Well yes there is a stigma against SAHD's at least on one Dallas board

[flagger]

When I first moved here, I started taking Cocoa to the mall where I posted pics of that cool play area. I overheard two people talking about a message board for dallas moms. I joined the website and posted a introduction (which still remains even now) and was starting to get to know some of the moms and their kids.

There was a change in management and without warning in the middle of the night, my account was deleted and a notice was posted on the board. I then had an email exchange between the new admin. After receiving her response, Ms. Flagger elected to post the exchange as well as leave the group:

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v155/ezcry4t3d/Friends/DAMResponse.png

Frankly, I have no problem with a site for women only, but I do not like being welcomed on board and then having my account deleted with no warning, no indication and no email stating the reasons why. Here's the kicker, all but three forums are visible to the public at large. Men may not be able to respond to the posts, but everyone, their mother and their dog can read what women think is being posted privately. Even the admin has admitted as such.

Such attitudes in 2004 frankly disturb me to no end, but sadly it proves that there is in fact still a stigma against SAHD's.

[Vajrastorm]

Wow. I mean, "WOW."

I find it mind boggling that there are people out there like that. It is so far out there for me, somewhere along the lines of Blue Martians over for dinner.

If I had the ability to make more money than my husband, he would be at home and I would be at work. He'd love to be a SAHD. Scary to think this is how SAHD's get treated. No, not scary - infuriating.

[TaChapm]

Wow! I am in shock. I can't believe that someone can be so rude about you being a SAHD. I think it is great that you get to stay with Cocoa. It benefits her to have a parent (mom or dad) at home with her rather than her being in someone else's care or day care if it is possible. (I know it isn't alwyas an option). This lady needs a serious reality check. Good for you and Ms Flagger for fighting back. People need to be warned about this lady.
Tara
Mommy to Jackson 11-10-02

[khakismom]

I am absolutely floored at her attitude, and esp. her comment that it should be the moms home anyway. What is this, 1953?

I'm glad you are getting out of there. I'm sure it is very disappointing and disheartening to be treated this way, but you and Ms. Flagger deserve much better.

[peanut4us]

That's unreal... what is she living in the 50s? Ok Mrs. Cleaver. Sheesh.

Scott just joined an Austin SAHD group and went on a hike with the guys and kids this week. They were all very cool (Scott reported), but they did caution Scott about getting involved with mom's groups. Almost all of the guys were burned hard by such groups. Similar to you, they were welcomed in and then a new mom would join and be "uncomfortable" with the guy. So the guy was the one kicked out. nice. way to go ladies. Also, one guy who has a kindergarten age child and a toddler said that he was "kicked out" when his kid was old enough to go on play dates... because no one felt like their kid should go to a house with a man at home... To a certain extent I agree with that... but I don't want Sara going to a home with a woman in it unless I know her damn well too. I think if I had known that dad for 3 years as these women had, I would be fine with it. puhleaz folks.

Sorry you had to deal with that... are there any Dallas SAHD groups? on slowlane?

[bluej]

Okay, the whole thing really has me burning. But the one that is really getting under my skin is her comment about the mom being the one who should be home. What? Why? Really, why is it the mom who should be home? It's hard for me to admit this, but DH has far more patience than I do. There are times I think it would be better for our kids (not our finances!) if he were the one at home with them. I would like to hear one solid reason as to why the dad shouldn't be home with the kids. Does she think dads are an inferior parent?

I'm sorry you had to experience this Flagger. Good for you and Ms. Flagger for not going away silently but letting the members know what is going on in their web community.

[pritchettzoo]

That's sad and disgusting. I hope you can find some people in the area who aren't so judgmental about your choices ("the mom should be the one home anyways.") I think anyone who reads your posts here (and since you don't seem the chameleon type) or elsewhere knows that you adore your daughter and are focused on what you think is best for her (i.e., you don't come across as a lech who's just into hanging out with women).

I showed this to DH who's now singing a song about a certain Uncle from Southpark dedicated to that twerp... ;) He'd love to be home with DD!

One of my favorite Dorothy Parker quotes is brought to mind, "You can lead a horticulture, but you cannot make her think."

