RANT: Who Watches Daycare Kids????

[Dscvrlifewith3]

I am so ticked off. I took my kids to an in door play center today. We arrived when it opened to see three vans from daycares. If I had not promised my children we were going to this particular place I would have turned right out. I used to work at a Discovery Zone in college, so I am well aware of how "daycare kids" act in these places. Unruley, unsupervised, and act like they have no manners whatsoever.
So we go in.
My kids go running into the play zone. I joined my little one, because he has hypotonia and sometimes doesn't balance as well as other kids his age. I was right behind him when some bigger children, boys, jumped on my baby! I grabbed one kid by the arm and pulled him off to have another kid SHOVE my baby back down as he went to stand. There was another small child in their who was crying because she was scared so as I was trying to get out I grabbed her out of there right before a bunch of these daycare kids mowed her down. (her mother was very pregnant, and I doubt she could have manuevered the tunnels) On my way out I saw a daycare worker and commented she needed to watch the kids better and told her what they were doing, she just kind of shrugged it off.
I took Jack to the baby area after that because he is still small enough to play on it, and let my older children to continue to play. I witnessed these "daycare kids" hit, punch, pull hair, tackle not only other daycare kids but other patrons children. These kids were rude and had horrible nastee language. I also watched several times the "daycare workers" yank these kids by their arms, scream in their faces, call children stupid, and one said she was "going to tear his a$$ up." Did I mention that one of the daycares there was church affiliated?
I'm in no way trying to down working parents, but I often wonder if they are oblivious to how their children act in public (or in daycare) when they are not watching them. I'm sure that by the time they get home the little rug rats are exhausted and ready to park it front of the TV or Video Games quietly and possible the parents are just clueless. Since I worked in child care at one time and worked in one of these facilities, I know this is just not some isolated incidence -- I've seen this with high-end child care facilities to those chain facilities. The kids all act like heathens, and if they don't they get the mess beat out of them by the rest of the lot.
After forty minutes my older children asked to leave. Dylan had been sucker punched and my daughter got kicked in the neck (which on her fair skin is still visible as I write this. On the way home my daughter said "Mommy where did those kids come from, they were bad children."
I just wonder what kind of people are hired to work in daycares? Why don't they watch the children properly? and Are the parents of these kids clueless about their children's behavior? I would be horrified if my children acted this way.

Mad,
Kim
I sleep little!

[trumansmom]

While I do understand your frustration and anger at the way your children were treated, I felt compelled to express my frustration at your depiction of "daycare kids". By lumping all children whose parents work into one big category, you are doing a great injustice to them. Not ALL children who attend daycare behave like this. Not ALL daycare providers are bad. Many are kind loving people who work with children because they enjoy it. They are grossly undercompensated and underappreciated.

A great deal of us struggle with finding adequate care for our children. It's a difficult situation and there is frequently lots of guilt involved. Please be sensitive to the fact that many, many parents HAVE to work outside the home whether or not it's what they would choose in a perfect world.

I'm so sorry you and your children had an unpleasant experience.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and Eleanor 4/14/04

[pritchettzoo]

Can you call the administrator of the daycares and complain? I've seen stuff like that happen in the church nursery--some kids just go bananas away from their parents (or in front of their parents sometimes). I guess they don't learn that there are consequences for their behavior. Children from well-supervised daycares go unnoticed because they're not drawing attention to themselves. And the good daycares probably know better than to take kids to a place like that--the ratio of adult to child necessary to maintain control would make it cost-prohibitive.

I hope your kids recover soon!

Anna

[ladybugsea]

I agree entirely with the previous poster.

[Dscvrlifewith3]

Yes, I am writing letters to the two daycares that were there today. This is just a bad reflection on their facilities. Ugh.

I know not all daycare children act like this. I have neices and nephews who went or are in daycare. One went to a Montessori and two went to a small facility. (that went out of business because the standards were high and hey couldn't afford to maintain them) I know its difficult to find good child care, however I remain curious if parents are truly aware of how their children act away from them in the facilities or in public on field trips.

[slknight]

I completely agree.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience and realize this is a bitching forum. But I am very much offended at your attitude toward those who put their children in daycare.

