Okay, Hardysmom, have you gotten your VauDe backpack? I have decided that I don't like my Kelty Ridgeline after all

[hipmaman]

My dh likes the Ridgeline and I have given it a fair shake, but I finally have to admit that I don't like it at all.

I can adjust the pack without the baby to sit on my back properly. But when I put my ds (1 yr old and 21 lbs), he is comfortable in the cockpit, but I am miserable. The pack sags so much with his weight that the lump-bar on the waist strap ends up sitting as low as my buttocks (not my waist). It is too uncomfortable. And I only tried it inside the house. I don't think it would be too comfortable for me on longer outings.

Have you received your VauDe Swing and Pebble yet? I am anxious to know what you think compared to the Madden. Let me know.

No one in Canada sell either Madden or VauDe (although they do sell other products of VauDe, but not child carriers), so will have to go by your reviews and buy it from the US.

Thanks in advance.

[hipmaman]

hi, are you there? Any updates? Thanks.

[hardysmom]

Sorry-- I was consumed finding, buying, and ultimately using baby carriers.

Yes, I got the DeVaudes (and a couple others, sigh) here is my take. It’s a bit long...

First, a disclaimer. My DS is a big-for-his-age (24lbs) 8 months, crawling, starting to cruise, and extremely strong. He isn't one of those kids you could set down in a carrier. That said, I don't put a very high premium on a carrier's kickstand. Although it takes some finesse and practice, I don't find it that difficult to load without being free-standing and my DS would throw a fit if I took my pack off but left him in. If you are really attached to kickstands, and I know a lot of people find them very helpful, then I would stick to the Kelty line (I don't know much about TT).

I have now tried the Madden Voyager (loved it, but the fit wasn't so great on me), Kelty Convertible (just seemed so cool, but wasn't right for my needs), Vaude Pebbles, Vaude Swing, and the (British) Bushbaby Premier. The short version of the following post is that I kept the Bushbaby and the Swing.

The vauDes are both wonderful. The Pebbles is more of an excursion type pack with very, very cushy padding. It is probably the most comfortable carrier (for me) I tried. My son was also very comfortable. The good news is that it has a harness system which can be perfectly customized for any frame by adjusting screws along a sliding frame under the back of the pack. The bad news is, that once adjusted to fit an individual, its a bit of a pain to switch back-and-forth if you are taking turns hauling baby with a person of a differnt build. The only other problem I had was that, for lack of a better word, the pack has a lot of "sway" between the baby seat and the back; therefore, the child has the ability to shift their weight around and kind of lean to one side or another. It didn't bother me very much, but drove my husband crazy. He didn't feel that the carrier distributed the weight evenly from side-to-side and it made him feel off-balance. So the Pebbles went back.

I kept the Swing. It is smaller than the Pebbles and doesn't have the same heavy-duty support for backcountry type trips, but is the best around-town/gardening carrier I have found. At under $100 (at www.mickiesplace.com), it is certainly better than the Gerry-type carriers commonly found at baby stores. I have been walking about 2 miles in it around our flat neighborhood with no major complaint. The Swing is light and extremely simple. It is very hot here and the mesh back keeps the heat manageable, there are "load-lifters" and a chest strap to help distribute weight, and it isn't huge/imposing so you don't feel like you are heading out for two weeks just to go to the post office. My son loves that the backrest of his seat is raised so he can lean back (although he does lean forward to sleep). All in all, it is my favorite carrier for shopping, the park, airports, etc, but it isn't the best for off-trail hiking or longer treks during which you would want a more rigid back frame.

The vauDe sun/rain hood also isn't so great. It can't be packed inside the carrier (at least not in the Swing) when not in use. Hardy found it good sport to try to yank it off while we were walking. I am starting to think that a big hat, some sunscreen, and a packed-away poncho are best regardless of what brand the pack.

