BIL and family can't attend DD's first birthday party

[hellokitty1]

Warning...this post contains profanity and other adult language.

Argh..I am so sick of it. DH's brother has a history of being inflexible, cancelling at the last minute and just having lame excuses for not beng able to make it. So last week, we sent out invites for Sydney's 1st birthday party. DH and I joked that his brother's family woudldn't come bc it would be during the 18 month old's nap time....

Sure enough, DH gets an email saying they can't make it bc it will be during her nap time and she'll be difficult to deal with if she misses it. WTF? It's not like we invited you to McDonalds to have lunch. It's an f'ing first birthday! Which we did attend their child's first birthday party despite our child screaming in the car the whle way there! So of course, DH offers our guestroom, crib, etc. Nope, no good. And then his brother has the balls to ask if they could come over in the morning b4 the party. Are you f'ing kidding me???? Like I have time to entertain you the morning of my kid's 1st b-day party? Sorry, but I'd like to make the party a pleasant experience for my guests. Therefore, I will be busy cleaning and prepping food b4 hand. And need I remind them that they have two young children so it's not as if they could help me get ready.

It's so typical and yet it is really eating me up bc I'm truly disappointed that they don't feel this is important enough to make an exception.

Maybe there are some of you out there that are gung ho on the strict nap schedule. I understand that. But again, it's your cousin's first birthday party!

I'm trying so hard to continue to be the bigger person, not to decline their invites when it's not "convenient" for us. But it's wearing me thin!

Thanks for listening to my bitch and filthy language!

ETA: This initial post has brought on lot of responses and while I didn't expect it too, I'm glad to see such mature conversation on it and glad that it hasn't turned into the typical "bottle vs. breast" post. Thanks for everyone's imput.

[papal]

Vivian.. you have every reason to be mad!!! That is really very selfish of your BIL.. instead of asking how they can help out at Sydney's first birthday party... they are creating more problems... very self-centered if you ask me. It might be better if they DON't come at all in that case. Hope Sydney has a SUPER birthday, with or without them.

[jbowman]

I'm sorry Vivian, that sounds very selfish to me. I think the nap can be skipped for a birthday party (and frankly, even less important occasions if necessary). I can't imagine being that rigid. That is ridiculous!

I hope that your daughter has a wonderful first birthday!

[Jeanmick]

Could your BIL and family come over after their DD's naptime (I'm assuming that their DD doesn't nap for more than 2 hours at a time) and then stay a little while after the birthday party is over? My family is usually flexible in the past with family/friends who have prior engagements. We've given them the option of coming late to the party. For us, the most important part of the party has been that we get together, even if it's for a little bit. And since it's after the party, you'll not have to do any prep work nor will you have to be expected to fix anything up for them.

My SIL (who is my DS's godmother and is the mother to my children's only cousins) declined my DS's first birthday party because her DH had a four day weekend coming up the same weekend as my DS's party and they wanted to go out of town with the family. Her explanation was that her DH hardly ever has time off like that during the school year (he's a teacher and has summers off) and they wanted to take advantage of it. They missed my DS's first birthday for Knott's Berry Farm and Santa Monica...

Oh well...her loss.



Just my two cents,

[hellokitty1]

Thanks for the suggestion. But they are about an hour away so if they don't come til after the nap, it'll be later and then it would cut in to EVERYONE's bed time, heaven forbid (sorry for my sarcasm).

[MartiesMom2B]

Vivian:

That bites. I can't believe they won't come b/c of her nap schedule. She'd be able to sleep in the car for an hour.

I'm mad for you. Especially since I'm sure that you and your family are expected to attend their child's events! That type of thing is the norm in DH's family.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

[Jeanmick]

What a bummer. It's too bad that they're not as flexible as they could be.

Oh well...I'm sure your DD will still have a memorable birthday!

Families...gotta love 'em! :)

[hellokitty1]

Yeah, I told DH I was gonna start calling them at 2pm everyday to see if they're home since they're apparently home everyday at that time due to the nap schedule.

[deborah_r]

I'm with Sonia - they could just let her nap in the car! I guess some babies won't do that, I don't know...we don't even give it a second thought if we have to drive somewhere during naptime - sometimes we just have to drive around a little longer after reaching the destination until he wakes up.

I guess I can respect having a strict schedule, but I absolutely couldn't do it, so it's just totally alien to me!

[Momof3Labs]

Well, as a mom of a baby who doesn't often nap in the car, and doesn't deal well with deviations from his sleep schedule, I would ask everyone to be a little more understanding of their situation (if it is truly the case, since it sounds like this may just be an excuse and not the truth). Not that you have to like it or agree with it, but the filthy language isn't fair either. Not all babies adjust well to changes in their schedules; you are fortunate if yours does. Just pointing out what it is like on the other side of the fence...

But with some people it is always something: Colin's (teenage) cousins who live five minutes away couldn't even find time to make it to his first birthday party...

[hellokitty1]

As I mentioned in my original post, I understand sleep is important but I think this is important enough to make an exception.

As for filthy language, I had a disclaimer b4 my rant began.

[C99]

OTOH, I agree that it completely sucks. My BIL missed my son's first birthday party because he had a 40th birthday party to attend instead. Hrm, good friend's 40th or your NEPHEW's 1st?!?

But OTOH, I have the kind of baby who doesn't do well when he skips a nap and he doesn't predictably nap in the car, so I understand how hard it can be to make decisions like your BIL just made. BUT, I think someone in his family should make an effort to be there during the party. My niece's 1st birthday was on a Tuesday night *after* Nate usually goes to bed, so in that case, Nate and I skipped it and my husband went instead.

[hellokitty1]

Yes, that's a great alternative that I thought of that but I didn't really feel it was my place to suggest it. Quite honestly, I really won't miss their presence. It's more on principle at this point. BTW, their DD's first birthday was in November and it was at 1pm so her nap was late. Go figure.

[lisams]

Unfortunately DD's nap sometimes prevents us from doing certain things we would like to do. She takes a 2 hour nap and adding an hour drive both ways would probably make the trip hell if she didn't take a nap. I would not enjoy dealing with DD's meltdowns/tantrums and I would be afraid of her ruining the party. I will say that if I were in that family's position, I would send DH with a gift and tell him to send my regrets that I wasn't able to make it. Of course it sounds like they use various excuses frequently so it's hard to be understanding. I hope you have a wonderful time celebrating your DD's first birthday!!! Try not to let one sour apple ruin the day!!