[trumansmom]

>I know its difficult to find good
>child care, however I remain curious if parents are truly
>aware of how their children act away from them in the
>facilities or in public on field trips.

I'm going to let this drop, but I have to say how hurt and offended I've been by these posts. I tried to express myself as gently as possible in a previous post, but this statement truly offended me as well.

Although I can't speak for ALL parents who have children in daycare, I would have to say that yes, I do know how my son acts when he is away from me. I make it a point to know - as most good parents do. I speak to his teachers daily. I talk to the director of his center at least weekly. My DH and I help chaperone field trips. Our babysitter is a young woman who works at his daycare and I quiz her mercilessly about DS. Whenever situations do arise, daycare calls me. We discuss what could be causing the behavior. We discuss discipline so we are being consistent. Although I'm not with him every day, I make every effort to be as involved as possible with his life during his time away. And I don't think I'm the only parent who does this.

I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but I can't begin to tell you how hurtful I found your statements to be. I do my best to be a good mother under our circumstances. Your statements implied that parents of "daycare kids" were fine with letting their children run wild as soon as they are out of sight. That's just not the case.

I do understand that your first responsibility is to your children. I'm sure I would have been just as outraged as you were if my children had been treated as yours had on their outing. But please, don't insult my child and the decisions that my family has made because you encountered some rough children.

I'm done and I'm going to let it drop now.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and Eleanor 4/14/04

[Bethann31]

I'm sorry, but I really take offense at this. I have had children in a daycare situation, and I have also been a SAHM. Right now I work full-time because I love my field, and I pay 2 nannies very well to take care of my child.

I have gone to many a playgroup where the children were heathens, right in front of their parents. Just because moms are SAHMs or WAHMs does NOT give them carte blanche to act as if children who attend child care facilities are less cared about or less well behaved than their own. Children are children, some are better behaved than others. Some will use mom's sympathy to complain about others. I am not suggesting that you did this, but in your post, it appears that your attitude right from the start was negative. I know this negative attitude would have definitely affected all of my older children and they would have responded to it appropriately. In this case, complaining about the other kids and trying to elicit sympathy from me. How do I know this? It has happened. I really have to watch to make sure my feelings don't influence my own children's behavior.

I am very sorry this happened to you. It was inappropriate for any employee to talk to a child this way and the owners of the facility should definitely be told. I just think that it is equally inappropriate for you to put a label of "daycare kids" on a whole group of people and indicate that parents that choose this route are somehow deficient in their parenting. Perhaps that is not what you meant, but that is definitely how it came across to me.

Off my soapbox now.


Beth

Josh 3/90
Mollie 4/92
Jeffrey 12/94
and Katherine 6/03

[emilyf]

That's a shame, I'm sorry your outing was marred this way. I had the exact opposite experience today. I went to a nature program at one of our local parks. Along with a few sahms and individual babysitters with kids there were two small daycares there with 6-7 children each and 2 adults. The kids were all polite, respectful and attentive. The care providers were watchful and quick to assist the teacher. This was a free program in an urban area, and there was a range of socioeconomic backgrounds and it went really well. Just wanted to show the opposite side of the story!
Emily \r\nmom of Charlie born 11/02

[jupster75]

I am hurt the comments above. I have to work, I don't have a choice. It is not a matter of me working for luxuries, I work to pay bills and help provide for my family.

On the other side of this: DH & I were eating lunch today. There was a mom there with her three children. She ate while the two younger children (one maybe 6, the other less than 18 months) ran around the restaurant and went to the front doors out of her site. There are waitors carrying HOT food all around. They almost ran into a waitor carrying a sizzling fajita plate. She never got up or moved to even see where they were running to. Anyone could have grabbed these children from right by the front doors and the mother could not have done anything.


Jennifer, mom to Audrey 11/3/03
http://lilypie.com/baby1/041103/2/16/2/-5/.png

[Dscvrlifewith3]

I think too many people are taking my post way too personally.

I never said working parents were deficient in their parenting.

Kim
I sleep little!

[Dscvrlifewith3]

Maybe it was the number of children there. It wasn't a small grouping, but more like 30 or 40 children.

[Dscvrlifewith3]

I think you misunderstood, my attitude is more with the people watching the children, than the working parents. I really wasn't aware that in the bitching forum I would have to qualify all my statements. :::sigh::: Sorry that I posted.

