Related to the winter coat thread

[beckych]

Am I the only one who just cringes over the fact that EVERYone I know (I mean, literally, everyone) that has babies uses that darn BundleMe (or however it's spelled)?

Or maybe I am just overreacting, and they really aren't so bad?

(I don't say anything. Believe me, I would get the dirtiest looks or worse. I have gotten plenty of eyerolls at the extended rear-facing thing. I am not even going to touch the BundleMe thing. Besides, I think most people think, "Well, they wouldn't sell this if it was unsafe." Which does make me wonder---why do they sell these?!)

I even tried to lend my Lands' End cover (the shower cap type) to a few friends, but they insisted on the BundleMe. What can you do?!

[Radosti]

I used the Bundle Me with DS. It was honestly a god sent. I had a friend who bought the shower cap style for her second and after a week or two of it slipping off, she called me asking to borrow the Bundle Me. It was just sitting in the closet, so I let her borrow it. I did ask her whether she knew of the safety controversy. She said she did, but was so frustrated with the shower cap style that she was done playing that game. She returned it 4 months later. It's still in the closet, won't need it for this kid. But I like how well it's made - it's gone through 2 kiddos and looks brand new still.

Honestly, it's a fine line of your comfort lever with the safety concern vs. the issues with the shower cap style one being horrible to use. I guess it depends on which shower cap style you buy too. She likely had whatever she could find at BRU or Target, so it didn't stay on at all if you moved the handle.

[o_mom]

Oh, yes. They are all over the place here. I even knew someone who was mad that the nurses at the hospital made her remove it to take the baby home. Those that don't have the BundleMe usually have a Snuzzler or those giant double headrests.

[egoldber]

I'm not familiar with the BundleMe, but I think there'a fleece part that goes under the baby and then a part in front for over the baby. I didn't have a BundleMe, but used something similar.

So here's my question. If a thin fleece jacket is OK to wear in the carseat, how is the BundleMe (or similar) different than a thin jacket? I know for me I was able to get my babies in the carseat MUCH more tightly using the BundleMe type thing than when they are wearing a jacket.

I get that the Snuzzler if different because of the huge fleece "pillows" in it. I had one of those too for the stroller.

[o_mom]

The Bundle me is not thin - it is thick fleece - at least the ones I have seen.

The bigger problem, IMO, is that it is a one size fits all product. This means that the holes for the straps are not specific to any one seat. This can push the straps off the shoulders. Even if the parent checks that they are on the shoulder each time, if the baby moves and shifts, the extra material behind them can move the straps.

[beckych]

>I used the Bundle Me with DS. It was honestly a god sent. I
>had a friend who bought the shower cap style for her second
>and after a week or two of it slipping off, she called me
>asking to borrow the Bundle Me. It was just sitting in the
>closet, so I let her borrow it. I did ask her whether she
>knew of the safety controversy. She said she did, but was so
>frustrated with the shower cap style that she was done playing
>that game. She returned it 4 months later. It's still in the
>closet, won't need it for this kid. But I like how well it's
>made - it's gone through 2 kiddos and looks brand new still.
>
>
>Honestly, it's a fine line of your comfort lever with the
>safety concern vs. the issues with the shower cap style one
>being horrible to use. I guess it depends on which shower cap
>style you buy too. She likely had whatever she could find at
>BRU or Target, so it didn't stay on at all if you moved the
>handle.

I have the Lands' End one, and I had a Chicco Keyfit. It fit perfectly. It never came off. It was so simple to use, and I literally never had any problems with it. It might have been more expensive than the ones at BRU and Target (it was about $40), but it was so worth it. I loved that it had a face flap too, which I don't think the BundleMe has. Also, my SIL had the BundleMe, and her baby was always sweating in there. That was also never the case with the Lands' End one.

I know that some people don't think even the shower cap covers are a good idea, since there is still the possibility that the baby is underneath it not strapped in. For me, though, I am so anal that I always, always, always checked and rechecked the straps before I tucked a little blanket around her and then zipped up the cover.

I am sure most people know this, but the Lands' End cover would not fit on the larger Keyfit or the Safeseat....it's only large enough for the up to 22 pound seats.

