Did your Dr. tell you not to use your car seat in your stroller?

[DAKnits]

I am just curious if many Doctors are warning their patients not to use the car seat in the stroller to take babies on longer errands/walks.

My Dr. (who is the head of the pediatrics unit of one of the best Children's Hospitals here in South Florida) told me on my first visit not to use the car seat option in the stroller unless I was literally going in and out of a store b/c the baby can't change positions in a car seat, and the angle is bad for the neck, and the constant pressure in the exact same place on the back of the head causes flatness which could require correction (the helmet).

Already, two of the kids in our playgroup have helmets b/c they were in the car seat all the time (one mom used the snap n go for everything, and one used a travel system). These moms are GREAT moms and great friends of mine, and they both wished they were educated by their doctors. I am just curious if Doctors are addressing this, b/c I see so many new moms on this Board inquiring about strollers, and using car seat compatibility with a stroller as one of their main criteria.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I am just wondering if there are other women out there like the moms in my group who would make a different decision about using the car seat in the stroller if they had known the potential risks.

[Nooknookmom]

Bingo - your Doc is right ;).

This info wasn't available when my DD (now 9) was born and travel systems were just coming out. I saw SO many babies cramped in these little seats. I didn't use the one I was given. I used my full recline stroller. DD hated the infant seat anyway because the nurse pinched her little leg strapping her in on the day we left the hospital, boy was I ticked!

Anyway, what is scary to me is that almost all new mom's nowdays think they *have* to use a travel system and put their baby in the carseat to stroll. I hope more Doctors are like yours and warn momma's not to use the carseat for anything other than what it is intended for - a carseat!

Thanks for bringing this up!!! :) :) :)

[strollerqueen]

Thank you for posting that! You have one great doctor! I have kind of giving up telling people lately, because so many people insist they have to have one. That's the first question I am always asked, "does such and such a stroller take a car seat?" In fact, most manufacturers who were opposed to it finally caved in and added straps to hold car seats. They said they were losing too many sales, to other brands that were "car seat compatible."

[mariza]

Funny you brought this up, I was driving out of my development yesterday which is basically made out of groups of cul-de-sacs and I saw a Mom pushing a baby with her TS and baby in the car seat. I know she was probably leaving her house and headed to the playground (toddler in tow with the newborn) but it made me wonder. Do people think you *have* to use the car seat? Because really there would not be any other reason for this woman to be doing this, and if so, what do they think that nice big stroller with the cushy seat is for? So many posts I see are people who initially bought TS's and are now wanting to upgrade and they say things like, "now that DC is out of the carseat, this stroller is too much to handle" (not necessarily on this board but another I belong to). Sorry, I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I really just don't get it. Thats not to say a universal carrier is not a good idea for a few weeks while you figure out your strolling needs, but when baby is out for hours at a time, you need to allow them to wiggle around. I personally saved the $50- $60 and put it towards my P3 which is almost as lightweight and more compact than a snap n go.

[winnypooh]

So many people that have had travel systems, or at least the super light weight car seat carriers tell me thats one of those "you can't live without this" things. I just don't get it. I will ve honest, and say that I'm looking at strollers that DO take the car seat, BUT are FULL FUNCTIONING STROLLERS WITH FULL RECLINE as well! There are times when I'm going to be running into the store for milk, or something, and I'll be greatful I have it, but I've also heard all the warnings, (and read them) about issues with being in the car seat too much.

I think some of this need for travel systems comes from the manufacturers of these car seat carriers. Someone earlier made the point of stroller manufacturers conceding to the fact that they still needed those sales, and I can see that. But if you simply look at universal car seat carriers, there used to be 1 that I knew of, that was the babytrend snap n go... then there was kolcraft, and I think to myself, okay 2 out there... this year, I've seen 3-4 other manufacturers hop into this market. It's such an economic driven thing, that it all comes down to the money!

I agree, save the money from the universal, and spend that towards a GOOD stroller that will last you at least a couple years, and most certainly more than a couple of months.

Sorry, getting off my soap box now. Hope no one was offended.
-Wendy

>Funny you brought this up, I was driving out of my
>development yesterday which is basically made out of groups of
>cul-de-sacs and I saw a Mom pushing a baby with her TS and
>baby in the car seat. I know she was probably leaving her
>house and headed to the playground (toddler in tow with the
>newborn) but it made me wonder. Do people think you *have* to
>use the car seat? Because really there would not be any other
>reason for this woman to be doing this, and if so, what do
>they think that nice big stroller with the cushy seat is for?
>So many posts I see are people who initially bought TS's and
>are now wanting to upgrade and they say things like, "now that
>DC is out of the carseat, this stroller is too much to handle"
>(not necessarily on this board but another I belong to).
>Sorry, I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I really just
>don't get it. Thats not to say a universal carrier is not a
>good idea for a few weeks while you figure out your strolling
>needs, but when baby is out for hours at a time, you need to
>allow them to wiggle around. I personally saved the $50- $60
>and put it towards my P3 which is almost as lightweight and
>more compact than a snap n go.

