Mad at Hospital

[August Mom]

First, let me say that this is not a FF v. BF post. This is a parent's right to decide post.

I just went to visit one of my playgroup friends in the hospital. She had baby #2 yesterday. Anyway, she is exclusively BFing. And, she instructed the hospital not to offer bottles or pacifiers. But, she tells me that the nurse gave her 1 day old baby formula without asking. The nurse told her after the fact. Supposedly, formula was given because the baby's glucose level was low. Maybe it was, I don't know. But, I do know that I was told the same thing at this hospital and then spoke with DS's pediatrician about it and he said that DS's particular glucose level was not concerning. Anyway, it just makes me mad that a nurse would disregard a parent's wishes. Surely even if the glucose level was low it wasn't of such an immediate concern that there wasn't time to consult with a parent. Parents should have the right to make these decisions themselves. Ugh!

[stillplayswithbarbies]

this is one reason I never let Logan out of my or DH's sight at the hospital. Even though the hospital was breastfeeding-friendly, I wasn't sure I could trust every nurse there.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[COElizabeth]

I would be furious! Even if the supplement were necessary, I would want to be the one to give it (or my DH), not the nurse! I think that's completely inexcusable. As you say, it's not like the child suddenly stopped breathing and needed to be revived immediately - she could have taken 5 minutes to walk down the hall to the mother's room!

This isn't as bad, but I remember the nurse telling me that if DS's glucose level was too low we would have to offer formula. As far as I know, there was absolutely no reason to suspect that his glucose would be low, she just put it out there, and it made me feel like she was just waiting for a chance to give him formula. Next time around I plan to be better informed on what glucose levels really are concerning, etc., in case the question arises.

Elizabeth, Mom to James, 9-20-02

[gravymommy3]

I have kept my mouth shut regarding all of the bf/ff posts, until now. Let me say that if that nurse had give my child formula without my consent, there would have been HELL to pay. I had gestational diabetes with all three kids. All three had to be closely monitored for blood glucose levels. Hayden had to have one ounce of formula because her bg level dipped to a dangerous level. I discussed my options with the ped on call at the time before I made an informed decision to give her the formula. I only gave her one ounce to see what effect it would have and her bg stabilized enough so she did not need any more.

I gave the formula, not some nurse. If someone had gone behind my back and given my child anything without my permission, heads would have rolled. Who the hell does this nurse think she/he is??

Sorry, just rubbed me the wrong way...

[aliceinwonderland]

Ohh, that makes me SOO mad!! ANd Scared!! I'm due in 5 weeks, and DH and already decided to make up a sign to go in our babies issolette that says "I'm a Breastfed baby. If I fuss, take me to my mom"...

I would be FURIOUS if someone went ahead and gave my baby formula!! What does one do in that case?? WHom do you talk to??

just thinking of this scenario makes my blood boil!!

[Rachels]

I would talk to a lawyer. No kidding. That's inexcusable, and it happens pretty often. If I ever gave birth in a hospital, I'd never allow the baby to be out of the presence of a family member. Yikes.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[JenCA]

Your hospital probably already provides such a sign to be taped to your baby's crib. The one on my DD's crib in the hospital said "Breastfeed baby" in very large, bold, black lettering and had a "no pacifier" box checked. Every hospital is different, though.

I would have been very upset if something similar had happened when my daughter was born. I would have wanted to be consulted before the decision was made--not because I was so against formula, but because I, as the baby's mother, would want to be kept informed of everything regarding my baby's health. I also would have wanted to be the one to feed her the formula, not some random RN.

[deborah_r]

If I have another, I am going to do exactly what Karen just said - baby stays with me ALL THE TIME!

[MartiesMom2B]

If possible, just keep the baby in the room with you. That's what we did the whole time. They only took her out once to get her Hep. B vaccine, and when they did that, I walked down the hall to get myself some juice and I could hear DD. Having the baby sleep in the room with you isn't that bad. She slept in bed with me anyway. The lacation nurse told me to let her sleep in bed with me anyway. I had DH tell the nurses over and over again that we did not want formula and we did not want a pacifier. The on call ped. told me I could use a pacifier and I ignored him. The ped. that we saw for our first appointment told me to only nurse for 20 minutes or I'd get sore nipples and I ignored him and I never got sore nipples (except for a nasty experience w/ crappy breastpads). Go with your instinct!! I can not stress that enough.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

[sntm]

Yup, I was with Jack at every moment, except when they took him for his bath and DH went with him. He was never out of our sight (even for his circumcision -- DH couldn't handle it but I shuffled in there with him! I figured, I had done them before, so I could handle being there and he was much calmer with me there, I think.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[AngelaS]

My first dd was also given formula due to low glucose. When they brought her to me and told me this I gave the nurse a SERIOUS reaming. After that she NEVER left my room again.

When Gabrielle was born she didn't EVER leave my room. She was cup fed forumula a couple times but the nurse came to my room to feed her (they won't let the parents cup feed--how wierd is that??). When this baby's born, it too will not leave my room.

By keeping them with you, they don't get the 'professional pictures' either. But since I've never seen a good one, that was a small price to pay. ROTFL!

[toomanystrollers]

How unfortunate!!! My hospital experiences were the opposite - thank goodness. Seems like parental rights get left at the door the minute you check in!

And FWIW, I would imagine the "professional photos" policy depends on the hospital b/c the photographer came right to our room.

[egoldber]

That must depend on your hospital. DD roomed in with us and our hospital had a "roaming" baby photo person, who had a big cart with the camera that she used to take the "hospital picture".

[gravymommy3]

I hear you Shannon. I insisted that I be allowed to be present for the circ. If I had known that the nurses HATE the task of holding the babies arms, I would have insisted on holding Avery's. OB thought I was a nut wanting to be in there (and that I might faint or whatever!) Please! I thought it was very interesting and it appeared (at least to my untrained eye) that Avery was more upset about being restrained and having the adhesions broken up that the actual cut. I was glad I saw it.

[jesseandgrace]

That really is terrible. My hospital was somewhat the opposite. Breast Feeding is encouraged any you had to go out of your way if you wanted formula. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can not imagine this having happened. I think she should follow up with the hospital. She should have been consulted.

[peanut4us]

Gosh, that is so unfortunate. When Sara was born, she was with us all of the time... except for her bath and DH went with her. It wasn't until she got severe jaundice and was re-hospitalized at 5 days that we were separated. We had several bad events that kind of spiralled downward so that my milk was getting screwed up and she needed some supplement. She WOULD NOT latch. couldn't she couldn't wake up long enough to eat, no matter what we did with her. But my hospital was so great about bfing (as was my ped).

While DD was getting set up in her little level 2 bili lights gears, iv etc... I was working with an LC in my own room. When it was time for Sara to eat, the LC came with me. We tried to nurse first, then nurse with shield, then bottle with what I had pumped, then formula. I guess I was just impressed that they would take the time to help us try to keep the bfing up.

I'm not looking ot start a debate about whether she should have had the supplement... I made the decsion, and I think it was a good one. I just wanted to say that not all hospitals are so bfing unfriendly. And for Sara's stay, they always let me feed her breast and bottle, even in the middle of the night. I'm sorry your friend had such a bad experience.

[JElaineB]

That stinks. Hosptials should not make decisions like that for parents unless it is an emergency.

For myself, I was not able to see DS for over 5 hours after he was born. I was in c-section recovery for a couple of hours and he was being tested because they thought he was bleeding internally. They ran a ton of tests, luckily it turned out to be nothing. Anyway, during that 5 hours they decided he needed some formula, not sure if his blood glucose was low or not. But they did ask us before they gave it to him, well they asked DH who was with him, and DH asked me (I was in my regular post-partum room by then). I didn't really want him to have formula as his first meal, but I said ok as long as they used a dropper or syringe, no artifical nipples. So that's what they did.

I was more upset that later that night. I was having a hard time getting DS awake and latched on and he hadn't eaten for maybe 3 hours. A nurse came in with a bottle of formula (with nipple) and said if I couldn't get him latched on we would have to give him the formula. I can't remember exactly what I said, but she was kind of dumbfounded as to why I would object to formula. And I was told that this was a breastfeeding friendly hospital! Anyway, somehow I got her sent off in search of a ped and by the time she came back DS was latched on and eating just fine. And either DH or I was always with him in the hospital, except for a brief period of time in those first hours.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[sntm]

Oh, the adhesions are definitely the worst! That's why I tend to recommend the dorsal penile block for anesthesia rather than the EMLA cream. Yes, it is an injection, and has some risks, but the EMLA doesn't penetrate far enough IMO.

I've seen it once where the mom held the baby in her arms. This was with the ped surgeon I worked with who was also a mohel, though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[hcsl]

Shannon,
It is my understanding that the AAP doesn't recommend circumcision these days, although they don't 'strongly' not recommend them, either. I'm not sure exactly which field you're in, but do you see a trend away from them at all, or has the rate pretty much stayed the same as far as you know?
Thanks!

[kijip]

I think some nurses are older and just not as supportive of breastfeeding as society is becoming. What an outrage. My son needed a bottle in the hospital but the nurses consulted me AND gave me the chance to pump. His first bottles were colostrum and my milk. This really speaks to the need to be upfront and forceful about your wishes the first minute you go to the hospital. The nurse could not have performed a medical procedure without the parent's consent, so why should they be allowed to my a feeding choice without the parent's consent.

Delivering babies with insured parents is a major cash cow for hospitals. My insurance company forked over 46,000 for my son (1 week in NICU) and 27,000 for me (C section after 30 plus hours of labor) Parents in areas with multiple hospitals should make it clear to the hospital administration that they are not happy when their wishes are not followed and that they intend to tell their friends and family to take their baby deliveries elsewhere. We did this, and took our pediatric care elsewhere (outside to hospital clinic system) and recieved a detailed letter of apology for the problems we faced at the hospital. They practically begged us not to take our care elsewhere. I think that this trickles down and makes them more responsive in the future. In my case it was not feeding but insensitivity to my status as a child rape survivor- it was all over my medical history that pelvic exams are more than a bit tramatic for me but the residents that were caring for me did not pay close attention and kept trying to have 2 seperate docs examine me each time "as a teaching tool". Sorry but a survivor of rape with objects at the age of 11 is NOT the person to have a clueless 1st year resident examining followed by a second doc to make sure the resident is on track. I had made it clear to my doctor that this was not acceptable and had her assurances that it would not happen but my baby came the last day of her vacation and I was dealing with unknown faces. Not cool. Vote with your $ and take your business elsewhere in the future if possible and let them know why. I will never return to the maternity ward of that hospital. If we have another, I am going to their chief competition and they know why....

[sntm]

I'm in surgery, but I did a presentation on circs while on my newborn rotation in med school. The medical reasons for circumcising are pretty evenly balanced by the medical reasons for not circumcising, which has led to the AAP recs. The reasons now are mostly social. The national rates in the US are going down slowly, but are still about 50-60% last I heard.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[lizajane]

ok, i have kind of a weird reponse here, especially for who i am and how i feel about things.

my child had 2 oz of of formula from a bottle right after he was born without my consent or my knowledge. yes, i was outraged. but i MOVED ON AND GOT OVER IT. yes, with my next child, i will be sure to tell them they are are absolutely not to give the baby any formula and they sure as shootin' are not to give my child a BOTTLE.

but when i asked why i did it, they said that it is the LAW to give a baby with a certain glucose level formula to bring the level up. they said it is VERY common in large babies. and i was given the opportunity (and the assistance) to latch him on immediately following birth. so i alread knew that i tried to give him colostrum first, and it didn't work.

sometimes i think that darned bottle was the reason i had so much pain the first 6 weeks. but it wasn't. let's face it. he was latching on perfectly, he just sucked like a mad man because he was huge and he was hungry.

so, yes, this happened to me. but i didn't discuss it. i didn't argue about it. i completely put it out of my mind and flat out pretended that it never happened. it is the only formula my child has ever had. and if you asked if my child ever had formula, i would just tell you no. because I HAD MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO AND MORE IMPORTANT THINGS ON MY MIND THAN SOMETHING THAT WAS DONE AND COULD NOT BE UN-DONE. the end. so if this happens to anyone else, all i can say is move on. get over it. you can't take it back. go love on your baby and your partner instead of fighting with nurses about something that cannot be reversed.

[sntm]

I doubt there is a law that says that. I've never heard of such a thing, and groups like the AMA tend to fight tooth and nail to prevent legal interference with medical decision making, especially as expert opinion may change with new research. More likely, it was the hospital policy.

I agree, what's done is done, but by raising a stink, you may prevent it from happening to another baby.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[kransden]

OMG! I can't believe they didn't even ask you! My drs ALWAYS ask me. Since it doesn't bother me, I almost always give my consent. There are plenty of people like me to make up for people that are distressed by exams for whatever reason. I would switch too!

BTW my dd had a big sign saying breastfed from the hospital on her isolette. There was no issue about about bfing at all.

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[mamahill]

Don't let the baby leave the room. Everything was done in my room (labor/delivery/recovery/tests/bath/etc) and Ainsleigh only left the room when I was wheeled to the car to leave. And I was holding her. This is your baby - you're the mom. Don't let the intimidation of your new role hold you back!

[lizajane]

"but by raising a stink, you may prevent it from happening to another baby..."

but i may have also prevented myself from enjoying the first few hours with MY baby. and i think that is what is more important. threatening to sue the hospital and screaming at the very nurses who are there to make MY life comfortable doesn't really sound like a fun way to cherish the first moments of my child's life. and they are not going to change their policy because i was obnoxious. and in the first few weeks of my child's life, i had NO time to spend writing letters to hospital administration about a policy that is intended to save my child from medical problems (even if i think it is unnecessary).

i hear ya on preventing it from happening and upsetting someone else. i do. but be honest. would you prefer to work yourself into a rage over something that can't be undone or would you prefer to focus on nursing, bonding, sharing your joy with family, resting...

ETA: to be clear, i was horrified. i was outraged. i was livid that they didn't ASK me, TELL me, or use a cup or dropper to feed it to a breastfed baby. but i stand my ground that it was a better choice to put those feelings aside so that i could LOVE every minute with my brand spankin' new babe.

[Rachels]

Both very good points, I think. There is some talk of litigation around here against hospitals that give formula against a family's express orders, and I'm all for it. I am not too quick to jump to the ideas of lawyers and lawsuits, generally speaking, but I think that money talks in the very particular way that hospitals are able to hear. They seem to need a specific reason to listen when families say "No formula," because this kind of thing happens far more than it should. So I'm on board with that, and I don't think that the women who are participating love their babies any less or enjoyed them any less. But I do understand and respect the choice to let it go for the sake of your relationship with your babe, as well. Sigh. Wouldn't it be nice if hospitals just didn't make you choose?

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[deborah_r]

To: "kijip" (I think that is your screen name, I cannot tell sometimes with the underlining!):

I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences at the hospital, and what happened to you when you were 11. Good for you for standing up for yourself and letting them know what they did was unacceptable!

[wagner36]

On sort of the same line of thought, I saw A Baby Story (TLC was a fabulous form of procrastination while I was studying for the bar exam a few years back - I watched them all day) once that your comment made me think of - it was so sad. The women was having her second child, and was talking about how much she was looking forward to "bonding" with the new baby because she was unable to "bond" with her first. Apparently her first baby was brought to the wrong mother to nurse in the hospital (terrible, horrifying, unbelievably awful, huge health risk, etc., etc., I'm sure we all agree on that point) and she was devastated (understandably). But, even after the nurses were fired (turns out it was human error), etc., etc., she couldn't get over it - to the point that she had genetic testing done on the baby because she didn't really feel like it was her baby and had struggled with that feeling ever since. I'm sure that post-partum depression of some sort played a role here, and I'm not saying that she should have been okay with the error, but I felt so bad for the little girl. I mean, the poor child will probably watch The Baby Story about her sibling someday, and then she has to listen to how her mom never felt bonded with her for that reason. I would be devastated if I heard my mom say something like that about me.

I know this was a digression, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you to some extent, and I think there's a lot to me said to just loving your baby!

[brigmaman]

This post just reminded me that the nurses at our hospital gave Brig a pacifier after he was born. I found it in his bassinet on the day we were scheduled to leave. I was a bit upset that I hadn't been consulted since we were just learning to nurse.

[nathansmom]

I feel the same way. Thanks for posting your feelings.
Nathan was sent to NICU for low blood sugar and was given formula. It was medically necessary and I'm not upset over it. He was very sick, his level was 8 and it took him 4 days to get a blood sugar level over 20. Yes the formula cause a failure of breastfeeding. The pumps and everything else the lc's had me try didn't work. I grieved but on day 7 of his life I decided I needed to enjoy my baby. Not grieve over the fact that I was unable to breastfeed my child. When Nathan had issues with formula I was very upset. We tried relacting and it didn't work. However I decided that BONDING with my child was what he needed not my grief.
However when women start with the bf is best and formula is the evil I do start to feel grief again.

[jraohc]

I've heard so many stories like this that I am not going to trust the nurses in the hospital. I refuse to let my newborn out of my (or my husband's) site once he/she is born [assuming of course that there are no extreme emergencies that would require us to be out of the way]. I totally agree with you - parents should have the right to decide these things and there is no reason they should have given the baby a bottle. It's so frustrating.

[mommd]

My experience wasn't with the nurse giving my baby formula, but with them giving the Hep B vaccination against my wishes. I was asked if I wanted to start the HepB series right away and I said NO (DH happened to be videotaping my Mom with DD so my answer is on tape). When the baby was brought back to me I was told she was given the shot!!!! When I yelled at the nurse about this she said I told her yes and that I was just confused because I had just given birth. Keep your baby with you at all times or at least send someone you trust to be with the baby when they are taken for the bath or tests or anything!!

[Melanie]

>That must depend on your hospital. DD roomed in with us and
>our hospital had a "roaming" baby photo person, who had a big
>cart with the camera that she used to take the "hospital
>picture".

We had that as well.

[Melanie]

I'd be furious! I had GD and at one point in the night one of the nurses suggested he would need formula or glucose if he couldn't latch soon (none of them seemed to have any training in Lactation). I had them check his blood sugar since they were already doing the ridiculous AFP test and he was fine. If he had needed it, we would have allowed it but not by artificial nipple.

This is the BIG BIG reason that Ds never left our sight in the hospital. I had not planned on a hospital birth so I was rather unprepared for some aspects, but that was what thing I knew! I've even read tales of baby boy's being CIRCUMCISED without parental knowledge/consent. Ds had to go to NICU for an hour and Dh had strict instructions not to leave his side & not to allow ANYTHING extra that we did not already discuss. After that all was done in our room and we never left until we went home. I realize that I was very lucky in the sense that the hospital had private rooms so there was plenty of room for bathing, warming, etc. to be done right there. There were no bassinet signs, though. I wonder if it's b/c the only "nursery" was the NICU?

One thing that was interesting is that the first nurse who swaddled Ds lay him down on his side propped with a blanket the way they were doing a few years ago. I asked her (since "Back to Sleep" was not only drilled into our heads in baby classes but also writted on the pampers) and she said something about how she learned the other way so she's used to it. I realize that side-sleeping Vs back isn't a big deal, but it made me wonder what else the nurses do that is no longer recommended.

"but by raising a stink, you may prevent it from happening to another baby..."

I wholeheartedly agree. Stuff like that eats away at me until I feel like I've done all I can. We had a mostly great experience with our hospital, and I wrote them to say so as well as outline the things that I felt they could improve upon. Then I was able to learn from it and let go of the angst.

"My experience wasn't with the nurse giving my baby formula, but with them giving the Hep B vaccination against my wishes. I was asked if I wanted to start the HepB series right away and I said NO (DH happened to be videotaping my Mom with DD so my answer is on tape). "

You should have seen the bewildered response when we told them "no." I'm just glad, again, that Ds never left our side. YOu should have seen the way they trotted in, "We're here to take him for his shot." Silly me thought they meant the Vit-K shot...they were so vague...so I said he'd had it. Then when they explained and we declined one nurse was so shocked and asked the other if we had to sign a RELEASE form for refusing it. LOL. The other nurse told her we only had to sign a release form to allow it. Dh still finds that ironic.

[kijip]

To file a lawsuit there must be a cause of action, as in damages. I am not sure many judges would see 2 ounces of formula as a complaint on which relief can be granted. Pricing the damage would be very subjective, with no real proof in the eyes of the law. I have to say that I think litigation is unecessary. A letter of complaint to the admin, yes. A lawsuit? I really don't see the basis and as much as I support people's feeding choices I really don't want to see the courts that we all depend on jammed with these sorts of suits.

[aliceinwonderland]

Unfortunately, lawsuits (and fear of) have become the only source of action that get some attention and propels change in these type of situations...A letter to the hospital would at least get ignored or at most get a polite apology.

There's many ways damages can be defined...if not in two oounces of formula, in the potential emotional/physical effect on the parents and their baby.

Anyway, I'm not saying what it is I would do in such a situation (that will hopefully not happen due to me taking the advice here and never leting that baby out of sight), but I wanted to say I can totally see the argument for litigation. One doesn't check parental rights at the door of the hospital when checking in, and hospitals should not be so much about the comfort of their staff as to undermine legitimate patient choices..

[firstbaby]

I would have your friend ask - no demand - to speak with the Director of the unit. I agree to "move on" but this nurse could also have a track record of ignoring other parents wishes, or just plain poor judgement. Her boss deserves to know of each of these instances.

Our hospital had signs in the bassinet that DS was a breastfed baby. We also had them print a sign that said "No pacifiers". Every single nursery nurse that stopped in the room to check DS pushed us to give him a pacifier and asked for explanations why we didn't want him to have one at 2 days old.

He did have to receive 1.5 oz of formula - his glucose levels were low as he was a big baby at birth -- but, we were consulted first and agreed it was in his best interest in this instance.

Again, see if your friend can track down the Director. The behavior is inexcusable and could be an indicator of other poor judgement calls.
Good luck!

[cara1]

What I don't understand is if the blood glucose was low, why not just give the baby some sugar water? If it's dangerously low, that is what you need immediately, not formula with all the other stuff in it.

[kijip]

In my case a letter to the hospital is triggering a whole new set of procedures/awareness for dealing with mothers that are rape survivors. The right words can be powerful. And I did not threaten to sue...

Damages that are not specific losses in court, those for "loss of enjoyment of life" or "pain and suffering" or punitive damages (only available in a few states) are not typically recognized except where they are in addition to special damages like medical expenses, lost property or loss of income etc. We all remember the Paula Jones case being dismissed for lack of real damages, no? Maybe I am not sharp enough in Torts to remember but I really doubt that suits pertaining to the damage of small amounts of formula would not be thrown right out of court. While parents wishes need to be followed 100%, I really don't think that formula constitutes a cause of action.