(who will not start a bitching post again)

Kim
I sleep little.

[starrynight]

I am more appauled at how the daycare workers acted than the kids, it's a good chance they act that way because of the way they are treated during the majority of their waking hours. My stepson was in daycare for awhile as a child and to be honest he is very reserved in front of his mom but when he has been at our house for visits and when he has stayed overnight at my bil's house he has been just awful. He doesn't share at all or anything, my kids get upset because of the way they are treated by him.

I won't send my kids to daycare because I am afraid of them being treated that way by staff (amoung other reasons but that one especially!)

[sntm]

Part of that may just have been having 30-40 children together. I'm sure everyone has been to birthday parties where even 10 kids together develop this crazy mob mentality.

Sad if it is bad daycare management, both for the kids and the parents (who may not even realize how their kids are being cared for). Thanking my lucky stars I have a fabulous daycare facility.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[lisams]

I understand. I understand because I worked at a daycare. You see, they sign children up for these field trips, and in order to make more money by raising the enrollment, they allow far too many children to go than should. Personally I think when taking children out of the daycare into the public, the teacher to child ratio should be SMALLER, just because you run the risk of more things happening. The daycare that I worked at when I was in college did this, and it was soooo hard to keep track of 10 five year olds running around. They act differently, and they know there isn't an adult to every couple of children. And, sometimes the teachers view the field trips as a time to sit back and relax while the kids run around like crazy (heck I see moms doing this too!)

Sadly, some (obviously not all) daycare centers are staffed by people who really shouldn't be there - like I already said, I used to work in a daycare and it saddened me the way these children were handled and talked to. There are centers that I interned at that were FABULOUS, so I know that not all daycare centers are like the ones you encountered.

I don't think it has to do with the children at all, it has everything to do with daycare center(s) that are not considering their responsibility to supervise children when they are taking them out to places like this. Children will get away with what they are allowed to get away with. I'm guessing that if you saw the exact same group of children with their parents present, it would have been a totally different outcome.

I'm sorry your little one got trampled. Good for you for writing a letter to the centers. If no one says anything, nothing will change. The parents probably don't even realize there is a problem (unless they were there volunteering or observing).

I would be pissed too. What you witnessed is not okay, not okay for your child and not okay for the children who are in this daycare's supervision.

Lisa

[TaChapm]

ITA! As a former daycare worker I know how well supervised most of the children are. It is a real problem. Too many children for the workers to deal with. The ratios are just terrible! I worked at one of the best daycares in our area and was horrified at some of the workers that they had in there. Most of them were terrible to the children but said what the parents wanted to hear to make them think that things were great. It makes me sick to think about it! As a result I vowed never to put DS in daycare after seeing what goes on behind the scenes when no one is looking. I don't think the problem is with the parents at all. THe fact of the matter is when you have a large group of children who are not being supervised well there are always going to be problems. Even the best children will be inclined to join in when the group is acting crazy.
I am so sorry this happened to you and your children. We should all be able to go out and let our kids have a fun day without things being ruined by a mob of unsupervised kids. Shame on those daycares!
Hope your day gets better!
Tara
Mommy to Jackson 11-10-02

[ddmarsh]

"I often wonder if they are oblivious to how their children act in public (or in daycare) when they are not watching them. I'm sure that by the time they get home the little rug rats are exhausted and ready to park it front of the TV or Video Games quietly and possible the parents are just clueless."

I'm not sure how you might think the above statement might be taken other than a critique of parents who place their children in daycare.

I happen to stay at home but am very embarassed that anyone would make statements like this that are likely to be hurtful to the wonderful moms on these boards who do use daycare.

[Rachels]

Uh, I don't think the problem is with bitching, I think it's with overgeneralizing daycare providers and the children in their care. There are a lot of moms here with kids in childcare, and the degree to which you assume and behave as though all their children are in poor care and destined to be unruly is over the top. You don't have to qualify all your statements. It's possible to rant about the particular experience you had with the kids in question without offending a good percentage of the mothers who post here.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/2/character39.gif

"We have a secret in our culture...it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong!!" - Laura Stavoe Harm

[parkersmama]

Well, it really sucks that your trip to have fun was ruined by the children from the daycare being too boisterous and rude. They certainly should have had more responsible adults there with them supervising their behavior.

