Booster seats and older children

[pcha72]

Just curious, how old would you let your child(ren) (or how old were they) until they stopped bieng in a booster seat? I think NHTSA recommends children should be in a safety seat until 8yo, but I know plenty of parents who don't have their 8yos in a booster seat. In fact, I think my first grader is the only one in her class who's still in a booster seat. However, I sometimes let DD go without a booster if she's going to the grocery store with Grandma (about 2 blocks). I would like to keep her in as long as possible, but was wondering what other parents did (or are doing)?

Thanks.
~P

[Scatterbunny]

With all do respect, how is your dd going to be protected if Grandma gets in a crash on the way to the store?

Are you aware that most crashes happen very close to home, at relatively low speeds?

Current recommendation is to keep kids in boosters until at least 4 feet 9 inches tall (57 inches).

They should also be able to pass the 5 step test: http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm

My own child will remain in a child restraint (either harnessed seat or booster; she's in a harness right now at 46 inches and 48 pounds) until I can't find one that accommodates her anymore, LOL. That will probably be AFTER she is 4'9.

Every step up in carseats and boosters is a step down in safety (from rear-facing to foward-facing, from harness to highback booster, from highback booster to backless booster, from backless booster to vehicle lap+shoulderbelt), and I figure, why downgrade my dd's safety before I absolutely have to?

[kellyotn]

I think around HERE, most parents plan to or do keep their kids in boosters until they pass the five steps and beyond. :) Or, they plan to keep their kids harnessed long after others move to boosters (or into plain seat belts).

For me, my 3.5 year old is currently in a Marathon and is outgrowing a Scenera by height (closely followed by weight). I'm looking at replacing the Scenera with a harnessed seat or moving the MA back and forth as I plan to keep her harnessed until she's 5.5 - 6. If she doesn't last in an MA for that long (or if I'm still not comfortable with boostering), I'll look into bigger seats. A bigger seat may or may not get her to seat belt age. If not, she'll be in a booster until she maxes it out (even past 8/80, which is now law in my state - yeah!).

I know the father of a young toddler who died in a car accident. He was in a seat appropriate to the laws and standards of the time, but by today's standards he could have been safer. Who knows if the outcome would be different, its hard to think about.... It shakes you and makes you wish to do everything possible. I can't control every thing on the road, but can control how my kid is put into the car, KWIM? :)

[Joolsplus2]

Check that link to the 5 step test... really, it's not about age or weight or even height, it's about HOW the seatbelts fit. They are designed for a 160 pound male dummy, NOT for a small child. Think of it like shoe size... would you make your child wear their father's shoes and expect them to stay on and work properly and comfortably? NO... And you can't expect the same from seatbelts, either.

It's a HUGE sea-change in the population's knowledge base, and it's taking a long time for people to understand that kids just aren't safe in seatbelts (well, they are safer than nothing, of course, but unless car makers start making seats and belts that fit kids, then people just have to start making boosters a part of every trip for kids up to age 8-12, when the seatbelt fits properly).

My 8.5 yo still doesn't fit in any cars without a booster, and in fact he's harnessed in his Britax Regent most of the time because it's even safer than a booster.

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[tg_canada]

My DD will be 9 right away and she's still in a booster. She's 52.5" tall and 64lbs right now, so I don't expect her to be out of the booster until at least 10 (and possibly later). She has been the only one in her class in a booster seat in grade 1, 2 and 3.

[tg_canada]

>Every step up in carseats and boosters is a step down in
>safety (from rear-facing to foward-facing, from harness to
>highback booster, from highback booster to backless booster,
>from backless booster to vehicle lap+shoulderbelt), and I
>figure, why downgrade my dd's safety before I absolutely have
>to?

This may not be accurate with regards to "from highback booster to backless booster".

From this web site http://www.carseatdata.org/hr.html If your child had sufficient head support, and doesn't need side sleeping support, the backless boosters may actually be a bit safer. They position the child right against the vehicle seat back instead of several inches forward. and from this web page http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0509/20/C01-320386.htm [blockquote]NHTSA is concerned that high-back boosters may introduce more possibility for injury than the backless kind. In its proposed rule for the 10-year-old crash dummy, the agency said as manufacturers start building seats to accommodate taller, heavier kids, it is "still concerned about the potential for excessively heavy high-back belt-positioning seats to cause loading on a child, crushing the chest between the booster seat back and the shoulder belt.[/blockquote>]

[Joolsplus2]

There's been new data since those studies.. Children are considerably safer in side impact crashes when in highback boosters

"The risk reduction provided by booster seats in side-impact crashes varied by booster seat type: 4-to 8-year-olds riding in high back booster seats were at a 70 percent reduction in injury risk, while those in backless boosters did not experience a statistically significant risk reduction as compared with seat belts alone".

