My turn for an install question! Techs??

[daniele_ut]

Splash's post got me thinking that the RA in my car might not be installed safely right now, give the instruction in the Britax manual that the buckle should not be in the belt path. I have a really long buckle stalk and it falls right in the lockoff. Does this look ok, or should I move it back outboard, where this isn't a problem. I really prefer having him in the middle, but will put him where he's safest, obviously.





http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/33018.jpg


http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/33019.jpg

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

it needs to be below the lockoff, which is why I usually tell people 1" below the beltpath... that clears the lockoff.

how many times did you twist that female buckle?

was it 3 full 360* twists?

what car?

[daniele_ut]

Yup, it's twisted 3 full 360 degree turns. It is a 01 Subaru Outback Sport. The database has some entries saying people had problems with center installs because of the long buckle stalk, but I was hoping I could get a better install.

Thanks for the insight, I guess I need to move him back outboard. Thankfully they fixed the long buckle stalk in later years, but I would never recommend an 01 to anyone with kids!

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

no problem... at least you weren't the only one with the issue... so you know it was the vehicle.

Sometimes outboard is safer.

I don't know why they made that buckle SO long... I thought it looked like it was really twisted... cause it just gives such a hastle for carseat installation.

Kat

[mom2acrew]

I have to disagree, it does not NEED to be below the lockoff, if the seat is installed tightly (less than an inch movement) and the latch plate is locking the seat belt. Britax does not require you to use the lockoffs.

Subaru issued an official statement allowing a full 3 twists of the buckle stalk, it is on going issue for most people and car seats in the center but perfectly fine to twist it up to 3 times.

[daniele_ut]

Thanks for your insight on this Jodi. I knew I was ok on the twists. In the install pictured, the latch plate is definitely locking the seat belt and we had almost no side to side movement.

I re-installed the seat outboard yesterday when I picked it up from the dealer, but will happily reinstall it center if the buckle placement above is allowable.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this? I can tell you that this will be the last Subaru we own!

[Joolsplus2]

If it's staying tight, no need to worry. Sometimes it'll be tight when the buckle is in the lockoff, but only till you grab the seat and shake it side to side, then it gets loose super easy (because the latchplate is tilted)... but I agree with Jodi, if it's actually staying tight, keep it in the center, IMO.

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[daniele_ut]

Thanks again Julie (and Kat and Jodi)!! That is exactly what I needed to know!!

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

then why did britax show the pic with it being below the lockoff?

I would think it should be okay... but since the pictures show that they want it below, then there must be a reason.

In my own mind, I would think the real issue would have been if the buckle were in the beltpath, which it is not.

So I'm definitely open to hearing why this is safe and okay to go against the pic in the manual.

Kat

[mom2acrew]

My guess would be most vehicles have such short belt stalks that the majority of the time it will fall below the lockoff. A picture is just an example of what an install might look like not every vehicle will be the same. Seeing a picture is very different than doing a check in real life so the original poster may want to confirm it is a proper fit by having a CPST check the seat in person.


I am betting if you were to call Britax they would say it was no go because they can not verify it moves less than 1" (they need to cover ther butt). IMO if this vehicle and seat came into a check like this and moved less than 1" I would leave it. Yes outboard is safe but if you can do furthest from impact why not. Typically when a buckle or latchplate gets caught up in a belt path it prevents the latchplate from locking by holding it at the wrong angle, which is why we often hear it can not be in the belt path.

edited to hopefully clarify

[daniele_ut]

I have had my outboard install inspected by a CPS tech, but I didn't even have her try to install it center because I just didn't think it could be done well based on the database. I'm going to reinstall it center and visit her again this week.

[momika]

Jodi asked me to check with my contact at Britax so I did ... I know you prefer to have your DS in the middle position but based on that extremely long buckle stalk, there is a lack of compatibility in this seating position. Britax would recommend that you use one of the outboard positions, of which you indicated there is a good fit - no buckle path interference.

HTH

[daniele_ut]

Thank you for checking with Britax for me, Monika! That was really nice of you!! I've got an appointment Monday with the tech, but I'll leave the seat outboard.

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

I'm actually surprised to hear that I was right and that Jodi was wrong... I'll get over the shock in a couple days, though.

I just figured the techs would know better than me.

[mom2acrew]

Well I would rather be safe than sorry and Britax CS can be so inconsistant. Britax reps really need to be on the conservative side and to be honest on the internet we do too. Without being able to verify the seat does not move more than an inch ourselves we really shouldn't say an install looks good based on a pic.

That said if I could verify it A)did not move more than 1" and B) did not interfere with the latchplate locking I would consider it an acceptable install. There are instances when a buckle/latchplate will be in the belt path and it will still be an acceptable install.

I hope a tech can check this in real life.

[Joolsplus2]

<snicker> I'm on your side, we'll have to picket Britax together :D.

Remember of course, ANY seat in the rear in a properly installed seat is VERY safe :). This has been a great thread.

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[daniele_ut]

LOL, Julie - I can just see you out there picketing!

The tech at Primary Children's Medical Center in Salt Lake seemed *really* knowledgable last time I was there last fall. She showed me some good tricks to make RF installs easier and mentioned nothing about turning DS around when he turned a year. I'll have her help me do the center install and see if she thinks it is solid.

I know he's safe outboard, I just would like him to be as far from the point of impact as possible. I'll see what we can figure out on Monday.

You guys are really, REALLY helpful, so thanks again for hanging out here!

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

I would definitely like to see a reason for why it's not okay...

it does seem to me it should be safe... unless you wanted to use that lockoff.

But of course, I'm a manual girl.

perhaps we need to harrass someone higher on the pecking order at Britax?

[Joolsplus2]

We've already gone as high as we can go... unfortunately she's a stickler for rules and doesn't have power to re-test things or give us the proper engineering reason WHY (in the olden days, we knew the president of the company, and he would just test things on a whim for us... sigh... oh, and I mean the royal 'we', not me, but one or two of my closest pals).

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

ah.... wasn't sure who it was... if it was someone high up or just a csr.

I doubt they would retest it just for us, too