Another good study on rearfacing as long as possible

[Joolsplus2]

http://kpho.static.worldnow.com/images/incoming/safetyseat.pdf

Page 5 is quite compelling...it really shows that every step UP in car seats is a step DOWN in safety. So if you all ever feel like I'm harping on RF being so important or not putting kids in boosters till at least age 5+, well, at least I have more proof now :D

Of course, this study only shows rearfacing and booster seats, not forward harnessed seats...but taken together with this study from Australia, which finds top tethering to be a huge safety advantage in harnessed FF seats, I think we can put together a pretty good 'best practice' scenario for all our precious kiddos http://www.aaa.asn.au/issinfo/crs_effectiveness_13pg.pdf

1. Rearface to the limits of a good convertible seat (at least 30 pounds, depending on the seat, and top of head roughly even with the top of the seat shell... should be age 2-3 for most kids)

2. Harness to the limits of a forward facing seat (40-80 pounds, depending on the seat, shoulders not above the top slots, ideally seats with short slots (14-15 inches) should be replaced with taller seat (17-20 inches) for kids younger than 5).

3. A good highback booster (why highback? They reduce head injury by 70% in side impact crashes compared to no-back boosters http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-09/chop-htb090905.php) until the child is too tall or heavy (57-60 inches, 80-100 pounds, depending on the seat, usually at least age 10-12 before a child fits properly in an adult seatbelt, depending on the car and the child).

4. Sitting in back till at least age 13, preferably older, because airbags are hazardous to kids throughout the early teens http://www.yourlawyer.com/practice/news.htm?story_id=9972&topic=Airbag%20Injuries (this link hasn't been working, I'll try to find one that does... airbags are dangerous to kids up to age 15..yikes!)

I know this is sure different from how 'we' grew up, but we know a LOT more now. Death rates have declined considerably in the past thirty years, despite kids being in cars a lot more. But wouldn't it be nice if NO kids died? Of course that's not possible (like when an airplane skids off the runway into your car), but we can sure try.

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[bride805]

Thanks for the great articles. I wish things like this would be handed out at all daycares and schools. Some of the things I've seen make my hair turn gray. (A grandmother attempted to put her 3 yo granddaughter in the front seat of her open convertable WITH NO TYPE OF CHILD SEAT AT ALL!)

However, I wish I could get it through my head that CRS does not always mean Can't Remember S**T!

[uccomama]

Great post Julie!

Deborah

[Joolsplus2]

Just bumping this up because I needed a link ;)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[cpstechmom]

Thanks Jools! Mind if I use this on my cps board?

Janice M. Certified car seat technician and Mom to Cias-born 4/13/02 and forever rear-facing in his Britax Marathon.

[Joolsplus2]

I'd be honored :)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[Joolsplus2]

I was looking for a link I knew was here, and I couldn't resist a shameless <bump> since I was here anyway ;)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[Joolsplus2]

I was looking for a link here, so just bumped it up for fun.

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[mlincoln]

Thanks for bumping this up....every so often I need to explain to DH the importance of car sears, correct installation and why we need to lug three seats with us on vacation. This is very helpful.

Thanks for all of the helpful information!

Meredith

[HannaAddict]

Thanks again for the great info. My little (big) guy just hit the max RF weight limit for his RA and MA and we sadly turned him FF, but tethered. He was perfectly happy RFing too, I wish we could have kept him RFing longer. He is two years old tomorrow.

Kimberly

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

I loved all the info.

My kids are sitting in the backseat till they learn to drive (sorry kids) unless there is no other option... but I have a van... so there better never be no other option.

[MeAndMyStar]

I was looking for specific data on rearfacing and came across this post. I'm bumping it up for those of us who missed it! :) Great links...thanks Julie!

-Sarah

[Joolsplus2]

Oh wow, I've been looking for that first study, I wish it weren't a .pdf, but it's interesting about 'graduating' kids to the next seat up too soon being a very bad idea.

I think the yourlawyer.com link is dead...it said kids are at risk from airbags all the way up to age 15.
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[supercalifragilous]

Julie,

This is all such GREAT info! I have forwarded it to every mom & aunt I know!

Is there a way you can get this pinned to the boards or at least add it to the pinned post on Car Seat Safety 101??

[supercalifragilous]

HELP! Julie, the first link, kpho.static.worldnow.... doesn't work - my browser says "page not found". Also, the #4 link doesn't work either (www.yourlawyer.com....)

Do you happen to have these saved on your computer so you can use it as a post? Or have they been moved? Can you e-mail them to me?

[Joolsplus2]

Hmmmm... my kpho link works...it's a .pdf, do you have the newest adobe reader? That's all I can think of (i'm not very tech savvy, lol).

And the yourlawyer one is gone.. I could cry... I have to find that study published somewhere else that's free to read (shows how airbags are actually still dangerous to kids up to age 15...I'm going to the Lifesavers conference next week, maybe there'll be more proof/support there and I can link to it).
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[maestramommy]

I'm just wondering, are there any other FF seats along the lines of the Regent but less (eek!)pricey? We're thinking of eventually moving dd1 to the MA and giving the RA to dd2, but what about after that? Should we assume that by the time she's too heavy to be RF or tall to be FF in the MA she's okay for a high backed booster? I guess it depends on size as well as age, but even though she's rather a munchkin I'd be surprised if she made it to age 5, or even 4 FF in a MA.

[Joolsplus2]

Oh, she'll make it to at least age 5, just let her keep her seat and get the baby a new one :) (*huge* boys outgrow it by age four, other kids easily make it to 5 or 6, it's based on the measurements for the nintieth percentile six year old :) )

Yeah, at that point she'll be ready for a booster, or more studies will come out proving that harnessing is safest and you'll look for something bigger to harness her in... who knows what will be out in a couple years?
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[maestramommy]

You mean let her keep the MA? See, the plan was, when dd2 outgrows the infant seat, SHE'LL go into the RA, and we'll get DD1 an MA unless she's too heavy (right). I'm looking at her and the top of her head is about 2 inches from the top, although her shoulders are still in the lowest setting. It seems to depend on how's she's sitting that day, her clothes, so random. DD1 SEEMS to be longer in the torso; don't know if that's my genes or just early toddler proportions y'know? She's rather low on the charts (20th percentile) but equal for height and weight, so I don't have a tall stringbean OR short chunkster. I'm just projecting that at some point she will be too tall for the RA well before hitting 33 lbs, like maybe 2.5yo or something.

[tg_canada]

>HELP! Julie, the first link, kpho.static.worldnow.... doesn't
>work - my browser says "page not found". Also, the #4 link
>doesn't work either (www.yourlawyer.com....)
>
>Do you happen to have these saved on your computer so you can
>use it as a post? Or have they been moved? Can you e-mail them
>to me?

If you right click on the first link and use the "save link as" or "save page as" (or similar depending on your browser) it works. Left-clicking on it takes you to a page not found.

[Joolsplus2]

No, it's really only those enormous kids that outgrow the RA at 2.5, she'll get to at least 3.5-5 in it :) (sorry I guess i misread her being in an MA already...d'oh!)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[mommyto4]

Since you will need a new seat when the baby outgrows the infant seat, I would do as you planned. Put baby in the Roundabout and get a Marathon/Decathlon/or Boulevard or Radian 65 or Recaro Como/or Signo for your older DD.

The Recaro seats I mentioned are not out yet but should be by the time you need one. They harness to 70 pounds and are supposedly 1 1/2-2 inches taller than the Marathon. 19 inch top slot compared to 17 or 17 1/2 on the Marathon.

I hope that makes sense.

[supercalifragilous]

Thanks for sharing that info! I'm on a Mac so I don't have a "right" click - usually I do tabbed browsing to open it in a new window but that took me to the "page not found" just like you said.

How do we "right" click on a Mac? Anybody?

[maestramommy]

I dont' think I've heard of the Recaro! But I will keep an eye out as we get closer to the need, thanks!

[mommyto4]

I have heard that it is due to release in June or July. You can google Recaro Como for specs.Or go to http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=13057 the first post that comes up gives the info on the new recaro seats. http://www.proamauto.com/recaro_como_seat.htm has a pictures. It looks pretty nice to me.

[maestramommy]

Actually I was flipping through our latest copy of the One Step Ahead catalog, and they have a Recaro Young, which is the only seat I can find on the yet right now. But that's a booster, and only for FF. Is the Como usable RF? It also looks like their prices are comparable to Britax. But I'm hoping to read some product reviews on them by the time I need another seat.

[maestramommy]

Actually I was flipping through our latest copy of the One Step Ahead catalog, and they have a Recaro Young, which is the only seat I can find on the net right now. But that's a booster, and only for FF. Is the Como usable RF? It also looks like their prices are comparable to Britax. But I'm hoping to read some product reviews on them by the time I need another seat.

[Joolsplus2]

The Young Sport has been out a couple years, it's FF harnessed to 40 pounds then becomes a booster (some people love it, some people hate it, or you probably would have heard about it more, it does make a NICE booster for a combination seat). It might be a good choice for you if your dd's a lightweight (it has taller straps than the RA...). The Como and Signo will be convertible seats (RF to FF, but not a booster) :)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[maestramommy]

Ah, thanks Julie. I'll keep an eye out. Maybe the Fields will have something to say in another year or two about the Como and Signo. The Young just looks ginormous, and if DD is old enough not to need a harnessed seat I might just go with a Graco High back booster or something similar.

[Joolsplus2]

Just bumping because I needed the study for someone else. And nah, the Graco booster isn't that great (no SIP specifically designed into it yet)...and I have a Como...I'm switching it out for a Signo, though (dreamtimebaby sent me the wrong one... signo has a much better LATCH system ;) )
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/Leah.aspx

[jerigirl]

I could only get the link in #3 to work. All of the others said "page not found". The right click suggestion someone gave also didn't work for me. The error message said something about Internet Explorer couldn't download because the page is not found. I am using Adobe Reader 7.0. Can anyone help? I would like to read the articles.

jeri

[Joolsplus2]

Darn, it won't let me edit... Here's the first link http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/esv/esv19/05-0330-O.pdf


Lemme check the others and edit this post....
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/Leah.aspx

[alexsmommy]

>
>I know this is sure different from how 'we' grew up, but we
>know a LOT more now. Death rates have declined considerably
>in the past thirty years, despite kids being in cars a lot
>more. But wouldn't it be nice if NO kids died? Of course
>that's not possible (like when an airplane skids off the
>runway into your car), but we can sure try.
>
Whenever one of DH's family members makes some type of comment to this effect (Hey, our generation was fine w/o any carseats at all) I point out that the kids that WEREN'T ok aren't here to have kids. Morbid, but true.

Thanks for the info, validates my position on several friends "extra" booster that is not highback.




Alaina
Alex Feb '03
Zachary July '07