[Just a fun sidenote---my cover matched perfectly too! : ) My Keyfit was the plum color, and the cover was the orchid one.....it's so sad that my Keyfit was "ruined" in the accident! : ( ]

[beckych]

>Oh, yes. They are all over the place here. I even knew
>someone who was mad that the nurses at the hospital made her
>remove it to take the baby home. Those that don't have the
>BundleMe usually have a Snuzzler or those giant double
>headrests.
>
>

Did she put it back on as soon as she got home? ; )

Now that I think about it, a few of these same friends who have the BundleMe have the giant double headrests too. I will have to look now to see if they have both in there! (I don't even know if that's possible.)

[beckych]

Well, and here is what is on the JJ Cole website:

Crash Tested - FMVSS 213

Tests performed on infant car seats with the Bundle Me® installed found that the car seats complied with the Restraint System Integrity and Occupant Excursion portions of the FMVSS 213 requirements.

What does this mean exactly? I guess I don't have to cringe anymore?

[pastrygirl]

A car seat tech told me that FMVSS 213 is not for aftermarket products. It's for the seat only. When I read those two sections that it mentions, I wonder why it didn't go on to test with the rest of the sections, too.

Also, which car seat(s) was it tested with? Was it tested with my brand/model? I don't know that it was tested with mine, so I won't be using it. If you call the car seat manufacturer to see if they think it's OK to use an aftermarket product in their seat, I bet they'd say no.

I don't know why this isn't a black-and-white issue. There are GREAT and safe alternatives all over the place, so why take the risk? The fact that people want what they can find at BRU is silly, since online shopping is readily available. I didn't set one foot in BRU when I was planning for my son's arrival. I did everything online.

ETA: It's one thing if you've read all the info and make an informed decision to continue using it. I think most of us are trying to reach the ones who use it without knowing the risk, just because it's so readily available.

Cristina
mom to Toby, 6/10/06

[o_mom]

The Keyfit 30 is the same size as the orignal. :-)

[o_mom]

FMVSS 213 does not cover aftermarket products at all, it is only for child restraints. I think they are saying that they did a crash test with the BundleMe in an infant seat and that seat still passed. They don't say which seat or seats they have tested, so you don't know if your particular seat passed. They also do not address the concern that the extra material and/or the holes not aligning can shift the harness.

It is also important to note that no manufacturer approves the use of aftermarket products. They also make it clear that it will void the warranty on the seat. I think the showercap style is close enough to a blanket that it wouldn't be a problem, but something that goes in the seat and around the baby certainly would.

[beckych]

Hey, I didn't know that! I just assumed that it had to be larger (like the Safeseat is larger than the Snugride). Since my beloved Keyfit can't be used again because of a car accident, then I will definitely consider getting the Keyfit 30 for our next baby! Yay!!

[Or maybe I will just wait and see what the newest and easiest to use is at that time! ; )]

[beckych]

I am so with you on "why take the risk?!," but it seems like most people I know just roll their eyes at the idea that it's even a risk, you know?

I guess it kind of confuses me why these are even okay to be sold.

[HIU8]

I have the lands end one that I currently use with a Safeseat. It does fit, although it is a stretch and it sometimes pops off the bottom. However, DD's feet hang somewhat over the edge and I think that contributes to it popping off. It isn't a really snug fit on the sides, but it doesn't sit above the seat lip either. I am very happy with it and DD is always strapped correctly into the seat before I put it on each and every time. I also have a full body fleece for DD that I will use in the winter when it is just freezing outside.

With DS I had a bundle me. I hated it. I used it for 2 months when I read here that they were not safe. Now, because of this site, I know so much better :-)

Heather
DS 11/27/04
DD 6/9/07

[Joolsplus2]

It's ok to be sold because no one has sued the socks off these companies for the injury or death of a child using one. On the one hand, yay, it probably means they aren't TOO bad...on the other, greedy people will just keep on cranking them out, selling more than enough to cover a fat lawsuit if and when it happens (hello? why can't the seat makers make ones that fit the seats? How much would we love a tailor made cover that matches our safseat or key fit or Marathon, and is crash tested with it????)

:)
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 3 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/Leah.aspx

[chays]

I used the BundleMe with both my kids. HOWEVER, I didn't know with DS what I knew with DD 2.5 years later. I think what I did was a great idea...I cut a hole in the back of the bundle me so that there was nothing between the child and the seat. It eliminated the thickness problem and the strap hole alignment all at the same time. If you are handy, you can sew around the opening, but mine didn't fray at all -- it was fine.

Good luck!

[801kelle]

I have read and have been told by my cousin who is a CPS Tech..

The rule of thumb as I understand it to be is NEVER USE ANY AFTER MARKET PRODUCTS ON A CAR SEAT... they can effect the safety of how the car seat will respond in a crash. Only use the products that come with your car seat because the seat has been crash tested with them.


A Note on Car Seat Covers
Many companies also offer thick car seat covers that act like a bunting for babies in the winter. Parents should avoid buying any car seat cover or infant bunting that threads through the harness straps of their child's car seat. Often the packaging of these covers states that the product meets all federal car seat safety guidelines. However, there are no federal guidelines governing after-market car seat accessories. These extra car seat covers and buntings could interfere with the function of the car seat harness, and many car seat manufacturers will void your car seat warranty if after-market accessories are used.


I will also add all the info why it is NOT SAFE TO PUT YOUR KIDS IN THEIR SEATS WITH HEAVY COATS ON. I keep a thick stroller blanket in my car to put over my daughter in the winter.

QUOTE:

A Real Life Example:
In order to become a certified CPS tech, Ellis had to take an extensive car seat safety course and pass both a written exam and hands-on car seat installation exams. "When I took my tech class we were shown a picture of an infant seat with a snowsuit under the harness," she says. "The seat was pulled out of a car that had just been in a crash. The infant was ejected from the seat and the car and was found some feet away from the car, but the snowsuit was left in the seat just as the baby was wearing it."

Ellis says other parents can learn a valuable car seat safety lesson from this real life crash story. "It's a great example of what can happen in a crash if the straps are not tight enough and if a thick blanket or coat is under the harness," she says. "The harness must stay close to the child's body at all times."

ANOTHER QUOTE:

"It is unsafe to put a thick coat, snowsuit, or blanket on under the harness of a car seat," Ellis says. "In a crash the coat would compress, making the straps too loose and possibly allowing the child to be ejected from the seat."
The car seat harness needs to stay close to the child’s body at all times. If a coat is in between the harness and the child's body it could cause the child to be ejected from the seat. All coats and clothing will compress in a crash, but thicker winter coats and snowsuits could compress enough to allow the child to be ejected from the car seat.

ARTICLE QUOTES ABOVE CAME FROM:

http://babyproducts.about.com/od/carseats/a/carseatcoat.htm


Check All Winter Coats for Car Seat Safety:

It's easy to check and see whether a baby's winter coat or infant snowsuit is too thick to be safe in a car seat. This test will show you how thick the coat is and how much the coat will compress during the crash.

Take the car seat into the house.
Put the winter coat or snowsuit on the child.
Put the child in the car seat and buckle the harnesses as you normally would before car travel. Adjust the straps to the appropriate fit for your child.
Take the child out of the car seat without loosening the straps at all.
Take the coat off your child.
Put the child back in the car seat and buckle the harnesses again, but do not tighten the straps.
If you can fit more than two fingers under the harness at the child's shoulder bone, the coat is too thick and is not safe for use with the car seat.



HERE IS ANOTHER ARTICLE and QUOTE:

Instead of putting your child in a car seat with a heavy winter coat, the Texas Department of Public Safety recommends that you 'keep your child in the clothes they will be wearing when they are indoors. Place the child in the infant seat or car seat, making sure the harness straps are snug over the shoulders and that they lie straight and flat down to the buckle. Buckle the child in and THEN put the coat or blanket OVER them - on TOP of the harness system. You can even turn the coat around and put his arms through the sleeves after he is buckled into his car seat. This will ensure your kids are kept snug in their seat, the harness system is able to do its job in the event of a crash, and that the kids stay warm.'

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also recommends that 'to keep your baby the safest, always remove bulky clothing or blankets before you place the child in the seat. Then, put the blanket or coat over the baby. You should never place anything thick underneath the baby, unless that item came with the car seat originally — which tells you it's been tested by the manufacturer. When a child is wearing a thick coat, it's hard to tell if you have a good harness fit, which is crucial. A coat can add a lot of slack, reducing the level of protection for your child in a crash.'


ARTICLE QUOTES IS FROM:

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/carseats/a/0107_wintercoat.htm