Not that you're looking for pats on the back, but I think Cocoa is a lucky gal. She's getting a unique experience thanks to your being comfortable enough to buck tradition and stereotypes.

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

[redhookmom]

That's insane!! Run, don't walk, far away from that group. You wouldn't want Cocoa to be exposed to such odious views.

You would be WELCOME at our playgroup anytime!!

[deborah_r]

That is SO not cool! Maybe we should all go raid Little Ms. Shanna's board and drive her crazy! (Did I just say that? :P

[pritchettzoo]

Ya know, I thought of that too. I just figured Flagger would be blamed for it, and he knows some of these people IRL. So we can just be trolls in spirit! :P

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

[deborah_r]

Good point. I will refrain.

[lisaE]

WOW!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Flagger happily walk away from there...it really sounds like a women that you should prefer not to even be in a social circle of...
I am sorry that you and the MRS had to even witness or be a part of that ladies obvious problems...

You are doing what is right for you and your family, and Cocoa seems to be perfect for it!!!!


Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[Marisa6826]

Chuck-

That just flat out sucks the big one. I'm so sorry that you're encountering such closeminded shrews. Sure you don't want to move back northeast to be with us liberals? :P

Know that you're always welcomed here.

big hugs to my favourite troublemaker ;)

-m

[Kieransmom]

Unbelievable. This lady has issues. It's sad that in this day and age someone like this can run a board like that. Well, we're glad you're here with us. Stay at home parents are stay at home parents. It's a hard job and we all need to support eachother no matter what sex.

Michelle
Mommy to Kieran, born 5/9/03

[Momof3Labs]

Unbelievable. My DH is a part-time SAHD (we work kinda opposite shifts) and I KNOW that Colin is thriving under his care, just as he is under my care when I am home with him. And I know many other children that are thriving under the "part-time" or "full-time" care of their daddy.

The thing that infuriates me even more is that this woman's children are being raised with these attitudes.

[smomom]

Wow. That is unbelievable. You're more than welcome to stay here and cause trouble. :) I quite like having you around - and I think Cocoa and Mrs. Flagger are two very lucky ladies.

[lrucci]

WOW! I'm still trying to pick my jaw up from that one. I can't believe Shanna wrote that. Even if it was her thought, she should have kept it to herself. Good for Mrs. Flagger posting something about the situation. I hope others have taken her lead and left the group also.

Lisa
Mom to Kyleigh Elizabeth 7/19/03

[hobey]

Sheesh. That judgmental b*&^% just set the women's movement back about 60 years....I'm sorry you had to deal with that and bravo to you & Ms. Flagger for fighting back.

Raquel
Nathan's Mom 12/19/03

[jubilee]

Flagger that is awful! Good for you for fighting back.

I was talking to another stay at home dad recently and he mentioned liking this book "How Tough Could It Be? : The Trials and Errors of a Sportswriter Turned Stay-at-Home Dad" by Austin Murphy.

[jubilee]

also- have you gone to fulltimefather.com ?

[Kate888]

>>And I know many other children that are thriving under the
>"part-time" or "full-time" care of their daddy.
>
>The thing that infuriates me even more is that this woman's
>children are being raised with these attitudes.

Hear! Hear!!

This is truely unbelievable!!x( I'm glad you got out of there, Flagger. This is the kind of person you want to stay away from anyway! You're always welcome here and quite frankly, this board won't be the same without you :) It's their loss!


Kate
Mama to Maya 2-17-02

[kijip]

That is disgusting. I am so sorry that you had to deal with her! What a pain...

It happens in good ol Seattle, a few quotes about my husband being home with our son:

-It is too bad he can't get a job so you could be the one to stay home

-So, when did he become unemployed?

-Oh, I can see whos wearing the pants at your house

One, he was on leave, not unemployed. Two, we work somewhat opposite schedules for his medical insurance. Three, he is a better SAHP than me. Hands down he is happier at home and I am happier at work and school. Once I get a job with better insurance (I currently make decent $ but the insurance is not good and is only for me) he will be home full time. Also I work at a organization that puts together groups for new parents and this is what I hear from some moms when there are dads in their group and they don't expect it (despite the fact that I tell everyone this OVER and OVER again):

-There are men in the group. Why do they need a parent group?

- I want a group that is just for moms.

-Can the man in the group be moved or else I will drop.

My organization's mission is to support parents, not only moms. There are many less formal groups that are just for moms in the area so if they don't want mixed company they can go elsewhere. I don't think kicking dads out is reasonable. They are parents!!!

[Melanie]

"And as far as I am concerned the mom should be the one home anyways"

!@&?!@#%!!!!! What the HECK planet did you move to?

My condolences...

[MartiesMom2B]

Chuck:

This is a blessing in disguise. You certainly don't need your precious Cocoa to be influenced by people with this mentality. DH would gladly trade places with you if I made more money than him, and I KNOW that he is not the only man who thinks that way.

Just out of curiosity. Did this person ever respond back?

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

[lynettefrancois]

People can be so disappointing sometimes! I've never personally met anyone in Texas with that view, so try not to hold it against the city or state! :) I'm thrilled that you're on this board. Diversity is wonderful. My DH is an on-call pilot and home a lot (and I mean a LOT- we're very lucky), and I pray we don't have to go through anything like that, ever! What idiots. I feel sorry for people who are so unenlightened. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say I'm glad you and Mrs. Flagger are with us! :)

[ShayleighCarsensMom]

Can I just say that I am completely shocked!!!
Would you mind if I emailed them to voice my opinion???

I really hope she doesnt teach all that discrimination to her children.
WOW!!!
Maybe we should all join and just rain on her own little perfect world...

[flagger]

I have been away on a mini-vacation with Ms. Flagger and Cocoa, but now Ms. Flagger is in a meeting so Cocoa and I are using the business center at the hotel because we are bored. Cocoa is fussy so I will be brief as I am sure the other business people in here are just THRILLED I brought in an infant.

The admin of that board elected to ban Ms. Flagger for what she posted and sent a rather lengthy semi-retraction of her statements. I don't have access to that email or I would have posted it. It is very interesting she is now BEGGING for donations to keep the board runnnig. Like I said before, I don't care if she wants a board just for women, I just cannot stand her attitude nor the way in which I was removed. Frankly as a parent, there is just about no women's issue I haven't seen nor heard about. When she made the announcement on the board that she was going to mom's only one participant chimed in about the possibility of someone using that board as a "dating service" married or not. For anyone who knows me and or has met me, I am totally madly in love with Ms. Flagger. As if any woman on that board or anywhere is going to be a temptation for me to stray. If (and a very big NO WAY if) I was going to stray, it would be with someone very hot not someone with a kid and not someone who was not working. Like what on earth would I or anyone do? Leave my spouse to be with someone else who is NOT working outside the home so we both could not be working outside the home? Uh, reality check on aisle 12 please!!!

There are a few other SAHP's boards I belong to so I am not for want of a group in which to get involved. With one, there are two other SAHD's. We have regular playdates at someone's house (which rotates between the participants) or at a public playarea like Mc'ds or a park. I have always felt with the way we move around that we want more friends and not less. There is a SAHD group through Slowlane here in Dallas, but typically they will send out emails on the day of a playdate about TWO HOURS in advance. Usually by then, Cocoa's social calender for the day has already been booked. They really are no comparison to the SAHM's groups I have found here in Dallas.

As mentioned in this thread, I know there is an uneasiness with some people about their child or themselves going to a house with a male present. However, this is the lifestyle we lead. Ms. Flagger has come to a few public playdates. The first one we held at our house, she stayed at home just because of that uneasiness. She also likes to cook and entertain and made a really nice spread of food for the 26 or so people (adults and kids including us). Several of the women were overheard telling the new person in the group, "this is so not the norm.". However, because of her work, she just cannot be home for all playdates. (working out of the house means very little work gets done) As Cocoa gets older and makes friends, there will come a time when her friends come to our house to play. Hopefully the parents will be understanding that the parent that is home with Cocoa is her Daddy.

Thanks for listening to me rant and rave.

[bluej]

Alex's best friend's dad is a SAHD. I have no problems with her going over there when the mom isn't home. Why should I? I know him, I like him, I trust him, he has the same rules at his home that I have in mine, etc. Some people in the neighborhood have questioned this and my only response is 'do you KNOW him?' No, they don't. Well guess what, I don't let my kids go to homes where I don't know the parents, but I do KNOW this man so why should I have doubts about letting my daughter be there? I'm a very careful parent. I take great cautions with my children, so I don't appreciate these people questioning my judgement on this, especially when they don't know him (or me for that matter). I think what it comes down to (in my neighborhood anyway) is that they just don't think much of SAHP's period. In my immediate area, there are three SAHP's, several blocks over there are two more. That's pretty representative of the entire town. So a SAHD is even more of a foreign concept for them. Oh well, their loss as this man has great kids who make for fabulous friends.

[amp]

That really is appalling! And for the stupidest, most back-asswards reasons! Come on lady...get into the right decade already! Sheesh!

[starrynight]

That is horrible. It's one thing to have an opinion but a whole nother thing to impress that opinion over an entire group of others just because you can. And to be snotty about 'well it's my board' about it is even worse. Especially the way it was done, like you said you were there, had an account and then poof now you don't.

And as far as her saying she is "very accepting of all people", I don't really think she is if she is going to exclude sahds and then therefore in a way not accepting of their wives choices to work.

[deborah_r]

>If (and a very big NO WAY if) I
>was going to stray, it would be with someone very hot not
>someone with a kid and not someone who was not working.


OK, is anyone going to ask why being hot and having a kid have to be mutually exclusive??? :P

[mamahill]

Hmm, I wonder if she'd have a problem with a lesbian mother? Might she be accused of using it as a dating service?

I'm sorry you ran into this, Flagger, but glad that at least you no longer have to associate with such people. Unbelieveable.

[ShayleighCarsensMom]

Funny you said that Sarah, as I was thinking the same thing...
Does she have height/weight requirements too???
Its sad to think that her kids are influenced by this.
I have always tried to expose my children to as much diversity as possible (good thing we live in CA, there's plenty here!)

[flagger]

>Hmm, I wonder if she'd have a problem with a lesbian mother?
>Might she be accused of using it as a dating service?

I am sure she would. However I do know two lesbian couples and of course I have given them the URL. Evil Grin.

[flagger]

>>If (and a very big NO WAY if) I
>>was going to stray, it would be with someone very hot not
>>someone with a kid and not someone who was not working.
>
>
>OK, is anyone going to ask why being hot and having a kid
>have to be mutually exclusive??? :P

Well frankly I just don't look at other women like that anymore. I find lots of women attractive, but I consider Ms. Flagger extremely HOT. And again, there are lots of other titillating places on the net for both men and women. I do not think someone comes to a parents board looking to be titillated.

[BethinMass]

I just read this post and just wanted to say that I agree with everyone here!

My husband is a stay at home dad and has had his fair share of the same. Sadly a good amount from our own family :/

But, While I miss my kids and do sometimes wish I was at home, I have to be realistic. My husband has endless patience, he loves his children, and because of staying at home, he truely appreciates myself and our children.

Although I admit, he hasn't attempted to join a play group considering the responses he gets when someone finds out he's a stay at home dad :(

[votre_ami03]

WOW is about all I can say too Flagger! I cannot believe this woman! *shaking head & hanging it in shame*


Christy, mommy to Nolan 7/22/03

[Melanie]

She's an embarrassment to mothers, isn't she?

[votre_ami03]

Yes, mothers & women in general. That is sad.


Christy, mommy to Nolan 7/22/03

[kransden]

DD has been sick, and I am just catching up. This is nuts! Sorry this still goes on.


Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[aliceinwonderland]

You are kidding right??? I CANNOT believe this...I don't even know what to say.

[cchavez]

Flagger, I am so sorry this happened to you! This women is crazy! God, and she makes us Dallasites look sooo bad! I stronly believe in having a parent at home but I know my DH could not do it and my Dad could not have done it BUT not even my Mother could have done it! You have been a wonderful SAHP to Cocoa and you should not be penalized for the choices you and your wife have made. We are all trying to do what we feel is best for our children/family.