But, I do think that it's unfair to generalize that all daycare children will behave this way. I know a lot of daycare children who are well-behaved...some better than those who are at home with their parents. Positive things that many children learn at daycare are napping quietly on their own, sharing toys with other children, feeding themselves at an earlier age, and often even potty training!

I, OTOH, had a very positive experience this summer with a large group of daycare children. I have been the director of our large Vacation Bible School (300 kids) for the past several years. We have many children attend who do not belong to our church but this year for the first time we had a group from a local daycare that attended. There were about 33 daycare children ranging from going in Kindergarten up to entering 4th grade. The daycare only sent 2 adults each day to be there (along with volunteer adults from the church who were working at VBS). My experience was that the daycare children were respectful, participatory, and generally very well-behaved. And the only discipline problem that we did have was handled quickly and efficiently by the daycare staff. As a matter of fact, the daycare children were often better behaved than the "raised-at-home" kids from our church!

[slknight]

Rachel, thank you. I hadn't responded because I was trying to figure out how to phrase what I wanted to say. You summed it up perfectly for me. :)

[memedee]

Making prejudicial comments about children who are in daycare is really not okay in any forum.Labelling is most definitely prejudicial.Being upset about a particular person running a particular daycare is your perogative however, it is just one person and not all day care workers.
I do not have a child in day care yet, I was offended.

[stella]

That's precisely the statement that bothered me. I am working outside the home after three years of staying home. My children are not in a daycare per se, but are in a 1/2 day pre-school 4 mornings a week and cared for by a nanny in our home after school and all day on Fridays. But I often consider whether a daycare doesn't make more sense. For now, though, we're all happy.

But I don't consider my kiddos "rug rats" and park them in front of the TV or video games for my convenience.

Look, I was always quiet and studious and cared for by a SAHM and one night I was asked to leave the public library for being too rowdy with a group of friends. My mother was furious when I called her to come pick me up. But the point is that lots of children act differently with their parents present than without. I think your post conveys anger at the workers APPROPRIATELY. And irritation with parents for not knowing how their kids act inappropriately.

I would be furious if my children were stampeded by a rowdy group of kids. But making assumptions about how little daycare parents care is really out of line.

[Dscvrlifewith3]

I want to repeat that I do not think the children's behavior or lack of supervision had anything to do with the parents. NONE. I think has to do with the daycares, their workers, and when you have a lot of kids running around without supervision, they act amuck. Like the domino effect. I was just meaning that some parents may be shocked, disappointed to see these behaviors going on, especially their own children. I didn't say it was their fault, just that it could be happening without their knowledge.

I wish some of you would not have taken it as a dig to working parents, because my bitch post was not about parents who work. I did over generalize daycare children, but in my personal experience having worked in childcare and in one of these play centers this is what I say many times with the daycare groups. For the record, I can say plenty about the stay at home moms who would sip their drinks and gossip and let their children, openly with them watching their kids act like they had just been hyped up on red dye and sugar. However I do not think all SAHM are that way at all.

I better shut up now. LOL

Kim

[Dscvrlifewith3]

I'm really sorry at all the people I offended. I was really hot when writing my bitching post and I shouldn't have made a generalized statement about daycare children. I really do not believe that all kids in daycare act that way ( I know they do not) nor do I think that all working parents are neglectful and sorry that some thought that is what I was saying. (I am a working parent)

Kim

[workaholic]

I worked at a Daycare in college. It was an experience that changed my thinking on daycares. There were no reference checks and basically no application. It was a very reputible daycare in the area I lived in at the time. The care givers came and went and the babies seemed to be unloved at times. The toddlers I had were so wild that at times I felt I really should have had more help. I swore off daycares entirely after that experience. I didn't matter that the daycare was clean, expensive, and had a huge facility. It was the care that the children received that was lacking. Most do their best but it seemed to be okay that the owners friend made herself welcome in the nursery and mistreated a baby because it was crying and in her opinion because it was "black". I was so disgusted. I put my notice in and reported the incident to the proper state supervisors but I don't think there was anything they could do. When parents asked me why I was leaving I wasn't ashamed to tell them. I understand that caregivers were constantly coming and going and that the little ones needed some stability. I'm not sure why this wasn't a clue to most parents. In defense of truly good daycares, I'm sure there are some. I'm sooo sorry that your children where hurt but it is one caregiver to a large handful of children. This is what are society seems to be coming to. It is evident in their behavior in school as well. I love children with every bit of my being and I pray that our society will recognize their needs. I gave up sooo much to stay at home with my baby and I wouldn't take it for anything. I just hope that everyone here that uses a daycare has found the best one they could find and that their children are VERY well taken care of. If there's ever any hint of neglect, question it immediatley.