My very favorite indulgence in the carrier department is a Bushbaby Premier (www.bush-baby.com) I ordered from the UK. It is a lot like the Madden in its design, but cushier for the baby and more adjustable for different torso lengths. Of the more mainstream packs, I'd put it in a category with the Kelty Ridgeline and up. Its definitely designed for more serious walking/hiking. The cost was about $150 US, including a sun/rain hood, plus shipping. It even comes with a little pillow which attaches to the front of the carrier upon which the child can rest his head while napping. Of all the carriers I tried (obviously a ridiculous number, lol) this one wins. Another intriguing carrier is the MacPac Vamoose from New Zealand. It was a bit more expensive so I chickened out. I wonder why so few carrier lines are distributed in the US?

I don't expect anyone to be as compulsive as me, but just in case... When ordering something from the UK there is an 18% Value Added Tax (VAT) INCLUDED in the price. If you are shipping outside of the EU you don't have to pay the tax, but you often have to remind the retailer to give you the discounted price. Don't just order online without emailing first. Also shipping costs really range so its good to get a quote before you buy. To ship my pack, I was told it would cost from $25 US to $120 US.

Hope this helps anyone who has been waiting!

Stephanie

[hardysmom]

Tam--

I left this out. Neither vauDe nor Madden are widely distributed in the US either. The Fields live in Colorado, the home of Madden and one of the few places you can find them. I have never seen anything but Kelty and TT in Outfitter Stores and I was a camping gear-nut long before I became a baby-gear nut. Even on-line, only a few places carry them. Both seem to be distributed to smaller, mom-and-pop outfitters (which don't have web-sites) more than to the larger chain stores (REI, etc) which usually only have Kelty, maybe TT, and sometines a knock-off pack.

The place I bought my vauDe had free shipping, but I agreed to pay if I returned the items. I don't know the costs of shipping to Canada, but returning the Pebbles from Oklahoma to California by US Mail Priority (with insurance) only cost a little over $10.

Madden's website and toll-free customer service line are really good. They sell directly to the public. You might give them a call to see if there are actually any retailers in Canada or if they would give you a break on shipping to try one on. They were very, very helpful with me.

Stephanie

[hipmaman]

Stephanie,

All I can say is THANK YOU!

Funny you should mention the Baby Bush. I just found out about it a week ago and thought it might do the job. I know some people who travel to the UK often, so I had comtemplated getting it from there.

I also found out there was only one store/chain in Canada that carries the Madden Caravan. The Voyageur has to be bought from the US though.

So, can you tell me between the Madden Caravan and the Bush Baby Premier, which should I get? I would only buy one (unlike my strollers, lol) and I don't like the Ridgeline which I find too bulky and uncomfortable to wear my 14 months (21 lbs).

Do mind telling me where in the UK did you buy your Bush Baby from? I found an opinion on http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/review/373046.html which is like epinions in North America. And he favours the Bush Baby over others. He also mentioned the MacPac :)

Thanks again. You are by far the expert when it comes to backpacks ;)

[hardysmom]

I'd have a hard time offering an opinion on the Caravan since I only had the Voyager. The Voyager didn't have any cushioning on the baby seat. It was just a nylon sling of sorts and although my DS always seemed happy, we wondered if it would be comfortable for a long ride. I don't know if the Caravan has more padding.

Personally, I'd go with the Bushbaby if that is an option. I think it is a better all-around pack. Its a little lighter (4.5 lbs I think), with more padding, and more room for adjustment. Another great thing about the Bushbaby is that the child’s harness is more like an amusement park harness that comes over the head, than a backpack harness, which you have to pull their arms through. Makes loading much easier. The Madden's stand-out strength is its durability. I think you could run over it with a truck and it would be fine.

One thing about the design of the Madden, Bushbaby, and MacPac is that the back of the pack extends up a few inches above where the shoulder harnesses connect. I don't think it makes them terribly uncomfortable or anything, but it does restrict your head movement a little. For some reason, I found this bothered me more with the Madden than the Bushbaby. I have a fairly short torso-- the salesperson said that the bigger the wearer, the less of an issue this is. Delivered, the Bushbaby cost me about $200 US which is the same as the Voyager, but a bit less than the Caravan.

The MacPac looks great and is known for making packs which fit women very well. I believe the cost difference between the MacPac and the Bushbaby (with sun hoods) was about $60 US so (as a change of pace) I actually bought the less expensive. One cool feature about the MacPac is that it has a zippered compartment on the hip-belt for easy access. The Bushbaby has net bottle compartments on the side you can reach pretty easily as well, but they don't zip shut or anything.

It is much tougher to find reviews for stuff in the UK, but generally the MacPac and Bushbaby usually get top billing. More comments can be found on the Bushbaby since it is a little more mainstream. Another thing I took as a big thumbs-up-- lots of outfitters in the UK rent carriers. Bushbaby got particularly good reviews from these stores, which I took as a good indicator of their durability and adjustability.

I got mine at http://www.upandunder.co.uk their overall price was the lowest (99 GBP), but their shipping cost was a bit higher than some (37 GBP). They mailed on a Friday and I received the carrier on Tuesday! They also carry MacPac. For the Bushbaby Premier, look under "Calange" (the manufacturer) on the "Papoose" section. It might take a couple of days for them to initially respond, but then they are wonderful. The accessories are under a different section (pushchair parts, or something?)

A note-- The frame for my sun hood broke in transit, but I emailed the manufacturer who sent a replacement at no charge. In the box with the frame was a catalog-- the sun hood for the Bushbaby has been redesigned and is now sold INCLUDED in the price. If you need a hood and can find a stockist with a newer shipment of carriers, you can save a couple of bucks.

Hope this helps! Good Luck

Stephanie

[hipmaman]

Thanks again. You have given me great info and advice. I want you to know I really appreciate your help.

If you were to choose a MacPac, which model would you choose. I am 5'6" and have average length torso (not long for sure). Which of the MacPac would you get for excursion to fair, zoo, festivals, etc. I want comfort for wearer as well as baby, but don't want the bulk of the Kelty.

I'm leaning toward the Bushbaby and realise that Macpacs are sold in the UK as well. The MacPac looks interested, and it presents a really good chance to try this pack if I can get someone to bring it back from the UK. Reading the specs quickly, I think maybe the Possum will be nice.

What do you think? Thanks again.

[hardysmom]

I am about 5'4" and was looking for something for some hiking, but mostly festivals/zoo/etc... I also felt the comfortable Keltys were too bulky.

I really rode the fence on whether to get the Bushbaby Premier or the MacPac Possum. The Possum looks like a very, very good pack. I had about 5 email conversations going on with various stores in Europe and New Zealand. Everyone said great things about the MacPac. There is a lot of cross-over between the two packs' supporters. Even if someone preferred one, they tended to say very good things about the other. My take was that the MacPac is a slightly more technical pack. Basically, the sales reps said that many people boiled their choices down to these two. Kids sometimes preferred one over the other, but with no obvious favorite. If the babies didn't make the decision, the parents usually had a tough choice. Since I couldn't return it, and everyone spoke highly of both, I went with the less expensive.

I know the Possum is a few ounces heavier than the Bushbaby, but it would be a good question to ask someone about its bulk. The Bushbaby isn't as small as my Swing, mostly because it has a very large storage pouch beneath the baby's seat, but it seems a lot less cumbersome than all of the Kelty's I tried.

The smaller MacPac looked pretty good if you just need something for around town and festivals. It seemed very low-profile. I don't know about the storage or if it would do well as your child grows. By the time I found it, I had used the Swing too much to send it back. Plus, I had asked way too many questions and needed to shut up and buy something :)

stephanie

Stephanie

[hardysmom]

you can get more info about macpac at

http://www.macpac.co.nz

If you order, I think you can find lower prices than their site in the UK.

stephanie

[JamiMac]

Do you think the Swing would work for short moutain hikes (2-3 hours) as well as around town? Is this pack at all height adjustable? I'm 5'3" and my DH is 6" so I'm not sure if it will work or not?

[hardysmom]

Here is another long answer to a short question... A Swing is certainly as good, if not better, than other packs you can get for under $100, particularly for around-town use, but if you are willing to spend a little more, I think you get something more comfortable for real hiking.

