Clueless about tethering and some questions

[LittlePrince_Mom]

I still don't quite understand tethering. We have a Britax Wizard installed FF in the middle of the back seat for my tall 2yo. Do I have to tether it? How does it affect safety? Where do I tether it to? I live outside of the US and we don't have CPS techs here or any professionals to help inspect car seats. My country also hasn't officially implemented LATCH either, although since I have purchased my seat in the US and my car is LATCH equipped I have installed the seat using the LATCH anchors. I have a 2000 Skoda Octavia. Does anyone have any idea whether it is ok to install using LATCH in the middle seat and also whether there are tether anchors in this car and where.
Thanks a bunch
-E
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[Joolsplus2]

European cars and seats don't utilize top tethering, and I doubt your car has top tether anchors (it would be pretty obvious if it did, honestly). I also would not use the LATCH in any position, UNLESS it is OBVIOUS that it is a designated LATCH position (the manual should have pictures of a carseat installed there, if it is). Also, given the lack of top tethers, I would use a lap/shoulderbelt if available. Britax follows the lead of many EU seats, and utilizes a shoulderbelt lockoff on the seat, to almost simulate a top tether effect...here's a link on top tethers: http://www.carseat.org/Technical/tech_update.htm#toptether

Anyway, fortunately the Wizard never *requires* a top tether, it just performs a bit better with it.

Bummer, we don't have that kind of car in our LATCH manual...I'm just curious, what kind of seatbelts does it have?

:)

Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[uccomama]

It doesn't look like your car has a top anchor tether only the LATCH anchors.

http://www.britax.co.uk/isofix/isofix_vcg_2a.htm

Did you check with the car's manual? I would contact Skoda and ask if you can get one installed.

Here is more on the European ISOFIX (aka LATCH) system from the UK AA

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/child_safety/safety_standards.html


The future of car seat regulations
Car manufacturers have to design cars to meet many different safety standards and regulations to protect adult occupants but none to protect children.
The car-seat cushions, seatbelt design and anchorage locations are all optimised for the comfort and protection of adults, and yet all of these systems are also used to attach child restraints.
This means that compatibility problems are common. No 'universal' child restraint can be installed satisfactorily in all seating positions in all cars.
Misfitting of universal seats is also common largely due to the complexity of fitting seats into cars using the adult belts. AA surveys typically show 70% to 80% of child seats misfitted with around 30% being seriously misfitted.
Way back in 1990 a standard system for attaching child restraints into cars was first proposed. Known as ISOFIX, the goals were to:
Provide a standard, universal means of attaching child restraints
Eliminate misfitting seen with current designs
Improve dynamic performance of child restraints
Ensure more consistent dynamic performance
The idea was simple. Car manufacturers would be required to provide small, cheap and inconspicuous attachment points in standard locations in all new cars. An ISOFIX child restraint would have latches on the back to lock onto the mounting points in the car with a simple push.
Early ISOFIX prototypes actually required four mounting points, two at the back and two at the front of the child restraint but there was some, justified, concern that these were too heavy and cumbersome to fit, particularly in smaller cars.
A compromise between car manufacturers and a European standards workgroup allowed the manufacturers to push ahead with a two-point anchorage system, with a view to introducing a third point, a top tether or lower anchor, at a later date (this has been referred to as the 'two stage process').
Two-point ISOFIX attachment points are now available as standard or as an option in many new car models.
With only the two rear anchorage points the child seat rests on the car-seat cushion and relies upon it to control forward rotation in a crash. It's a bit like having a stool with only two legs – it'll stand up but only if it's close enough to a wall.
The car seat cushion (height, angle, stiffness) is not standardised which means that seats using two-point ISOFIX have to be tested and approved for use in specific car models (the seat is tested in the specific car rather than on a universal test sled).
Two-point mounting has introduced a new potential misuse - whilst seats can only be approved for specific models they can and will be used in other models with the same two-point anchorages.
Standards for a universal, three-point ISOFIX must be agreed as soon as possible to overcome this current and confusing situation.
For the third anchorage we favour the top tether – a strap and buckle attached between the top of the child restraint and a fixing point provided in the top of the car seat or parcel shelf.
Support legs (between the front of the child restraint and the floor of the car) have been proposed but these would have to be fairly complex adjustable systems to accommodate the wide range of car designs in the market. We believe that misuse of support legs is more likely than with a tether strap.
The use of top tether straps is not new. In the USA they've been required on all forward-facing seats since 1999 (the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Uniform Child Restraint Anchorage – UCRA). Canada has been using top tethers for 15 years and Australia for 25 years.
Failure to agree Universal ISOFIX standards is holding back and no doubt frustrating the child seat industry. Britax has just introduced the Duo ISOFIX seat which to its great credit has been tested and approved for use in more than 80 car models but this has been a huge and expensive test and approval programme. With Universal ISOFIX standards only one test would be required.