Lisa

[ShayleighCarsensMom]

I am sorry that they are not coming, but I have to agree with them. My daughter is a hardcore napper, and any deviation of her nap schedule (even just one day) throws her (and me) into hysterics. We are often late/miss parties because she naps EVERY day and is in bed EVERY night no later than 8pm.
Maybe you all can meet another time to celebrate...
It sounds like you are not too fond of them in the first place, so for them not to show probably isnt that big of a deal, right??
Enjoy your party!
ETA: WE did skip her nap last month to go to a first birthday party and after several embarassing meltdowns she proceeded to poke holes all over the first birthday girls cake while I went to change her brothers diaper. I walked back into the room and she was knuckle deep in the cake....MORTIFYING!
Valerie

[Sarah1]

Vivian, I can't believe they're missing your daughter's 1st b-day because of a nap. I'm sorry--and I'm VERY rigid when it comes to Audrey's nap schedule--but for special occasions, you make a friggin' exception! That's LIFE. I can only speak for my own child, but my personal feeling is that sometimes you have to be adaptable, otherwise you miss out on LIFE! So the kid might be a little wired, a little fussy. Deal with it! It's a special event for a family member, and you should be there. Period.

As a parent, I think it's important to consider other people's feelings, especially relatives, even at the expense of what might be best for DD on that particular day. For example--did I enjoy driving to the suburbs to have Passover at DH's relatives, keeping Audrey up 2 hours past bedtime, chasing after her as she ran around an un-childproofed house while we attempted to eat a 2-hour meal? (sorry to digress into a bitch of my own here! LOL!) No, but that's LIFE, and as a person you make exceptions for family events like these. I think they're being ridiculous, especially considering how accommodating you've tried to be. And I can't believe they actually suggested coming over the morning of the party! UNBELIEVABLE!

You'll have more fun without them, most definitely! Don't let it spoil your day! :) You have every right to be annoyed IMO!

[Rachels]

Two hours in the car and a missed nap would spell total disaster for us. Abigail would be in meltdown mode throughout your party and she'd scream all the way home, and then her sleep would be a mess for four days. This has become more true the older she's gotten. That said, I'd try to work around it by arriving early and letting her nap at your house, or coming after her nap, or something. I'm sorry they're skipping the whole party, and I think that sucks. But those of you who think it's not a big deal to drive so far with missed naps don't have babies for whom it would REALLY create a problem. I do, so I understand a little...

It's not a matter of it just being "life" and something to "deal with" if it would leave absolutely everyone miseable. Flexibility is sometimes necessary all the way around when you're dealing with babies.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[deborah_r]

Not trying to stir the pot here (like I said before, I can totally respect a strict nap schedule) but for the other posters who said they also have a strict schedule for naps, I'm wondering what happens when you have a schedule like that and then you go on vacation? Especially if there is a time zone change? I guess I'm thinking naps would get screwed up then, but that probably doesn't stop a family from taking a vacation. I would view an important family event along those same lines, I guess.

[Vajrastorm]

>Not trying to stir the pot here (like I said before, I can
>totally respect a strict nap schedule) but for the other
>posters who said they also have a strict schedule for naps,
>I'm wondering what happens when you have a schedule like that
>and then you go on vacation? Especially if there is a time
>zone change? I guess I'm thinking naps would get screwed up
>then, but that probably doesn't stop a family from taking a
>vacation. I would view an important family event along those
>same lines, I guess.

Hmmm, just a guess but I would think for those with kids who have major meltdowns during and after schedule changes, a vacation wouldn't be high on the priority list LOL. How fun is that? A vacation with a hysterical and difficult child?

I am NOT a schedule person by nature. I am very much a fly by the seat of her pants kind of gal, but for the sanity of all I have become a slave to the naps. It isn't a philosophical stand but rather a practical one. So I can completely relate to choosing activities based on sleep schedules. I never thought I'd be "that kind" of parent.

With the original poster's situation, there is a lot more going on than one missed party, however. I think much of her feelings have to do with a history of bad feelings toward BIL and his wife.

[Rachels]

Well we do take vacations, and Abby does have SOME flexibility with her naps. But we don't travel to places where she won't be able to nap, and we haven't tried traveling to other time zones for the same reasons. She won't be a baby forever, KWIM? I parent the child she IS, not the child I wish she would be.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[Melanie]

"I'm wondering what happens when you have a schedule like that and then you go on vacation? Especially if there is a time zone change?"

I had to LOL! I'm a SAHM in California, we don't take time-zone change vacations. We'll be lucky to get a County-change vacation. ;-)

Anyway, we're lucky in that we have a 'car baby,' so he gets his nap in the car and we plan long-ish trips around naptime. Meaning, when we visit GMIL, we leave at naptime so he can nap in the car on the way.

I'm sorry your relatives decision is eating you up, so, please don't let it taint your little one's birthday. If they can't come, it's their loss.

Honestly, I think the fact that they asked to come early, albeit egocentric, is a sign they do want to celebrate with you.

[Sarah1]

>I parent the child she IS, not the child I
>wish she would be.

That's a good point, Rachel.

As I mentioned, I can only speak for my own child, and fortunately, she does OK when we stray from her schedule somewhat, although we hardly ever do. I know some kids are much less adaptable, and everyone's quality of life deteriorates when they get tired and/or fussy.

My point was that I think sometimes, as new moms, we lose perspective, and our worlds can sometimes completely revolve around our child(ren), at the expense of missing out on things that are important for our friends and family members.

[hellokitty1]

It's nice to see everyone's input here. I definitely understand there are some kids that just can't function well if their schedule is messed up. And you are correct when you can tell there is a history with BIL. We scheduled planned a get-together for MIL's b-day (his mom) specifically on a day he could make it for an early lunch based on his schedule. He was s'posed to bring certain food items and DH and I would bring the other half. He calls at 8am Saturday morning to cancel bc his wife doesn't feel well. Okay, then come by yourself or with the kid. Nope, total no show.

There's been mention of napping in the car, etc. We offered our guest bedroom/nursery while they are here but they declined. So of course we mentioned getting together another time, but gee, guess who's having trouble finding a free day?!?!?

Anyway, I will definitely have a geat time with or without them though I'm sure I'll hsve to answer the question of "Where's BIL?" a dozen times. And I guess I'll just have to be truthful and say, "They couldn' make it, their DD had to take a nap."

ETA: The specific reason they can't skip a nap is bc their DD's naps are getting shorter as of late and they're worried that if they skip ONE nap, she'll never nap again. So being cranky from missing a nap was not the reason given.

[momma_boo]

Oh Vivian,

Sorry about the stress. Just what you need when you are planning a party. I just had a fairly big party for Sarah's first b-day (I think we ended up with almost 40 people) and was quite disappointed with how few of DH's cousins came. We are pretty close with them than most families, gettting together on the major holidays. It was pretty disappointing b/c we've gone to all of their kids bar/bat mitzvahs. Not that this is at all comparable (hee, I didn't spend 30,000 on a party like they do! The balloons were my most "extravagant expense"), but she won't be brought up Jewish, so she won't be having one and this was a big deal in terms of parties for the Korean culture. Heck, I had cousins on my side I hadn't seen in 10 years show up! (Sorry, about throwing in my own bitch into your thread).

Despite your history, your BIL is still family and I understand you wanting everyone to be there for Sydney's party.

Don't worry. Have a great time!!

[stella]

I am so with the poster who said she never thought she'd be "that kind of a mother." And it's more true now than it was when I only had one child.

I scoffed at those parents who urged that the baby needs a schedule. I thought they were too rigid and just didn't know how to cope.

Now I turn down invitations left and right for lunches out- because they are so wound up and wild close to naptime. And we leave night-time parties early when a child starts to break down - usually around their bedtimes which is around 7 p.m. Sometimes I'll push them to 8, but we really do pay for it the next day.

As to vacations, they are a REAL challenge at these ages. And a big part of that is having TWO toddlers - I think I could cope with one toddler, but I'm not all that sure anymore. And they don't sleep well in hotel rooms - they know we're in the room and it keeps them from wanting to sleep. The honest truth is that vacations are not that much fun, and therefore not a priority.

But the BIL and SIL sound like they're never flexible or accommodating, so the nap could just be an excuse. I do think it's a far better plan, though, to stay home when you see that the schedule will be a disaster for your child. Because it's not just the child not having any fun - it's YOU! And I have learned this the hard way over and over!

sign me...
Looking forward to vacations again in 3 years!

[kransden]

Katie would just be like Abigail. She would be the meltdown queen and make life horrible for everyone. She would ruin the party. Napping at the house won't work because there is too much going on - no nap equals much screaming. So we would decline as a family, but I would send dh because your dd will only have one 1st birthday party. It just sounds like BIL and family is a jerk.

As for vacations, there is a big difference between that and a party. I can get dd to nap in a strange quiet place i.e. MIL's house. We also don't mess with her schedule too much when we change time zones. She will usually nap around the same time every day. We just make sure we are someplace where she can take her nap.

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[papal]

I agree with you Sarah. We have a pretty rigid nap schedule too, so we don't go out for dinner or to someones house in the evening. BUT, i would always make an exception for special occasions like first birthdays, weddings, reunions etc etc.. at the expense of a missed nap and a meltdown. I just cannot imagine missing out on these things. We are making a trip back to India in October... so there will be considerable time-zone changes.. but I want my 95 year old grandmother to meet my baby, so it is worth it. I think there is fine line between being too rigid and missing out on life. Ofcourse, i have not been in the shoes of a mom whose baby cries continuously in a car... that could be a maddening experience... Leela, luckily, is not so bad about riding in the car (now that we switched to the Roundabout).

[toomanystrollers]

Vivian,

Good Luck to BIL and SIL when they have more than one kid LOL Geez, my poor kids would miss out if they had to stay home everytime Neve napped :)

[mamicka]

I can understand your being irritated but this is obviously much deeper than this incident. I can also understand people who are really rigid in their nap schedule. I happen to have a baby that doesn't want a firm schedule so I don't have that problem.

Don't let this bother you - it sounds like these people would probably irritate, you even if they did come, for some reason or another, & you really don't want them there anyway. Its not that big of a tragedy.

Your childs first birthday is special, yes, but he'll have a birthday every year... its not like he'll remember who was there for his first.
If you truly have a crappy BIL, mourn that, but don't get bogged-down in the details, it will only make you more miserable.

Allison (Mamicka to Lawrence 6/17/03)

[starrynight]

How rude of them!I can't understand why they won't let her nap in the car or something else. I would be upset also. It kinda happens in dh's family with my bil. We go all out and send them nice things for their son and spent a lot on their shower gift but we are lucky to get cards from them sometimes. Some people just prioritize different I guess. (when we lived nearby family a lot of them didn't show u[ for parties etc also but got mad at us if we didn't go to their's.)

I would stop going to some of their parties and get togethers and see if they get the hint that it's rude when they do it.

[tinkerbell1217]

We have that prob also with my DH brother. He is single and STILL doesn't come to get togethers half the time. He missed his sisters DD first bday party and she threw a HUGE fit! He has missed three of my kids bdays also, even after being notified two weeks in advance so he could work it into his BUSY social schedule. One time, he didn't even bother to RSVP at all and one time he did RSVP and "forgot" the day of the party and just didn't show up!

Now that he has a new and steady girlfriend who has a son, they planned a Bday party for him at a park(half an hour away from us) a few weeks ago and sent out email invitations where you RSVP online. Well, the first time she sent them out there was a problem with a few of them, mainly mine, SIL, the other SIL, and somebody else. We didn't get them. He wrote me a nasty email saying he was ticked because nobody replied. Well, he had told my DH about the party anyway and told him the date and all before she ever sent out the invites. So, I politely emailed him back asking him to tell her to resend the invitation. This time I got mine and so did the other people. We promptly RSVP'd no problem. So did SIL #1, but SIL #2 (the one who's DD first bday he didn't make it to) said she had other plans already.

What gets me is the reason he neglects to come to the parties, usually its because he is watching a NASCAR race on TV and BBQ'ing with buddies. One time, it was because he had tickets to a "free" concert at the racetrack. Geez!!! ITS FREE!!!!! Its not like he is losing money over it!

Even when friends invite us to BDay parties we try to have at least one of us attend. If there are scheduling conflicts of any kind, one of us goes to one event, the other goes to the other event.

Honestly, I know some kids are rigid schedule makers and will have meltdowns otherwise, but whatever happened to maintaining control of the situation?? I don't let my kids rule every aspect of my life. Certain situations, of course. If they are sick or something, of course thats a concern. But, kids (unless they are very small babies or infants) do need to be able to adapt somewhat to diff situations, don't they?? Luckily, I haven't had too many problems in that dept over the years with my two. Don't know how the next one will be, but I hope to have a child that is easily adaptable. Life calls for adaptation to situations. I just do not think the child should be in control of everything. To me, missing one nap shouldn't throw a kid off for days. They might have at least "TRIED" one of your suggestions, like using the guest room, letting her nap in the car.

I know I will probably get blasted for saying this stuff, but I have raised easily adaptable teenagers just fine with my style of doing things. Even with a challenging DS with physical and mental handicaps. He is not always the easiest, believe me, but I refused to let him throw tantrums, even when he was tired or overdue for a nap, and if he did, I took the situation under control and he learned it wasn't appropriate behavior. Sure, maybe he was tired, but thats not an excuse to act up in public or throw a fit. I never yelled or spanked either. He just knew I meant business. There has been many a time he has had a meltdown in a busy store like WalMart or something and I have had to deal with people looking at me to "control" my kid. Believe me, its tough. There have been times I have said, "take a picture" to these people too. BUT, I know I handled it the right way, especially when instead of staring at my DS or at me, this woman came up to me when he had a tantrum and told me how wonderful she thought I was for the way I handled my son and how nice it was to see a parent not "give in" or let the child control them or the situation. That made me feel like I was a good parent and doing something right. I mean, I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, but sometimes I just felt overwhelmed and wasn't sure if I could take it another minute!! I was a single mom back then too so it made me feel even better about my parenting skills. I guess I needed validation at the time! I know small babies can't help it and that crying is the only way they can let you know whats up, I understand, really I do. But a toddler is a diff story. Just MHO. I see from reading the boards here, I have a totally diff parenting style than so many of you. I don't agree with alot that is said, but one thing remains, your child does come first, I agree. BUT, that said, that child needs to learn to be adaptable sometimes. Otherwise they will miss out on so much and so will the parents too. Not just bday parties, but school activities and playgroups, etc.. Life calls for compromise and adaptations. I think its best for them to learn at an early age. As soon as they can start to understand these concepts.

Sounds to me like your BIL is just being a jerk !! Like somebody else said, what if they have another child??? What will they do then?? I hate to think about it!

Have a wonderful first bday party for your DD. It only comes once!! :)



Kelly

[Momof3Labs]

Same here - we plan vacations no more than one time zone away, and make sure that we have arrangements (like a suite or two bedroom condo) so that Colin can get his naps. We also pick airline flights around his sleep schedule to make it easier on everyone (him, us and our fellow passengers). I also never thought that I would be this way as a mom, but my child's needs come first - even if it means taking a less exciting vacation or declining some invitations.

[deborah_r]

>"I'm wondering what happens when you have a schedule like
>that and then you go on vacation? Especially if there is a
>time zone change?"
>
>I had to LOL! I'm a SAHM in California, we don't take
>time-zone change vacations. We'll be lucky to get a
>County-change vacation. ;-)
>


Oh, I'm not jet-setting it either, believe me fellow Californian! I guess living in California in my one-bedroom apt is supposed to be reward enough in life, ha-ha! But I do have family on the east coast and will need to take DS there soon (I've avoided the trip as long as I can get away with, I think) And it does seem there are a lot of people on these boards asking about this and that vacation spot, so I guess I kind of thought everybody but me was vacationing all over!!! :)

I was actually asking what I asked because I was saying earlier my DS doesn't need a strict schedule, but maybe I have never tried offering him a stricter schedule. Maybe he would sleep better at night if I kept the schedule tighter. It's just so hard with playgroup and stuff during the week (and then sometimes people want to go out to lunch after and I feel bad for always saying, no, DS has to take a nap), or if I need to go shopping, and then the weekends are hard because DH has no concept of the baby being on a schedule and just wants to go anywhere, anytime. Although we never keep him out after 7pm, usually home earlier.

[Vajrastorm]

> To me, missing one nap shouldn't
>throw a kid off for days.

I'm not trying to blast you. In a certain sense I agree - missing a nap *shouldn't* throw a kid off for days. In an ideal world. :) Unfortunately, for some kids it does. I don't see this as a parenting issue but a personality issue.

Adaptability is a great trait. And certainly one that we can encourage in our children (and ourselves). But a child who adapts poorly to changes cannot be MADE into an adaptable child just because we as parents find it preferable.

[mamicka]

I agree, surprisingly, with your basic point, Kelly - our children shouldn't be in charge & we shouldn't cater to their every yawn. I think that can be extreme to the point of spoiling the child in a sense. But we also need to apply that same principle to our own lives. We also, as adults, don't always get our way & to let it upset us so much is just plain silly. If the BIL is a jerk, then he's a jerk. Why would he change for your child's first birthday party? It's not HIS child, it's YOUR child, so he's obviously not going to care as much as you do. On top of that, he's a jerk, so he cares even less. Why would he change & start to care just because it upsets you?

Allison (Mamicka to Lawrence 6/17/03)

[tinkerbell1217]

Allison, were you thinking I was the one who started this thread?? :) It was Vivian if you didn't know. I just wondered because it sounded like you were directing the last part of your post at me too. I agree, he probably won't change, but for example, in my family, they are so BIG on family things and get togethers and everyone being there that when this particular person skips things or doesn't bother showing up when he is aware of the plans, it really ticks off his mother(my MIL) and his sisters and its beginning to tick my DH off too. ESPECIALLY now that he has a somewhat "step son" and when someone couldn't come to the kids bday party he threw a fit about it. I have learned to "get over it". I am not close with him, never have been, neither is my DH really at all. BUT, I have to say...when he missed my DD 11th bday party, 6 months after missing my DS 10th bday party, well, my DD was really upset!!! At that point, he had been spending time with my DD every few weeks, taking her to movies or to water parks. So, for him to miss her bday really hurt her feelings. In turn, it hurt my feelings AND my DH too. I agree, a first bday is not as big a deal in the sense that the child will not remember, but for parents its a huge thing!

Its all about common courtesy among family members. I stand by me thought that Vivian's BIL should have handled things differently or maybe at least TRIED her suggestion of using the guest room.


"Adaptability is a great trait. And certainly one that we can encourage in our children (and ourselves). But a child who adapts poorly to changes cannot be MADE into an adaptable child just because we as parents find it preferable."


Andrie, you are right, you can't "make" a child into something they are not, but I feel sorry for the parents who end up having to live every aspect of their lives according to how their child naps. I know that sounds harsh, I don't mean it to be, but it seems strange to me to go through something like that. Besides, from what Vivian said, BIL is just trying to take advantage of the few naps this kid will have now that she seems to be outgrowing naptime. Thats just plain ridiculous.

I adapt to accomodate my kids schedules all the time, but I still make sure they know that sometimes THEY need to adapt to me and my schedule. Yes, my kids are older now, but its been that way since they could understand the concept. When they were young babies, sure I would make sure they had their naps by a certain time, but if it didn't work out and I had a cranky kid, it wasn't the end of the world and if it was in public or at a friend's bday party or get together I handled it. If we had to leave a bit early, so be it, they understood. Or, I would let my kid take a nap in a bedroom nobody was using. No big deal.

I knew somebody would blast me, at least a little, like I said, I seem to have diff parenting ideas than most of you and whats worked for me may not work for everyone, of course. My kids mean the world to me, I would give up my life to save theirs, but that being said, I know my kids are well adjusted, easily transitioned and capable of handling just about anything, and pretty much have been for a long time. I am just not willing to let my kids rule everything from home, to parties, to car trips, to shopping, etc.

Nuff said! :)


Kelly

[mamicka]

OK - I just typed my response & then the post was lost so here's the short version.

Kelly, I didn't mean to direct anything but the first statement to you, sorry. & I wasn't flaming you.

I stick with my first response... "A jerk is not coming to the party? ...WOOHOOO!!!"

ETA: OK, I'm back. One more comment about my previous post: The "you"s were general, not specific to anyone. & I don't see how I was flaming anyone, no matter how you read it. I just disagreed. Does disagree = flame?

I'm surprised that this thread has been so much about napping, because Vivian's problem really had nothing to do with napping. He probably doesn't want to/can't come to the party for some other reason & is using the nap as an excuse. I've heard that tactic suggested to lots of people on this board & off... Use the child & your neurotic parenting as an excuse.

Yes, its important to teach your child to be adaptable but this applies to more than just naps. How about being adaptable to relationships not being what you expected/hoped for? Seems to me that's a much more important lesson than: "you don't get to be cranky if you don't get your nap". I know, that's a simplification, just making a point.

Allison (Mamicka to Lawrence 6/17/03)

[hellokitty1]

There's been so much talk about napping that I think even I forgot the original point. Perhaps this entire issue bothers me much more than others bc of the history. My in-laws, entire clan, are very, very religiious (is that PC to say). In fact, I often think his in-laws think I'm a heathen since I didn't have a Christian upbringing. Anyway, growing up I always thought Christians were somewhat hypocritical bc my thought was if Christianity was so great, why were they so judgemental to people, like gays or people that didn't go to church. I have since learned that while some Christians can be over-the-top, not all are.

Anyway, to make a long story short, BIL's family is very religious and IMO, leans strongly towards the over-the-top side and it is just truly disappointing that when I think of them, it tends to make me question again, how they can preach love and kindness and yet be so uncaring about family get togethers. And we won't even get into the fact that they spend much more time with HER family. How about this for tackiness - for baby's 1st x-mas they gave the grandparents a framed picture of the baby but in the picture, the other grandmother was holding her. How tacky.

Anyway, I digress. Overall, I think that BIL's family slights BIL's parents and in the end, DH and I have to make up for it which is unfair.

Okay, I just heard the timer go off. I guess my shrink session is over for today. Just send me the bill.

[deborah_r]

> How about this for tackiness -
>for baby's 1st x-mas they gave the grandparents a framed
>picture of the baby but in the picture, the other grandmother
>was holding her. How tacky.
>

I can't believe they did that! That is incredibly thoughtless!

[kransden]

Is this the same BIL that wouldn't go to the christening, or was that someone else?

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[Melanie]

That's rude!

[papal]

I AGREE!!!! Do you think the pictures got switched around or something? Maybe the second granny recieved a picture of the first granny? I cannot imagine why they would do something so thoughtless... i am just hoping they made a mistake!

[mamicka]

That's really terrible. Sounds like there might be some issues between the BIL's wife & the BIL's parents. I've seen that among my relatives & it sucks b/c everyone's affected by it.

Allison (Mamicka to Lawrence 6/17/03)

[tinkerbell1217]

I just wasn't sure if you were generalizing the post or not, I didn't think you were flaming, gosh no! :) No worries, I think you are right about the guy just being ajerk too. It wouldn't get me PO'd for more than a minute! But thats just me!


Of course disagree does not mean flame!


Kelly

[tinkerbell1217]

Vivian, I am totally with you on that. Seems there is much more preference for the other part of the family to me and that picture thing at Christmas WAS tacky!

AND, I also totally agree with you on the Christian thing too, I was raised Baptist and attended a Christian school for most of middle and high school and experienced first hand the hypocrisy (sp??) that goes along with it. Many are judgmental and hypocritical. Sounds like a one sided relationship to me!!! Much much luck and great times for your party!!!


Kelly

[hellokitty1]

No, the pictures weren't mixed up. It just indicates that the other grandma got to be really involved and the other grandparents didn't - thus no picure of new baby with other set of grandparents.

How about another tacky thing? DH and I got engaged on Jan 1/1 and planned our wedding date for 11/11 of the same year. BIL got engaged in April of the same year and set their weeding date for three weeks b4 ours.

I was pissed.

[hellokitty1]

>Is this the same BIL that wouldn't go to the christening, or
>was that someone else?
>
No, that must be someone else but we did decline the christening of their DD bc DH likes to sleep in on Sundays.


Only kidding. We had just had our baby like a couple weeks before and I was not sending DH off for the day to attend. I thought that was a good enough reason to decline.

[mamicka]

I agree that many Christians are hypocritical... but I highly doubt that its a higher percentage than of the general population or any other group of people. Let's be fair.

Allison (Mamicka to Lawrence 6/17/03)

[Melanie]

ITA.

[hellokitty1]

>I agree that many Christians are hypocritical... but I highly
>doubt that its a higher percentage than of the general
>population or any other group of people. Let's be fair.

Looks like the content of the pot has now changed from napping to hypocrisy among Christans. I don't beleive Kelly nor I implied that "most" Christians were hypocritical. I only referenced it in terms of growing up in a non-Christian household and my perceptions of the world around me. And Kelly had first-hand experience with it growing up in a Christian school - two very different environments. Anyway, I'm not stating facts or statistics here, just stating my perception (when I was a kid). After all, whether we like it or not, perception is reality.

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I so don't have anything to say on this topic in the thread so this has nothing to do with this thread...
But I did want to say that I think I raise (or lucked out I am not certain which) my son much like you describe...my goal has always been to have him join us in our life style and for the most part he has :)...

I have started to realize I might have lucked out but it was my goal before he was born and if needs to nap he naps where we are going :)
I never once said said that I can't make anything due to a nap I don't think ...

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[spu]

I feel your pain... we had to rearrange our twins' christening because my BIL and his wife, who were godparents, didn't want to fly out for the event... (costs $, yet they would fly to vegas, utah, seattle etc to go to friend's bachelor parties, etc...) so we changed the date for 3 monts later to have it over the holidays, and even at that, we had to pitch in for their flight even though they were flying home anyways, because it would have been cheaper if they flew home on a monday rather than a saturday (and the christening was on a sunday!)

fwiw - they don't have kids of their own, and I'm assuming that once they do, they will begin to understand, but then again, sometimes people never change.


susan

twin girls 7.20.02
charlotte + else

http://sunger2.home.comcast.net/bash/nonflash/year.html

[mamicka]

I didn't say "most" either. I understood what you both were saying.
>I have since learned that while some Christians can be over-the-top, >not all are.
I appreciated that comment which is why I didn't respond to your post.

>I was raised Baptist and attended a Christian school for most of >middle and high school and experienced first hand the hypocrisy
>(sp??) that goes along with it.
To me, this implies that hypocrisy is somehow linked to Christianity & that it isn't the norm. Hypocrisy is part of humanity, in all its flavors.

I realize that this has become off-topic but I don't believe that its OK to make comments painting certain groups of people in a bad light & then let those statements go unchallenged.

Allison (Mamicka to Lawrence 6/17/03)

[mamicka]

Sorry, double post.

[C99]

>togethers. And we won't even get into the fact that they spend
>much more time with HER family.

The photograph thing is in very poor taste, but IME, women are usually the planners and keepers of the social calendar. They are also closer to their own families than to their married families (or in-laws) and therefore plan more time with their families than w/ their in-laws. I know that I am closer to my parents than my in-laws and if it weren't for the fact that I live in the same area as my in-laws and 800 miles away from my parents, Nate would spend more time with my parents. My BIL spends a lot more time with his wife's family than w/ my in-laws. And I have to be very vocal about seeing my brother when he is in town, because his wife's family also lives in the same area and they dominate their time.

[Melanie]

ITA, and Vivian, I made an entire post stating this (which disappeared), but it was not your statement/post that I was objecting to.

--Melanie who will go before her fingers can't keep their trap shut

[Rachels]

Let's keep in mind, though, that this wasn't simply a question of missing a nap. As one of the parents who responded that my baby wouldn't do well with this situation, it was a whole package-- a missed nap plus a long drive in the car (which she never tolerates well) plus a party atmosphere and a lot of people she doesn't know well, then another long drive. All that put together would throw her.

Everybody, please be careful what you judge. Everyone would love to have an easy baby that naps anywhere and goes anywhere, but not all babies are like that, and it's not anyone's fault. With responsive parents, it's also not a bad thing or even particularly a problem.

As for the religion thing, ack, let me don my moderator cap for a second and just remind everyone to play nicely with others. :) This is the kind of thing that could spin out of control, but let's not let it.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[mamicka]

I'm with you, Rachel on not judging parenting styles. Some ways my baby is easy, others... not so much. I can't stand it when others assume that what works for their baby should work for mine or it's somehow my fault.

I don't want to cause an argument over religion. Sorry if I've started something, I was trying to stop an unfair bandwagon.

Allison (Mamicka to Lawrence 6/17/03)

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Why on Earth is a moderator comment about religion and judging anyone under my thread clearly marked in the subject line "Kelly" to Kelly with no mention of religion and clearly no mention of judgement...
I certainly didn't mention religion...and most certainly didn't judge...
I think if you are donning a moderator cap on this one you need to be specific as to where you are responding for my thread does neither clearly....

I think it's clear my post avoided this topic like a hot potato, and I stand by what I wrote and to whom I addressed it to for it clearly is 100% about me and not influencing or giving any advice to anyone... but to throw a moderator thread under my post that clearly is not slamming religion bothers me ...

Edited to say I assume that is an error...
My post left no room for anyone to try to clarify anything they do or they don't I for one could care a less how naps anyones kids take, how many schedules they are on how often they cry etc....
My post was 100% about me and no one else and specifically to a community member with her name in the subject line...


Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[Rachels]

Sorry, Neve, I didn't intend it to sound like it was aimed at you, and it wasn't. I was down toward the end of the thread and commenting on the thread as a whole. I didn't notice the changed subject line. I clicked reply after reading your nap thing, but had just read the thread and felt it important to ask for diplomacy if the religion discussion continues. It didn't make sense to post twice since the mod thing is truly just a friendly reminder, anyway. But it wasn't aimed at you at all.

That's why I said "Everybody."



-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I guess I tried so hard to stay out of it that I just didn't want to be dragged into it :)...
Anyway I assumed and thank you for clarifying!!!
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[redhookmom]

If one of my brothers has a baby and invites my family to the first birthday party you better believe we would be there.

EVERYBODY UP AND INTO THE CAR!!!!

There are certain invitations that we will decline because of naps but there are certain events that I am willing to throw everything out of whack for.

[lisams]

Yeah, I can wish until my eyes pop out that DD was a quick to warm up child who transitioned nice and smoothly but the truth is she is a slow to warm up/emotionally intense child - those things I have no control over (I do have control over how I react, though). When I was teaching I learned VERY quickly that no two children are alike, therefore no two "philosophies" on handling the behavior are. You take what you have and adjust it so it works in favor of everyone.

Having a toddler is humbling - I have learned not to judge others. I admit that there was a time when I would say "my child will not throw tantrums". Now I know that is something I have no control over but I do have control over making sure certain things are in favor of her not exploding (like not letting her get over hungry or over tired) and how I handle the situation. I don't see that as teaching her to control me, I see that as meeting her needs just as I would grab a snack if I were hungry. I don't drop everything in my life to meet her needs, I just make sure it gets done before a "situation" occurs.

I also agree that we need to be careful about judging how parents handle the children they have. Just because a child is easily affected from missing a nap doesn't mean the parents are not parenting the "right" way. I mean really, you put child A in the carseat for an hour and he dozes off. You put child B in the carseat and he screams the entire way. It's about temperament, not good or bad parenting skills/choices.

And back to the original post, I don't see it being about napping, but about a person who *always* has to have things on his terms, no room for compromise. Vivian even said that the child was taking shorter naps so they could at least come late to the party after the child had her short nap, or leave early to get her home for her short nap. She has every reason to be upset. I think most people (including those who have kiddos who need their naps) would find a way to work something out to be a part of this special occasion.

Lisa

[hellokitty1]

Allison, you're right. I shouldn't have said "most" in my post. I just wanted to clarify in that post that that was my perception growing up. Not to say imply it was accurate or not.
sorry about that.

[hellokitty1]

>Everybody, please be careful what you judge.

Perhaps I'm the only one who feels this way, but I haven't felt like anyone here has judged anyone. I feel like people have just stated whether or not they would make an exception to attend a party and alter one's schedule.

As for the religion piece, I certainly didn't bring it up for the sake of discussion. I was just trying to share some of my personal frustration over BIL and my underlying feelings. And I haven't felt "offended" by anyone's response.

I have appreciated all perspectives and haven't once felt like this post is headed towards the need to lock. JMHO, so hopefully it won't.

Thanks.

[Melanie]

You know, I just have one more thing (yeah right, LOL) to add about the nap thing. I *DO* think it's a strange excuse, not that she would miss her nap and be upset, but that if she missed it they are afraid she'll never nap again. LOL.

Anyway, we've got family members and friends just like you describe your BIL, I just try to tell myself, "they're loss," and it really is.

[hellokitty1]

>You know, I just have one more thing (yeah right, LOL) to add
>about the nap thing. I *DO* think it's a strange excuse, not
>that she would miss her nap and be upset, but that if she
>missed it they are afraid she'll never nap again. LOL.

Yeah, I thought that was kind of weird.

[stella]

And that is really what I think this is about!

It's sad that the BIL's family won't make an exception for the child's special birthday, but for whatever reason, they don't want to or (in the case of a difficult child) feel like they can make an exception.

I agree with the poster (Lisams, I think), who said that keeping your child comfortable (rested and fed) goes a long way toward avoiding meltdowns. And I don't think I would push it as far as "as long as he has all the candy he wants and is calling the shots, we're all okay", but I try to avoid situations that stress my children, and therefore me. Staying up too late, missed naps, long stretches without real food, the one more errand that I drag them on. Ultimately I pay for the bad behavior, that had I been thinking pro-actively, could have been avoided. And I am very selfish about the kind of child-related stress I expose myself to. I have learned the hard way. My children are generally (note the disclaimer) well-behaved in public, but they were not at 10 p.m. on the airplane on Easter Sunday, and I knew to expect that, but it was unavoidable.

I still think the BIL sounds like a selfish jerk and this is just one more instance.

I am very careful not to assume that I know best for everyone else's child (not that any of you do - it's just been on my mind a lot lately!). I think you can aspire to teach them to be flexible, adaptable and well-behaved, and if you're lucky, it will work. But they are such individuals!

And the other thing I realized back when my first was a little baby is that if I got to take credit for his "good" behavior (as in he's so good because I'm such a great mother) that I had to stand ready to blame my bad parenting when he didn't respond like I thought he should. And I wasn't ready to go there - for example, bad parenting doesn't cause colic.

Sorry this is so long and rambling - it's just been a very interesting thread and I've enjoyed following it!

[tinkerbell1217]

Thats exatcly how I meant it and I don't think I ever said anything about "all" or "most" Christians, just alot of the ones I grew up around. I was just supporting how you felt!

Kelly

[tinkerbell1217]

Okay maybe I should have said the hypocrisy that "SOMETIMES" goes along with it. Geez, sorry!


Kelly

[tinkerbell1217]

ITA! I mean, if its just a playdate with somebody I see often, thats one thing, but a family evet as inportant as a first bday or christening, at least IMO, is something I will get myself in the car for and deal with whatever happens along the way. That was my whole point, maybe I got sidetracked trying to explain why but thats just me. And, like I said before, my parenting style is totally diff than most of you here, but when I do voice my "opinion" (which is all it is), I really felt blasted by some comments. Sure, every kid is diff. You do what you gotta do, but I won't apologize for not letting my kids rule every aspect of my life.

Thats what I believe and I guess I am in the minority!


Kelly

[hellokitty1]

I don't think you're in the minority.

In some ways, for my personal situation, I view my BIL not wanting to come as more selfish on his part and less for the well-being of the child. (Note: this requires some deep round-about thought.) I've come to this conclusion bc I know his child would love to be at the party. It's the parents that don't want to deal with the consequences. Does that make sense? For example, on New Year's Eve, we were up till 10:30pm. My kid was having a great time playing but I knew I'd pay for it the next day. But since she was having a good time, I was willing to pay for it the next day. Yeah, I know some people are thinking, "well, a baby doesn't know they shoud be in bed at 10:30pm; it's up to the parent to define that for the child." But if that's the case, then I challenge (not literally) the same people to the question of "do you go by your kid's flow or your flow?"

Anyway, I think it's the BIL not willing to make the sacrifice. He's not really thinking of his kid, just himself.

Again, JMHO about MY BIL (not every BIL in the world).

[Sarah1]

>There are certain invitations that we will decline because of
>naps but there are certain events that I am willing to throw
>everything out of whack for.

Exactly my initial point.

I kinda feel like this thread was a little bit co-opted by people looking to justify and defend their kids' napping habits. And I say this as a person who is a FREAK about naps and sleep in general--but I would not miss a close friend or relative's birthday party because of it.

I'm not trying to judge anybody here...hey, I understand a child's need to nap, and I honestly feel bad for those of you who have kids who just aren't adaptable enough to miss a nap for a party like this. It's sad. If you were my friend, I'd be sad for you, and I'd be sad you missed my party.

And if you missed a nap so that you could come to Audrey's birthday, and your kid was totally hysterical, I would feel very lucky to have a friend who put my kid's birthday ahead of their kid's needs on that particular day. It would mean a lot.

[Vajrastorm]

>I kinda feel like this thread was a little bit co-opted by
>people looking to justify and defend their kids' napping
>habits. And I say this as a person who is a FREAK about naps
>and sleep in general--but I would not miss a close friend or
>relative's birthday party because of it.

Ah, but on the other hand I don't think we'd have spent 8 pages discussing what a jerk the BIL is :P

I hope the "sidetracking" didn't offend anyone, but I've found the discussion interesting!

I don't think anyone doubts BIL is a selfish person :)

[Melanie]

>
>I'm not trying to judge anybody here...hey, I understand a
>child's need to nap, and I honestly feel bad for those of you
>who have kids who just aren't adaptable enough to miss a nap
>for a party like this. It's sad. If you were my friend, I'd
>be sad for you, and I'd be sad you missed my party.

..and the flipside is that *I* would feel really sad for a child who's parents don't give their emotional/physical/mental health billing over a social obligation. I guess that's why they say it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. If we all agreed on everything, what would we have to talk about?

[tinkerbell1217]

I still think it depends on what the social obligation is. If its family, I say its important. I really don't think a child missing their nap once or twice in their lives is going to cause physical or mental/emotional harm that lasts a lifetime. Or at least it shouldn't. And like someone else said, I feel sad for parents who have to turn down something like a family party invitation because of a nap schedule. I just don't get it and I guess I never will! Thats my last .02! :)

You are right, what would we have to talk about!


Kelly

[Kieransmom]

I understand that frustration. My SIL would not go to our wedding and won't be at our son's 1st birthday party because of naptimes.

Michelle
Mommy to Kieran, born 5/9/03

[tinkerbell1217]

Oh Michelle, I would be upset too!! Couldn't they have gotten a babysitter for your wedding??? That stinks!!


Kelly

[C99]

>Oh Michelle, I would be upset too!! Couldn't they have gotten
>a babysitter for your wedding??? That stinks!!

Sometimes it's just not possible. My brother's wedding was last September, when Nate was about 7-months-old and we were just really establishing bed times, etc. The wedding was an hour away from where we live and the reception was 3 hours after the wedding -- and a half hour away from the church. Nate still breastfed every 3 hours at that point. There was no way that I could get a babysitter for him for 10 hours. We took him to the wedding, took him to the reception and left pretty much right after dinner, or around 9 p.m. It took us 90 minutes to get home and he was so tired that he did NOT fall asleep in the car. His little system was messed up for the next week; it was horrible. If it hadn't been my brother's wedding, I wouldn't have gone.

[Sarah1]

>>The wedding was an hour away from where we live and the reception was 3 hours after the wedding.

What a NIGHTMARE! I have never understood why people schedule receptions so many hours after the actual wedding...I assume it has to do with when the church is available, etc. That really makes it hard for people. What are you supposed to do in those three hours? Go sit at a Starbucks with your 7 month old and drink 10 cups of coffee while he screams?

BTW, I love that this is the thread that just WILL NOT DIE...and I clearly am helping it achieve this status...

[Melanie]

Oh, that drives me batty! Unless there's something I don't know, I think receptions hours after an event (wedding, bar-mitzvah) are SO unthoughtful.

[MelissaTC]

Sometimes it is just logistics. Our wedding ceremony was at 2 pm but our cocktail hour did not begin until 6 pm. The ceremony was in Westchester and the reception was in Queens. Throw in some lovely Whitestone Bridge summer Saturday afternoon back-up coupled with a late floral delivery, photos in front of the church, etc.. and the timing worked out perfectly. To help with the gap in time, we set up a coffee hour at 5 pm so that way, people were able to basically drive straight from the ceremony to the hotel and get a drink and a little snack. MANY people took advantage of that! LOL. But it was so worth it.

My cousins were the flower girl and ring bearer and at the time, they were 2 and 4. They were pooped out by dinner. But so was I! LOL...

[Kieransmom]

Her kids were 8,5 and 2 at the time.

[tinkerbell1217]

Well, with time frames like that I totally understand!! I can't see why people schedule a reception that far after the wedding!! Certain situations are definitely diff than others!! Poor Nate!!! Poor mom and dad! That must have been rough!



Kelly

PS See, I am not so rigid in my beliefs!! :)

[C99]

Sarah,

I know. It was one of my biggest pet peeves when I was planning my own wedding and I still have a big issue with it to this day. I protested loudly about it, but I didn't get a vote. The worst thing about it was that my brother got married in the *same* church as the one I got married in and we're not Roman Catholic so it wasn't an issue of the church only being available at a certain time. They only do one wedding/day and there is no 5 o'clock mass.

What we did in the 2 hours between wedding and reception was sit in the church pews while the photographer took photos of the B&G with *every single one* of my SIL's 200 family members (while my baby is getting more and more tired and crankier and crankier....) before he got to the *five* people in my family.

But...you know...what can you expect from a pair of 22-year-olds who sent out their reception cards to read "adult reception"???

[Sarah1]

>But...you know...what can you expect from a pair of
>22-year-olds who sent out their reception cards to read "adult
>reception"???

Clearly, NOT MUCH!

How embarrassing.