The back is mesh, which is great for staying cool, but not so great for support if you are wearing it for an extended time or over varied terrain. The storage compartment is in the back and there are no bottle-holders or pockets easily accessed if you are alone without taking off the pack. Also, the baby is right behind the mesh and so you feel every move. Again, its great for Saturday Market, the zoo, or a flat hike to a picnic, but you could do better for longer day-hikes-- at least if you hike often. If 99% of your use would be shorter city type uses, but you need something cost-effective for the very occasional hike you would probably be able to grin-and-bear-it. That was my plan when I purchased it. We go on a fishing trip every year to Colorado when we hike daily up a steep mountain trail about 2 hours to a trout stream. Besides that week-long trip, we don't hike a lot. I could have made due with the Swing but I received some unexpected birthday money which I couldn't let burn a hole in my pocket :) so I got the second carrier. I feel a bit guilty because I spent so much on the Bushbaby (which is great) but for grab-and-go, I still reach for the Swing.

The frame does not adjust like the Pebbles-- it is a very simple design with no moving parts. I have found that most "real" backpack carriers (as opposed to baby-store brands) are designed for larger people (read: men). So as a smaller person, you may have a harder time finding one that fits you than your husband. The Swing fits me (5'4") and my husband (5'10") well. Packs are funny-- height doesn't always have much to do with fit-- torso length, build, and personal preference really come in to play.

One last thing-- the Swing is very good with smaller (under 35 lbs) or younger kids because of its high back and unique frame. Of all the packs I tried, it is my son's favorite.

hope that helps! stephanie

[hipmaman]

Geez, these Macpacs are expensive. Even to buy from NZ, the Possum is over $320 Cad, before shipping, duty and taxes. Yikes!

I am working on the Baby Bush angle. I just haven't been able to email upandunder.com (might not have the right name, but the link you gave for the store you bought yours from). My messages have been returned.

Anyway, what colour did you get? Blue? I have seen different sites having green, blue, red and purple. Are colours indicative of model years? What are the differences in the 2001 and 2002 models, besides the rain cover which is now included in the 2002 model?

I have asked the manufacture, but haven't heard from them. Thanks again.

[hardysmom]

I got mine from www.upandunder.co.uk its not a .com. They have a great site and also carry Macpac. For some reason, its a little less expensive to buy from a retailer in the UK than direct from Macpac in NZ-- but still, they are very expensive. I just couldn't justify it because of the shipping charge. I have seen both Macpacs and Bushbaby on ebay, so you could recapture some of the expense, but it is still risky.

By the way, in case you want to do a search, the carrier you are looking for is the Bushbaby Premier made by Calange. I got it in blue, but upandunder also had red. I don't know about other colors-- but I know the little rainjacket comes in teal, so the pack probably does as well.

The more I use it, the more I like it.

Let me know what you find.

stephanie

[JamiMac]

Hardysmom....One more question.. You said that we could probably find a more substantial pack than the Swing for short hiking trips but we don't really want anything big and heavy. Would you say the Swing would compare to the Base Camp from Kelty or the Madden Voyager? Or is not as substantial as those? They are in the catagory (price and size) we'll probably be buying in. I like the fact that the Swing is mesh just for coolness sake. We live is Dallas and it's hot!!! Thanks so much, again!

[duncanmom]

Hello Stephanie,

After reading your testimonial to the Bush-Baby and many e-reviews, I am excited about getting one. I have looked at the Bush-baby site and tried to find the retailers online. So far, the costs have been around $220. Would you mind sharing which store/site you found to have the best deal? I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this site. I appreciate your insight.

Susan

[hipmaman]

Hi Susan,

If you read one of those long post that Stephanie answered me, you'll see the store name like 'upandunder' or something like that. They have it for around 99-100 Sterling pounds without VAT and shipping is about $37 Sterling pounds.

The most expensive Bush Baby Premier should not be more than 130 with VAT (so take 17.5% off that to get the amount you would pay). 220 is way too high, unless you mean $220 USD.

Tam

[hardysmom]

I'm in Oklahoma so I understand the heat! The Swing is not nearly as much of a hiking pack as the Madden Voyager or the Base Camp, but it costs $100 less. Last week my brother-in-law visited with his 16 mo son who rides in one of those Evenflo models. For hiking, I'd say the Swing is a much better choice than one of those, but not as substantial as a Voyager or Kelty. I really like my Swing, but mostly for using around town, walks in my neighborhood, museum, zoo, etc. Not only the mesh, but also the way the baby is held really does keep things cooler/ less sweaty than the others I tried. You can take it off without being soaked. Personally, I could very easily "make due" on almost any hike with it, but that is such a personal call-- everyone's comfort level, fit, etc is so different I'd hate to get you in a bind if you need more support.

