New policy- No free formula from my hospital! [Archive] - Baby Bargains & Baby 411 Community

lizajane

02-18-2004, 04:48 PM

i'm sorry!! but i have to agree with other posters! i know you are SO annoyed. but i just can't help myself-

giving away formula is like saying, "here is something to feed your baby when you realize you ARE a failure and you DO want to give up breastfeeding because it isn't fun for the first FEW weeks even though it is a WHOLE lot easier in the long run." it is almost a trick to me. they dangle the carrot for the women who have trouble, so that they will easily concede. "well, gosh, i already have some in the house... might as well give him some... well, gosh, that sure was easy... i am not thinking about the hundreds of dollars i WILL spend on this stuff if i give up breastfeeding, because right now it is just as free as my own milk..."

i just gave away my third and final bottle/can of formula that i got free when schuyler was born. never touched any of it. kept it in case of emergency for 11 months. next time, i will give it away the first opportunity i get.

but i am sorry to "disagree" with your "bitching!" you do have the right to be annoyed!!!

caleymama

02-18-2004, 04:57 PM

I gave birth in VA and received no formula at the hospital (not even a free diaper bag!). The nurses and doctors knew I was breastfeeding and it went well from the start, so I don't know if that impacted what I received. I also received nothing at our doctor's office. We used a family practicioner rather than a ped, though, so again I don't know if that impacted what we received. Formula was actually never mentioned by anyone at the hospital or the doctor's office. I did, however, sign up with both Similac and Enfamil and did receive several cans and tons of coupons by mail.

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-18-2004, 05:16 PM

We actually rejected the formula that they offered...and i'll tell you why, it is typically the more expensive formulas that they push on you and then evidently your baby has to have that formula since that is what they want....

So by giving it to you can actually cost you tons!!!!
We use Costco brands Kirkland and have had no problems with it...it has DHA/ARA and I know has saved us 50% in the cost of formula. Don't get me wrong money is no object when it comes to my baby, but it is the same make up of the more expensive brands and they show the break downs right there on the container proving it...

I heard about Kirklands here on the boards and never would have thought of it had I not...

I think this a good thing...the marketing of products and luring you in at the hospital level does bug me some...

Why I took the diaper bag I'll never know...
Tristan is a huge drinker...he drinks in 2 hours what I see some drink in 8-10 but when I had him I signed on to the expense of having him and this is a drop in the bucket to what's a head I am certain :)...
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

stillplayswithbarbies

02-18-2004, 05:16 PM

awesome! kudos to your hospital. I hope it is indeed a trend with all hospitals.

I wish La Leche League or some other organization could afford to give away free diaper bags with items that will help breastfeeding, instead of free formula that sabotages it.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

JElaineB

02-18-2004, 06:13 PM

At my hospital they asked ahead of time if you were going to breastfeed or formula feed, and depending on your answer you got a "breastfeeding" diaper bag or a "formula-feeding" diaper bag. I got the breastfeeding bag, so my diaper bag didn't have any formula samples in it. It was a yellow rounded bag from Enfamil, called the "breastfeeding success bag". It had a smaller cooler bag with ice packs with tips on storing breast milk. I liked the look of the formula bag better though, it was rectangular. Of course the first food my DS got was formula in the hospital, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

suribear

02-18-2004, 06:47 PM

Neve is right. They give you the pre-mixed formula (which is more expensive) in the hopes that your child will prefer it.

Kris

pamela mom of 3

02-18-2004, 07:15 PM

Well i suppose my thoughts are that hospitals shouldn't bother or at the very least offer seperate choices for BF & Bottle F mums, as it's a touchy subject all around ;)

JMO

~Pamela Mom Of 3

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/kao/otn/blobflower.gif

Melanie

02-18-2004, 07:58 PM

That's great, but they probably shouldn't be giving out the bags then. I would think the formula companies might get a bit ticked to find out the hospitals are takeing their freebies and ditching the cash-cow part of it.

I'm glad though...it really does cause problems with breastfeeding. had I not that bottle four-pack in my kitchen at 3 am when I was in excruciating pain and my little guy screaming he probably would not have ever gotten any at that tender age. Even one drop of formula disrupts their gut flora. I did also get a ton in the mail, too. That useless HMO maternity program must have sold my name. If anything like that happens next time I'm just going to write 'return to sender' on it.

nathansmom

02-18-2004, 09:09 PM

My hospital offered a breastfeeding bag or a formual bag. The bf bag was full of stuff for breastfeeding and was a donated bag from the gift shop, no signs of formula on it. I like this idea.
I don't like the idea that if someone is formula feeding that they can't get free formula. I'm all for supporting and encourging breastfeeding but what about ladies who can't bf for whatever reason.
edited to delete some words I thought were to harse

Melanie

02-18-2004, 09:15 PM

Now that's a wonderful idea! Something with breast pads, lanisoh, maybe a la leche league brochure w/ numbers...you don't need a lot for BFing do you...LOL. What was in it?

JMarie

02-18-2004, 09:30 PM

EXACTLY Norah! I just exited out of my original post because I thought it too harsh, but this really gets me steamed. I could not BF - neither could my mom or sister - and those free samples were just a godsend. I brought home both pre-mixed and powder and have been able to use them interchangably ever since. The free samples also REALLY saved me a lot of money!

No where is it written you have to accept the handouts. If you're certain you don't want them and don't even want the temptation, tell your OB and nurses not to offer them at all. Better yet, tell the LC's. I found phenomenal support in the hospital staff for my situation, and I couldn't imagine them not supporting someone in the opposite situation.

Jennifer
Mom to Aidan Christopher
01/28/03

caleymama

02-18-2004, 09:34 PM

I think a bf bag is a wonderful idea for new moms who are nursing as an alternative to a bag with formula for those that will be formula feeding.

Imperia

02-18-2004, 09:34 PM

I know it's disappointing not to get freebies, but it makes sense in regards to the study. Isn't it kind of like a cigarette company saying, "Well, we know you are trying to quit smoking, but here is a free pack of cigarettes in case you can't"????? I mean, honestly, thety aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Most Lactation consultants will reccomend if you are breast feeding you NEVER keep formula around because it's so easy to just "give in" and give that first bottle of formula which leads to decreased milk supply (milk supply is based on how much your baby actually sucks at the breast--supply and demand) which leads to more formula! The formula companies know this.

I will say I liked the free bag I got from the hospital, it even had cold packs for helping to store EBM, but it did have formula in it...you can have mine if you really want it: we won't be using it.

Imperia

toomanystrollers

02-18-2004, 10:15 PM

My hospital also gave out either bf friendly bags or formula bags.

As for free formula, always ask your ped. for samples everytime you go - a tip from my pharmaceutical rep. GF. You should see the closet of samples at our ped.'s office - they're loaded with stuff :)

Kimberly H

02-18-2004, 11:43 PM

Have to say I agree with the original poster as I was physically unable to breastfeed and even if it was my CHOICE not to nurse my child, why do others get to decide whether I need formula or not based on their own values and decisions?

Does this mean they will start only using cloth diapers in hospitals because using a 'sposie might weaken someone's desire to use CDs?

If you're going to breastfeed and don't want the formula from the free formula-company-sponsored diaper bag, don't take it but don't tell me I can't have it if I want it.

Oh, and I'm a vehement supporter of being able to nurse in public even though I didn't. :)

Melanie

02-19-2004, 12:14 AM

>No where is it written you have to accept the handouts. If
>you're certain you don't want them and don't even want the
>temptation, tell your OB and nurses not to offer them at all.
>Better yet, tell the LC's. I found phenomenal support in the
>hospital staff for my situation, and I couldn't imagine them
>not supporting someone in the opposite situation.

In my case, it's not that they tried to be unsupportive, they just weren't. They didn't seem to know what they were doing in that dept. and only one nurse was an LC and she was on vacation. As for the bag, I was so exhausted and bleary-eyed that I was like "just add it to the pile." And there it stayed with the pile of hospital stuff on the table. Anyway, I do think it should be available at the hospital, but not given out to every mother along with the discharge papers. At the hospital where I delivered, Ds roomed in with me and never left my sight so the whole FF vs BF thing was never even brought up. They must have known b/c they never brought bottles, I think it was just assumed. Kind of ironic, that it was assumed yet they were untrained and handed out formula.

Anyway, I am glad to read that hospitals are starting to customize the freebie bags.

C99

02-19-2004, 01:35 AM

I don't think that a hospital's decision to not give away formula to post-partum mothers takes away a mother's decision to breastfeed or formula-feed her baby.

FWIW, I didn't get formula samples (or diaper bag) from any medical organization during my pregnancy or since then. Not from the hospital, and not from my OB-GYN, and not from either of these organizations putting my name on a mailing list from the formula companies.

DDowning

02-19-2004, 01:48 AM

Well said Kimberly, I couldn't have agreed with you more! To each their own as far as their values and decisions. In my case, the first night I was so knocked up from all of the narcotics in my system from the c-section, there's no way I was able to bf let alone think straight without puking (sorry TMI) every 5 minutes. I had no problem with them giving DS formula while there. The next day, he latched on with no problem so the issue of drop of formula screwing up their system didn't apply to us.

Melanie

02-19-2004, 01:58 AM

"The next day, he latched on with no problem so the issue of drop of formula screwing up their system didn't apply to us."

I wasn't referring to it automatically causing latch problems...it has to do with the natural balance of intestinal flora.

http://www.massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html

I'm glad you are happy the nurses cared for your infant while you were ill, my point was back to the original ones to suport that yes, the free formula did affect us negatively.

DDowning

02-19-2004, 02:20 AM

Melanie - Thanks for the post. I guess I was trying to convey that I was appreciative of an option to me when I wasn't quite up to the task myself.

tarahsolazy

02-19-2004, 03:55 AM

This policy may have to do with the WHO Baby Friendly Hospital initiative. I think that to qualify as a baby-friendly hospital you cannot give out free formula, since the initiative is very pro-breastfeeding. Although I thought even the free bags were verboten, so maybe I'm wrong. I have already gotten 2 sample cans of formula in the mail, one Similac, one Enfamil, and both came with $5 off cupons. I think I'll donate the formula to the food bank, as having it around might not be a good idea in the first few weeks, as I really want to make breastfeeding work. However, I agree that you should ask your doctor about samples, and ask at the hospital, too. I bet you can score some! I think BRU sold my name, which prompted the samples I got. Open up a baby registry, even if you leave it empty, and I bet you'll get the same samples.

ethansmom

02-19-2004, 06:55 AM

I BF but always asked for samples at each ped visit; the nurses would often give me 2 cans! I then gave them to a friend who adopted and an in-law who FF and is lower-income....not low enough to receive free formula.

Kimberly H

02-19-2004, 07:41 AM

Deciding not to give formula to mothers doesn't take away their decision, but it can make them feel (again) that they don't love their children or want what's best for them, etc. "You can have this free diaper bag from the formula company, but not the formula because it might make you use it."

I do understand where having formula available when you're having trouble breastfeeding is a temptation to use it. I also think if you're accepting a free diaper bag from a formula company, you should expect formula to be inside.

wdland45

02-19-2004, 09:47 AM

Peasprout - I would have been disappointed too! Talk to your obgyn - they may still be giving out freebies to those who wish to supplement or formula feed. Good luck.
Danielle, Mom to Alex, 12.03.01 and Brian, 7.27.03

Rachels

02-19-2004, 09:57 AM

>Does this mean they will start only using cloth diapers in hospitals because using a 'sposie might weaken someone's desire to use CDs?<

I don't think this is the same thing at all. The hospital is responding to a health issue. Formula feeding has, over the last three decades, been REPEATEDLY linked to higher rates of childhood leukemia and Hodgkin's disease, lower IQs, higher rates of childhood obesity, higher rates of insulin-dependent diabetes, higher numbers of ear infections, higher rates of Chron's Disease, higher rates of breast cancer for baby girls later in their lives, higher rates of allergies, increased risk for asthma, increased risk for SIDS, more diarrheal infections, and more respiratory infections. Additionally, mothers who don't breastfeed are at increased risk for breast, endometrial, and ovarian cancers, are more likely to require insulin for adult-onset diabetes, and are more likely to develop osteoporosis.

Formula is a good choice for the estimated 1% of women who truly are physically unable to breastfeed and for many adoptive parents. Many women, though, stop nursing or don't nurse when the problem would have been resolvable with proper support-- something we simply aren't providing very well to new moms in this country. And I'm well aware that FF is a choice many, many other women make in the US in particular.

But for a hospital to make steps toward helping insure that women and babies will nurse is a health move. The research on this is real. Lots of babies who formula feed will be just fine, of course, but a statistically significant number of them will have some of the serious health complications named above. This has been demonstrated over and over and over.

I hesitated to post this, because there seems to be a sense that it's rude to talk about this, but to me it sounds like suggesting that it's rude to talk about how deli meats carry listeriosis or how cigarettes are carcinogenic. Personally, I WANT to know about research that may affect the choices I make. I'm still free to make choices. I was really nervous through my pregnancy that I would hate breastfeeding, but reading that kind of stuff convinced me to do it anyway. And it was very hard in the beginning, but it is something I now really treasure. I'm glad nobody handed me cans of formula when I was struggling.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

sntm

02-19-2004, 10:19 AM

I think it's only an issue because they USED to give free samples, so people expect it. Nobody expects a free Hanna outfit or a free bottle of baby tylenol or whatever, so nobody minds when they don't get it.

I think it is reasonable, since it is a health issue. To make an analogy, if someone came to see me because they had reflux and asked for "the purple pill" or whatever, I wouldn't give them free samples of the drug (that is very expensive) if I didn't think it was the best drug for them. They may choose to disregard my advice and get the drug over the counter or from another doctor, but for me to give them the drug would be wrong.

The vast majority of women who FF are not incapable of breastfeeding; if the only women who FF did so for medical reasons, I think the policy would be less reasonable.

I do believe that this is also part of the WHO baby-friendly initiative, as a previous poster said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

sntm

02-19-2004, 10:24 AM

Great point, Neve -- the nutritional value of all formulas (of the same type -- cow's milk, soy, with DHA/ARA, etc) is essentially the same. The higher cost formulas are usually just "brand name" recognition. In rare instances, there are problems with cutting corners in how they formulate the powder (like the sad cases in Israel a few months ago), but those are the exception. Some babies may prefer one to the other, but it's more a taste, etc. issue than a nutritional issue. At least start with the cheaper ones and work your way up.

Same goes for over-the-counter medications. I always buy generic meds -- no reason to pay more for the brand name because they have the same active ingredients -- the drug molecules are identical! My only exception is baby Motrin, because I like that it is dye-free. And when that happens with the generic, I'll switch.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

Momof3Labs

02-19-2004, 11:09 AM

Motherhood sold my name to formula companies, too - all of their crazy different spelling variations!!

stillplayswithbarbies

02-19-2004, 11:49 AM

babies don't need formula that first day. Mother Nature has designed things so that (full term) babies are born with enough fat to carry them through until their mothers' milk comes in. The doctors/nurses who gave that formula were not very well educated about how breastfeeding works. (an unfortunately common situation)

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

nathansmom

02-19-2004, 12:10 PM

Kimberly-
Good point.

nathansmom

02-19-2004, 12:14 PM

I agree those free samples were a god send. If they ban formula from the hospitals I guess we will have to buy formula to bring to the hospital with us and hope our baby can use the one we picked.

Jenn- Glad to see I'm not the only one who gets steamed. Sometimes I feel like some people here must think I'm not a good mother cause I didn't bf. I leave the boards and cry sometimes.

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 12:17 PM

FORMULA WAS A GREAT THING FOR US WHETHER WE FIT INTO THAT 1% OF NOT...
People don't need to feel like they are getting a 'stamp" of approval from anyone on these boards...sometimes I get the feeling that people think they have the authority to say "good parneting" as if they have the authority to do so. There is not one person NOT ONE on these boards who is parenting their child any better than I parent mine...I can assure you of that!!! I also don't think one is parenting their child any worse but when you've had DRs question your parenting (your post said one did..atleast one in the past) none of us chimed in...everyone supported you, why becasue you are confident in what you do and should be you apprear to be an excellent mother...well many of us are confident in what we do...so PLEASE I beg you stop the scare tactics they are not enjoyed...

You didn't like a GI saying you were doing something wrong...and I don't think people need to hear non stop all of this stuff...

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!
I am as supportive as can be to anyone and how they chose to feed their child in this community (maybe not in the world if they feed them dog food or soemthing- but here) and I am not alone I can assure you in being sick and tired of this crap...if formula feeding was such the devil then why would it be approved...please stop it with this 1% and let folks come to this community and not have to question what they do...I for one am sick of it...

But when BF moms have troubles and are upset, frustrated or going thru the struggles of weaning no one burst out their thoughts on any trauma it can produce everyone is supportive...Please I beg you make this an inclusive community we don't need divides in it...

Please I enjoy this community but this non stop trying to make people feel bad about their parentng choices is enough to make me pack my bags of this...

There are many message boards at your finger tips to hurt those with different parenting styles...please leave the baby bargains one out of it!!!

I think you have every right to cheer lead folks on but the repeated scare "studies" is awful....

I mean if my son were to get leukemia one day I certainly don't need to live with the thought of someone here telling me that my choices effected that. I belive hardly any of the studies that are rattled off all the time anyway...
PLEASE......I HONEST TO GOD AT THIS POINT AM BEGGING YOU...

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

nathansmom

02-19-2004, 12:21 PM

Thanks again for pointing out all the things I've done to damage Nathan. I needed that again first thing this morning.

cinrein

02-19-2004, 12:34 PM

I didn't get much free formula from the hospital either. I think all I got was 4 bottles of ready-to-feed formula. The big canisters came in the mail and I got some at baby classes I took here and there.

I am still nursing Anna and she did not have any formula until she was about 10 mos old. Those free cans sat in her closet all that time. I was committed to BFing and despite some very difficult issues, I never once felt "tempted" by the forumula cans. I liked having them as backup because I always worried that something would happen to me (car accident or even a delay getting home) and there might not be enough EBM stashed in the freezer to get Anna through. I finally used the forumula to "teach" Anna to drink milk from a sippy cup. She could drink water, but when I switched to EBM she acted like she didn't know milk could come from a sippy. After dumping many ounces of EBM down the drain cuz she didn't drink it from a cup, I thought it best to teach her with the free formula. If I'm blessed enough to have another child, I would want the formula cans as a back up again.

I'm so sorry this thread has taken the tone that it has. We all try so hard to do what's best for our kids. I just hate when someone is made to feel that they didn't do good enough.

Cindy and Anna 2/11/03

pamela mom of 3

02-19-2004, 12:50 PM

I gotta agree Neve, i really chose to stay out of this topic because i REALY, REALLY believe it is a mothers right to CHOOSE what works best for her, i am all for BF in public and support to help women with BF but I DO NOT as someone who chose for my own personal reasons to bottle feed all 3 of my children like the since i did this my children could have___________ lines of talk.

I honestly don't see how it helps anybody out, other than to bash bottle feeding mums and make them feel like they have harmed their children.

As i said in my first post on the free formula, i think hospitals should stay out of the "give aways" that lean one way or the other in regards to feeding or at the very least have bags set up to the specific needs of BF & Bottle F mums, because just like how i fully understand how BF mums don't want formula info, Bottle F mums are not interested{at least i wasn't} in BF info etc...i made my choice, it was not because i wasn't in the know or had no clue.

I'm sorry i should really keep quiet but that studies bit really hit me, i mean i was very careful while PG and always have been & are still with my children my choice of method of feeding them was done with no less thought or carefulness.

~Pamela Mom Of 3

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/kao/otn/blobflower.gif

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 12:53 PM

...should have put in my signiture line
sign me sure to die of some if not all forms of the cancers mentioned above and having produced an offspring sure to die of some deadly disease mentioned above, or a dumb one at that...so from now on folks when I post a sweet picture of my son please just imagine him in a coffin since the above is obviously so true...him I get to look at my son now and think "uh oh he will die of leukemia...or is it post traumatic stress from the time he was left to cry in his car seat for 20 minutes while I was driving on a busy highway in the rain"...sure to not live the grand life of any other baby that is for sure, all becasue he was given formula...we know that now...

The doomed Neve and Tristan...

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 01:00 PM

I have to say the topic didn't bother me in the least, it was the post that has me convinced I will be dead soon of cancer...a nice painful one...and that my child will be dumb and in a hospital undergoing chemo and sure to die a young death...I honestly have to say it was only that post that got my panties in a wad...and many just like it from the past...
I am a cheerleader of women no matter their parenting style or other things in general!!!!!

Hugs to you,
Neve

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

hobey

02-19-2004, 01:02 PM

Thank you Neve for vocalizing what many of us FF moms feel and I avoid the feeding boards for this reason. I was unable to BF when Nathan was born and after several weeks of tears and meetings with several LCs, I made the decision to stop before full blown PPD set in. I felt that I could be a better parent by not being depressed, guilt-ridden, and crying all day. It was the right decision for my family and I stand by it 100%.

I admire all the parents who participate on these boards and I'm 100% confident that we are ALL doing awesome jobs raising our children regardless of the parenting choices we have made/will make.

Raquel
Nathan's Mom 12/19/03

Marisa6826

02-19-2004, 01:11 PM

Rachel-

I just read your post and am physically ill over it.

WHAT IS YOUR DEAL? Maybe I got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning but what right do you have to point your fingers that those of us that didn't breastfeed. What right do you have to tout your studies? The original post had nothing to do with this and it certainly wasn't about the devisiveness between breastfeeding and formula feeding. Studies are available for both sides of every coin.

I sat in my livingroom day after day, night after night CRYING over the fact that Sophie wasn't able to latch on and I couldn't perform as a "good mother".

If it wasn't for feeding her formula, she would have continued to say under the bili lights. She would have continued to lose weight and continued to NOT THRIVE. And like your daughter, mine is just as beautiful, intelligent, healthy and thriving. Courtesy of formula.

We have ALL stood behind you with your problems with Abby. The doctors, her reflux, etc. I have stood behind you through other difficulties on this board. When your were questioned by other posters here.

But enough is enough.

I do NOT come here to argue. I do NOT come here to read about nastiness or strife. This place is my solace. I do not expect to come here and be criticized by another woman about my choices as a parent.

So, please. Back off. Consider what you write and who your audience is before telling me that I am effectively abusing my daughter because of my choices.

And yes. It is rude to bring something like this up in the manner in which you did.

I am NOT attacking you. I am rebutting your thread. I respect you as a parent and as a woman. I will not, however, tolerate being told that my decisions are poor ones by someone who has not been in my shoes.

Getting off my soap box now.

-m

pamela mom of 3

02-19-2004, 01:26 PM

hmm no i know, the main topic didn't bother you, heck at the hospitals i was at they didn't give out anything lol

I just didn't like that we had to drag stats out on BF vs Bottle F this thread was supposed to be about how hospitals handle their give aways items, i was just saying i agree with you that we shouldn't get into the stats area...i guess i didn't get my thoughts across well...but i have one sick child and one very demanding 3yo while i'm trying to get out my words right..

:)

~Pamela Mom Of 3

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/kao/otn/blobflower.gif

stillplayswithbarbies

02-19-2004, 01:31 PM

>if formula feeding was such the devil then why would it
>be approved...

Because of the almighty dollar. Because formula manufacturers put pressure on government.

There is an ad campaign coming out that was supposed to say pretty much what Rachel said. It is an Ad Council ad, a public service type of thing. Sponsored by the government.

The formula companies are trying to stop this campaign. Why? because it will hurt their sales. They already are required by law to state that breastfeeding is best on all their literature. But they don't want an ad campaign that states the facts because an educated public will hurt their sales. (I am NOT saying people here are uneducated, if you made an educated choice to use formula knowing the risks then you are not the type of person this Ad Council campaign is targeting, and not the type of person I am talking about)

We all make choices in our parenting. Hopefully we make informed choices. How many of us chose not to get a car seat with an overhead shield because we were educated as to how that was not as safe? How many of us won't take our babies in an airplane because we don't believe it is safe? How many of us decide how our babies should sleep based on the research we do as to what is safe? How many of us choose to not eat things that can come through in breastmilk? And how many of us make the opposite choice because we have weighed the risks and made an educated choice that works for us?

We all make choices. Those choices should be educated choices. I have no problem with a person making an educated choice to formula feed. They know the risks and they choose to take those risks for their baby. Hopefully those risks are outweighed by a greater risk, such as the person who mentioned PPD, or someone who needs to take a medication that would harm the baby in breastmilk. It's all about choosing the path that has the least risk, in my opinion. If feeding your baby formula is less risky than the alternative, then that is a sign of a good parent in my opinion.

But the free formula in the hospital circumvents that educated thought process. Have you seen the "breastfeeding success" bags that the formula manufacturers provide in the hospital? I was shocked when I saw their chart on how to supplement with formula, that ended up with the baby totally weaned off breastmilk within 2 weeks. It's all about selling their product and to do that, they have to undermine the success of breastfeeding. And the free samples of formula are one way they do that. Giving out incorrect information about breastfeeding and calling it a "breastfeeding success" bag is another way. They know that breastfeeding is hard. They know that women, no matter how educated and committed to it, will reach a point where they will think about how easy it will be to give that bottle of formula. And they prey on that. It's manipulation, plain and simple.

Yes, I believe that formula should be available for people who need to use it. Absolutely. It has saved countless lives since wet-nurses are no longer en vogue.

But I don't believe that formula companies should be allowed to manipulate unsuspecting individuals into getting hooked on their product. Because let's face it, once you sabotage breastfeeding, you can't go back to it. Once you go down the formula path, you can't go back, the breastmilk is gone. And for those who are reading this and saying "I got the free formula and didn't get manipulated", good for you. I hope all the mothers who give birth are as educated and strong as you are. Sadly, they are not. Those type of women don't read books and internet boards.

It's like cigarettes being marketed to kids. Anyone remember the furor over that one? What the formula companies do to women who intend to breastfeed is just as bad. What the formula companies do to women who don't even realize that breastfeeding is a viable choice is just as bad. It's a public heath issue, and I am looking forward to the new ad campaign. I just hope that the formula companies in their quest for the almighty dollar are not successful in their attempt to quash the whole thing.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 01:31 PM

Oh I understood your post...I think I just wanted to make certain that our community didn't think I minded the thread and was sensitive to such things...it was only that statistical post and the "doom" of those kind of posts that had me upset...

But no you DID make yourself clear and I thank you for that :)...I think I was jsut trying to make certain I made myself clear to the community at large :)...
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 01:38 PM

I could give a doodly about the drama of sales etc... for formula...my days are filled with so much more than that...

I'm not even going to clarify my post it makes sense...and I spoke my thoughts...and it had nothing nothing nothing to do with the dramas of govt and the product etc...again I don't care a diddly about that...not for a second...

I said my little seconds thoughts on the hospital topic and even then don't really care about that...

I think it is obvious what upset me in my post so I am not even entertaining going off topic on that one...

Said respectfully by the way...

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

kransden

02-19-2004, 01:45 PM

My hospital gave out bf bags or formula bags by enfamil. The ob had them too. My ped also has formula. I loved my bf bag and used it all the time at work. I keep an extra diaper bag in my car so I always have wipes, a couple of diapers and a resale shop outfit no matter how crazy my life gets.

When dd was 3 mos, I almost burned my house down and had 2nd degree burns on my hands. The whole experience was really horrible. I was on a lot of morophine. I was lucky, I was starting back to work and had quite a freezer stash. (At least the freezer didn't burn lol!)The last thing dh would have needed was to take dd out in the snow to get some formula when she couldn't have my milk. I barely got to the hospital as it was since it was snowing so bad. So I am all for keeping a can of formula around and a fire extinguisher! (Which saved my house BTW)

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

MartiesMom2B

02-19-2004, 01:49 PM

Yeah it stinks that your hospital doesn't give you the formula diaper bag anymore. It probably does have to do with the baby friendly hospital initiatives. Since you don't get free formula, I'd load up on all the other freebies that you get at the hospital. Hey I even took one of those super cool nightgowns home.

If you want free formula go to the similac and enfamil website and sign up. You'll get more formula than you'd ever want. I've used my freebies to mix with cereal because I was horrible at pumping. Yes my daughter is completely breastfed except for her cereal, and bigger gasp she doesn't eat all organic food either. The freebies do come in handy and so do the coupons. I've given them away to my friends on the board and off.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

Melanie

02-19-2004, 02:03 PM

Neve, I respect your feelings. I am not going to sit here and say you shouldn't feel the way you do because that would be totally inappropriate. I, personally, am sorry that you feel so angered about this, but it shows passion and you have a passion for raising your family in a healthy and happy manner. As you may have noticed, others of us have a passion for doing so as well. It is just the manner which differs.

I will say that this:
"if formula feeding was such the devil then why would it be approved..."

is a ridiculous argument and I was surprised to see that in your post. I don't think anyone can argue that in the history of our country, there are many things which are or have been approved for sale, that have later been proven not to be the healthiest options.

I wholeheartedly agree with what Karen had to say, all of us educated & caring parents have chosen the path (or options) with the least risks for our children. From what I see, the problem of manipulative formula marketing is not an issue with this group. Everyone is here because they are out to research the best options for their children. It is the population at large who does not have access or the will/desire to research their parenting options and will simply blindly follow whomever talks to them first. For some, it is the nurses at the hospital handing them a bottle. There you go. They've made no educated decision, it was made for them. I think it is important that hospitals find a good balance and are educated on both breast- & formula-feeding.

Edited to say: That I am sorry so many of the FF mothers here feel the need to time and time again defend themselves. I don't think any of you sat there with your newborn and thought, "hm...well I could breastfeed you, but why go to the effort? I'm going to spend the next 12 months spending a mint on formula and washing bottles instead." No, you didn't. When someone posts something pro-breastfeeding it does NOT translate to: "All formula-feeding mothers are bad." IT does NOT.

Marisa6826

02-19-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

>They know the risks and they choose to take those risks for their baby.

My risk of NOT feeding Sophie - plain and simple - is that she wouldn't have anything to eat.

That IS NOT a choice. I invite you to sit there listening to a six day old infant crying from hunger and tell me what you would have done.

I got enough crap from enough people that I KNOW from BOTH camps. On one side my MIL was giving me a hard time for why I would even want to try and on the other, my psycho mother telling me I wasn't trying hard enough.

I sure don't need to rehash it with people that a) weren't there and b) have no business telling me what's right and wrong for my daughter.

-m

Jalib

02-19-2004, 02:26 PM

Why is knowing the facts - all the facts - such a bad thing? Formula companies have been spouting the facts on why their formula is great for years and years. Why do the unpleasant facts have to be hidden? I believe it is a parent's personal decision how to feed their child. I am not bashing anyone who uses formula. I just hope those who chose formula did so by making an educated decision and were not manipulated by formula companies. One form of manipulation is the "breastfeeding success" bag. I made it clear to everyone that I was planning on breastfeeding and I still had formula coming at me from all directions. It was hard for me to understand. Then I read the book Milk, Money, And Madness and it was very eye opening. When I make an educated decision I want to know ALL the facts so I can make the right decision for me.

I am usually a lurker but I just feel so passionate about this topic I had to post. Nursing my son has been one of the greatest experiences of my life and I want others to be able to experience it for themselves if that is their intention.

Elizabeth

gracelynne

02-19-2004, 02:28 PM

Back in October, my hospital here in SoCal rained free samples down on us. We got the free bag from Enfamil (I see them all over town!) and a cooler with cold packs. I think it was a BF-friendly bag because I vaguely remember asking for that, but they gave us samples anyway. I wasn't planning on using them, but it was good to have them on hand. It was the premixed stuff in little bottles. They gave us nipples for those bottles, plus little cups if I preferred cupfeeding. They had us supplement those first few days (but that's another story), so maybe that's why we got so many free bottles.

I'm not sure how it happened, but my name got on Enfamil's mailing list and they regularly send coupons and once a huge can of formula. I keep it just in case. They also sent me a nice little set of black/white flashcards for answering a quiz that they provided all the answers to, so I tend to think of them kindly.

stillplayswithbarbies

02-19-2004, 02:44 PM

>Quote:
>
>
>>They know the risks and they choose to take those risks for
>their baby.
>
>
>My risk of NOT feeding Sophie - plain and simple - is that
>she wouldn't have anything to eat.
>

Marisa that is exactly my point. You weighed the risks and chose the less risky option. Not eating at all is certainly more risky than giving formula.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

McQ

02-19-2004, 02:47 PM

I think the reason why the FF mothers feel like they need to defend themselves is because of manner of which some of the posts are written. And if we really are the educated, well researched, made the best decision for our child mothers that the posts say we are, then we don't need to hear the preachy, shove it down your throat scare tactics telling us how we've damaged our child.

Allison
~ mommy to Declan 3.24.03

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 02:50 PM

First of all when I am typing here I don't look at it as writing a formal letter to be picked a part...so I stand by my post that formula is not a "devil" maybe I should have written a "poison"...

I an not for a second effected, or talking about by anyones passion to feed their child a certain way MY POST WAS 100% about scare tactics...

And also I wouldn't bank on your last few lines (I am suprised YOU wrote that) that you don't think anyone is looking at their child and deciding they want to buy formula spend tons and buy bottles...I wouldn't bank on that statement at all...I am behind women no matter how they concluded to feed their baby or their reasons...

And I didn't say anyone said all formula feeding bad moms are "bad" again my defense is bringing up cancer scares and other scares to prove a point.

What if I came here and posted (continuously) about statistics of children of divorce, bad marriages, children of bi races, children from public schools and what if they involved scare tactics of really screwing up a childs life do you think that would be taken to kindly...I could go on and on..I bet I could find a study that your child is doomed if born before mid night and another one that they are doomed if born after midnight...

And be assured I want to say MANY things that I am having to hold back on...BE ASSURED...
I laugh in the face!!!!!....of those who act like my baby would be so sick if fed formula...and again I hold back what I want to say...my child has had MAYBE two colds...no earache and the ONLY time he went to a DR outside of a well baby exam was for a diaper rash...and I have ALWAYS been given a high five by every doctor who has come into contact with my child...not a one has questioned me...But the arguement that my baby would be so ill obviously hasn't held up in my case ...and I bite my tongue from there...

So with that I'll shut up and won't be responding again on this thread!!!!
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

Rachels

02-19-2004, 02:52 PM

No bashing from me, either. I assume you have good reasons for your choices, and I KNOW how hard it can be to nurse. I would never have been able to do it without paying through the nose for lots of help, and in this culture, I don't fault any mother who tries and has a hard time. This is not a society that supports women in nursing. And I did say that of course many FF babies will be just fine. Nor did I single out or attack anybody, although I certainly was jumped all over. And I said that formula IS a good choice when a mom or baby truly can't breastfeed, and I would have given it to Abby in a heartbeat if she had been losing too much weight and starving with adequate help unavailable. Like I said, I never faulted any single person here.

Listen, if you don't like that research or you don't believe it or you don't care, fine. It's your right to do what you want in parenting your babies. Breastfeeding isn't the only way to mother well, and I never said I thought that. But as Karen, Melanie, and Elizabeth also pointed out, hiding facts doesn't do anything to help anybody, and it certainly doesn't answer the question raised by the OP as to why a hospital might make this choice. So I identified the white elephant in the room. Big deal. Those studies weren't something I always knew, and learning about them made a big difference for me. If they don't make a difference for you, fine-- ignore them.

As for the fact that my child suffered reflux and that our insurance prohibited us from choosing her specialist ourselves-- I don't see what that has to do with anything. Leave her out of this, please.

And as Melanie said, "When someone posts something pro-breastfeeding it does NOT translate to: 'All formula-feeding mothers are bad.' IT does NOT."

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 02:54 PM

Allison-
that is EXACTLY how I feel...thank you!!!!
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

Marisa6826

02-19-2004, 03:00 PM

Elizabeth-

It's not so much the *facts" but how they were presented. The poster was essentially saying that there was no excuse (except for the 1% who are physically unable to breastfeed) for exposing your child to those risks.

When the fact of the matter is that this subject is not that clean cut. There are those of us that went into the game fully expecting to breastfeed, yet once there, weren't able to accomplish that goal.

I lost Sophie's twin to hydrocephalus. When Sophie was diagnosed with high bili levels at four days old, the doctors suggested supplementing her with formula to try and get the count down by essentially hydrating her. My milk wasn't in yet. I was dead set against it. I waited a day to see what would happen. She got worse and worse. Her levels were approaching a dangerous level. They told me that if they continued to get higher I was risking brain damage. How do you expect a parent who had already lost one child to a brain dysfunction to react to that information? Was I supposed to sit there on my high horse saying, "Nope. No formula for MY daughter."

Does it make me less of a mother that I couldn't get Sophie to latch on? Do I deserve to be made to feel like a second-class parent because I had to feed her SOMETHING?

It's not like I was feeding her uranium water. I'm feeding her something that's been around for as long as you and I have, that's been sustenance for millions of kids, has been approved by the federal government, and none of us are walking around with two heads because of it.

Did the hospital physically FORCE you to take the dipe bag? I suspect not.

Just because I have pre-approved credit cards coming at me from all directions in the mail everyday doesn't mean I need to take them up on the offer.

Best of luck with nursing your son

-m

NEVE and TRISTAN

02-19-2004, 03:04 PM

Rachel, it's not that you bringing facts out that have been hidden...your facts are your agenda!!!!
and you also have not identified a white elephant in the room I personally think many of us don't care about the white elephant I think you like the idea of "making" him...and elaborating on him...and again actually creating the big white elephant...and making hte big white elephant so mean and deamoned...you pick and chose what you want to present that is for sure...

...and when you bring up cancer scares and cancer of children etc... based on a very accepted practice of feeding babies then YOU BRING OUR CHILDREN INTO IT!!!!

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

aliceinwonderland

02-19-2004, 03:08 PM

Maybe I should not chime in, as my child is not here yet. But maybe this gives me a different perspective on the issue. FIRST and FOREMOST, NO MOM here should have to defend what they are choosing to feed their child: breastmilk or formula, organic or non-organic. Everyone chooses what works for them and their families, and I would say from the being on the boards for a while now, they do so after doing much research. I would be just as angry if someone walked to me now and said that the one coke I am drinking or maybe the half glass of wine I had 3 weeks ago will forever hurt my unborn child...But I have done my research, and i can answer them...
All the marketing from the formula companies IS NOT directed at moms who, for one reason or another did their research and decided FF was best for them and their little ones. I'm sorry that maybe the tone of Rachel's post was hurtful to some, but I KNOW that whether I breastfeed or Formula feed my child, I KNOW breast is best...As I said, I don't know what will happen when he is here, I definately plan to breastfeed, but if it does not work out as it did not for some ladies here, then I do not think I will take offense to rachel's post, because, I mean, that is the truth, isn't it??
I am sorry it sounds so horrible, but compared to the millons of dollars put into marketing from formula companies, who started sending flyers into my house while I was still 4 months pregnant, a post that quotes existing research such as rachel's is not quite that harmful, is it? I realise this is a sensitive topic, and TRUST me, I can see where the FF moms are coming from. I may well be one of you in the coming months. But I find it very hard to be angry at rachel's post. As someone pointed out, a breasfeeding add campaign has had to be toned down SIGNIFICANLTLY, because formula companies and their mighty dollars are fighting it tooth and nail, affecting even segments of the American Association of Pediatrics (sorry for the spelling). THAT is what makes me angry. It's all about choice, can we agree on that? Well, from a new-mom-to-be perspective it is not Rachel's post, but the obiquitous formula bottles, adds, frebbies that make true choice so hard (why suffer through thrush and dried nipples when I can just give a bottle??
Respectfully,

eri and bean due in April

suribear

02-19-2004, 03:09 PM

Wow, this has gotten out of control, honestly!

I still say that it's best not to give out formula, except by request. I think that's the reasonable solution and everyone will be happy.

Kris

starrynight

02-19-2004, 03:13 PM

>EXACTLY Norah! I just exited out of my original post because
>I thought it too harsh, but this really gets me steamed. I
>could not BF - neither could my mom or sister - and those free
>samples were just a godsend. I brought home both pre-mixed
>and powder and have been able to use them interchangably ever
>since. The free samples also REALLY saved me a lot of money!
>
>
>No where is it written you have to accept the handouts. If
>you're certain you don't want them and don't even want the
>temptation, tell your OB and nurses not to offer them at all.
>Better yet, tell the LC's. I found phenomenal support in the
>hospital staff for my situation, and I couldn't imagine them
>not supporting someone in the opposite situation.
>

Thank you Jennifer :) I 100% agree with you on that. I know alot of people that breastfed and just left the formula there or asked for none to be given to them or sent home with them. And some hosptials give out a breastfeeding bag instead, I know enfamil does.

Not everyone can breastfeed and every little sample helps. And honestly if you child gets one can of one brand and then you make a permanent switch to another I don't think it matters much, I know alot of ffing moms that made the switch after the first free can and it wasn't a problem. I don't think it's a keep you kid on this brand for life issue but I guess some do.

To ban it all together to not upset those who don't want it is wrong IMO. I didn't cave into to formula because it was there, I caved in because I couldn't get my son to take the breast after 3 weeks, and in the hospital it was policy he had to eat at least once before leaving and he lost a pound. They fed him formula once and he never would get off the bottle after that. Pumping did not work for me. I don't blame the formula being there, I blame the ped who ordered he have formula,the lack of enough Lc's and the fact most of the nurses all told me a different way to do it. I had no clue what I was doing! I never tried with my girls, I know alot of people would flame me for that but emotionally and physically I was in pain after I failed with Alex and did not want to go through that again.

Sorry this got seriously long but I had to get that off my chest.

And all of my kids are healthy, smart and with the exception of Daria's eczema without any medical issues. I did the best thing for all of them, I fed them and held them and loved them.

Rachels

02-19-2004, 03:22 PM

Neve, I've seen you with Tristan and I know you're a good mother. I did not make up those studies, and I did not forge the link to childhood illnesses. As I said, until I read them myself, I didn't know any of that. It's not gloom and doom, it's information worth knowing. I post the stuff I have access to and hope that others will do the same. My kid would be forward-facing, for example, if people hadn't posted research and freaking terrifying videos of forward-facing car accidents. Or maybe I would have bought her a seat with an overhead shield. If I hadn't been well-educated about the risks of smoking, you can bet your booty I would have picked it up in college. I didn't know that stuff inately-- somebody told me, and it affected my choices for my life and Abby's to learn it. I'm grateful, even though it was scary as hell.

As for posting these studies repeatedly, I have not. I HAVE said that breastfed babies are typically healthier, and sorry, that's true in the global population.

As for the white elephant thing, I don't like it one bit. I think it's sick that it's totally accepted to talk about the dangers of different kinds of carseats and cigarettes and certain foods, but taboo to talk about breastfeeding. Why on earth do you think Baby Friendly hospitals have to stop with the formula-giving? Because I told them to? Come on. It's not my agenda, it's a health issue. I think it's disgusting that we're expected to keep quiet about it in order to keep anyone from ever learning uncomfortable information. It's a double standard. I never said anyone here was a better or worse parent for how their babies are fed, nor do I think that's true. You're responding to what you imagine me to think and feel, not what I've actually said I think and feel. My post was to identify the health concerns that lead hospitals to stop giving formula samples. I notice that tiptoeing around things isn't your style, and it isn't mine, either.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

starrynight

02-19-2004, 03:27 PM

I don't think this is the same thing at all. The hospital is
>responding to a health issue. Formula feeding has, over the
>last three decades, been REPEATEDLY linked to higher rates of
>childhood leukemia and Hodgkin's disease, lower IQs, higher
>rates of childhood obesity, higher rates of insulin-dependent
>diabetes, higher numbers of ear infections, higher rates of
>Chron's Disease, higher rates of breast cancer for baby girls
>later in their lives, higher rates of allergies, increased
>risk for asthma, increased risk for SIDS, more diarrheal
>infections, and more respiratory infections. Additionally,
>mothers who don't breastfeed are at increased risk for breast,
>endometrial, and ovarian cancers, are more likely to require
>insulin for adult-onset diabetes, and are more likely to
>develop osteoporosis.
>
>But for a hospital to make steps toward helping insure that
>women and babies will nurse is a health move. The research on
>this is real. Lots of babies who formula feed will be just
>fine, of course, but a statistically significant number of
>them will have some of the serious health complications named
>above. This has been demonstrated over and over and over.
>

Let me preface this with I am not getting into a peeing contest with you, I am not offended that you shared this info and I value you sharing your opinion. But many other things lead to this stuff as well. And IMO it does make some ff moms feel more guilt, often moms who bf think this is okay because it will in turn maybe lead to more bf in later siblings.

Parenting magazine said higher rates of diabetes and obesity are linked to feeding solids too early or too late-infant cereal before 3 months or after 6 months for the first time. And vaccines can be linked to allergic reactions, some non vaxers say sids, asthma, add, autism etc but docs still push that needle at 12 hours after birth.

I ff Alex for the most part, and my girls totally. Yes Daria has some food allergics (mild) and eczema but it runs so rampent in dh's family and mine it was a given either way IMO. And many bf kids still get ear infections, eczema, food allergies etc. Maybe it is lessed but not always. Many moms at another community I belong to are on elimination diets because their bf child is allergic to millions of things that were coming through moms milk. And some of them have terrible eczema.

And I know someone who bf both her children to the age of 2 years, exclusivly for the most part. No formula for either child, she still got breast cancer and her son got leukemia. And I know bf and ff kids that are the healthiest kids around, and I know bf and ff kids with asthma, allergics and all around always sick. It's genetics that plays into it. I think there are sooo many reasons some kids and moms get X, Y and Z and their feeding method isn't the total reason. I feel I should bow out of this discussion now as this is my second post.

mik8

02-19-2004, 03:37 PM

I feel the same way here on this board. It's like I'm always in the outer periphery whenever formula-feeding is discussed. I don't need to explain why I "CANNOT" breastfeed in the premise that this board is a community based on respect for each other's decision. I have tried mighty hard to breasfeed, worked with 3 LC's, spent numerous sleepless nights, worked on different techniques that evolved into a laborious series of tasks just so I can breastfeed but it turned out I am one of those unable to do it. The freebie formulas came in handy in the early wee hours (2:00 a.m.)when my DD had only 3 wet diapers in almost 24 hours period and therefore needed a formula supplement right away upon the urgent advise of her pediatrician. I was thankful that we had the freebie can that came with our hospital bag and my DD slurp the milk so fast that I cried thinking I starved her all those time.

aliceinwonderland

02-19-2004, 03:44 PM

Rachel, you have been a great resource to me personally, and I have learned a lot from you. I commend you for having the courage to bring these things up and basically set yourself up to be attacked. I'm sorry your post is being taken personally by other members whose thoughs and experince I very much value also.

Whether I end up breastfeeding or formula-feeding my little "bean", the one thing is for sure that I won't go into it blindly. And I thank you for pointing out some of the facts out there on this topic.

Eri and the bean due in April

christic

02-19-2004, 04:11 PM

What I find so distressing about this discussion is that all of the formula scare tactics do far more damage to the confidence of nursing mothers than the free formula does in the first place! I read SO much about how easily my breastfeeding relationship could be sabotaged before my daughter was born that I was scared to death about what would happen in that hospital nursery. I was relieved when I heard our hospital did not feed formula to breastfed babies, but that was all thrown out the window when my daughter unexpectedly ended up in the NICU and got the works--glucose water, formula, on top of the antibiotics. I didn't get a chance to nurse her immediately and frequently in those first few hours as I had always planned--in fact it was more than 12 hours before we even tried.

Now if I'd believed all of the fear I read in those books and that I see often from women who seem to feel they're supporting breastfeeding--my daughter should have been incapable of being exclusively breastfed from that point on. Luckily though I ignored it all and trusted in myself, my daughter, and the wonderful biology of the boob :) to get back on track. After our first night home from the hospital she was exclusively breastfed until starting solids.

I get very angry with the fear peddled by breastfeeding activists because while it certainly does a disservice to women like Neve who simply choose not to breastfeed, I think it does even more harm to women who want to breastfeed but are led to believe it's so easily undermined by a bottle of free formula or a fake nipple. I think we'd all be better served by pointing out the miraculous nature of the human body, that we can produce exactly the right amount of nourishment our babies need. Yes some women will have problems and need to be supported, but I feel like some here are turning every breastfeeding relationship into a problem before it even starts.

That's my own personal soapbox!
Chris