[my3lilgals]

When I had my first baby, I sort of thought they were supposed to be in the carseat vs. in the stroller w/out it -- because I seldom saw a young baby OUT of a carseat!

Of course, my children all hated being in the carseat for one minute more than necessary so it was never much of an issue with any of them. But I have friends who left their babies in there all the time.

Never heard of any warnings til I started frequenting stroller boards, though. I don't think it is publicized well as so many new moms think baby is supposed to be always be in the carseat, and waste money on travel systems solely because it takes a car seat.

[mommato2boys]

My doctor never warned me about this...but...I just didn't think it was comfy for DS if he was in the car seat all day long. I think the infant carry seats are great for transporting them to and from, but after that, I always thought they needed a stretch..KWIM?
But I don't think this problem is limited to stroller use. I know many parents who let the babies nap, and even sleep the night in the infant seats so this is adding to the problem also.
If I am going in and out, I use the infant seat. Other than that, I leave it in the car and use a stroller...besides, in the south it is hot and those infant seats are hot!!!!!

[Piglet]

I see people going for walks with their baby in a car seat ALL the time!!! I actually think the main reason for this is because strollers no longer face backwards. I think that it is so sad that everyone buys these forward facing plastic monstrous travel systems and then they are forced to use a car seat to have a nice walk while facing ther babies. This is why I insisted on a pram when we had DS1. I couldn't understand why no one else seemed to want to face their babies. I loved having a "chat" with DS while walking and he was much more compfortable in a full-reclining pram. I had a Snap n Go for trips to the bank/doctor's office/etc., but the pram was great for walks to the park.

[quartzlynn]

Jumping in with a followup quesrion. My girlfriend was visiting last weekend with her 4 month old who has acid reflux and is literally ALWAYS in her car seat (including to sleep) because thats what Dr. told her to do. Her head seems fine (I was secretly inspecting because of all I heard) and the baby is tiny - 12 lbs at 4 months - but I wonder why her doctor wouldn't tell her not to have the baby in there except for in the car and sleeping (he definately didnt!)

Just wondering...

[strollerqueen]

I've heard that doctors tell other people that, too. But if the goal is to keep the baby's head elevated, then couldn't she also just raise up the stroller seat a notch? Or alternate with a sling, swing, bouncy seat, or just carry them?

One other thing, tell your friend to make sure she always has the harness fastened if her baby is sleeping in the car seat. There have been cases in which mommies unfastened the harness to make their baby more comfy when sleeping, then they slid down, and couldn't right themselves. The air gets cut to their windpipe, and they strangle. :(

[quartzlynn]

Oh lord I SO dont want to be the bossy friend who tells her what to do or freaks her out. I think they were transitioning her to a crib with some kind of wedge so I am going to keep my mouth shut. they are going to the doctor this week so I will let him tell them what to do!

[nov04]

We weren't warned but I'd done enough reading online to know this was an issue. Everywhere I look I see kids in their carseats/travel systems even when there's no car in sight.

When dd was little we barely left the house (ppd, anxiety issues, her stomach problems, etc) so her being cooped up in a carseat really wasn't an issue. When we were going out more, I would get her into her snowsuit in the backseat of our car (no snowsuit when in carseat) and into her P3 (even in southern Ontario, our winters can be brutal) on the way into the mall etc.

Thankfully we don't have issues like that to deal w/.

[DAKnits]

My DD had reflux and what I did was keep her in the bouncy seat for 10 minutes after her feeding, and then transfer her while she slept into the crib. This way, she had more time to digest while being upright, but didn't spend too much time in the seat. Reflux is awful!

At the mall today, I can't tell you how many newborns spent hours in car seats snapped into their strollers. I think that stroller companies will continue to push their travel systems until a big deal is made about it by the medical community. Until then, why would they educate the public when it causes parents to buy both their car seats and their strollers -- there is too much of an economic incentive for them not to advise customers of the risks.

I actually think that putting the car seat in the stroller is more hassle for the parent, and adds more bulk. I am also truly baffled at how many people post on this Board that they are going to use the car seat and a snap-n-go as their only stroller "until their baby grows out of the infant seat" ... is there a total lack of education and/or information out there? Something should be done about this, IMHO.

How does the public go about bringing this kind of issue to the forefront ... how could more parents get educated if Doctors aren't doing it. I wonder how a "campaign" can get started against using car seats in the strollers (for any length of time)? I would be interested in figuring out how to get the word out, but have never done this kind of thing.

[quartzlynn]

I can tell you that MANY people told me just to get the Snap 'n Go and use until DB is too big for her infant seat. Ditto on how many of my friends leave them in the infant seat for hours and hours. I am already the friend who has read all the books/warning etc and doesnt even have a baby yet (8 weeks to go!) so I really have kept my mouth shut for the most part. I think education is key, but I can tell you that every baby store I have gone to pushes strollers where the infant seat can go in it.

Until there are numerous published / publicized reports on the issue and until pediatricians universally warn their patients things will not change. Even at that there will be resistance. For example the SIDS alliance's "Back to Sleep" campaign seems to have gotten through loud and clear to the public, yet they also are against the use of bumpers in cribs and most people do not follow that particular warning. Even now my mom doesnt understand why you put babies to sleep on their backs since EVERYONE put them on their tummies when she and her friends had kids.


Unfortunately, there just arent the number of publicized studies about leaving kids in car seats as there are with the other issues...Not sure what the answer is and even though I have been educated on the issue here, unless my doctor tells me otherwise I probably WILL use a snap-n-go for in and out of stores only because of convenience and not wanting to disturb an infant and because there HASNT been a widespread warning about the issue. On the other hand, I will not be using the car seat connectors in my stroller if I am going to a mall, on a walk, etc because of the information I have. I also purchased a Noggin Nest from Boppie which is supposed to help...

Just my $.02!

Courtney
EDD 9-1-2005

[sarahsthreads]

I did use a travel system, but judiciously. My stroller does not fully recline, so we couldn't use it alone for the first 2 months. And it was so much easier to run errands with a sleeping baby who would stay asleep - at this point, 9 times out of 10 I can't get Carrie from her carseat to her stroller (or crib for that matter) without waking her up, and I do sometimes miss being able to run a 2 minute errand without waking a baby who had just fallen asleep.

I hadn't read that it's bad to leave them in an infant seat. My doctor never mentioned it at all, either. I don't think I'd change what I did, though, and I'll probably do the same for the next baby. But I also kind of followed Carrie's lead. I could tell when she was getting tired of sitting and never forced her to stay in her seat - except obviously in the car. If she was awake and I didn't need both hands free I would carry her for a bit while her stroller did bag and purse duty. Honestly, I don't think I could have managed to do our Christmas shopping when she was just a few weeks old without that setup! But I was still recovering myself, so I was never out for more than a couple of hours at a time anyway.

Do people really leave babies in one of those for many hours at a stretch? I always needed to nurse or change Carrie practically hourly, so there was a definite limit to how long she'd be in the seat anyway.

Sarah :)

[DAKnits]

I found this post at this link:

http://www.girl-mom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2302&

What Is Positional Plagiocephaly?

Positional plagiocephaly is a disorder in which the back or one side of an infant's head is flattened, often with little hair growing in that area. It is usually caused when a baby spends a lot of time lying on his back or is frequently left in a position where his head is resting against a flat surface (such as in cribs, strollers, and playpens). Because infants' heads are soft to allow for incredible brain growth in the first year of life, they are susceptible to being "molded" into a flat shape. The rates of plagiocephaly among children are rising dramatically due to the Back to Sleep to Prevent SIDS campaign. Putting your child on their back while sleeping is great, but with all that constant pressure on the back of their heads now, you need to know how to prevent plagiocephaly with switching up their positioning from side to side. Most new mothers get NO information on this coming out of the hospital, and the need for corrective devices is becoming all too common.

If you have a concern, talk to your doctor. Most doctors will tell you that your babies head will 'round out' on it's own. This is rarely true, by the 7-8th month your babies head will start to harden and fuse the skull bones making this disorder PERMANENT. As I will state later in the post, regular physicians aren't even allowed to make diagnosed opinions on your child's headshape, they have to refer you to a neurologist, neurosurgeon or a pediatrician with experience in cranial clinics.

I myself had it at birth, and I still have a mishapen skull and someone non-symmetrical features, all because my parents were told it would ROUND OUT, and it never did, and it still causes me discomfort, it's the cause of my poor eye sight, my TMJ, and my facial features are a little asymmetrical as well although not many people can point it out. I can't lay on hard surfaces because the bumps hurt.

In fact in the positional plagiocephaly yahoo group I am in, there was a poll taken to see how many people tried repositioning with no corrective band first and how it had worked.

'Letting it Round Out' only worked for 4% of the people who tried it on that website (There's over 500 parents with children with plagio there) Many parents who were told to just let their children's heads round out naturally ended up having to do a last minute attempt at corrective devices, but these didn't do as much because they waited until their children were almost too old to do it.

In many cases the plagiocephaly is so bad that you can't just ignore it and it needs corrective devices. That is how Treyton and thousands of babies across North America are. If you leave plagiocephaly and it gets worse it can cause facial deformations and problems with brain growth.

What is the average cost for corrective devices?
$3000 US dollars.
And that's JUST for the band or helmet.
It would cost a lot more once you add on neurosurgeon visits, cat scans, etc. It's a lot better to just do some research into it, read up on how to prevent it and stop it from even happening in the first place.

So new parents, limit the amount of time your child spends in things like car seats, strollers, etc. and switch their position in their crib. Start them on tummy time early and hold them up so that there isn't any pressure on their head as much as you can. This condition is preventable unless your child is born with torticollis (shortened or weakened neck muscles on one side that causes them to prefer laying on one side of their head only)

If any one wants any more information on it, I currently work with the provider of these custom head bands (Cranial Tech) and the hospitals and clinics in my area trying to provide information and pamphlets to new mothers, so I have some extra pamphlets on plagiocephaly and tummy time kicking around my house, as well as physician assessment forms if you were interested in talking to your doctor about it, it shows how to determine the degree of plagio, brachio or cranio (other types of the same thing) and when to make a referral. Your doctor cannot diagnose it, but can and has to make a referral to someone who can diagnose it if the parent is concerned.

You can search for a physician who you can get a referral to on this website as well, so instead of telling the doctor you want a referral you can say "I want a referral to this doctor at this clinic" so you know you'll be getting someone experienced in it.

Most nurses and doctors won't even point it out because it's kind of hard to say "there's something wrong with the shape of your childs' head",so until we can further awareness and education on it (There's a pretty big group of us plagio moms working with Cranial Tech fighting to further education on plagio across Canada and America) it's up to you to be educated on it, and up to you to work to prevent it.

http://www.petitiononline.com/0799/petition.html This petition is for the American Academy of Pediatrics to try and give better information and awareness concerning plagiocephaly to new mothers leaving the hospital, as well as education to most doctors about it so that it can be caught earlier (almost every doctor I talked to was like, "plagio wha huh??") They're pretty ignorant about the subject (hence the fact that they're not qualified enough to make a proper diagnosis)

http://www.plagiocephaly.info/ Go here for a good resource of information on the types of plagiocephaly, how to prevent it, etc

http://www.cranialtech.com Cranial Tech is the producer of the custom head bands that most parents use for corrective devicing. They're actually very informative and very active in trying to help get the awareness out there to prevent plagio. They're the company that sent me a huge box of information resources to hand out to new mothers for free.

http://www.plagiocephaly.org You can search for a qualified pediatrician with experience in this area on this website, search by location to find one near you.

http://www.cappskids.org/CAPPSPlagioHandout.PDF A great handout explaining all aspects of plagiocephaly.

http://www.cappskids.org/CAPPSPlagioPreventionHandout.PDF A great handout on how to prevent it.

That way you won't be stuck in the situation I'm in, having to decide between leaving it and causing problems later or spending 3000$ trying to fix it.

Enjoy, and remember, proper education is the key and is your responsibility when the resources and awareness aren't available to you by doctors and nurses. It's up to you to notice it and get things done about it, and it's up to you to prevent it in the first place.

[jerseygirl07067]

I've always been curious about this. I am aware of positional plagiocephaly. I often used the carseat with Sammy because it's the only way she would sleep sometimes. I was always checking her head and making sure she wasn't developing a flat spot. To make up for my excessive car seat use, I often put her in different positions when she was awake so she wouldn't keep having pressure on the same spot. That included avoiding always being flat on her back too. I would often position her on her side and belly, when I was able to observe her, or carry her in the Bjorn, or just carry her.

So, How is the carseat different from laying flat in the stroller? Call me dense on this one, but I don't see the difference, other than the fact that it's a slightly harder surface.

Marcy

[tiapam]

I agree! Until recently, I used a car seat carrier for car trips. I use a Graco with full recline for neighborhood walks. I never use it with the car seat now, but I often did when she was smaller. DD's head is fine. I think it's not just the car seat, but also bouncy chairs and putting babies on their back to sleep. I know the sleep position is for every parent to decide for themselves. But I have heard that the back to sleep movement might also be causing the flat head problem.

No flames please. Just reporting my experience and my opinions.

-Pam

Charlotte born October 2004

[DAKnits]

Yes, a flat head can develop from too much time on the back of the head from any and all of those things (bouncy, swing, sleeping in same position etc..). So I think that when you can avoid putting your baby in a position that can't be changed, you should. But like I said, everyone makes their own choices, the point is to be educated and have the information out there so that the people who would act differently after having the information are given that choice.

Another problem with the car seat is the angle of the neck -- it is a bad angle for the neck to be in, especially for the neck muscle development. It was one of the things I was informed about when my daughter was diagnosed with toricollis (a condition she was born with). In any event, a stroller has more room for you to position your babies neck, head, and body, and allows you to change the baby's position from flat on the back, to the side, and allows you to change the angle of the neck by changing the level of recline. So it gives you lots of options.

Everyone will do what they please, but it should at least be based on being informed, so I think Dr's and hospitals should be talking about it.

[sbeck212]

It's not that lying flat doesn't cause positional plagiocephaly as well. The issue with car seats id that the baby is constantly in a "scruched" position without the ability to have full ung expansion adn with additional abdominal pressure. I work in NYC in a pediatric practice and I caution all my parents to use the car seat for car travel and usae a regularstroller for walking, etc.

Why has it become such a trend for ppl to walk around with their children in carseats all day when there are so many better otpions out there ?

Jordana (RN, PNP)
Mom of
Daniel 5/17/02
Jacob 4/9/04
Zachary 4/9/04

[hobokenmom]

I live in Hoboken, NJ, which is a town where everyone WALKS everywhere, and I see so many moms using snap n gos. I honestly can see their use if you live in the burbs and you're in and out of the car, running errands, but this is not the case here in Hoboken.

One of my best friends is driving me nuts. Not only is she leaving her baby in an infant car seat all day (in a snap n go), and the poor baby is all scrunched up with her neck squished to the side, BUT she isn't strapping the baby in because she says the baby cries every time she puts the straps on. Of course, she puts the straps on when they ride in the car.

I've told her to strap that baby in, as I know someone else who recently had her 4 month old in a Graco Metrolite struck by a turning car. Luckily the baby wasn't injured at all because she was well-strapped in.

This is my friend's fourth child, and I can't possibly understand why she doesn't buy a used p3, pliko, milano, anything to use for these first few months.

I have to laugh because she thinks I'm nuts because I'll leave my 8 year old at home for 5-10 minutes while I run across the street to the dry cleaner, and she doesn't even strap her baby into the carseat.

Okay, I'm done ranting. We all make choices for our children and do the best we can as parents, but she's my law-school educated friend and she should know better.

[hobokenmom]

they don't spend too much time in any particular position or in any particular apparatus.

It's the same thing with exersaucers. Some say that they aren't good for baby's hips/legs and should be used for only short periods of time.

[writeleigh]

I have heard this, but not from my doctor. I didn't use a travel system or car seat in my stroller (except for one or two very rare occasions). I was into wearing Liam in a sling, so I usually did that instead and/or just put him in the stroller the regular way (no car seat).

[new_mommy25]

Get a P3! The carseat will go in if you need it, but the full recline is great without it. Ours has held up to 2 years of abuse and is still in excellent condition.

[pipers mom]

Forgive me for being completely lost and uneducated, but I am not sure what the alternative to a stroller with a car seat is. I am expecting my first baby in November and working on my baby registry and as you can see, need help.

Are you saying that instead of using your car seat in a stroller (TS) to do errands and walk around town to just use the stroller in a fully reclined position???? Is this safe for a newborn and at what point would you incline the seat. Do you have to worry about thier airway??? Like I said I know nothing so please,.......... enlighten me!!!!!!!!!!

Lost in Colorado

[DAKnits]

please check your email!

[DAKnits]

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/julyskullqa.htm

[DAKnits]

BUMPING due to # of posts regarding asking about exclusive use of the carseat in a snap-n-go or a travel system ....

[hardysmom]

As the mom of a child with plagio (Blythe went through 2 helmets from 3-9 months) and an old-timer on the stroller boards, I felt a need to jump in...

It isn't just the carseats causing plagio... it is the overall lack of tummy-time. I mean, if you NEVER use a carseat, but your child frequently takes naps in a swing and/or bouncy, you might as well keep Baby in a snap n go all day long.

It isn't a good idea to leave a child in a carseat when other options are available. That said, sometimes a parent of an infant with reflux will be told to let the baby sleep in a carseat, etc... you just have to weigh the pros and cons and make an educated choice for your family. The important thing, more important than the length of time in the carrier, is the position of the child when OUT of the carrier.

If a baby is spending excessive time in a carseat the parent needs to compensate with more tummy time/repositioning. Yeah, I know, babies hate tummy time. Trust me, baby will like tummy time much better than you all will like the x-rays/CT Scans necessary to diagnose plagio, the stressful insurance appeals to pay for a $2500 helmet, and the multi-hour drives to the closest Cranial Technologies office for your weekly helmet adjustment. They wear the helmets 23/7, usually for 3-6 months... it isn't fun.

My daughter (a twin) was born with a crazy headshape that no amount of repositioning would have changed, but she was one of a tiny minority. Most of the parents we met on that journey REALLY wished they had known that depending on a carseat/bouncy/swing, particularly during the first 4-5 months could have unintended consequences. Usually, by the time they find out that they aren't doing enough tummy-time, it is too late.

Stephanie
Hardy
Blythe and Charlotte

[KW_102701]

No, my Drs. (plural - we've been in 3 different practices, 2 of which were when DD was an infant) have never mentioned it, but then again, they don't mention lots of things - that's why I do my own research and educate myself on issues important to my DD's health. Incidentally, flat head syndrome is on the rise due not just to carseats but also to the 'back to sleep' campaign.

I did/do know that it's not a good idea for infants to be in their carseats for extended periods of time and in fact, never put my DD's SnugRide in our Zippy when she was an infant. However, now that I'm having a winter baby, I can see myself relying on the carseat a little more for running errands - just so that baby can stay warm and under the polartec 'shower cap' Call me crazy, but I don't think my DC is going to need a helmet just because I run errands w/her in the carseat on occasion. Obviously, for long walks or major outings (which we won't be doing much of in the dead of winter this year w/DC #2), I don't think it's prudent to put an infant seat in a stroller, but for running quick errands or getting DC from point A to point B when it's snowing/raining/windy, etc., it's quite practical.

[quartzlynn]

When are you supposed to begin tummy time? DD will be three weeks Sunday and I am wondering if its time to start? Any suggestions for comfortable ways to introduce it??

[VGL]

One thing I noticed when looking for a stroller for my pregnant niece is that many of the less expensive strollers don't have a full recline so they're not suitable for an infant. Now my niece is a young mom with a limited budget and as much as she liked the strollers with the full recline, she couldn't afford it. She ended up getting a stroller from a friend of her mom's. But not everyone has friends that are done with strollers or internet access to things like strollerSWAP, e-bay and craigslist where you can find deals on used strollers.

[clc053103]

I am just impressed the your doctor spent that much time with you to discuss the topic!! Don't lose him/her!!

My DS did not like being directly in the stroller for the first month. You can't swaddle if using the harness (a swaddle me was out of the question for him) and I guess he was just more comfortable in the coziness of the car seat. Now I go directly in the stroller for anything beyond quick trips.

I spend a lot of time walking in the beach town where my mother lives. I get very nervous since people do run red lights etc. I used the car seat in the stoller, thinking DS would be safer if we were ever struck by a car.

ARe there any studies on safety of an infant involved in an accident in the car seat / stroller combo, vs. being properly harnessed directly in the stroller?

[pittsburghgirl]

There have been some great points made here. I think some people do actually think they are supposed to put the newborn in the car seat/TS stroller rather than take the baby out of the car seat for longer walks or long mall visits. The point about non-reversible handle strollers is a good one, as well. I know that when my DS was a newborn, I did enjoy seeing him when he was in his Snugride in my Zooper ZStreet.

My ped never said anything about it; and I know that they sometimes recommend the sleeping in the car seat thing for babies with reflux. My DS was a January baby and I probably used the Snugride more than I should have in the mall and the like - I didn't know any better. I did get a Zooper Buddy for neighborhood walks by the time spring came, so any long walks we did were in the regular stroller.

Almost everyone around here gets a TS rather than any of the higher-end strollers. I can't tell you the number of older babies I've seen in the Snugride, holding their own bottles as their moms stroll around the mall.

Marilee
mommy to James
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040120/1/1/1/-5/.png

[nov04]

oops, I already answered this

[Joolsplus2]

I can't help but notice that most of the young boys I see nowdays (can't tell with the girls, they usually have long hair) have awfully funny-looking flat heads. At first I noticed it with one baby in my playgroup, and thought he was still misshapen from his mother's 36 hours of labor before a c-section...but I started to notice it in more and more kids...
I took the risk of putting my kids to sleep on their sides, since they were breastfed and no one smoked around them, I figured their risks of SIDS was so low I could put them on their sides on their FIRM crib mattresses...boy, those things are like granite!..and they both have nice round heads and flat ears (put them on a different side every time, lol...I know the ears thing probably has nothing to do with it...that's genetic, right? ;) )
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[Joolsplus2]

No, but given how babies have been known to fly out of cars and across entire freeways in their car seats (not buckled into the car.....), and survive without a scratch, I think your reasoning is sound (that the infant seat is safer to be buckled into than just a stroller on a very trafficky street).
Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[hardysmom]

sorry so long to reply...

The earlier you start the better. So far as headshape goes, the first 5 months are critical. Once baby is sitting up (even supported), using excersaucers, isn't fully reclined in the stroller, etc the risk decreases. Most people who have a shape problem notice it by 2-4 months, but often doctors discount it until later (9-12 mo) when it is clear that it isn't going to fully "round out" and, unfortunately, treatment isn't as effective.

Remember that most everyone slept on their tummies before the 1990, so disliking a prone position is just a learned thing, not true discomfort. Todays babies just don't have the same neck/torso strength b/c they don't have to lift their heads to look around.

A lot of people think of tummy time as the baby on the floor/prone on a boppy, but it doesn't have to be that way... Basically, any time that baby spends off their back counts as tummy time. With a young infant, a nice way to begin is to just lay on the floor with baby facing you on your chest. Everybody likes that position.

I was told to aim for a total of at least 2 hours of tummy time a day. Again, that counts all the time baby isn't laying on their backs with their head against a firm surface (which includes time in carseats, swings, bouncy seats, time in cribs, etc) you can count as tummy time time spent in a bjorn style carrier, time being held, laying on your chest, nursing, etc.)

Stephanie

[funda62]

So what if you take long car trips, commute more than an hour a day with baby, or fly long trips regularly? I'm asking because I don't see how an extra hour a week in the TS at the mall is going to have a huge effect on baby when they are already in their car seat so much of the time. Not trying to dispute the doctors or knowledgeable people, just genuially curious.

I have seen this condition in one infant of a close friend. She had two boys 10 months apart and felt like the only way she could cope and get all the houseweork done was to keep the infant in the carrier most of the day. I can see how that would cause it, but not the ocassional extra hour or two a week in the car seat in conjunction with a stroller.

[Aunt to sweet baby boy]

I think it is not the occasional hour or two in an infant carrier it is the children that are in the carseat all the time. Like if the parents wake up, feed the baby in the bouncy chair, take the baby out in the carseat and then transfer the carseat into the stroller, keep baby in the carseat to eat a bottle, go home put baby into a swing, bouncy chair etc.

I think occasional use of anything is fine, it is the overuse that causes bad results. If you take your dc out one day and they have a cold and you finally got them to sleep in the car and you then leave them in their infant carrier for an hour while you are out they will be ok. If you overuse these "convenice items" you will pay a price.

If you generally do not keep your dc in an infant carrier for extended periods of time they will be fine, it is the overuse that causes negative effects.

Ilana and her dn avi who is almost 1!!! 10-5-04

[hudsonam]

Can't babies get a flat spot on their heads from lying in a stroller too? My son didn't like the P3 in the full recline position when he was a newborn, so we used the SNG and his infant seat for the first few months. I would have liked to get a stroller that could face me, but it wasn't in the budget at the time (the P3 was a gift, and deeply discounted). I'm just curious if the flat spot wouldn't be a problem in any stroller. I know my son always had his head turned the same way no matter where he was laying, and I worried about him getting a flat spot, but luckily he's fine. I can see how it could cause problems for their neck though.

[DAKnits]

In a stroller, you can reposition your baby's head in many positions, and like you said, the neck problems are solved by using the stroller. OF course, too much time on their back, regardless of whether it's in the stroller, swing, bouncy chair etc..., contributes to the rising number of babies with of plagiocephaly and torticollis. Remember that when we were kids, most of these baby gear items didn't exist (there were no carseats that went into strollers or could be detached to take in and out of places, no swings or bouncy chairs that had vibrating seats and toy bars to keep babies entertained ... I think we were held much more than babies are today with all of the conveniences on the market).

It's really tragic that Doctor's aren't warning their patients, and that stroller companies are making money off of the lack of education by the medical community. But the stroller companies are not going to tell women the consequences of their products or issue warnings b/c it will effect their back pockets. Thankfully, the hospital where I gave birth is now giving classes specifically addressing this issue, but most people aren't told any of this.

