Safest harness seat for very tall just-turned 3 year old?

[safetynut]

My daughter turned three last week. She is already 40.5 inches tall, and 37 pounds.

We are planning to use her Britax Roundabout (convertible) for our new baby coming in December, so have been researching a new seat for her.

We want her to be as safe as possible. I've spent quite a bit of time doing research. I was disappointed that Consumer Reports rated so few seats.

This is what I'm looking for:
Best possible crash rating, especially for side impact
combined with...highest weight/height limit for 5-point harness

I read the post that listed seats that offer harnesses at higher weights. The Britax Regent seemed to offer the highest harness weight. Where can I see independent crash test reviews on this seat compared to others?

We are driving an '02 Toyota Camry. My other concern is, what is the safest way to have two car seats in the back? One on each side? Or is it safe to put one in the middle and another on the side, right next to it?

[Joolsplus2]

There really aren't publicly visible ratings of carseats except for NHTSA compliance ratings (google it if you wish, it's a huge table of gobbledy gook numbers, the Husky/Regent does very well), and consumer reports uses their own crash pulse (they didn't find the failure in some cosco seats that nhtsa found....so I have a hard time trusting them, anyway).
ANY 5 pt harness is going to do very well, at least better, than a booster seat when properly used. You should look at the Regent (definitely will last the longest with tall kiddos), Safeguardseat, Sunshine Kids Radian, or Britax Boulevard.
Yes, it's safe to put two seats side by side (safest to put a forward facing kid in the middle, rearfacing kid next to the door, as rearfacing is considerably safer in side impacts--so you want the most protected child in the least protected spot), but you probably can't with the Regent, it'll be too wide to install anything next to it. Your best chance of installing seats side by side would be the Radian, but it also is tricky to install in some cars and you need to try before you buy, or buy from Target so you can return it if it doesn't work.
Do a little research on the seats I mentioned and ask back with all the questions you need :)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

where are your top tether anchors?
you'll have to have one for the Regent once the child is 50lbs... and I prefer any ff seat be top tethered.

the Regent is definitely what I'd go with unless you can afford the Safeguard, because those two have the tallest top slots and will last the longest.

[Joolsplus2]

An 02 Camry has three top tether anchors...and 2 outboard sets of LATCH anchors if it was made after 9/1/02.

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[Kat_Mom2D_J_andRuthie]

well, good, then she should be good... because I'd most likely go with the Regent... it was the top tethers that worried me... should have known toyota would have 3 whole anchors even in an 02.

Kat

[safetynut]

Thank you Julie. I have seen your other posts, and was hoping you would respond to my question. :)

I made a spreadsheet showing the spec.s of these four seats side by side. The Boulevard and Radian are the narrowest, at 14 and 17 inches. (Although that 14" seems suspect to me, from comments I've read. It isn't listed anywhere on the Britax site, only on secondary sites. I need to call them and confirm.) They both only allow a max. child height of 49 inches, but I got out the CDC growth charts, and my daughter shouldn't hit that height, even at her current pace, for another 2.5 - 3 years. By then she'll probably feel like a car seat is too babyish. So that's long enough.

Now I just need to go shopping and see which one fits best beside my current seat.

Here's another question about side-by-side: is it safe if the seats are touching each other, even to the point of being snug up against each other?

Finally, I tried to google the NHTSA's compliance results, and couldn't find any. I worked at it for a while. They have nothing like that on their site - only how user friendly the car seats are. Frustrated. Can you give me the link?

Thank you again,

:)

Andrea

[safetynut]

Hi Kat,

Thank you for your response.

Our Camry does have the three top tether spots, and two sets of metal latch loops, even though we purchased it in the summer of '02. I was delighted to see this, because I was planning ahead for up to 3 children. (Number 2 currently on the way. :))

My research showed you're right about the Regent and Safeguard being the tallest, but they both turned out to be too wide for placing two car seats right next to each other. So I'm going to go shopping and test the Radian and the Boulevard.

:)

Andrea

[o_mom]

Here is the 2005 data:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/comply/fmvss213/213_2005.PDF

The results can be misleading because of the way they measure head excursion using a fixed point behind the seat. A thicker seat will show more head excursion than a thin seat because the thicker seat starts farther forward. Anyway, you can actually link to the individual reports to see all the data.

Also, you can't just go by width alone. A seat like the Regent, Radian or Safguard sits low on the seat. A Boulevard sits higher up, so the widest part is up higher. The actual base is much narrower, so the seats may 'nest' well together. Also, a rear-facing seat may fit up next to a forward-facing seat better than two forward facing seats.

The 14 in is the base of the Boulevard, its widest point is around 20 in. However, the 20 in measurement is well forward of the seatback, so you may be able to fit three across even though the widest measurements seem too big.

The height limit is a guideline on all seats. They can use the seat forward facing until the tops of the ears reach the top of the seat back or the shoulders are over the top slots (unless they are over the weight limit). (Just so you know that 49 in is not set in stone)

[Joolsplus2]

As long as each seat is independently installed securely, they can be crammed next to each other (preventing side motion is actually beneficial for kids in boosters, so touching is fine in a harness, too).
Ummm...my kids don't get a choice in what seat they sit in...they don't want to eat broccoli or wear bike helmets either, but safety and health are simply non-negotiable... not that a good booster isn't safe, but don't give in on the carseat battle before you even have it, ok? :) www.cpsafety.com has a link to older kids in harnessed seats right at the top so you can see kids happily harnessed in various seats. (my 9 and 7 yo's are happy in their Regents, and buckling a harnessed seat is way easier than a booster when you have 'three across' later down the road).
O_mom's right, it's not the overall width, it's really how they mesh together (I find the Radian IS that narrow... I can fit almost anything next to it when it's installed forward facing in our narrow Ford Escape center seat).

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[safetynut]

Haven't been able to work on this for a week. Finally went in today to try out a bunch of seats.

Turns out my daughter's shoulders are already maxing out the top harness slots in the Radian and the Boulevard. I guess her body is longer in proportion than I realized. So we're looking again at the Husky/Regent, where she has several inches to go.

In addition, the tech said she was trained that I've been mis-using my Camry latch. I have only two sets of latches, one on each side, none in the middle (though I do have a middle tether). But I've had my daughter's car seat latched in the middle for three years, just using the centermost latch from each side. We've had a very sturdy fit. Can you think of any reason for what she was told?

She also said you can't double-up with a latch, i.e. two different seat latches attached to the same hook, even if the hook is wide enough.

Finally, she also said that she was trained that it's okay for the bodies of two car seats to be touching, but not for the bases to touch. Again, can you think of any reason for that?

Anyway, it looks like a Regent can't fit in the middle no matter what, because it would cover both seat belts.

Back to square one...

[o_mom]

Unless the vehilcle manufacturer AND the seat manufacturer allow it, you cannot use the outboard lower anchors to install a seat in the middle. The only ones that do right now are Ford (Lincoln/Mercury/Mazda) and Britax. It should say in your vehicle manual if it is allowed. If it doesn't specifcally say it is allowed, then it is not.

Basically, the anchors are tested as a set and the distance is standard. If you use anchors that are farther apart or narrower the seat may not perform well. Also, since the set of anchors is meant to be pulled together, a force pulling on one side will not behave the same and may cause them to fail.

She is also correct that you cannot attach two seats to the same anchor. The anchors are tested to a certain weight (usually 40 or 48 lbs) and by putting two seats on it, you are doubling the weight on that anchor.

I'm not sure if the bases touching thing is correct, but the tech sounds like she is pretty good.

I think you are looking at either putting both outboard or the baby in the middle. You will have to install the Regent with the seatbelt eventually, because your LATCH anchors are only rated to 48 lbs (check your vehicle manual for confirmation, if it doesn't say, assume 48 lbs).

Good Luck!

[willoL]

After agonizing about buying a Safeguard seat sight-unseen (no local stores carry them), I just bit the bullet and bought a Safeguard GO booster for my 3 year old.

At $199, it isn't a cheap seat, but it doesn't compare to the $450 pricetag for Safeguard's other carseat.

It is FF only with a harness for 30-60 pounds; backless booster for 40-100 pounds. Height range given for harness mode is 34-52"; 43-57" for booster mode.

Now, I really leaned toward this seat because it folds up into its own carry-on sized case so I can travel (fly) with it now that my son is outgrowing our Sit-N-Stroll. (I'm terrified of flying somewhere only to have our seat "misplaced" by the baggage people and be trapped at the airport.) My son and I spend 2-3 MONTHS each year visiting family in a different state so I need to travel with a really good seat.

I also like that this seat lets you use the LATCH connectors to keep the seat in place when it is in booster mode, even though you will still need to buckle your child into place with the seatbelt. I don't know if other seats do this, but it makes a lot of sense and means my husband won't have a loose seat sliding around when he forgets to re-buckle after our son exits the car.

I was worried that all Safeguard's advertising meant that it was a lot of hype. Installing this thing was trivially easy, though, just like they advertise, and I got the best fit I've ever had with any seat on leather upholstery on my first try. With other seats, I've felt compelled to have my husband or father use their superior strength/bulk to really lean in to get a tight fit. I don't know if they somehow get better leverage with their straps, but I was amazed at how little huffing, puffing and heaving I had to do to get the GO cemented into place. I didn't even have to sit in it! :)

You are REQUIRED to use the top-tether for harness mode because the back of this seat can fold (for travel), but it sounds like that would work in your current car.

Anyway, because I found less information than I wanted about this seat when I was AGONIZING about spending the money for it, I wanted to add my two cents. I probably sound like I work for those people, but, really, I just want to share my info because these seats are so new and I couldn't get enough data myself.

My experience has been so positive that if, God willing, I have another child soon, I will most likely buy one of the big (expensive) Safeguard seats for our primary car for my toddler and use our current Britax Wizard for the new baby.

--willo