Best of luck with future visits to the play center...
Aimee Larsen
Momma to Cooper
Crossing fingers for another...
Owner: Ella-Bags

[Dscvrlifewith3]

Thanks for sharing, I had a very similar experience when working in a daycare as well. Working at Discovery Zone and doing some of their marketing, I had to visit local daycares to promote groups, etc. It really changed my perception about childcare in general. I know many moms have to work and not everyone can stay at home or work at home like we have done.
One of the best daycares I visited when I made calls, was a facility that wasn't the fanciest and was fairly inexpensive. It was in a bad part of town but the director/owner was a wonderful person. The kids were happy, the place was clean, and the kids never seemed to be out of control when I was there. The babies always looked happy. Many people didn't want to go there though because of the location and because they took daycare subsidies for mothers trying to get off welfare.

Next time we plan to visit I think I will call ahead and see if they have any large groups coming.

Kim

[Jeanmick]

Hi Kim,

When I read your post, for some reason, I knew right away that you did not mean to make generalizations about daycare kids or saw it as a dig to working parents, yada, yada, yada...I took it for what it was worth...just a BITCH (sorry if I've offended anyone in using this word ;) ) about your experience with the children in these two specific daycare settings.

Sorry that you had to defend yourself today...bad enough that you and your kids had such an awful time and then having to deal with this too. Yuck. :(

Edited to rephrase a sentence.

[jubilee]

I want to say I am NOT offended by Kim's comments. I used to be a working mom and my oldest son was in daycare from age 6-10. He was in a good (and expensive) daycare. On 2 occassions I had to pick him up from a fieldtrip location and found he and other children were behaving in ways that are unacceptable to me- bullying, pushing, yelling. (And my son is usually a fantastic kid.) So, I totally know what you are talking about, Kim.

I think that on fieldtrips something "magical" happens to bring out the worst in some children. They know they are in an environment where they aren't monitored as closely as in the daycare. And maybe it's not a staffing ratio issue, but simply the kids are too spread out to see each one of them at every moment. Kids are kids, they push the boundaries all the time- even with daycare workers. This does not reflect on the parents or kids- but how the daycare handles this does reflect on them. Of course, this is my opinion and is not ment to hurt anyone AT ALL!

[Melanie]

We had a similiar experience with "camp kids," last week at the ice skating rink. It was awful, at first we thought no one was in charge, then we realized there were several young men in charge, and they were the ones instigating the misbehaving!

If I can remember the name of the camp (which I swore I would and of course haven't) they are definitely getting a letter!

[AngelaS]

I worked at several different daycares in college also and because I did, I too vowed I would do my best to never put my child in such a place. The 'best' center in town had employees who let the children run amok and sat and chatted the day away. Sure they had a colorful room filled with the children's 'artwork' and a calendar full of activities, but there was no love. And some children were much less loved than they deserved to be. It was quite heartbreaking.

And Kim, your comments didn't offend me. The daycare groups that take field trips in this town are just about as bad.

[MartiesMom2B]

If this particular situation happened to me, I'd be furious too. I have to admit that when we go to the park and see a camp or daycare bus come up we leave or when I go to the local mall and see a group of kids come in the play area we leave too. Most of the time the day care kids are behaving themselves but I think because they know each other they rough house a bit more. Plus I don't really want Martie to get lost in a crowd of kids. I've seen situations where day care providers were in the mix with kids and I've seen situations where the providers sit back and watch what's going on while talking to their co-workers.

Based on what I've heard from those who used to work at day care facilities, it just goes on to prove that if you chose outside care for your children you need to pick the best. Martie is starting preschool this Fall and if I found out that they were taking her to the mall to run around like a wild child, I wouldn't be too happy to know that that's I'm paying them for.

Sonia http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/1/character03.gif
Proud Mommy to Martie

[llcoddington]

I also worked at a daycare in college. This one was the most expensive, prestigious in town. No background checks, no reference checks, nothing. DH volunteered at our church to work with junior highers and had to go through an extensive application process similar to working for the government! Shouldn't daycare workers have to go through something similar???

I do have to say that I think the kids I worked with were very well-behaved. We never went on a field trip, but I think they would have been fine.

Lana
mommy to Lauren 12/5/03

[lizajane]

ditto what sonia said. i don't think the OP meant to say that all daycare facitilites are horrible or that all daycare children are horrible. when you witness such a scene, it is hard to describe the group in any other way- other than "the daycare kids." this kind of story is the reason i would rather move in with my parents than go back to work and put my kid in daycare. NOT BECAUSE there are NO good daycares that provide a loving, nurturing, safe environment. NOT BECAUSE children who go to daycare don't get what they need! but because i would just worry all the time that i made a mistake in my facility choice. and mostly, because the work i want to do is caring for my child all day every day.

i think many moms and dads who work by choice have made the RIGHT choice for their family. and i think many moms and dads have to work in order to best care for their families. i just feel sad for those who cannot afford the super high quality daycare that we would all like to know our kids or our friends kids are in. some kids have to go to the facilities that are overcrowded and understaffed because that is all the family can afford. that is why we all need to be vigilant in reporting childcare violations.

[tinkerbell1217]

I totally understood your post meaning the people who were supposed to be watching those kids. I have many times witnessed very similar behavior when daycare kids were at movies or other public places and so were my children. I am not generalizing all daycares, but ALOT of them do not have well trained staff or caring staff to keep a good eye on the kids while they are playing at an indoor play area or the movies, etc.. I totally understand! My son has physical disablities also and I have to watch him closely and always have. I have endured the same sort of thing you did. I have worked in day care and the particular day care center I worked in was very good about that kind of thing. Some aren't, I guess and you got bombarded with one like that!

[tinkerbell1217]

The turnaround with childcare facilities also helps to make the kids a wild bunch too. They get used to one care giver and then she is gone in a few months or sometimes weeks and they have to get along with somebody else. Stability might help a little. It's gotta be tough for little kids to keep seeing new faces and deal with the ways new people treat them. When I worked in day care we had a great staff that had worked there for over 2 years all together. The director had been there for 4 years and everyone was pleasant. However, another day care I worked at was terrible! HUGE turnover, a not so caring director/owner, AND parents who were uninterested in anything we had to tell them, so yes, SOMETIMES the parents contribute to the problem.

Don't keep apologizing, Kim. You don't need to apologize for your feelings! I didn't take your post to mean anything other than you were outraged and hurt because your children were hurt by unruly children in a public place where day care children were "letting off steam" with little or no supervision. The kids are probably good kids otherwise! And, yes, LOTS of kids behave completely differently when away from their parents! Mine are usually better for other people than for me!

[octmom]

I must admit that I am not taking the time to read the whole string of responses because I am one of those horrible mothers who works outside the home and sends my DS to daycare and I do not have time to read all of this at work. I am sure that many opinions have been expressed already, some more strongly than others.

I just want to let you know that I looked long and hard for a good daycare center to enroll my son in, and I have been VERY satisfied with my decision so far. Granted he is not even 9 months old yet, but when exploring options, DH and I were very careful to look at the entire program for each place we considered, not just the infant room. There are marked differences between different daycare centers as there are between nannies and in-home daycare providers.

I am genuinely sorry that you had a rotten experience at the play center and that your kids did not enjoy themselves. It really sounds like it was terrible. But, large groups of children (and maybe that was the problem) will often be overly rambunctious, particularly in that type of setting. It seems to me as if there was not adequate supervision in this case. I know that when our daycare center arranges field trips, parents go along to help chaperone and get the ratio lower than it is in the classroom. I think that is an important consideration. It sounds as if you were stuck with a group that did not plan well and did not hire caring staff. My sympathies.

However, even though this is a bitching post, I resent your generalizations about "daycare kids" (also referred to as rugrats, and it did not seem as if you were doing this in a joking, affectionate way) and their "clueless" parents. As a woman promoting a business in the signature line of many of your posts, you may wish to be a bit more careful about offending many potential customers by lumping them together as oblivious/ clueless/ bad parents who dump their children in front of the TV or video games when they are at home. You say that you are not trying to "down working parents", but if you re-read your post, it seems clear that you are doing so quite blatantly.

BTW, I should tell you that the family I know with the worst-beahved children is a family with a stay-at-home mom. The children are often violent with each other and with other children and adults, loud, and rude. Their idea of toys for their three sons are most often gender-stereotypical (superheroes, weapons, and sports) and they use the television and video games as babysitters more than anyone I have every seen. One of their DSs would rather sit with his X-box on a beautiful day than play outside with other children. I also know many parents who work outside the home who restrict their children's television watching a great deal, in part because they want to spend the limited time they have together in the evenings and on weekends doing other things-- reading, playing together, talking, etc.

Just my two cents.

Jerilyn, not looking for a new diaper bag anytime soon

octmom
DS, October 2003

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[lisams]

I agree, there's no need for you to apologize. You were bitching for a good reason, your child got trampled and the adults that should have been watching these children obviously weren't.

Lisa

[Dscvrlifewith3]

It really is a shame you didn't read the entire thread with my subsequent posts, clarifying some of my statements and making, which was needed qualifiers to my "rant". I also did not state some of the things you mentioned in your post, like calling working parents bad parents.

I also did not intend for my post to start any type of who is better, working or stay at home parents. I am sure everyone here has a story to share about the other, making their position seem better or more right. (which has happened in several posts thus far)

Now ,it time for me to go, get the rugrats a snack and then set them up to play with gender stereotypical toys so I can work. :)

Kim, who often refers to children as rugrats with affection

[lisams]

LOL, I call DD a rugrat sometimes too! She thinks it's cute ;-) I say "Come here you little rugrat, I'm gonna get you and tickle you!" She absolutely loves it!

Lisa

[Dscvrlifewith3]

I actually call my children heathens. In the south, children who act naughty and unruley are called heathens. It has been a long standing joke in our family to call the kids that, and it is done with affection. However we have offended many over it being said through the years. It is just a term of endearment though, not to be calling them names.

[AngelaS]

ROTFL!!! Mine are heathens at times and know that when Mommy calls them that, it's time to CALM down.

Of course, I'm not above saying, "The beatings shall commence" either, but that's a whole 'nother thread! :D

[tinkerbell1217]

I have used the term "Rugrats" MANY times through the years!!! I don't take offense to it at all!

[lfp2n]

I'm not sure I get the joke, there are plenty of offensive phrases that some people use endearingly, but I can assure you that this one, in this context, along with much of the originial post and the subsequent 'why I won't ever send my kid to daycare' stuff were pretty offensive and/or insensitive to our many daycare mums, me included.

I wasn't going to respond as others have said it more eloquently, but I continued to be astounded by the post and responses. As an aside I have to laugh about toddlers being parked in front of the TV, in a recent TV watching thread it seemed my DD was the only toddler who had watched no TV and wouldn't til she was 2, as per recommended guidelines, so maybe we should at least get that generalization straight.

Lucy

[lisams]

There were also some references by more than one poster about the worste behaved children they have seen being children of SAHMs. So I guess I could go off and say I'm offeneded, but I know that these people weren't lumping all of us SAHMs as having horribly behaved children, they were just talking about their experiences, which is what this forum is for.

People, please read the apologies by the OP. It's one thing to be offended, it's another to continue after someone has apologized and explained their words.

Congrats on the no tv, I'm glad that works for you.

Lisa

[tinkerbell1217]

Well said! How do you keep a kid from watching any TV??? Just curious! I never could!

[lfp2n]

We never have it on! Now I've seen every Law and Order made there isn't much to watch, I guess The Apprentice is coming back....

[Melanie]

Leave it off when they are awake.

[octmom]

Ugh. I know I should NEVER post when something upsets me, as the original post did. It's just so not worth the ensuing mess.

I agree that terms like rugrats and heathens can be used with affection and are often done so by many people, me included. It's just that the context in the original post made it clear that the usage was not intended in an affectionate manner. (BTW, if central Virginia is considered the South, I am in the South too. But I grew up in NY and this was done there too, so I don't think it is a regional thing, just a parent thing.)

My example of a SAHM with poorly-behaved kids was just that, one example, not a judgement on all SAHMs. I think SAHMs are wonderful people and I have several friends who stay at home with children and have my utmost respect. There are many days that I am jealuous of the flexibility (in some cases) that their lifestyle affords, though I know that working outside the home is the right choice for me and for my family.

I also don't think television is evil. I watch plenty of it, including some mindless drivel like two and half episodes of Blowout (hair salon docudrama) on Bravo while DS napped in my lap on Sunday morning. I was just trying to clarify that all parents who work outside the home do not use the television as a babysitter when they are home in the evenings and on weekends.

Anytime we get into generalization about ANY parenting choices, I expect MANY people to be offended. That's why I try to steer clear of them. This may have been stated somewhere else already, but I think the bitching post should be a place to bitch about specific situations (like the one you experienced at the play center), and not to make harsh judgements about parenting choices other people make, unless they compromise the safety and well-being of a child. If your subsequent posts were clarifications explaining that you were not passing judgement on all working parents, I am glad.

BTW, I saw a post in another forum with photos of a WW diaper bag and it is GORGEOUS! :)

Jerilyn

octmom
DS, October 2003

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[kijip]

I think that play centers like the Discovery Zone, with all the excitement and the huge number of children bring out bad behavior in lots of children. I am sorry that you had such a bad time at the center. It seems like a similar situation could arise anytime the place is busy regardless of the clientele...also mixing hoards of big kids with babies on that climbing equipment seems like a recipe for disaster---like getting crushed at a punk rock concert! Places like that are a great idea but when overcrowded I would stay away.

Also any daycare worker who physically manipulates a child and uses fowl language is guilty of a crime in my state...I would call the state certification board....

[StaceyKim]

>>"daycare kids">>

i have read this thread a few times...i just think that putting labels on people/kids is what is wrong with this post and why it has upset moms especially with kids in daycare. my ds is not in daycare and this upset me. there have been negative posts about people who have nannies and are sahm's and compare them to the "nanny diaries" mom and it p'd me off. so, i hate the idea of people putting labels on other people.

i am sorry about your experience but it definitely has nothing to do with the fact that they are in daycare. i have seen moms/dads/gp let their kids run wild too.

[lisams]

She has apologized in this thread, and addressed your exact concerns:

"I'm really sorry at all the people I offended. I was really hot when writing my bitching post and I shouldn't have made a generalized statement about daycare children. I really do not believe that all kids in daycare act that way ( I know they do not) nor do I think that all working parents are neglectful and sorry that some thought that is what I was saying. (I am a working parent)

Kim"

I just hate to see this thread keep popping up when she has made it clear she was upset and is sorry she hurt or offended anyone.

Peace,
Lisa

[Joshuasmommy]

I know exactly what you mean, so many times this summer I have gone places to find them crowded with daycare kids(or kids that attend daycare if daycare kids is an offensive term) and the workers not paying attention to them. One time we went to a park and there was one lady playing with the kids I was so impressed until she started talking to us and saying how happy she was that she could go with her son on the field trip today, the rest of the adults were sitting on a picnic table talking. And for the record I also get annoyed when I see kids with their parents who are out of control or when they let older kids play in areas meant for younger kids.

I also use terms like rugrats and monsters to describe kids affectionately. I don't think that should be taken as offensive. I hate that people can't bitch without everyone taking offense, I know if I am upset about something I don't watch everything I say, sometimes things just come out differently than I mean them because I am upset.

I personally love the look of your diaper bags and when I am in the market for a new one I will think of you!

[tippy]

Me too Kim. Sorry (and your kids) had such a lousy experience. Curious to know what response (if any) you get from the two places you sent letters off to.

[StaceyKim]

Lisa,
I can see that she "apologized" for her comments. My post was more directed at people that have posted in the past using *labels* in a negative way and I hope that posters are more sensitive in the future to avoid heated threads.

ETA: and by the way Lisa, IMO once words have left your mouth (or put in writing as it is here) it is an indication that it was in your head. it is very hard to take those words back. they are a reflection of what you actually think.
if you want this thread to die out, leave it at that.