Not sure this answered your question but I thought it was interesting!

Deborah

[Joolsplus2]

Wow, good stuff, that! Cool!

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[LittlePrince_Mom]

Thanks Deborah and Julie for the great info! That was really interesting.
Unfortunately I don't live in Europe either. Since LATCH isn't used here, the car manual doesn't show installation with LATCH/Isofix. I've tried calling the car company but was met with confused ignorance. I was so surprised to know that NO ONE at Volswagon or Skoda here know anything about it. I called tech people, sales people, mechanics, believe me I did a huge round of phone calls, no one had ever heard of LATCH/Isofix even though the cars sold here have it. I just stuck my fingers in btw the seat and back and found the anchors. I'm not sure if the middle seat is meant for carseat installation or not, the LATCH anchors seem like they're in the right position for it but I have no way to check for sure. So what are you saying Julie that if it's not tethered it's better to install using the seat belt???? I have only a lap belt in the middle and Shoulder/lap belts in outboard positions. What do you think?
-E
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[Joolsplus2]

"the proper distance" for latch is 280mm from center of one anchor to center of the center of the other, and if there are only 4 anchors, they are probably not meant to be used in the center, but just outboard.

It's a really tough call, whether to do it outboard with the lap/shoulderbelt or center with only a lapbelt (LATCH...I'm just not sure I'd feel comfortable, since LATCH is designed for 48 pound kids, and seatbelts are designed to hold much heavier adults, I just feel like they are more assured of holding in a crash, especially if there's nothing in the manual about LATCH at all, you know?)... I'm not exactly sure of how much head excursion you'd be cutting down by using the shoulderbelt, versus the increased danger from being nearer the window (of course, in a wizard, it's not such a big deal!)...it's just kind of one of those "I wish we knew" questions to ponder, and do what feels right to you as the mom :)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[uccomama]

I definitely wouldn't use the LATCH without a top tether. Although Britax has extensively tested the European ISOFIX which has a rigid LATCH, I doubt they have done the same amount of testing on European cars with a LATCH install without the tether with the Wizard.

Between outboard with a lap/shoulder belt or the center with a lapbelt only, tough call. All I can say is go with your gut. Not much help I am afraid.

Deborah

[LittlePrince_Mom]

Eeeek. You mean there's a difference between ISOFIX and LATCH? I thought it was the same thing with a different name. I have a European made car and an American bought Britax, are they compatible?
-E
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[Joolsplus2]

No, it's ok Isofix and LATCH are the same system, but the Britaxes in EU themselves have a rigid system (solid metal bars/clips coming out of the seat), and the Wizard is just straps. So they probably perform differently without a top tether (straps stretch a lot more than metal bars, for one thing....).

I'd really go with the seatbelt......it's just the 'outboard with the shoulderbelt or center with a lapbelt' should be the two options you are considering most (and a Wizard works with any seatbelt except those funky motorized ones in some front seats :) )

Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[LittlePrince_Mom]

Thanks so much for all your expert info. I feel awful, I really thought I had made sure DS was as safe as possible. I"ll reinstall the seat with the belt. Thanks.

-E
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