[2boysluvand1]

Hi there, I agree with most of what you said, however I was born in 1971 and there are plenty of pictures of me in the swing and some cheesey little plastic seat (looks like a bouncy that doesn't bounce). I personally love my baby bjorn and plan on a sling with #3! Just thought I would share :-)

Kate

[Joolsplus2]

I had a bouncy seat that LOOKED like it was made of crocheted yarn...but only a picture of our Yorkie in it, not me! The pictures of me are mostly on blankets laid out on concrete on my tummy, getting a tan... gee, thanks mom :/
Still, the heavy duty marketing forces playing on mothers' fears of "never wake a sleeping baby!" weren't in full swing yet... I skipped the infant seat with my first baby (1997), figuring being carried more would encourage his motor development (I don't think it did, but he loved to be held, anyway, and I learned to eat every restaurant meal with one hand :D)


Julie CPS Tech and mom to 2 in seats
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum/SarahMA.aspx

[funda62]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. With DD we did not use an infant carseat (used convertiable) or stroller (used snugli until she was a year). We also didn't own a swing, bouncy chair etc.

I was concerned because I am considering purchasing a stroller which can only be used by infants when they are in an infant car seat.

[KBecks]

No, but my Dr. said to make sure we turned DS's head in a different direction at each nap and night. She was very adamant about that.

She may have mentioned not spending a lot of time in carseats / bouncy chairs / swings, but she never told me what I should or should not use for a stroller.

[tiapam]

I have not read the other replies. Something keeps bothering me about this issue. If a parent is out with a baby in the car seat in a stroller or carrier, *why* is the baby left in for such long periods of time? I just don't get it. We keep talking about the gear (and some of these posts really make this stuff sound evil) like it's causing the problem, when it looks more like operator error to me. I am sure those of you who have been through this will reply, but if you look at other posts on this topic, they all mention the "long periods of time".

FWIW, I don't remember any of the doctors mentioning this to me. DD has not had problems with this, but she had lots of tummy time, and slept on her tummy before three months.

[tiapam]

No, I didn't think I had to use the carseat, but sometimes I did just because I wanted to. I had a car seat cover and it was a lot easier to get DD in and out of the carseat than her snowsuit. Her stroller/carseat combo also had a great sunshade. Getting out was difficult enough for me that every little thing helped. A few times she was in her carseat because we were just in the car, and went for a walk straight from the garage.

Personally, I don't spend too much time wondering about stranger's choices, since I don't know much about them. There could be a reason for this woman to do this, it's just something you don't know. Maybe she is trying to keep the toddler from waking or hitting the baby.

-Pam

Charlotte born October 2004

[hardysmom]

I think early parenthood can be so tough that sometimes people do what they have to, just to stay sane. A lot of babies are very comfy in their carseats and if baby is happy, everyone is happy (particularly after 8 weeks on 3 hours of sleep a night, lol).

Anyway, if you have one of those kids who loves to be in the seat (or bouncy or swing) and who cries when taken out, it is easy to follow the path of least resistance and leave the baby in the seat. I don't think it is necessarily about laziness, just practicality. No one wants to wake a sleeping baby!

A lot of people also tend to go from the crib to the bouncy to the swing to the carseat and back to the crib without realizing that the issue is a lack of tummy time and overuse of ALL gear.

One of my twin daughters was born with a mis-shapen head due to her in utero position. We wore a helmet for 6 mo and met a TON of helmeted kids with postional plagiocephaly...

Stephanie

[wagner36]

I can't agree with this more. Instead of just saying what you shouldn't do, I think it is important to things you CAN do. We started tummy time the day Charlie came home from the hospital. Tummy time was an essential part of the "Back to Sleep" campaign, but most people overlook it.

[DAKnits]

Here are some links for those of you who want to read some more information ... for me, the most important thing is that we are all informed ... then whatever choice we make is an informed one!

I am glad that everyone here is at least reading about the possibility of problems associated with over-using baby gear that puts pressure on the back of the head. It can't hurt to be aware of it!

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/julyskullqa.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1526517.stm

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/110/2/401

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/108/3/647?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&titleabstract=breathing+car+seat&searchid=1029855460808_2936&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=pediatrics

[wagner36]

Thanks, but aren't these the same ones you've posted elsewhere in this thread?

I'm assuming these weren't directed at me, although a reply to my post, since my post only related to tummy time. My son is two, and has a lovely head shape.

[duefeb5]

Can you enlighten me? What is a P3??? I am a newbie in the world of strollers/joggers - well, everything!!!

Our first baby is on the way in February, and we are trying to make a decision about a car seat/stroller/etc... I am fortunate to have the pram my parents used with me many years ago - so what else do I need???

Thanks!

-duefeb5