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View Full Version : How does Husky/Regent really perform in crash tests with heavy kids? Minimal safety standards at higher weights!



Elizasmom
12-07-2005, 11:04 AM
I have been debating/obsessing about a 5-point Husky/Regent vs. Parkway booster for a while now (5.5 yr old DD has outgrown her Wizard). I thought I had decided on the Husky, but then I read this on another site:
“There are actually no bio-mechanical requirements or performance standards in FMVSS213 for a child restraint with a 65 lb child. All that is required is the restraint remain intact and the test dummy stay restrained.�

If the standards for a child of this weight are so minimal, with no excursions requirements at all, how do I know that the Husky will perform well? I hear Britax does extensive testing, but I don’t see details of the results divulged anywhere. Does anyone know how the Husky performs? Will Britax share this information? At least with a booster, I know the seatbelts can handle the weight of my child and that boosters are widely used and safe. The Husky is less commonly used, and so there is less real-world info out there on how they perform. Perhaps the tremendous forces involved in restraining a 50, 60, or even 80 pound child in a 5-point harness would result in poor performance and a lot of head excursion that would defeat the purpose. 5-point harnesses for lighter children clearly do really well, but they are subject to stricter requirements, and they are not restraining such heavy children. If it were easy to build seats that could work up to 80 pounds, there would be more of them. This is clearly a big challenge for manufacturers.

The Husky was originally designed for special needs kids who really could not safely use a booster. Clearly, those kids are safer in a 5-point. For a child with no special needs who is ready for a booster (age, height, weight and maturity), I really feel the added benefits of putting them in a Husky need to be confirmed. I'm talking about kids who have outgrown the Wizard and are well into the age/weight range for a booster (not 40 pound 3 or 4 year olds). Sometimes I feel I go to unusual measures to keep my kids safe and it ends up backfiring on me!

Believe it or not, despite all my cynical comments, I am leaning toward getting the Husky, but I'm really worried about being wrong. Please convince me!

Elizasmom
12-07-2005, 01:01 PM
OMG I just stumbled across the mother of all car seat data. I am sure others here have seen this, but I never had. It’s all the crash test data for every seat! Scroll down to pages 11-20: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/comply/fmvss213/213_2004.PDF

This really has me wondering about the Husky. Why is it that head excursion is HIGHER in the Husky than in, say, the Turbobooster (375 vs. 495), and chest g’s and knee excursion is also higher in the Husky (6-year-old dummies)? The Turbo seems to perform differently depending on the model (I’m looking at the one on line 276 compared to the Husky on line 299). What does “HIC (1000 max)� mean? Am I reading this wrong, or do some of these boosters seem safer than the Husky (assuming child uses them properly)?

uccomama
12-07-2005, 01:28 PM
The NHTSA compliance testing is for frontal crashes at 30 mph only. This really isn't real world data.

Here's some more reading for you:

http://kpho.static.worldnow.com/images/incoming/safetyseat.pdf

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9916868

Deborah

Scatterbunny
12-07-2005, 01:49 PM
While I can't answer all your questions, I do know that head excursion numbers are sometimes higher in a harnessed seat because the measurements are taken from a fixed point BEHIND the vehicle seat/test bench. A harnessed seat is generally thicker than a booster seat, so the child's head STARTS OUT farther forward from that fixed point, and head excursion numbers are higher.

Numbers can often be confusing, but these tests are only frontal, 30 mph tests. How many real-world crashes does that apply to? Side impacts are the most deadly type of crash, and five points do a much, much better job of protecting a person in a side impact crash.

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosipriori.mpg (European crash test video of the Maxi Cosi Priori, a FF-only harnessed seat, which was sold in the US at one time)

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosirodi.mpg (European crash test video of the Maxi Cosi Rodi, which is similar to the US Turbo Booster)

The decision is definitely a tough one, with good arguments for either side, but ultimately I wholeheartedly believe a harnessed seat is safer than a lap+shoulderbelt+booster, generally speaking.

Elizasmom
12-07-2005, 02:04 PM
I just found 05 results @ http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/comply/fmvss213/213_2005.PDF

Why nothing on the Parkway I wonder?

o_mom
12-07-2005, 02:05 PM
Remember also, that in a crash test, the dummy sits perfectly in the seat. Think about a 5-6 yo child - which seat will they sit properly in? I would think that a harnessed seat has a much higher probability of proper positioning, and therefore better real-world crash protection.

Heck, I don't even sit properly in my seatbelt as a passenger half the time! You reach to get things, you turn to look at the kids, etc.

Joolsplus2
12-07-2005, 03:31 PM
I've just been reading my lovely bedside copy of that study (geek alert!)... and 30 mph is a VERY high speed, relatively rare crash. Doesn't seem so, does it? But there is almost always a huge amount of braking that goes on before a crash event, even on a freeway with 70mph speed limits. Most of the crashes in that study seemed to be below about 20 mph (and this corresponds with a refresher course I took with a GM engineer teaching, she told us crashes of 40 mph, which we were watching and gasping at, were really very rare, and often completely unsurvivable... the corresponding forces on our fragile bodies were so extreme at that point that humans couldn't take them, no matter what restraint type we had).

Anyway, no, crash tests don't reflect the real world terribly well, but at least we know the speeds they are done at are really quite extreme...and as o_mom notes, being *in position* is VERY important for proper restraint... Oh boy, am *I* out of position a lot, lol.. my kids are way better off in their Huskies than they are in their Parkways, without ME having to turn around to remind them to sit still.

But I'm *still* looking for proof that Britax tests with higher weight dummies. It's hard, since up till this year, NHTSA has only had jurisdiction of seat performance up to 50 pounds (and only a 47 pound dummy to accomplish THAT!)....and then the structural integrity test for seats up to 65 (is that what the site says? something like that)...The TREAD act will get everything up to a higher testing weight standard, this year, I believe (a weighted 6 yo dummy while we wait for a 10 yo dummy), and we'll know a lot more of this stuff in the coming years...but for now? We don't have much...
Oh, no Parkway on the 2005 NHTSA page because they tend to take seats that have already been out awhile... those failing coscos? They were 2003 models! And they never even bothered to test the Nania Airway, which was out for a couple years...so they do a lot of picking and choosing, unfortunately, I don't know what their standards are....
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

SusanMae
12-07-2005, 07:17 PM
I also think about this race car drivers who drive at 150+ mph wear a 5 point harness. Granted their wrecks are more severe, but those harnesses keep them safe.

Susan

Joolsplus2
12-08-2005, 09:12 AM
Volvo has 4-pt (no crotch strap... I think those don't go over well with the skirt wearing crowd, lol) belts on their Safety Concept Car...they are just as easy to buckle as a 3-pt lap/shoulderbelt, and are MUCH more protective in side impact and rollovers...now, if only they'd get those to the wider market!

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx