Poll- you see a baby not in carseat in moving vehicle, WWYD?

[jubilee]

Today I saw a baby (2-3 months old) riding in the arms of a passenger in the front seat of a convertable (an old VW Rabbit). No carseat in the car at all. My hubby and I disagree on what I should have done- so I throw this on you guys and ask what should a person do?

[Melanie]

I would not hesitate to get their license plate # and phone the authorities with their location.

[Rachels]

I'd call, too. They are literally risking that child's life. Even a minor fender-bender could kill a baby being held in front of an airbag.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/2/character39.gif

"We have a secret in our culture...it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong!!" - Laura Stavoe Harm

[marinkitty]

I actually did this once. We were running errands up north at my parent's cottage and saw a two year old (if that, a small small toddler) in the backseat belted in and a very tiny baby being held by a woman in the front seat. No car seats in evidence anywhere. And the two women had just stopped at a gas station and bought a case of beer. It was a holiday weekend and many people were at the lake partying. I took their license plate and called the police. I was so worried for those kids.

But I have to come clean and admit that I only did this a couple of months after seeing a woman who was in a mommy class with me that I knew in passing jump in the backseat with her six month old sitting on the seat next to her with her arm around him while her mother drove them away. A friend from class and I both stood there watching with our mouths open, then talked about how horrible and dangerous that was, and then did nothing. I never even said anything to her afterwards b/c I know she knows the risks and the law and there are many things that she chooses to do very differently than I do, but I have to say I still feel guilty and cowardly for not at least mentioning it. They are now in our Gymboree class and I think of it every time I see her and her now 16 month old.

Edited to fix typo.

Holly
Mom to Mia (3.17.03)

[TonFirst]

This link - http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=49439 - should take you to a story on a fatal car accident in Atlanta yesterday where an infant was killed after it was thrown from the SUV its mother was driving when the mother pulled the SUV infront of a tractor-trailer. I would guess that the infant was not in a restraint seat - if it was, how could it have been thrown clear of the car?

I would call the police in a heartbeat. I remember that when I was in the fourth grade, I actually lectured a fellow Girl Scout on infant car seat safety after her mother drove up to our meeting holding her two-month-old in her lap. The baby was between the mother and the steering wheel! Even at age nine, I was totally appalled at the stupidity of her mother.

[amp]

Was the car actually on the road? I only ask because almost every other week, after DH gets a haircut, we drive through the parking lot from the hair salon to the pizza place, in the same parking lot to go eat lunch. The only reason we move the car is so the salon's patrons have plenty of places to park. We don't buckle DS for this and I have gotten some funny looks from those who don't know we aren't leaving the lot. I almost feel like I need to tell them what we are doing so they don't freak out!

BUT, in a moving car, on the road, that is unacceptable!

[dowlinal]

Speaking as the wife of a police officer - you really should call the police and let them handle this. You should never confront people because you just don't know how they will react and you could be placing yourself and your child at risk. My husband would never get upset at someone for calling to report something like this and would be glad if he could help protect the child.

[Marisa6826]

Andrea-

Something like 40% of all accidents happen in parking lots.

Please rethink your decision. I'd hate to see a post from you about an accident :(

hugs

-m

[octmom]

I agree. If we are just moving the car from one spot to another in a parking lot, I will often walk DS across a shopping center (on the sidewalk) to the second location while DH moves the car just to avoid the buckling and unbuckling. It is a hassle to buckle and unbuckle for short trips, especially when DS resists it more than half the time, but I wouldn't take the risk. Parking lots are dangerous places.

This really isn't a judgement, just concern.

Jerilyn

octmom
DS, October 2003

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[tinkerbell1217]

I would call the cops if I could get the license plate number.

[MelissaTC]

At first glance, I thought it said 2-3 years old. 2-3 months old???!!!! Are they freakin' crazy???? I would totally call the police and write the license plate number down to report them. CRAZY CRAZY people!

[lisams]

I would get the license plate info and call the police. That way they can at least send a warning to their listed address even if they don't "catch" them.

This is so sad. Why, why, why do people do this?

Lisa

[jubilee]

Here's the rest of the story:
I was at home, in my driveway, when this VW pulls up to the neighbor's house to visit. There are 3 adults and the front passenger (male, don't know if he was the dad) is holding the 2-3 month old baby girl. There was no carseat in the car. I was upset by this, and got the license plate number down and told my DH that I wanted to call the cops. He said to not overreact, don't upset them, we don't know the whole situation, etc, etc. Anyway, I hadn't done anything yet when the people came back to their car and piled in... baby in the front seat again.

So I ran out of my house, and said "you don't intend to leave with the baby like that?" The mom who was driving, told me some story about how they lived just a few miles away so they didn't bother. One of the males told me to mind my own business. And just then my husband comes out of the house and is telling me to come back into the house. I ignored him.

Then I said, "well, I've already called the cops- so you'd better not drive away like this." (I hadn't called the cops though) I suggested someone stay here with the baby and another person go home to get the carseat. After a minute, and after cussing me out, they did just that. So I go back inside my house and my husband is upset they might take revenge on us because of what I did. I'm upset he didn't support me and do what was right- in my opinion.

When the car came back, I didn't get to see if they did put the baby in a carseat. But I did see them flip me off and drive away. I didn't call the cops because the situation is over. I do have the license plate written down though.

I don't like the neighbors they were visiting, so I don't have any issues with offending them. I still have to talk to my DH about the problem.

Thanks all!

[Melanie]

Ahh...tricky situation. I talked to the police here, about a sort-of similiar situation and they can't do anything unless they witness the people driving with the child not properly seated. So, in other words if you would have called while they were in visiting and the police arrived, it would not have mattered, and had you called when they left, well, they could TRY to find them, but who knows?

I think what I would hope I would have had the presence of mind to do, would be to coincidentally leave when they did and call the police with their whereabouts and follow them (discreetly AND REALLY FAR BACK so if there was an accident it wasn't on my head or fender that their child got injured) until police showed up. I tend to agree with your husband about not confronting them for fear of retaliation and b/c they would know where I lived.

[pritchettzoo]

DH and I (8 mos pregnant at the time) were driving on Interstate 75 outside of Atlanta. A car almost hit us and multiple other cars weaving in and out of traffic, going at least 90 miles an hour. There were 2 small boys standing on the backseat, dancing. The back windows were all the way down, and the kids would hang out of the windows periodically. I called 911 on the cell phone to report 1) the reckless driver and 2) the children. The woman on the other end told me to mind my own business and not bother the police unless it was an emergency--she threatened to turn me in for misusing 911. I was flabbergasted. She then hung up on me before I could get her name and badge number.

I was telling one of the nurses in my ob/gyn's office about it, and she said she had a seatbelt hotline programmed into her cell phone and called it all the time. She was supposed to get it for me and call me with the number, but I never got it. I need to look into that. I see it all the time around here and it makes me terribly sad. And really angry when the parents are buckled in--they're concerned about their own lives but not their children's. Ugh.

Anna

[Melanie]

That is horrible! Maybe next time, and I know this is a pain, call 411 to get a non-emergency number for highway patrol (or sheriff or local PD depending where you are). I did that once for a ladder in the middle of the freeway taking up 2 lanes. They were very nice about it. I felt it was not an emergency to take up 911 time but very important that it is remedied before it becomes one.

[cdlamis]

In Arizona, we have a hotline to call when we see cases like this.
It's 1-800-505-BABY. For those in AZ, I remember the phone number like SOS BABY.

I called it one day to report a baby held by the mother in the front seat. I had to give the license number and where I saw the offense. I was pleased to learn that the parents/vehicle owner don't just get warned or reprimanded. They will be sent information regarding car seat safety, where they can get cheap/free car seats and a letter from a family that lost a baby in a similar situation!

Its a great program and I hope other states have similar programs.

Daniella
Mom to Julia and #2 EDD 12-30-04

[luvbeinmama]

I probably would have done the same thing you did in this situation. Shame on your DH for not backing you up!! I don't care if you are in the wrong, your DH should not do that to you in public. You were so right to confront them on this. Most accidents happen within a few miles of home. I'd have been asking them if they cared at all about the baby and that they could be charged with child endangerment. I'm appalled at these people! And when it comes to the life of a child being in danger, it IS your business!!

Urrrrggghhh!

[s7714]

I saw one of my neighbors down the street get into his car and drive off with his baby sitting in his lap (yes, in the driver's seat) just a couple days ago. I came home and called the police station to see if there was anything that could be done and as someone else posted, the response was unless they see it happening, they can't do anything about it. :(

Jennifer
Mommy to Annalia 03/03/03

[sntm]

That's what I do too. I don't think the law distinguishes between on-road and parking lot driving, though I may be mistaken. And it can still be dangerous, particularly in a car with airbags.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[luvbeinmama]

That's really wierd, extremely unprofessional, and stupid. That WAS an emergency! I know in CA, at least, 911 from a cell phone goes directly to CHP dispatch, and they would NOT have treated you that way. Other states have other ways of dialing the highway patrol or state troopers directly without going through 911. I would find out what number your state uses and use that next time instead of 911. If your state does what CA does, I don't know what to tell you, except maybe you can find out how to contact the 911 dispatch office and complain to a supervisor. Even though you don't know which dispatcher you had, it shouldn't matter. All the dispatchers should be aware of the fact that that is NOT an okay thing that happened. Kids hanging out the windows like that and reckless driving is something the police need to know about.

[californiagirl]

Reckless driving is an emergency. I've called 911 on reckless drivers before, and always been thanked -- one time I saw the highway patrol on their way to collect the driver too, and it felt great! I've also been in the car when we called in accidents, and 911 says "Thank you for calling" even when they already know about it and it's a fender-bender. We once ended up calling the cops and getting a full-scale guns-drawn road-block scene for what turned out to be a vending machine repairman (long story, involving repeated thefts and a stupid vending machine repairman with a very odd schedule) and the police made a special effort to reassure us that it was the right thing to do, and they were glad we called.

For a child not in a car seat, I might look up a non-emergency number. I used to have one programmed in to use for loose animals and the like. But for somebody also weaving through traffic? I'd call 911 straight off.

[dr mom]

In North Carolina, we have a similar program. It's called "Please Be Seated" and if you see an unrestrained child you can call the toll-free hotline at 1-800-999-9676 or fill out and mail a card.

The vehicle owner is sent a letter stressing the importance of using a carseat, as well as information on how to obtain a carseat and use it correctly. The program is educational, not punitive.

http://www.ncdot.org/secretary/GHSP/ClickIt/child/pdf/pbsflyer.pdf

-Cindy

[Rachels]

OMG. I think I'd be tempted to call the local newspaper with that lovely little tidbit. That clod needs to be taught that an unrestrained child hanging out the window of a car going 90 miles an hour does qualify as an emergency situation. Geeeeeeeeeez.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/character/2/character39.gif

"We have a secret in our culture...it's not that birth is painful, it's that women are strong!!" - Laura Stavoe Harm

[sntm]

I don't understand why nothing can be done by the police unless they witness it. If I were to witness a breaking and entering, or a domestic violence, or a rape, or a murder, they could arrest someone even though a police officer didn't witness it. Why not here?

Puzzled.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[TonFirst]

Y'all, this newspaper article form Mississippi is heartbreaking:

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040723/NEWS01/407230372/1002

The mother was just running to the store, and her two-year-old was in the back seat, buckled in (NOT in a carseat). He unbuckled himself, got himself to the front seat (!), and boom, they were hit by a trailer. The two-year-old was killed almost instantly.

And there in Jackson, some yahoo with the Department of Public Safety is saying, "We can't legislate morality...It's up to the parents to make the decisions on whether they're going to do the right thing."

No, it's up to you to make sure that parents are prosecuted when they break the law, don't restrain their child, and as a result, the child dies.

Here are some other stats from the article:

- Nationally, 459 children under 5 years old were killed in accidents in 2002, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Of those, an estimated 40 percent were unrestrained.

[Melanie]

They told me if they did not witness it and I still wanted to 'report' it I could call CPS. I was absolutely not going to be bringing them into my neighborhood.

[Melanie]

""Thank you for calling" even when they already know about it and it's a fender-bender."

Funny, I did that once and the woman was all pissy about it and said, "Well did you WITNESS it?" When I said no, she snapped at me that they already knew about it and hung up.

[deborah_r]

>And there in Jackson, some yahoo with the Department of
>Public Safety is saying, "We can't legislate morality...It's
>up to the parents to make the decisions on whether they're
>going to do the right thing."
>
>No, it's up to you to make sure that parents are prosecuted
>when they break the law, don't restrain their child, and as a
>result, the child dies.
>


I agree. Fear of punishment or even embarassment for getting caught can be a motivator in kerping people from doing these things. But if they never enforce these things, people will stop thinking of it as a law.

I've had less-than-clear moments when I would think "oh, we just have to drive across the parking lot to the other store, I'll just keep him in the sling and sit in the back" and then I would think about possibly getting caught, then realize if I could get in trouble for it, it probably was also dangerous, so better to not do it. And the speed at which I see idiots driving in parking lots around here, I'm hesitant to take him out of the seat if we are just sitting in the car waiting for DH to go into the store to get something.

[starrynight]

I have approached someone once, got majorily cussed out and haven't since. I see it all the time here :(, but I no longer have a cell phone so I can't call. Instead I just say a quick prayer they get home safe and hopefully the parents get enough sense to use a carseat next time. It's not exactly pro-active but it makes me feel better than just ranting about the stupid parents to dh.

2-3 months old??? WTH is wrong with people? I still have my 48lbs 5.5 year old in a carseat geesh.

[ethansmom]

You're smart to put him in the seat "just" in a parking lot.

I always remember what our fabulous L&D nurse told us when we were leaving the hospital (after DH spent hrs trying to get our seat checked by a CPS on a holiday weekend since DS was very early!): Never take them out of the seat when they are in the car, even if you pull over to the side of the road/highway to nurse. It's better to have them cry until you get home than take that risk. Sadly, she used to work in the ER and saw the results of nursing babies on the side of the road.

[tinkerbell1217]

I kept my DS in a booster until two years ago, he is small for his age and when I finally got him out he was 12 amd 80 pounds, but shorter than most 12 yr olds so he was still in a booster then. It helped with the seatbelt placement to have him in a booster.

[tippy]

A car almost hit us and multiple other cars weaving in and out of traffic, going at least 90 miles an hour. There were 2 small boys standing on the backseat, dancing. The back windows were all the way down, and the kids would hang out of the windows periodically.


If that's not an emergency...I don't know what is....Oh, wait,,, maybe it would be to call in an accident where two small boys were thrown to their deaths out of a moving, speeding, weaving, car. Very sad. Makes me sooo angry. I probably would have called the police when I got home and ran the senario by them to see if they consider that an emergency or not. I'm sure there is a way to track down the 911 operator (and you better believe I would have!) to complain about their handeling of your call.