If you have the ability to find one to try, I'd give the Voyager a good look. I really liked it.

After trying on several carriers, I think I must have a short torso length and the Swing fits me very well, but it may be small on a larger man.

[JamiMac]

OK, and Update...
I called Madden this morning to see if I could try the packs anywhere in Dallas. Unfortunately, they don't sell the Voyager anywhere, just the Caravan at one place. The lady I spoke with though said I would have a really hard time a 5'3" with the pack no matter what my torso size. She said it would fit my 6 foot husband great--exactly what you found, Stephanie. So I went on to call Mickiesplace to order the Vaude, and they don't sell them anymore!!! She confirmed that it would be the best one for me size-wise and so she ordered one to be drop-shipped straight from Vaude because they have a few left in stock. She said she liked the products but had a really hard time with the company due to deliveries from Germany. She also said she had a hard time with the Pebbles but never the Swing, she said it was great. So it's on its way, and I'm excited. They seem really hard to find, even online, so I'm glad I got this opportunity before there aren't any left!! And thanks for everyone's help--I'll review when it gets here.--Jami

[TB]

My wife and I love our Vaude Pebbles we got at Mickies Place. It takes a minute to adjust between us, but the fit is so good, like real backpack.

Mickie is very nice and great to work with. Don't think I can say the same about Vaude. Keep that in mind.

[ameelo]

Stephanie,

Thanks so very much for your reviews. I too have a larger baby. I've tried a couple of backpacks with no success. DS just feels too squished in them all. I've tried the run-of-the mill brands...kelty elite, ridgeline, insteps, tt, and evenflo. i've returned them all except the elite which i will have to resell on ebay.

i guess what i need is a more *formed* seat as opposed to a simple sling as DS whines and squirms if he feels too squished. *can babies feel claustrophobic?* Also, if the front part of the baby's seat (uhm...the part that he would face), is too high, he just HATES it.

So, in your experiences, is there a backpack that has a roomier seat area and a low *baby front*...maybe no higher than baby's chest?

TIA...as I am also questing for the perfect backpack,

Amee

[nmorgan]

Thanks to all the posters for the excellent information!

Based on these recommendations, we purchased the Vaude Swing to take our 25 lb. one-year-old through the airport and on short hikes for our vacation. (We found it at Outdoor Kids' Source ([link:www.kidssource.com|www.kidssource.com]). Ordered it on Sunday, got it Wednesday. It was more expensive than at Mickie's Place, but in stock.) It worked great, was much less cumbersome than the carriers with fold-out stands we tried, and our son loved it.

Oddly enough, my 6'3" husband and 5'6" self both use the same back adjustment comfortably. As was previously noted, fit is quite individual. We found it to be perfect for our needs and we were pleasantly surprised by how much we could fit in the storage area.

Thanks again!

[hipmaman]

Oh good to know. I almost wanted to buy it at Outdoor Kids' Source too. But I am going to be in London in about 3 wks and will try both the Bush Baby Premier and MacPac Possum for size, lol. Will let everyone know how they are.

I am glad you found these posts useful and the Swing working well for you.

[hardysmom]

I was a little worried about all this pack talk since fit is so subjective. I am so happy to hear that other people have have good experiences with VauDe. I have really found the Swing to be both comfortable and handy.

Before the Bush Baby, I ordered my Madden Voyager from Outdoor Kids Source-- they are fantasic and also handle returns very well if the carrier doesn't work out.

We just returned from a week of hiking in the Rocky Mountains-- the Bush Baby survived its first big test with flying colors. One day we climbed up to near-timberline and then hiked down into a beautiful meadow-- I'd say Hardy was in the pack for a good 3 hours before really getting out for a break. He was all smiles and had the time of his life. At times, I felt like my lungs would never forgive me, but I can't really blame that on the carrier. My back was one of the few parts which didn't throb at the end of the day! No matter which brand works for you, a good fit makes a such a difference!

Stephanie