-facing tether is offered, however, can accommodate a child up to 33 lb rear facing, and for this usage the limit on rebound or rear-impact motion may be beneficial. Although crash experience indicates that rebound of infant-only restraints in frontal impacts does not cause serious injury, similar movement of a rear-facing restraint can also occur during a severe rear impact or offset rear impact, which can result in serious injury or death if the infant's head hits the rear door pillar of a sedan, the rear window of a pickup, or some other hard surface. As larger and heavier infants are carried rear-facing, the chance of an infant's head hitting a hard part of the vehicle is greater. Tethering a rear-facing convertible CR to the floor can reduce the risk of head and facial injuries in rear and side crashes by reducing head excursion.

Britax also acknowledges that one can route the tether rearward (Australian method) to the normal top tether anchorage, but this configuration has been given second priority. Of the two methods, this one is likely to have the most benefit in a frontal crash if there is rotation room in front of the child restraint. In practice, however, convertible restraints barely fit into back seats anyway, so the rearward tether may have limited use, except in vans.

(my note: Australian seats have anti-rebound bars built in to them...their RF seats are SOLIDLY installed from several directions which is why Aust. tethering is really so useless in US seats)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[tjham]

Wow, that is really interesting, especially this:


"The first U.S. infant restraint, which is the model for subsequent ones, did not use a tether in either direction nor a shoulder belt, but it worked very well. During development, the engineers observed that it turned over toward the vehicle seatback after a crash test and, largely in order to justify what happened anyway, they called this the "cocoon effect." There was also some justifiable concern that the small infant's neck might be injured on rebound or rear-impact unless the restraint were allowed to freely rotate in this direction. Justified or not, this concept has remained and seems to make intuitive sense. The counter-argument that the infant's head will "slam" into the seatback and be injured on rebound has not been validated in over 30 years of crash experience."


I guess I don't feel so bad that my daughter does not plan to tether her RF RA.

I think this topic (RF tethers and Julie's info) deserves it's own thread title so people looking for it can find it. I just stumbled in looking for other info! :)

[Joolsplus2]

Sooooo...why does she 'not plan to tether' her RF RA?

Thanks for bumping this...you are going to HAVE to take the tech class, you know!!! We NEEEEEED you on our team!

;)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx