need a little help/moral support....Thanks... update LONG

[abigailsmom]

I am hesitant to post this b/c I haven't even really let it soak in yet, but... My husband and I are talking divorce. I don't know if there are any of you that have been through this and are willing to share any advice with me but I am a basket case. I think that I've known this was coming for longer than I care to admit, but I am lost as to what to do next.

My biggest concern is my sweet, innocent daughter. I would rather die than be the cause of her unhappiness and yet I know that's exactly what I am going to be doing to her.

I almost wish that he were some kind of awful person and dad b/c that would make it easier to deal, but he's not. He's is a kind and gentle man and father!! I feel like a failure and a bad person!!!

I am not looking for a huge outpouring of pity, but more for pointers on how to cope. And anything about how to make this better/ easier for my dd. (if that's even possible)

TIA! I hope this topic doesn't make anyone mad or uncomfortable!

Robyn
Abigail's mom
8-02

Edited to add: I guess I should have given you a bit more info. We've been together almost 3 years married for 2. Since being together we've been through:
dh out of work
both of us changing jobs (me 1x him 4x)
3 moves (the last to a house I LOVE- in a town I HATE!!)
birth (BEST THING ON THE LIST)
dh out of town training for 10 weeks
major IL issues
family weddings/ births
dh is currently hurt on workman's comp
i returned to school
we work pretty opposite hours (me only 2-3 nights a week)
buying 2 cars and a house

So, needless to say we've covered pretty much every stress on that fabulous list of stressors. We have seen a therapist, but I don't think she was very good at helping us. (Is that possible?) We stopped seeing her when dh went out of town to train for his job and for some reason never started back. (Probably b/c we didn't care for her)

I feel like if I give up now then I am a quiter, but if we keep trying only to find out we are just not meant to be together then I will have drug out the enevitable (sp?).

DH is willing to do whatever will make us both happy in the end. It's been so long since we could be happy and laugh and enjoy each other that we both long to se the other happy. I relized how bad it was recently when his good friends and wives came over and he laughed!! Not that everyday giggle at your silly dd or laughing at something on TV or in a movie, but honest-to-goodness belly-laughing! It came to me then that I didn't remeber the last time I heard that... that broke my heart! I don't want to ruin this wonderful man for someone else that can make him happy! I just don't want to give it up if it could be me!

Now that I am sitting here like a fool crying and feeling silly, I'll as the question I intended on asking...
How so I find a GOOD therapist to talk to is we go that route? I don't know many people here and the few I do I wouldn't want them to know this is going on...

If your still with me... THANK YOU! Thank you for your hugs, kind words and advice... keep it coming if you have time!

Robyn
Abigail's Mom 8-02

[Rachels]

Oh, Robyn! I'm so sorry. You were right to reach out for support, and I think that's the main thing you have to keep doing. Find a therapist, find a mom's group, call Parents Without Partners. Have you guys really made this decision? If not, can you get some help together? Or if so, do you think you'll be able to deal with each other amicably about your daughter? My parents are divorced, but their commitment to parenting was mutual. I saw my dad most days, they checked in with each other regularly about us, etc. It must have been hard for them, but I think it made a world of difference for me. Now they are Abigail's extended family, and we're all together for family events, so it will be a blessing for her, too. If you can stand it, maybe have a few sessions with your husband and a counselor to talk about how you'll coparent from here on out.

And don't be afraid to let your daughter see you grieve. She'll feel sad and confused for a while, and if you pretend everything is fine, it will confuse her more. Both of your experiences of sadness are valid and normal. She'll adjust quickly, and you'll heal with time.

Let us know what we can do to support you.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[toomanystrollers]

Oh Robyn,
Have you exhausted all other choices: counseling, trial seperation,...? Parenthood definitely puts a strain on marriage. We went through a pretty rough time after our first and we managed to work through it and get the support we desperately needed at the time.

Hugs,

[momathome]

Robyn-
I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going through this situation. Dh and I had a very rough time of it back in the fall following my miscarriages and we did even talk about splitting up. Luckily, things are better now but it was scary to see how close we came to the edge. I hope things work out for you, even if that means standing on your own two feet with Abigail. Best wishes to you and {{{HUGS}}}.
-Lauren

[sntm]

{{{{{{robyn}}}}}

I'm so sorry for you -- what an awful time. There are a lot of good resources out there for you. Rachel listed a bunch. You should be proud that you are so concerned for your daughter's happiness. And in the long run, the fact that he is a good person will hopefully make it easier on her. My parents had a nasty split and it did affect me badly but more because of the way it happened (they used to fight at night after they thought we were asleep (root of my insomnia??), they used to talk "through" us about money/the other parent's dating/problems with the other parent, they were in general very negative about it all...) They actually became friends again after my father's second wife died and now they get along pretty well. I can imagine how much better that would have been if they were able to do that when I was 8.

A recent Mothering magazine had an article about divorce and kids. It seemed really good (just flipping through it.) If you want me to tear it out and send it to you, just PM me your address.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[votre_ami03]

(((Robyn))) I have been there. My H told me just over a month b/f our son was born that he was leaving me. He moved out just b/f Nolan was born.

Is there any hope that you two can stay together? In my situation it was pretty one sided & XH was not willing to seek out any counseling.

I can say as hard as it seems now, there is life after divorce. Please feel free to PM me.


Christy, mommy to Nolan 7/22/03

[MartiesMom2B]

(((Robyn))). I don't have any advice for you that hasn't been mentioned before. I just wanted to give you some support. I hope everything works out for the best, either way.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

[bluej]

I'm so sorry you are going through this Robyn. I agree w/ what the others have said about seeking counseling if you have not done so. And if the outcome is still divorce I strongly believe that having two parents that get along but are no longer together is so much better than having them together but not getting along. I wish you the best in whatever you and your spouse decide.

[tinkerbell1217]

I have been there. My ex left me when I was 4 months PG with our second child and it was a nightmare! Especially since he had been having an affair since I got PG with our 2nd. Immediately after I found out about the affair I filed for divorce. I cried alot. I even started sleeping with our 15 mo old DD and that helped ALOT!!! Having her next to me was comforting. I put all my time and energy into being a good mommy and staying healthy for my unborn baby. Once I had our DS it got a little rough, the first three months were hard without a husband, but I got through with my family's support. Luckily, I had a few very good close friends to also help me out.

You ARE NOT a failure!!! You ARE NOT a bad person. Things happen and sometimes, no matter how good our intentions are, divorce is the only option. You do not want to stay together and be miserable. Your DD will pick up on that. Then, she will be unhappy too. The one thing you have to remember is to put her well being above all else. I tried to do that even though my ex did not. You can be civil to each other and have her best interests in mind when planning things like visitation and outings. As long as you are both willing to work together for her needs you have won half the battle.

Make sure you try to take time for yourself also. I would get a sitter, usually a family member, to watch my kids once a week so I could hang out with friends or see a movie with friends. It was so impotant to have that "me" time too.

Lastly, divorce is not the end of the world. I divorced finally in 1990 when my son was 3 months and my daughter 21 months. It took me awhile, but I remarried in 1995 to the most wonderful man in the world. You have to make it happen for yourself though. I sat and cried alot over the first two years until I realized no one was going to make me happy but me. Support groups are great too, if you can find one that suits how you feel and your needs. I couldn't find one I liked so I relied on friends and family mostly.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Its tough, so tough. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you and your husband can be the best parents for your DD whether together or not. Its definitely doable. Hang in there.

Kelly

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Robyn,
I just wanted to give you a big hug...
I have no real good advice except that babies turn marriages in a different direction, not necessarily bad a one, just a different one...I think it is ovet the years that they turn back in the other direction, but raising a family is hard on relationships...the gazes that used to be spent on eachother are now spent on a baby...

If this does happen I so admire your thoughts on your hubby and that in itself puts you to the head of the class on how this will be taken by your daughter...

Isthere a family member that can watch DD while you two take a little honeymoon...
There is a neat little book called Light her Fire and another called Light His Fire, iwth simple examples to rekindle a love...you might want to grab those too...

Hugs, we are here...you sound like your head is so on your shoulder and I admire you for it!!!!

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[jenmcadams]

Robyn -

First of all my thoughts are definitely with you. I've been experiencing what this is like vicariously through one of closest friends for the last year and I have some idea of how difficult it can be. In her case, her husband had an affair and then left (and moved out of state) after attempting to work on things for a few weeks and then him deciding he no longer wanted to work on things. Their son was just a month older than Abigail, so she's had issues similar to what I'm sure you'll be dealing with.

I just wanted to echo a couple of things that others have said about making sure you make time for yourself throughout this process. Obviously your first concern is your daughter, but make sure you have an outlet for yourself too. Hopefully you have family or friends that can help or you can afford a babysitter so you can get out and have some grown-up time with friends during this process.

My only other advice is to do everything you can to make things civil for you daughter. For my friend, her ex is not in-state and flies in every 2-3 weeks to see his son. It's not ideal and the one thing she wishes for her son was that her ex was in town and able to see her son more often. My husband's parents were also divorced when he was young (around 4 when they split up) and while the divorce and custody situation was pretty acrimonious, when the court stuff was done they basically maintained a civil (yet cool) approach to each other and my husband and his sister saw both parents frequently during the week and ultimately ended up doing about 1/2 the time with each of them.

Good luck with everything and please don't forget to take time for yourself during all of this...you'll be a better mom for it.

So sorry again...post here anytime to vent or get support,

Jen
Mom to Abbie 8/02

[pritchettzoo]

You're not a failure!

My parents divorced when I was 2 1/2. I can't even imagine them together! They did their best to never talk trash about one another and deal with each other civilly.

Honestly, the younger the kids are, the better IMO. She won't go through feeling guilty or feeling like she has to choose between her parents. She's too young to have memories, and she'll pretty much only know you separately.

Your insurance likely pays for family therapy and there are therapists who specialize in dealing with divorce and its impact on families.

The most important factor in your daughter's happiness will be your happiness. If you're depressed, angry, and stressed out all of her life, then that's going to impress on her. How you handle the divorce and handle your relationship with her father later on (and vice versa) will be so, so important.

Good luck with everything.

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

[lukkykatt]

Robyn, I am just so sorry to read your post! I do hope that you find that you and your husband are able to work things out.

My parents divorced when I was 11. In a way, I think it will be easier for Abigail being so young. I knew way more about my parents' marriage than any 11 year old child should know. I guess what I wanted to say is that as your daughter gets older, make sure you always talk nicely about your husband and treat each other decently when she is around - no matter what is going on between the two of you. It sounds like you would do this by the way you characterize your husband, but I just wanted to stress how important it will be to your daughter.

I hope that you have family and friends around who will be a support to you.

I wish you all of the best! Big hugs to you and Abigail!

[Dcclerk]

Robyn,

I am so sorry to hear this. I just was in a mediation with a couple going through a divorce (not me) and I will definitely say that it is a horrible process. There are 3 things that I came away with in that mediation.

1. Divorce is very expensive. If you have any hope of making it work out, spend the money to get a good counselor, go on a vacation together, set up weekly dates together, etc. I promise you that all of those expenses will not be even 5% of what a divorce will be. It's not just the lawyers (which are ridiculously expensive), it is setting up 2 houses, paying for separate insurances, etc.

2. The way that you and your husband treat each other will directly influence the psychological growth of your babe. If you treat each other civily and with respect, you co-parent (meaning that you support each others decisions and present a united front to your daughter), and you give your daughter permission (not just orally, but in all of your actions) to love the other parent, statistically speaking, there will be no difference emotionally and psychologically between Abigail and any child of parents who stay together.

3. You have to agree on how to raise Abigail from the little to the big. It is a rare day when you want a 3rd party (ie. the judge) to make a decision about your child (what the visitation schedule will be, how vacations will be spent, what medical procedures to undergo, etc.). Not only is it less costly, but it will almost always be a better decision if you and your husband make it, rather than a judge.

I'm praying for you...

[Rachels]

Robyn, it's definitely important that your therapist either wasn't good at her job or just wasn't a good match for you. Therapy is a very intimate process. If you don't feel good about the person you're working with, you can't get anywhere. If you're sure that your marriage is over, then couples counseling isn't going to change that-- but it might help you iron out the parenting kinks. But if you aren't sure, then it's worth trying again with someone else. Do you remember feeling really in love with your DH? Does he remember feeling that with you? If you both remember that feeling and you're not sure whether you should end your marriage, therapy has the potential to be enormously helpful to you both.

I am a psychologist by training, and it's sometimes reasonably easy for me to find referrals in other states. If you want some help getting some names in your area, please email or PM me. I'd be glad to try to help you find someone.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[abigailsmom]

I PM-ed you!

TIA!
Robyn
Abigail's mom 8-02

[papal]

Hugs to you Robyn.
You sound so level-headed about this that I am sure whatever tough decisions you make in the upcoming days, they will be the right ones for your daughter and yourself.
So sorry that you are going thru this difficult time. I cannot even imagine how hard it must be on you. Hang in there.. it may not seem like it now but in a few weeks/months things will be much better. I will be thinking of you!

[Torey]

I think most everyone goes through very rough times in their lives. My DH lost his job a month after we were married - and didn't get another full-time job until a month before our DD was born (nearly 2 years later). Right now we are planning on moving to an entirely new state and he will have to find a new job, but fortunately we are moving to be near family. Life is so stressful. Marriage is stressful. A baby is stressful. I don't think people tell you this before you get married. But honestly, it is the rough times that make life better in the long run. My DH keeps telling me that years from now we will look back at our early struggling years and be proud that we made it through. Many days I feel like I can't make it!:)

It doesn't sound like you and your husband don't care for each other. It sounds like you have run into a string of bad luck and that all the stress is taking its toll on your marriage. I don't think that getting a divorce is going to change all the problems you have run into. My non-professional advice is to just look at all the stressful things you are facing and figure out what you need to do to change your lives. You have so many more resources when there are two of you committed to making a better life for your family. Maybe you should see a financial or career counselor to try to figure out what would be the next good step for your family. Maybe you should just sell your house and move to an entirely new city and start a new life.

I read a book called The Case for Marriage and it said there was a poll done of many married couples who were unhappy with their marriages. Five years later they went back and polled the same couples to see how happy they were in their marriages. ALL of them said that things had improved and that they were happy. And another poll was done of people in unhappy marriages who had divorced and most of them said that they were not happier being divorced. I really think that marriage is cyclical. Some days are good, some days are bad. Some weeks are good, some weeks are bad. And then there are some months or years that are good or bad. I have definitely had some of those bad months. But really the most important thing is, if you and your husband are committed to each other, committed to the institution of marriage, and committed to your daughter, then you can make it through this and be a stronger and happier couple and family.

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Sweety you've been dealt a lot, even good things are "stress" like buying a house. In this economy so many are without jobs and that with huge purchases made when times were good can be really hard...

Does it get better...I don't know...once a car is paid off most turn around and buy another one...will there be other big purchases...yes...will there be other job changes...probably...it sure does take the spark out of things at times that is for sure...

As far as it seeing him laugh a certain way, we get content and that is not something that means that the marriage is not good...

You both to me sound very committed to eachother...you want what is best for eachother, honest to god that is about the best trait a couple can have!!!!!

This was one of many lines read at my wedding, "love is not gazing into eachothers eyes but looking outward in the same direction"...

You both sound like wonderful people, and I hope you take Rachel up on helpoing you find someone...I can only imagine that a bad therapist could only hurt matters, but a good one I hope will help you guys...

Our thoughts are with you!!!!
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[ddmarsh]

I am so sorry to hear that you are dealing with all of this. I have a bit of a different perspective as my parents divorced when I was an adult and to be honest I think in many respects it would have been easier if it had occurred in childhood. It just seems like so much of my adult identity and ideas of the future had to shift in such a huge way and that perhaps growing up with it always being that way might have been easier.

My DH and I were separated for a time during my pregnancy with baby #3 and I found that to a large extent mother's instinct really drives you to do what is best for your children. I think it sounds like you are a caring and concerned mom and that if you just let what is best for your child guide you in caring for her during all of this that you will do a great job.

I would also like to second the mediation suggestion. I have done a huge research project on mediation and divorce and most research indicates a much more satisfactory post-divorce outcome with the mediation process.

Good luck -

[Rachels]

Got your PM and emailed you back. I'm happy to try to help. Nobody should tell you that it's best to stay married or best to separate-- you and your DH are the only ones who can make that decision in the context of your particular lives and relationships. Some hard times can be overcome, and others are just too toxic to be healthy for a family. A good therapist whom you trust and feel at ease with can help you sort through your individual situation. Let everyone support you here, but don't let anyone tell you they know the answer for you. And if a therapist tries to do that, find a different one. Nobody can give you the right answer, but hopefully the folks here can give you a supportive shoulder to lean on. And I'll see what I can come up with in terms of names for you.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[toomanystrollers]

Wow Robyn,
After I read the your update - I can check off several items on your list that lead to our major blowout!!! Definitely follow-up w/Rachel's referrals - the right person to talk to can make all the difference - it certainly did with our marriage :)

Keep on "bitching" here - that's what this board is for!

[Kimberly H]

Robyn,

I'm so sorry you're going through this and glad you came here to talk about it. Our marriage sounded similar to yours - great guy, will make someone else a good husband, etc.

I'm divorced from my bio boys' father and we have a darn good post-divorce relationship. Should it come to divorce for you and DH, I'd be happy to talk to you about what worked and what didn't work for us to maybe give you some ideas.

Like everyone said, take time for yourself and vent to us if you need to.

[jec2]

Robyn, I just read this and just wanted to send a hug your way. I don't have much advice except to say that you two (three) have had ALOT to deal with the last couple years. So, I can understand how all that stress can really turn ones life and relationships upside-down. Be kind to yourself and if you two both want to really try counseling, keep on looking for a counselor until you both find one that you like.

[aliceinwonderland]

I can't give much advice that hasn not been given already, but I just wanted today I've been thinking of you today after I read your post this morning.

Then, I read the update, and the one thing that struck me is how lovingly and respectfully you talk of your husband. My husband and I lived together for a period of time before geting married, and when we were dealt several blows in a very short period of time (losing 2 jobs, legal troubles, major money troubles as a result), we went through the roughest time in our relationship to date. He withdrew to himself and became almost mean and neglectful just because he felt like such a failure, I felt like he was the most selfish man on the face of the earth, and felt overtired working hard and paying (literally) for his mistakes. Anyway, I was very mean to him and kicked him out for a week or so. We eventually worked things out, and have now such a happy, joyous marriage. I thought back to that time the other day and started crying, thinking how mean I had been to him, and how close I came to losing him...

Anyway, i second the advice given about a good therapist that is a good match for you. We never went to one, but I had many talks with a cousin of mine, who helped TREMENDOUSLY to put things into perspective...

Anyway, feel free to PM/email me anytime. Both you and your husband sound like great people, and I hope you find happiness and peace either way.

Hugs,

eri (and the bean, due next month!)

[himom]

Robyn,

It sounds to me like you and your DH really do love each other. The amount of stress the two of you have been through in such a short period of time seems like it's overwhelming, and I can see why things are so tense. I'm praying you two will be able to work things out.

Jodi
Mommy to Joshua, born February 2003

[Sarah1]

Hi Robyn...just wanted to lend another voice of support...I've read through the other posts and don't have much to add.

The fact that you still call your DH "a wonderful man" really stood out to me. It sounds like you've been through SO much together in such a short period of time, and the transition to parenthood is so rough...it sounds like the two of you haven't had much time to just BE together and nurture your relationship.

I also think there's no such thing as people being "meant" for each other. I think marriage takes a commitment to MARRIAGE itself as much as being committed to the other person (with the exception of someone who is abusive, etc...that's obviously a situation to get out of). I just wonder if things could brighten...if you could see yourself coming out of this dark spot you're in.

BTW, DH & i have been married for almost 6 years, together for about 10. Believe me, we've had our low moments...everyone has problems and issues to work through in their marriages, and it's unfortunate that so many people don't feel like they can talk openly about it.

Anyway, my point is, maybe it's not time to give up. Not that you'd be a quitter or a failure if you did split up...it's just that you've been together, relatively, such a short period of time and had so much stuff to deal w/within that short time frame.

Regardless, I wish you the best, take care of yourself and your family.

[luvbeinmama]

Robyn,

I just read this and I want to encourage you along with the others to stick with it right now. Find a counselor you both like, and work through it. The first years are the TOUGHEST time in a marriage, and you've added a child into that as well. I look at the first two years of our marriage, and it was not really fun. There is SOOOO much you cannot find out about how the two of you "work" and "work together" outside of living together as a married couple. The first few years are when all that stuff comes to the surface. You are both already committed to each other being happy. That is half the battle won already. The two of you need to be committed to your marriage to make it work. If you see divorce as a way out, IMO you undermine the very thing you are trying to do by being married. For DH & I, we have never even considered divorce an option for personal and religious reasons. That alone has brought us through many things. It makes you work through things instead of giving up, and I believe you will be happier in the long run if you stick with it. I cannot even imagine not being married to DH now. We've been married almost 11 years. And we are still working on some things, but he is my best friend and he makes me happy. I think you can get here, too. Please keep trying. We'll be praying for you.

I don't know what your beliefs are, but I believe the hardest hit couples are often the ones that, if they ward off the attacks to their marriage, become the strongest warriors and have really committed marriages. Keep fighting. And {{{{{ BIG HUGS }}}}}.

[SeekerMage]

(((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))

Just wanted to send you some support...I sure know how tough things can get....hang in there.

The only advice I can give is sort of an echo of what some others have said. My belief is more to give your marriage a chance and try and work things out. It sounds to me like you both just need some time together. With crazy schedules, work, baby, and not time together its no wonder things are the way they are. Just a new baby alone, you tend to forget who you are, what you were as partners etc. Sounds like you need to find your way back to eachother. Start "dating" find some time to talk to each other,(whether it be with a therapist or over dinner) find some family time as well with DD. but most of all, find out the reasons why you were in love in the first place. It sounds like you still love him and him you, just that you dont seem to know each other any more. People change over time, especially when we bring kids into the mix. I feel this way myself. Becoming a mother changes your life tremendously. Before my kids my life was work, house, and taking care of hubby. Now hubby seems to be put on the back burner when he should still be one of the first flames to be lit!

I dont have any right to tell you, no dont get divorced....to me it sounds like you dont want to. It just seems you need to work on things a bit more before making any decisions so big. I praise you for putting DD first and for DH as well, he sounds like a good guy either way you look at it, whether you be together or not. I hope you can find a way to work things out. Whether you have a smooth break up or a way to find your way back to each other. Im actually glad you posted ....make me think about my own marriage and the way I need to find my way back to my DH as well. I guess one thing to do is try and remember the reasons why you fell in love and married in the first place, and remind him of those reasons.

Any how....(((((hugs))))) "handing you a tissue" things will work out just hang in there hon and "bitch" here any time!

[celfsh]

Robyn,

I may be reading between the lines here, but it really sounds to me like you and your DH still have something, you just need to find it again! You have been through so much in the last two years, I can totally understand why it's put a strain on your relationship. From your description, it doesn't seem like the two of you have had much time to focus on your marriage. I agree with others who have suggested "dating" each other again and trying to rebuild what you once had. It will take some work--and may mean making sacrifices in other areas of your lives in order to put your relationship first-- but it will be so worth it if you are able to work things out!

Of course, regardless of what happens, please know that we are all here for you and wishing you all the best!

Hugs,

celeste
mom to olivia 9/25/02