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-09/chop-htb090905.php

The "excessivly heavy" highback booster they are referring to there, is the Recaro Start, which requires a top tether to prevent loading of the child in a crash...boosters are required to be 9 pounds or under to prevent this, the Recaro and Bodyguard are too heavy, so they have a means to hold the seatback (top tether or belt lockoffs). Cosco disregarded the rule: it's Summit is 14 pounds...and thue we find that the goverment doesn't actually enforce this rule, possibly because there's actually nothing dangerous about a heavy booster...kids in Germany have been required to be in boosters till age 12 or 4ft 11 for years, and there's probably been no injuries to them in those heavy Recaros (I'm guessing...it'd be nice to see a study).

:)

Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[tg_canada]

>There's been new data since those studies.. Children are
>considerably safer in side impact crashes when in highback
>boosters

Hmmm, I thought one of the links I provided said that highback were safer in side impact crashes? Maybe I didn't post that one, but yes I did read that as well. I thought that potential "safer" status of the no back booster was in NON-side collisions only, but I did not specify that, so thank you for clarifying. I would like to find data for frontal and rear collisions with regards to a no back booster. We've been rear ended 4 times and hit in our front end once...

[Joolsplus2]

As far as actual data that breaks down lbb versus hbb's, I don't think there is any for frontal crashes (yet...someone's always studying something!). The assertion that they are safer is from the way the tests are done: The forward head movement in a crash, starting from a fixed point behind the vehicle seat. If the head is all they way back against the vehicle seat, then it will fly forward less than if it is several inches forward in a combo booster, or an inch or two more forward as in a dedicated booster... so the head might fly forward 27 inches in a lbb and 29 inches in an hbb.

I think if I kept getting rearended (hopefully THAT never happens again, I think you've used up your lifetime supply, lol), I'd want a hbb with eps foam for the head to slam into (of course it's good for side impacts and the rebound portion of frontals, too).

Bottom line, all boosters are very, very safe in frontal crashes, and cars are, too, since so much effort has been put into making them safer that way. Now, everyone's getting to realize how deadly side impacts are, and there's more focus on those right now... side airbags will even be required in the next couple years in all new cars (and then everything will have to be studied again! I'm sure lbb's are great in a car with curtain airbags...)

:)

Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[kphil]

Mine will be in seats until they fit the seatbelts properly, which I expect will be well past 8 yrs for my smaller-than-average kids. My 6 year old dd just moved into a Regent, because I'd rather keep her harnessed than move her into a booster now.

Some family friends lost their 7 yo grandson in a car crash a couple years ago. The Fire and First Aid responders said a booster seat would have saved him :(. The family was really diligent about car seat safety, too--they had him in a booster until his 7th birthday, because they were following the 6yr/60pounds law. He was only a couple miles from his house.

Kirsten

[kusiakje]

You know, I've been wondering about this too...although I don't really have to worry about it for a long time. But, whenever I hear these limits, all I can think is "I was 14 before I was over 4'9" tall. God, I would have felt like an even bigger geek (Lord knows I always felt like a geek) to be going to high school still strapped to a darn booster seat!"

And after looking at the 5 step test, I was reminded of many, many crazy truck seat belts that have hit me in the detailed wrong ways. Do they make booster seats for the driver's seat? :)

--Jessica
Mom to Katarina (DOB 9/16/05)

[tg_canada]

Thanks for the info Julie!

>I think if I kept getting rearended (hopefully THAT never
>happens again, I think you've used up your lifetime supply,
>lol), I'd want a hbb with eps foam for the head to slam into
>(of course it's good for side impacts and the rebound portion
>of frontals, too).

I hear ya! Luckily DD has NEVER been with us any of the times we've been hit, yay! I think our problem is we always buy super winter tires that actually stop on all the ice and snow we get here, and most people around here are too cheap to do the same. Thus, in winter, we stop at a red light, and their crappy all season tires combined with the fact that people love to run red lights around here, make them end up into the back of our vehicle. :(

>Bottom line, all boosters are very, very safe in frontal
>crashes, and cars are, too, since so much effort has been put
>into making them safer that way. Now, everyone's getting to
>realize how deadly side impacts are, and there's more focus on
>those right now... side airbags will even be required in the
>next couple years in all new cars (and then everything will
>have to be studied again! I'm sure lbb's are great in a car
>with curtain airbags...)

DD just grew out of her highback for height and since she's basically 9, we picked up a low back for her. We have side curtain bags and have her sitting in the centre, but of course I keep thinking I should have bought a highback. Sadly it would only get short use (maybe a year?) and can't pass it onto our 2nd because it will be expired before our 2nd needs it. :( I'm still evaluation her in the lowback and deciding if I like it or not.

[catfeet]

Heck! Some seatbelts _STILL_ hit me in the neck! Depends on the age of the vehicle and if it has an adjustable up/down on the wall of the car.

Ann
5'3" with a tall torso...