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View Full Version : Need links to reliable statistics/info on exened RF



mizzum
04-27-2006, 07:45 AM
Hi,

Someone asked about why they should do extended rf on another board I belong to, and another girl and I replied with the following link:

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx

Well another board memmber has also replied saying the stats quoted in the above link are wrong and laughable.She also says she contacted them about their math previously and they removed the stats she questioned.In fact here is her post:
POST:
"This is the 2nd time I've seen this question posted, and both times they listed this website link. The problem is the facts on the link don't add up. Just this paragraph alone:

"Rear-facing is much, much safer than forward-facing. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) says that rear-facing seats are 71% safer than nothing and FF seats are 54% safer than nothing. This means that a forward-facing child is nearly 60% more likely to die in a crash than a rear facing child. (That's the calculation of how much bigger the risk of death with a forward facing seat is than the risk of death in a rear facing seat [{100% - 54%} divided by {100% - 71%}]. "

has incorrect math. The number should be about 30%, not 60%. (proper way to figure would be to take 54*1.3 to equal 70.2.) Also, the NHTSA site that this references, doesn't say rear-facing and front-facing like the quote does. It lists rates for infants versus toddlers.

Personally when I read incorrect data, especially references that are mis-quoted, on the web, I wonder about the authenticity of the entire website. Before I would advocate this, I would like to see someone actually find ANOTHER source. BTW, the AAP site referenced has 1 sentence about this, and it includes the caveat that the child be short enough to still fit in the car seat at that weight. Nowhere on this website does it talk about height at all. And that's one of the biggest factors on keeping a child's head and neck safe.

Also this website used to have another quote about the g-forces that a child's body pulls when it goes into a crash. The math on that was laughable. I pointed it out, and I see its now gone. Yet another reason I would look for another source before just believing it, despite the video." END.

Does anybody have any other reliable sources I can point her in the direction of? Julie if you read this I am a member of the yahoo list but have forgotten my yahoo ID so I can't post a message asking any of the members of the group! I am sure there is a Paediatrician on that list who is the head of children's trauma at a hospital (St. Paul???) who has posted about the benefits of extended rf?

Thanks everyone.

Lynn

elliput
04-27-2006, 12:28 PM
>(That's the calculation of how much bigger the risk of death with a >forward facing seat is than the risk of death in a rear facing seat ><{100% - 54%} divided by {100% - 71%}>. "

I am not understanding the math of the poster who is questioning the math (does that make sense?).

100-54= 46
100-71= 29

46/29= 1.5862

Am I missing something?

Where is she getting these numbers "54*1.3 to equal 70.2." Specifically the 1.3 and 70.2?

The *numbers* don't need to be compeling for me, the video footage of heads snapping forward and limbs flailing are good enough to keep my DD rear-facing for a very long time. Even if the percentage is 30% and not 60%, it is still *more*.

jeanum
04-27-2006, 12:37 PM
I'm also puzzled about the focus on the math used in the quote above. But the laws of physics, crash dynamics, and crash test footage are compelling enough evidence for the benefits of keeping kids rear facing as long as possible. Sounds like the person quoted isn't going to be convinced regardless and is grasping IMO.

Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie
04-27-2006, 12:56 PM
I would state that the crash test footage should be enough, not to mention the laws of physics.

also, I'd refer them to this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9916868/

where it specifically says a child under 2 is more likely to die in a crash while ff.

kellyotn
04-27-2006, 01:02 PM
There's an oddity I've never understood in that article though. It all sounds good, except this -

"The study also found a small but not statistically significant benefit for facing rear in frontal crashes."

HUH?! Someone who's arguing math will grasp right on to that....

californiagirl
04-27-2006, 01:24 PM
"small but not statistically significant benefit" is a slightly odd way of phrasing
"small benefit that was not statisically significant" (i.e., looked nice, but turned out
not to mean anything). It's actually reassuring to me that the authors can tell the difference between "the numbers are bigger!" and "the numbers are bigger and it
probably wasn't random variation!".

Joolsplus2
04-27-2006, 02:03 PM
Maybe this will help?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9916868/

And email me, I can get you the list of links that the pediatric resident I know of made up :)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

mizzum
04-28-2006, 07:26 AM
Thanks everyone for your replies. I will pass on these links and comments!

Jules where can i find your email address? How is your new dd doing?

Lynn

Joolsplus2
04-28-2006, 07:34 AM
Yeah, it was very shocking for some folks when this study came out last year... It turns out that frontal crashes really are getting more survivable for all occupants, to the point that even younger kids are doing well in them. But it showed that side crashes are MUCH more dangerous and deadly, and that's where rearfacing really shines. The seat rotates somewhat in a bad crash, with the back rotating towards the impact, getting in between the baby and the crushing door/oncoming car, is the theory.
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

Joolsplus2
04-28-2006, 07:37 AM
Oh, you can email most folks (but not you, you have the feature disabled, lol) just by clicking on the user name :) but I'm [email protected] .

Ooh, Leah's a little sweetie pie, and 3 months old yesterday! Time for some new 'how I'm growing up in all my seats' pictures, lol!
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx